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Deconverting Christians?

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Violence

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I ceased to be a Christian because I never really felt the presence of God, and I always felt that the sermons given in church sounded like fanaticism and brainwashing. It disturbed me to see an audience of people watch someone take a small passage from the bible and tell people how they should be using it to live their lives a certain way, then I would visit another church and watch another person use a different part of the same book to tell another group of people a completely different way to live their lives.

I think at that point, I had started to lose interest in organized religion.

I called myself an atheist for a while, but never really did the research to support why I didn't believe in religion or deities. It wasn't until I got into college, and heard about how people were trying to get creationism and intelligent design into the classrooms that I started to really think about my beliefs. It was my firm belief that it didn't matter what you believed in, and that your actions are what define you, not your beliefs(or lack thereof), and so I never made a big deal about it.

But when people started trying to obstruct the pursuit of knowledge by putting religion into the science classroom, I realized then that beliefs could matter quite a bit, because those in power act on their beliefs. And the people who believe that the Earth was created several thousand years ago over the course of a week by a supernatural, omnipotent being were clearly acting on their beliefs.

I think that's what I realized it wasn't really far of me to dismiss Christianity without doing some research, including: following the creationism/ID trials, learning several of the arguments/counterarguments for God's existence, and of course, reading my Bible.

I think the Bible itself was what really drove home something that I only had a suspicion of when I was just growing up in Church: the consistency of the Bible.

In the Old Testament, God is portrayed as an angry, jealous, wrathful entity who very frequently does things outside the laws of physics in order to serve his needs. He is either rewarding people, punishing them, or commanding them.

Tower of Babel, Flood, Plagues, turning a woman into salt, parting the Red Sea, sending fire from the sky to light an altar drenched completely in water, sending manna in the desert, giving a guy herculean strength as long as he kept his hair, giving him herculean strength after his hair was cut, taking the form of a burning bush, or the plumes from a volcano, having a fish(whale? large sea creature?) swallow Jonah, who stays alive for 3 days inside of it before being regurgitated, mauling boys with bears after they make fun of a prophet's baldness.

He commands that people be stoned to death, he condemns people to wandering in the desert for years for disobeying him. He turned a woman to salt for disobeying him. He floods the world because he finds the people he created repugnant. He commanded genocide, rained fire and brimstone to destroy cities, and messes with free will("the Lord hardened Pharoah's heart").



It isn't until the New Testament, when God incarnates himself in human form on Earth, that he ceases to do these things, and after that, he breaks the laws of physics, but it is always to help people, he does not punish a single person for being wicked. He is more forgiving and merciful than he was in the Old Testament, and sacrifices himself for mankind.


I think anyone reading the Bible can see that this inconsistency is odd.


It was around this time that I visited different religious groups on my campus, and asked them several basic questions. They were all very nice people, and the general response from them, regardless of religion, is that their faith comes mostly from a personal experience with their god, and they know in their hearts that their experience was genuine.


I think I can call myself fully deconverted after this experience. It was all in all pretty eye opening.
 

professor mgw

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I'm not religious, but how can you say our "creator" does nothing but destroy? Have you never seen a child born or a plant grow?

the whole concept of "faith" is to believe in something that you cannot prove or see. if everyone KNEW God was real and could hang out and talk with the guy all the time, it wouldn't be much of a test of faith for Christians, would it?
^^^^^This.

Hmm i kinda compare that type of thing to trust. When you trust someone, say for example, delivering a pizza to your friend (just an ex). You don't know for a fact that he will deliver the pizza because he can get into a situation, or decide to just not to do it , but you trust him because you have reason(s) to :). kinda the same with faith, christians are being tested of their faith. We have our reasons to belive he exist (the bible && it's words), we do not have SOILD evidence such as photos or things of that nature. That is something we just won't know (just like if the guy will get hurt), but we turust in him and therefore strengthen our faith!

@ at the post above: First, i should let you know that im one of jehovah's witnesses, so while being a branch of christanity, i DO NOT AGREE WITH THE STATMENTS SAID ABOVE. God (as we describe him) is someone who HAS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE HOW THINGS SHOULD BE RUN, HE CREATED US, KNOWS US INSIDE && OUT, AND BETTER THAN WE KNOW OURSELVES. He would be able to create a law that would sustain us in peace. He punishes because like everything else, it has a punish && reward system. All god is asking of us is to follow his commands and he will give us everlasting life after the 1000 year reign (to deep, ill skip that part). For example, god told lots wife to NOT look back at the city, her looking back meant she would miss the sin && material they left behind alot. She went ahead && looked back = punishment. Also, according to the bible, JESUS, WHO IS GOD'S SON (not god himself) went to the earth to preach about his father.
 

BSP

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I think the only reason I followed the religion was that I was raised into it and that I was scared into the concept of Hell.
One of my friends brought that up to me one day, and it only increased my questioning :(
 

5ive

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You are CONVERTING to atheism from theism. Moving from one ideology, belief, whatever, is still converting. Deconverting isn't a real word.
No. You're moving from a belief to a lackthereof belief. How many times do I have to say this. Read the write up I wrote.

Imbecile.
 

Dre89

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I deconverted myself.

That's the point of blind, or fidiestic faith: belief without proof.

Also, humans will corrupt any message regardless how pure.
Fixed that for you.

But according to you, all faith is totally blind. That's not true, I can have faith that my hypothetical partner won't cheat on me, but I have faith in her because given her personality and ideals, it is reasonable to conclude she's not the type of person to cheat on me, or that it is highly improbable that she would.

According to you, it's just as reasonable to believe that a girl like her will cheat on me, as to believe that a girl who has cheated on her last seven partners will. Obviously I have more reason to believe that the former will unlikely cheat on me. That is reasonable faith.

Because you were attacking religion, I might as well point out that not all religions rely on blind faith. Saying that they do just displays an ignorance of certain theologies.
 

Fly_Amanita

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I wouldn't describe the belief that your hypothetical partner won't cheat on you as faith since you have reasons for believing that, namely the ones you listed. Then again, I think of faith as a belief that is held that without any justification, and I'm guessing CK is also using that definition, which I think is different than whatever definition you're currently going with.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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Faith is a relative term. For some people, learning about Mendelian Genetics from a textbook about simple allelic trait inheritance is enough proof to convince them that a macroscopic application of genetics i.e. evolution is acceptable. Certain individuals want further textual details (a biochemical pathway approach) on how allelic inheritance translates into physical (phenotypic) characteristics from its origin as nucleosomes / chromosomes. Others find faith in science through replicating experimental lab work and observing the process themselves.

A system of faith exists in the scientific sense, as it does in the religious sense. Religious believers often treat their lives as experimental subjects from which they gain affirmation in their beliefs. The criteria for evaluation may not be necessarily similar to an evolutionary biologist, but this does not necessitate that they are wrong. As with all things, all hypothesis remain speculative. After all, many scientific theories compete with one another regarding the beginning of the Earth and scientists have not been able to come together and formulate a definitive conclusion.

Returning to the topic of faith, many published papers are contingent upon the comprehensive beliefs of fifty+ papers that the researcher has utilized on some degree of trust to form the basis of their own experiment. That paper may perpetuate further papers to continue for years to come, made possible by a foundational level of integrity and faith in the academic community.
 

Luigitoilet

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#HBC | Acrostic

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The made up term really set the tone of the thread. By phrasing it as "deconvert" the posts of the thread simplified into, "I'm no longer x." If the phrase happened to be convert, then the posts might be, "I'm no longer x, therefore I'm y."
 

Jonkku

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No. You're moving from a belief to a lackthereof belief. How many times do I have to say this. Read the write up I wrote.
There can't be a lack of belief.
You have to believe in something.

In this case,
You either believe god(s) exist, or that they don't.

And if you don't get it: "I don't believe X..." = "I believe X is not...", therefore a belief.
 

ballin4life

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That's not necessarily true at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_logic

In other words, you may be unsure. For a super simple example, take a coin flip. You might say "I believe that it will come up heads" while I say "Well, I don't believe that it will come up heads for sure, but it's possible. I'm not sure." I don't have the belief that it will come up heads, but I also don't have the opposite belief.

I do think the whole deconversion vs conversion thing is just semantics.
 

Shadic

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How about the original poster decided that instead of leaving his world view entirely up to faith, he decided to look into things in a more logical, relatively observable phenomenon?
And if you don't get it: "I don't believe X..." = "I believe X is not...", therefore a belief.
You don't believe against something's existence. Belief is defined in the positive sense, not the negative.

I'm having trouble recognizing "belief" as a word right now, due to seeing it too many times.
 

5ive

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There can't be a lack of belief.
You have to believe in something.

In this case,
You either believe god(s) exist, or that they don't.

And if you don't get it: "I don't believe X..." = "I believe X is not...", therefore a belief.
No. Just No.
 

Peeze

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Either way your wrong 5ive because you claimed atheism is the default view. Which would mean he was REconverting, not deconverting. So fails all around.
 

NovaSmash

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I'm a christian and I dont go around trying to convert everyone, its a person own choice to believe or not. Personally I don't have to see God to believe in him, I've felt his presence before. You don't have to try to deconvert anyone. Since I began playng smash i've found that most people in the community are atheist, I find that interesting. Also, this thread is kinda ********.
 

Dre89

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That's one notion of perfection.

There'd be plenty, it'd be a debate in itself really.
 

Luigitoilet

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By that logic, God has never done anything to detriment "others"? There are a trillion+ people who suffered horrible malnourished lives and endless torture and pain who might disagree with that.
 

Shadic

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By that logic, God has never done anything to detriment "others"? There are a trillion+ people who suffered horrible malnourished lives and endless torture and pain who might disagree with that.
"God works in mysterious ways."
I believe that is their excuse for why terrible things happen to good people.
 

Dre89

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The idea of God's perfection is far more complex than that though.

And as for evil in the world, they don't just fall back on Him working in mysterious ways, there's a few different arguments out there.
 

5ive

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The idea of God's perfection is far more complex than that though.

And as for evil in the world, they don't just fall back on Him working in mysterious ways, there's a few different arguments out there.
Most, just horrible.

No, just no.
 

rhan

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This belongs in the debate hall.

But since you're not a debater.

You should have just made this a blog.

Edit: I should be a mod..

I also didn't realise this made 60 something pages..
 

Mic_128

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Smashboards, MLG and all Moderators thereof are not responsible for any harm or injuries from you taking LT's post literally and the act of you having stopped doing everything causing dehydration, starvation or suffocation.
 
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