Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[fontisian]

I was yeeted because Wam and Bessie did not like my D1. They both stated this multiple times, both before and after the yeet. I was ignored because Bessie does not follow my reads, and that has been the case long before this game. I think Bessie also took my points personally, when they were meant to show her how this would likely happen. Blame was not part of it.

My mistake was not yeeting Laser d2, but my credibility had nothing to do with this outcome. Wam's mistake was tunneling on me and Eido, blocking the push on Laser d2 and not voting Laser d3. Imo, he should have realized that in an endgame with either Bessie or Swiss, I would have been easier to yeet over him than Laser. (That was also a good reason to townread Wam). Bessie's mistake was tunneling me and Eido, and then assuming that Laser and her were being read for the same things. (They weren't. Bessie cared about what she was pushing, and thus was a universal townread. Laser did not.)

Swiss played perfectly and has never made a mistake in his life.

If we were to assign blame, since Bessie brought it up, I would distribute it equally amongst the three of us.

I don't think Laser played that well, but rather benefited from town eating itself. His kill choices were solid, though I think shooting Swiss before Maven might have been beneficial.

 

[Xivii]

I often put a lot of trust in these sort of live reads because they tend to be more reliable than my really detailed cases (see, end of Wam's game with Swiss, for example).

how dare you

 

[Xivii]

I was yeeted because Wam and Bessie did not like my D1. They both stated this multiple times, both before and after the yeet. I was ignored because Bessie does not follow my reads, and that has been the case long before this game. I think Bessie also took my points personally, when they were meant to show her how this would likely happen. Blame was not part of it.

My mistake was not yeeting Laser d2, but my credibility had nothing to do with this outcome. Wam's mistake was tunneling on me and Eido, blocking the push on Laser d2 and not voting Laser d3. Imo, he should have realized that in an endgame with either Bessie or Swiss, I would have been easier to yeet over him than Laser. (That was also a good reason to townread Wam). Bessie's mistake was tunneling me and Eido, and then assuming that Laser and her were being read for the same things. (They weren't. Bessie cared about what she was pushing, and thus was a universal townread. Laser did not.)

I'm only referring to the mechanism behind why you weren't listened to, as you put it, from a game/social theory perspective. You went in too hard too early. None of the actual players matter in terms of why this occurred, it's simply the nature of social dynamics.

It's a matter of when and where to invest your capital. Make an open and shut case D2 that turns out to be wrong, it's unlikely people will follow your open and shut case the next Day. It requires reestablishing credibility, but since you were killed the next day, there was no time to do so.

This is something that happens to me often. For some reason, my day 2 hit rate is absurdly low. And if I push too hard day 2 and end up wrong (which is likely), I'm not going to have as much credit Day 3 and so have to take a more sidelined role while it recharges.

 

[fontisian]

I'm only referring to the mechanism behind why you weren't listened to, as you put it, from a game/social theory perspective. You went in too hard too early. None of the actual players matter in terms of why this occurred, it's simply the nature of social dynamics.

It's a matter of when and where to invest your capital. Make an open and shut case D2 that turns out to be wrong, it's unlikely people will follow your open and shut case the next Day. It requires reestablishing credibility, but since you were killed the next day, there was no time to do so.

This is something that happens to me often. For some reason, my day 2 hit rate is absurdly low. And if I push too hard day 2 and end up wrong (which is likely), I'm not going to have as much credit Day 3 and so have to take a more sidelined role while it recharges.

Xivii, I'm telling you, I played the game, and that's not what happened. Your advice is generally good, but it would not have helped here in any way. It likely would have resulted in me being yeeted d2 instead of d3, actually. And I know that my push on Eido did not wreck my credibility, because Wam still sited my read on Laser at the beginning of d4.

 

[Sabrar]

Congrats to scum!

This was frustrating to watch. I submitted my choice of tracking LaserGuy an hour after somi's flip and then never bothered to do any re-read for the remaining 47 hours because I knew he was going to kill me.

I really miss the Gojoe thread.

Agreed, that was sooo much fun plus an outlet for all of our frustrations/etc.

Sabrar you already know where I will end up don't you, even if I don't know it yet?

I was fairly certain of it, yeah. Especially since you didn't do NK-analysis which I feel could have pointed you in the right direction.

 

[Xivii]

Scum chat invite? Also I recommend inviting ranmaru or Pokechu to the spec chat so they can invite the remaining players when it reaches its limit.

Laser, this is a kind request that you extract your head from your ass and look over Eido again.

Also LaserGuy , this is an example of what I was speaking of regarding 1-on-1.

Edit: Oh wait, does Ran not have premium anymore?

 

[bessie]

I was fairly certain of it, yeah. Especially since you didn't do NK-analysis which I feel could have pointed you in the right direction.

I never do NK analysis. I do airtight cases. Like my case on you.

 

[Sabrar]

That was fun to read.

 

[Maven89]

Someone said 30% of being town is proving you’re town. Mathematically, I was 30% the best town player in this game.

Maven MVP

 

[Sabrar]

I seriously lack that 30% when I'm an easily confirmable PR, leading to reduced activity, leading to being killed by LaserGuy...

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy I really hate that you make this post as scum. There's no way I'm ever going to be able to read you properly. And this is why Apex happens...

I really just wanted to convince fonti I was Town and felt that brazenly tunneling her was the only thing that she wouldn't see through immediately.

I don't think Laser played that well, but rather benefited from town eating itself. His kill choices were solid, though I think shooting Swiss before Maven might have been beneficial.

I'm not a power wolf, never have been. I played the game how I felt I could win.

I did consider shooting Swiss before Maven but ultimately decided that kill would be too provocative at that time.

This was frustrating to watch. I submitted my choice of tracking LaserGuy an hour after somi's flip and then never bothered to do any re-read for the remaining 47 hours because I knew he was going to kill me.

Sorry. I do have a habit of NKing you N1 don't I? But yeah, I was pretty sure you were a PR from the middle of D1.

Scum chat invite? Also I recommend inviting ranmaru ranmaru or Pokechu Pokechu to the spec chat so they can invite the remaining players when it reaches its limit.

Don't know why you would be interested in that. Nope. Really nothing to see there at all.

 

[Swiss]

Watching this day phase evolve.

 

[Swiss]

I think this was a great game and was very close. Losing your buddy D1 and still winning is huge.

Font FWIW I think Xivii is right.

I submitted Vig kills on Laser every night yet this USELESS MOD didn't even let one of them through.

Shout outs soon

 

[Swiss]

Bessie - I think you wanted to townread Laser because you felt that people sussed him for his style which is similar to yours.

But then why did no one sus you!?

 

[Wam]

bessie

I didn't say it in endgame as its wine but if I was scum you would not have made it to day 4.

Well played laser that was close at the end there.

 

[Eido]

Damn, GG to the killers. You sent the town packing.

How I imagine Somi's face right now, watching all this unfold:

 

[Eido]

Sorry. I do have a habit of NKing you N1 don't I? But yeah, I was pretty sure you were a PR from the middle of D1.

It's interesting to read this insight. The night kills are what initially lead me to suspecting you. Did you have any other players in mind for the kill?

Also good job again. Was great watching you play.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Laser how ****ing dare you nk me n1 my playstyle was built to endure till at least like n2.

imo saying that eido could’ve made that nk could've hurt your credibility to me too fonti. However, in spite of me having been informed, I don’t think it would’ve cuz

@everyone

i look at fonti’s plays she made and thought to myself “how can someone that’s clearly good make such awful in thread scum plays with the way she stuck her neck out in such dumb crucial moments.” Is that wifom? Maybe, but it’s the type of **** that should make you wonder whether or not your thoughts about scum motivation are biased. Not to place myself on a pedestal but that led me to a solid town read on fonti and Swiss when I did.

wam, I do like your style/game sense when it comes to making reads, but you make it really tough to honestly townread you imo, which I think matters to a degree. You don’t have to make yourself obvtown early on but I feel like I’d have a tough time ever letting myself townread you.

laser picked off town perfectly imo. Great play from him

further shoutouts later

 

[bessie]

I seriously lack that 30% when I'm an easily confirmable PR, leading to reduced activity, leading to being killed by LaserGuy...

Did you leave a breadcrumb? I searched hard and didn't find one, but I rarely do.

 

[somitomi]

Good game all! Wow, that was a nailbiter.

It sure was, but you pulled it off, man. Sorry I left you alone so soon.

Damn, GG to the killers. You sent the town packing.

How I imagine Somi's face right now, watching all this unfold:

View attachment 314407

This seems to imply some kind of mastermindery on my part that absolutely wasn't there. I did get some chuckles out of the connections people made between me and people other than LaserGuy, particularly the bessie shroop (which is absolutely non-indicative, I often write posts non-sequentially because I have the attention span of a... look, a penny!). This was largely due to my game turning into this:

 

[#HBC | marshy]

gg all, only skimmed here and there but it seemed like an intense game

 

[Sabrar]

Did you leave a breadcrumb? I searched hard and didn't find one, but I rarely do.

There was a game on this site where I asked the mod whether coded breadcrumbs are allowed and they didn't allow it. So I'm not bothering with them anymore.
Though I made a horrible slip with #505 (I of course knew that Eido couldn't have slipped being a PR but I failed to consider what a VT could see). Luckily it didn't matter because LaserGuy already picked up on my reduced activity which was a sure indicator that I'm not VT.

 

[bessie]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame can you please add me, Laser, and Wam to spectator chat?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Spec chat is at participant capacity I guess, did not know there was a limit like that. I invited pokechu presuming that his moderator powers can circumvent that. I asked him to invite you three. Anyone else wishing to be added to spec chat should go thru him!

Mafia chat still has slots so it'll be first come first serve for invites to that and I can get pokechu involved if more are interested, just let me know if you want a scum chat invite as Laserguy and somi both consented to opening it up.

Once I actually have some time to sit down and write real comments up I will!

 

[Sabrar]

I'm interested in reading scum chat.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I’d like to see scum chat too

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Added you both, 4 slots left before I would need someone who is not a mere peasant like me to start inviting

 

[bessie]

Frozen please add me, I think Zen has requested to be added too, thanks!

 

[Eido]

If there's space, I'd be interested in the mafia chat.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

added xivii bessie and zen, 1 slot left before I have to go thru pokechu

 

[Swiss]

Meeeeeeeee

 

[bessie]

Bessie - I think you wanted to townread Laser because you felt that people sussed him for his style which is similar to yours.

But then why did no one sus you!?

Swiss I think it is not so much that I wanted to townread Laser for having a similar style to me, it's more that I felt we were being attacked for a similar NAI reason, which caused me to align myself with Laser in my mind. I’m referring to posts like #857.

Will Bessie or Laser finally add something to the game, or continue to lurk?

For why see my #1222.

Fonti claims her case on LaserGuy is based on him not progressing the game and has nothing to do with content volume. But that’s not entirely true. It’s the same thing I have to keep defending myself from, in like every game. I think that LaserGuy and I have a different style from what others on this forum are used to and we are being judged against a standard that we shouldn’t have to conform to. I am trying to keep my feelings on this separate from my read of LaserGuy, but because I have to defend myself continuously from the same accusations it is making me lump myself and LaserGuy together in my mind.

For why I'm not usually not sus, meta. When I’m town my super-townie-meta takes over and I’m unyeetable. Think: Ranmaru.
This…is mostly joking but kinda serious. I went years on xkcd without drawing scum, and was always auto read as the towniest player in the game and ended up on the top of town-scum lists when all I had done was confirm. Others can confirm I had been quite aggressive in the past over being auto town read.

Related humorous reference in this post .

Shout outs in-work.

 

[ranmaru]

I thought it was Bessie since D1 until she didn't hammer.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I thought it was Bessie since D1 until she didn't hammer.

Some things never change

 

[bessie]

Thank you all for playing! Congratulations to somitomi and LaserGuy on a spectacular win, and to everyone for playing so well, this was definitely one of the toughest games I have played in a long time, due to the high caliber of the players.

Individual shout outs!

somitomi Great game, too bad you didn’t have more time for this. Like usual your abilities were completely underestimated as a player, and you managed not to leave any definitive connections to LaserGuy that mere mortals could detect (except for Swiss but he’s obviously a mafia god). Thanks for your continued dedication to the game.

#HBC | Gorf You played a great D1 I regret not having more opportunity to interact with you; D1 was great fun. I look forward to playing with you and Alfredo again soon.

Sabrar Too bad you drew a power role, you are somewhat transparent when you’re not VT. Haha I knew you knew I was going to vote for Wam. You’re still my puppy soulmate, best mafia bud ever, and one of the reasons I still play this game.

Eido You played very well, I think a lot of why I suspected you was your style in this game aligned so closely with the power wolfing article. Don’t worry about trying to solve players based on meta, you’re instincts are good enough that you can solve players using your own mind and content from the game you are playing. A few more games and you'll be a top player.

Maven89 Unfortunate that you had some RL constraints; you posted excellent content there was just so little of it. Maven MVP forever.

fontisian Our leader, the player that kept the game moving forward. I'm sorry that we couldn't work together more closely, our styles are so drastically different that we clash for now, but I feel that as we play together more we will work it out and together will become an unbeatable mafia powerhouse. Thanks for playing and for your dedication to helping new players and to the game.

Swiss If fonti was our leader, you were our mastermind. You played an excellent game, all your reads were correct. I am sorry that I didn't deliver for you in the end, perhaps next time. Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.

Wam You were brilliant right up to the end! There was absolutely nothing wrong with anything you posted on D4 and you made no errors; it's just unfortunate that neither did LaserGuy.

LaserGuy Really outstanding game; you were brilliant picking out the Sabrar’s power role, and in your selection of NKs and in the players you chose to be in the final three. After a turbulent past you and I finally have hit our stride and work together well; unfortunately we were not actually on the same team.


And the most important shout out -

#HBC | FrozeηFlame Thank you very much for running this game I enjoyed it immensely. The modding was excellent (except for not processing my and Swiss’s night actions, what’s up with that??). The game pace and content level were right within my comfort levels, and I appreciate the flexibility with regards to the D4 extensions. I would sign up for any future game you decide to mod, but I am also looking forward to playing with you again too.

 

[LaserGuy]

Shout outs

somitomi: Sorry I wasn't able to keep you alive in D1. I thought your content this game was pretty good and I don't feel that there was anything in your D1 that really ought to have yeeted you, just didn't have enough and we unlucky that the only other low activity player happened to be a PR. In a lot of other cases I think you would have got by at least for another day.

Gorf: I think you did a really nice job both of effortlessly deflecting my early attacks on you and effectively sorting Eido in a way that made you both look very townie.

Sabrar: I really would like to play a longer game with you again sometime, but you keep getting shot all the time.

Eido: You played a really strong game, especially in D2 (despite being yeeted). You did a lot of really good analysis and came to the right conclusions.

Maven: You have really good instincts and even with fairly minimal interaction with the thread due to IRL issues, still manage to produce some incredibly sharp and accurate reads.

fonti: You have no idea how stressful it is to play against you as mafia. You are so thorough and you think so deeply about every aspect of the game and can so effortlessly control the narrative it's very difficult to work around you. I really hope we do get to play as Town (or scum) sometime where we can really work together.

Swiss: You played pretty much flawlessly this game. Your reads very disturbingly accurate and you put in a really solid effort to try to swing things against me. Sorry none of your vig kills went through.

Wam: I really liked your play this game. You were very relaxed and thoughtful and you came across very townie for pretty much the entire game. I really struggled in D4 to come up with solid points on which to build a decent case against you, your play was just too clean. I think if you keep playing the way do did this game you could easily shed the "scummy Town" meta forever.

bessie: I think you did a really great job in a difficult LYLO. You were very thorough and thoughtful in your analysis and I genuinely had no idea which way you were going to land until the very end. You also played such a solid townie game that I had to give up any hope of ever getting you yeeted pretty early on in my planning.

FrozenFlame: Thanks for hosting!

 

[Swiss]

9.) Somitomi
I mean getting lynched D1 isn't ideal, but I love your attitude to the game. Your 'my work here is done' pic had me laughing IRL.

4.) Sabrar
I've heard good things, but since you always take the cowards path and lay over and die (just doc yourself???) I'll never see your real skill

10.) Gorf -
Guts me that you died (and Sabrar) because all three of us saw the flip, read and were -OH IT'S LASER, then both you died.

8.) Eido
Love the brain, super bizarre writing style which I like.

6.) Maven89
I kick myself for not backing off when I saw you had a PR. MVP.

7.) Fontisian
That Eido case was a real swing and a miss, I've fallen foul of the same in the past because people just will not look past it. Very much looking forward to our next game.

1.) Swiss
Intense, powerful and energising - and that's just my coffee. I should have swung a Laser lynch, need to build my cred with this new generation. You are all insects beneath my boot. Sorry guys that just slipped out.

5.) Wam
I thought you played great, but in LyLo you weren't very convincing (super easy for that to happen), you could have at least quoted my posts though!

3.) Bessie
Great play. I mean obviously totally wrong in the last 3 but you took your own reads and stuck with them which always commands respect.

Survivors:

2.) Laserguy - Mafia Rolecop
Played a perfect game. Really impressed with you, especially with the scum chat where we see your though process evolve. It doesn't matter how scummy you look if you don't get lynched. NKs were on point.

 

[Xivii]

Intense, powerful and energising - and that's just my coffee. I should have swung a Laser lynch, need to build my cred with this new generation. You are all insects beneath my boot. Sorry guys that just slipped out.

Real talk, you have been on fire

 

[Swiss]

Real talk, you have been on fire

Lol ty

Taking a lot of willpower to not blow my ego back to 2008/2011 proportions.

 

[Swiss]

bessie

Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit.