Decisive Games NewD3 Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Wam]

Its wine but I had in the back of my head that the only way swiss made it to day 4 was by being mafia.

I need to take a step back and re read as I was so convinced font was going to flip scum.

LaserGuy why shouldn't I listen to two experienced town players who were convinced it was you?

 

[Wam]

Also just realised deadline is quite short with only 3 of us left. As well were in opposite timezones!

 

[LaserGuy]

I have been townreading both of you for most of the game, so I will need to spend some time reviewing. I'll try to have as much as I can ready for when bessie comes online tonight.

LaserGuy why shouldn't I listen to two experienced town players who were convinced it was you?

Just because they're experienced doesn't mean that they are correct. fonti was wrong about Eido and about Swiss, and misread you and I both in the last game. As I mentioned to her at the end of D3, I feel that we have conflicting styles that has lead us to scumread each other frequently regardless of alignment. I've only the one previous game with Swiss, but likewise in your game we both spent much of the time scumreading each other and both turned out Town. I'm not saying that they don't have some valid points to make about my play this game, but that they're reading scum motivation into things that aren't.

#HBC | FrozeηFlame Would it be possible to extend the deadline at least a couple more hours? bessie normally doesn't get online until 9-10pm Pacific time, which means she basically only has one evening to look at the game.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

LaserGuy bessie Wam

I will allow for extensions in 24 hour increments with the unanimous consent of the players. If you wish for the deadline to be extended for 24 hours, please post in bold Request Extension. If all living players do so before the deadline expires, the deadline will be extended for 24 hours. You can repeat this process 3 times maximum.

 

[Wam]

I dont want to be awkward but 12 hours would be much better for me. But if its 24 or nothing

Request extension

 

[LaserGuy]

Request extension

 

[LaserGuy]

bessie Day1:

#102 - Like the enthusiasm. Early pressure on Eido out of the gate seems fine. bessie often gives newbie weirdness a hard time. I feel like this is more likely to come from Town bessie.

I get townie vibes from somitomi’s style. +1

But not his content. -1

bessie Can you talk a bit more about these observations? What in somi's style struck you as townie here? What struck you as scummy about his content? I don't recall you awarding any additional points for style to anyone else, but I see if this comes up in my reread.

Also, kind of randomly, is there any particular reason that neither Wam nor I didn't end up with a lot of points?

Also the team is Somi/Bessie and Somi made a shroop, you heard it here first, folks.

bessie Did you understand what fonti was referring to when she said this? Any reason you didn't follow up on it?


I've been thinking about somi's reaction to this same post (#277). I think bessie's lack of reaction here is probably more likely to come from Town. Scum is, I think more likely to respond to this sort of thing, even if it's just in jest like somi did. I'm remembering the incident in Meta Mafia (bessie hosting) where Heury (freezeblade? freezeblade as heury?) called out the entire scumteam in some arbitrary grouping he had made (I want to say Team Orange, but maybe the orange was a different reference?) and it made a bit of a stir, whereas everyone else just kind of didn't notice how they had been paired.

Wam doesn't respond to this either, IIRC.

Noting somi's reads:

Well, I had less time for this game over the weekend than anticipated, so here are some weakly ordered impressions:

YEAH
Maven - didn't post much, but us lurkers have to stick together.

Sabrar - has been asking pertinent questions, although he seems to have taken the backseat this game a little.

Fontisian - like how they've been trying to help sort the Gorf v. Eido debate out. The absolute confidence they show rubs me up the wrong way, but I couldn't read Xivii at all because of this.

LaserGuy - seems to engage with everyone and think about the responses.

Bessie - feels like her town self, although I think some of her points on Eido are nitpicky even for a bessie tunnel.

Eido - I get like 90% newbie town vibes here, they've been fairly open about their opinions and don't seem to be afraid from drawing attention. Dismissing the possibility of a quickhammer is weird coming from a fairly new player though.

Wam - feels kinda scummy like they always do, so I'm bumping to neutral. I'm not a fan of the "scum are probably lurking" take, but that's kinda personal.

Gorf - has been focusing on Eido and saying very little about anyone else, which just feels off to me. On the other hand, that'd be kind of risky for mafia to do

Swiss - spent most of his time on Eido as well, and the non-committal reads list at the end of #207 pings me a little.

BOO

Gut is that bessie read here feels the most natural of the three of us, like he's actually been thinking about her. His evaluation of Wam reads weirder to me. I could probably make a case for any of us being buddies off of this.

bessie reads (302):

bessie

Interesting choice of gambit this game, she decided to adopt one of Zen’s alt metas, and is not doing a very good job of it. The only part of Hari’s meta she adopted is the points system because she is unable to do the kind of detailed behavior analysis that Hari did, and point system isn’t really working out either, because she hasn’t adopted it thoroughly and (1) is not assigning as many positive points, and (2) is using whole numbers, and these two items are skewing the numbers. But the gambit has produced results and provoked some interesting reactions from players (compare to bessie’s mini gambit last game which went pretty much unnoticed).

This comes across as Town bessie to me. I think scum would be more self-conscious about explaining themself in this manner.

Eido

bessie gives a strong, well thought out progression on Eido.

fontisian

I feel like bessie and I had very similar thoughts on fonti here and I started scumreading her around the same time.

Maven89

I’m going to stick my neck out here and give Maven’s lurking a D1 pass for RL issues. I like what I have seen of Maven, his opening posts on D2 are sparse but he gives opinions with reasons. I would like to see his follow up to #202 and his answer ot the questions asked by Sabrar in #204 . If Maven posts tonight I will revise this read tomorrow.

I think bessie giving Maven a pass here is more likely townie. With somi being close to the chopping block on activity, Maven was a natural option.

Sabrar

But I think he’s town; I have my reasons which I’m not explaining today. And I’m not wasting my time analyzing a town read.

I'm noting this as bessie possibly picking up that Sabrar is PR, but, hmm... based on my recollection of the EoD, I don't think this is correct.

somitomi

I get the feeling somitomi is lurking because he is busy, not necessarily because he is mafia. What little content he has posted gives me a townie vibe, but the content in itself doesn’t. Pre post edit, he posted his reads list as I was working on this. I feel that scum!somi would have found a reason to scum read Maven; also he put two generally town-read players at the top of his scum list when he could have gone for Wam. Moving somi to my don’t want to yeet today list.

I had similar feelings about somi around this point in time.

I think that using meta to read somitomi isn’t going to work. His content is pretty consistent as any alignment. And by that I mean he can be townie and/or scummy as either alignment, and it’s not something he is trying to do, he just is, if you can understand what I’m trying to explain. +0

I can almost see this as a buddy read, but I don't think it is. I think bessie would have tried to explain this better.

Interesting. I would have thought that you would have known what I would see in that post.

I feel like bessie probably knew that Sabrar was a PR at this point actually.

Crap.

I'm kind of in the same boat though, Swiss's return is giving me mixed signals. His tone feels genuine, but gettin Maven to claim while thinking he could be a PR is kind of scummy. I know it's pretty late for this, but I do think we should be considering how much information the flip gives town, this is why I was against pushing Maven off today.

This post is so weird. Who is this replying to? I think maybe Wam's #516 about swinging the vote? That's all I can figure.

I'm here if you need more votes not sure we have the time and the resources though.

Above looks like scum trying to distance from a town elimination.

End of Day 1

 

[LaserGuy]

Re shroop. I never heard this term. I looked it up and Urban Dictionary says “to act or pretend you are hitting a dog” so I just thought it meant somitomi was swatting me on the nose. Woof.

Haha, I had forgotten this comment. I can 100% believe this is what bessie thought it meant and why she wouldn't follow up on it.

#672, #697, etc. - I don't recall bessie ever being this aggressive with a scumread while playing as mafia. This is one of the things that I look more in my "bessie enthusaism" meta read. bessie's push on fonti/Eido feels very natural here.

Noting this on bessie interpreting Sabrar's comments about EoD saying we're in setup B1/B2:

I wasn’t able to find anything, but I’m notoriously bad at finding breadcrumbs, even when I’m looking for them. However, I might return to this later.

This is interesting because my impression of #515 was that bessie was thinking about this already.

Wam you should have held this a little while longer to see if anyone followed up.

This comment pings Town.

I should be annoyed with the two of you. I am totally capable playing amazingly as any alignment.

So does this.

I don’t know, because I’m not even sure why it would have been optimal for somitomi to claim a power role. If he claims a power role, there will be a counterclaim and so scum advantage there, but also a 100% chance that somi will be yeeted D1 or D2. If somitomi claims vanilla town, he can’t be counterclaimed. No gain but lower risk. No yeet is a guarantee until the hammer; Swiss could have happened.

I'm going to give a scum point to bessie for this one as somi did in fact claim VT, whereas I feel like scum!Wam might have been more inclined to go for the PR claim.

Re the underlined, how are you judging how players are progressing the game? In your original post #1040 , you said the game was slow, which implies you were at least considering post quantity in your assessment of how invested players are. Now you’re pivoting, saying that it’s not post quantity, but a judgement on the content itself.

And I think it is not accurate to say that LaserGuy has done nothing that matters in a positive way in the last three days. Perhaps it seems that way because from your point of view, he has spent three days building a case on you. What if he had spent three days building a case on Wam? Would you think differently if his Wam read in #1024 had been scum leaning?

I don't think bessie hard defends me like this on D3 is she's mafia and thinks she may need to yeet me today.

Swiss, I really believe fonti is mafia. The only reason I can see myself voting for LaserGuy today is because if fonti is town I wouldn't want to have to choose between LaserGuy and Wam, since they're both about equal in my mind.

This sentiment also feels townie.

I can’t get past my D1 scum read of fonti. I am trying to look at it as perhaps just a clash of styles, but there’s so much that reads scum to me.

fonti, if you’re town I’m sorry, you can take some consolation in knowing that I realize I suck. I keep playing mafia because I like it, not because I have any illusions that I’m some sort of mafia god.

Swiss get some sleep. If there is a D4, and if I am alive tomorrow and you are not, your reads will be primary in my mind.


Vote: fonti

So does this.

 

[bessie]

Request extension

I think we should try to wrap this up in one extension if we can.

Wam I'll try to check the thread at 7:00 am PDT for the next two days if there's anything you want to discuss.

 

[bessie]

bessie Can you talk a bit more about these observations? What in somi's style struck you as townie here? What struck you as scummy about his content? I don't recall you awarding any additional points for style to anyone else, but I see if this comes up in my reread.

Also, kind of randomly, is there any particular reason that neither Wam nor I didn't end up with a lot of points?

somitomi has a laid-back chill style that is towniescummy and I feel he is very consistent in this and it should be NAI, but he often gets town read for it. However, somitomi’s #192 had some scummy elements. He was completely wrong in that I am somewhat known for latching on to someone on the first page and tunneling them to oblivion. Also, as pointed out, I’ve always hated unprovoked D1 town claims I think it is suspicious. These are both known meta there’s no way his memory is that bad.

I have never been very good or very excited about town hunting. Neither you nor Wam pinged me enough to earn a lot of minus points, and I just didn’t have enough dedication to go through and award a lot of plus points. All my enthusiasm comes from scum hunting.

bessie Did you understand what fonti was referring to when she said this? Any reason you didn't follow up on it?

I've been thinking about somi's reaction to this same post (#277). I think bessie's lack of reaction here is probably more likely to come from Town. Scum is, I think more likely to respond to this sort of thing, even if it's just in jest like somi did. I'm remembering the incident in Meta Mafia (bessie hosting) where Heury (freezeblade? freezeblade as heury?) called out the entire scumteam in some arbitrary grouping he had made (I want to say Team Orange, but maybe the orange was a different reference?) and it made a bit of a stir, whereas everyone else just kind of didn't notice how they had been paired.

freezeblade was playing as Snark, this was one of the gambits Snark used to do, he put everyone into groupings and analyzed them as teams or something. Yes it was Team Orange and I laughed my ass off over your response and used you hating orange in my flavor posts for the rest of the game. And sigh I can never mod another game because I can never top myself on the Meta Mafia II flavor. I have most of the game I can post it if there is interest.

I'm noting this as bessie possibly picking up that Sabrar is PR, but, hmm... based on my recollection of the EoD, I don't think this is correct.

This is referring to my super secret meta tell for Sabrar. Which after this post I can never use again. If Sabrar posts before 7:00 am he’s town. Refer to these two posts in this game:

Interesting, not the content I would have expected from your opening, but it is right on schedule. +1

You're posting early. +1

I know for certain I told this to Zen in Things I Like hydra chat but I’m not sure I said it in thread and I’m too overloaded to search that monster. I’ve been using this as a meta tell since xkcd when I noticed Sabrar didn’t post as much early morning as scum. But going forward now he will.

I had similar feelings about somi around this point in time.

Hmmm. All right. I was giving somitomi a slight lurker pass because I knew he just got a new job and was very busy. I didn’t bring it up in game because I figured it wasn’t really my business to do so. But I knew about it so it did affect my perception.

I feel like bessie probably knew that Sabrar was a PR at this point actually.

I didn’t but I feel I should have; read my analysis of this very point in #698 .

#672, #697, etc. - I don't recall bessie ever being this aggressive with a scumread while playing as mafia. This is one of the things that I look more in my "bessie enthusaism" meta read. bessie's push on fonti/Eido feels very natural here.

Oh gosh maybe the game Wam hosted that had like three scum teams and an indie? I was mafia but so was half the player base.

This is interesting because my impression of #515 was that bessie was thinking about this already.

Oh. I was already working on my “Sabrar is Scum” post at the same time as that one. So I was looking for Sabrar’s breadcrumb which I didn’t find, and I was already planning to return to this in the Sabrar scum post, which I did.

I'm going to give a scum point to bessie for this one as somi did in fact claim VT, whereas I feel like scum!Wam might have been more inclined to go for the PR claim.

I want to say we had a similar discussion in Newbie New Year, when flicky has to claim or be lynched. And he said something like “a PR claim is the only thing that’s going to get me out of this isn’t it” and was told yes, but he still claimed vanilla town, for which Sabrar immediately town read him. Anyway I still don’t see the advantage of claiming a power role in this situation. And I’m not sure scum!Wam would have claimed a PR in this situation, there’s just wasn’t enough time to make this work unless you knew the PR was online, and that the PR would counterclaim. I guess otherwise it might have saved somi from the yeet but only for one day, he would be policy yeeted with the counterclaim on D2 and they would have missed the opportunity to kill the PR N1.

This sentiment also feels townie.

Yeah in retrospect rather prophetic of me wasn't it?


I really miss having nestled quotes.

Back later.

 

[bessie]

Sorry I'm way too tired to continue this tonight I will be back tomorrow morning.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT 4.0

Not Voting (3): Laserguy, Bessie, Wam

With 3 players remaining, it takes two votes to eliminate.

All living players having requested an extension, the deadline will be extended 24 hours to 5/7/2021 @ 9:30 MDT

A maximum of two (2) more extensions may be stipulated to.

 

[Wam]

Re read notes.

I'm focusing day 1 and the somi elimination as I think that's thes critical point.

Laser Rvs for somi is interesting.

Besides first posts reminded me that she started the weird points thing. bessie Why did you drop this later in the game?

 

[Wam]

Published it early sorry

 

[Wam]

Re read notes.

I'm focusing day 1 and the somi elimination as I think that's thes critical point.

Laser Rvs for somi is interesting.

Besides first posts reminded me that she started the weird points thing. bessie Why did you drop this later in the game?

You're posting early. +1

I don't think bessie uses this meta read day 1 as scum.

End of page 4 both laser and bessie were quiet in the early part of day1.


Bessie a bit non committal on somi here

Yes I can see it’s affecting you so much that you are unable to post any content except active lurking. -1


Right Brain is stuck in my head so I’m playing as Hari Seldon’s meta. But since I am bessie, I am doing a crappy job and am not being as meticulous with my point system and am using only whole numbers, and I have never been one to focus on content unless it pings me so I’m not going to have as many plus as minus. Also, I am weak on behavior analysis and will never be as good of a player as Hari anyway so I will probably soon go back to being just bessie. +0


Was that a town claim?? -1
But I like the rest of the post. +1


I keep thinking there was a game where Mark accidentally hammered on D1 (which would make it one of the more “recent” games), but if none of you remember it, I must be getting it mixed up with a much older game, or perhaps one I didn’t play and only read (I don’t retain information as well for games in which I am not actively playing). +0

Off topic
Heh, we had a fire (literal not figurative).


Sigh. +0
View attachment 311526


Your scum pool is 6 out of 8, that’s ok for early game (and what is the post number you are trying to link? The link takes me to FaceBook.). +0
However, even if you don’t realize it, your most of your reasons for suspecting people are OMGUS. How about at least asking me a question if you suspect me? +0


#126 Like this post by Swiss, +1.

#129 Like this post by Sabrar, +1


If you are concerned scum might join your wagon, then you are implying everyone on your wagon (Gorf, Swiss, Wam) is town. But these three players are on your suspicious list. You are contradicting yourself. -2


Then why don’t you remove Gorf, Swiss, and Wam from your list for the above reason? +0


Wheel of Time 3 Mafia. Vicarin and I argued most of D1 because he was arguing a certain setup would never exist, I argued that was not true because I had modded one, he demanded another example… and he would not let it drop and was insisting I spend hours on this non-value-added task or I was scum. This went on for several RL days. And it was alignment indicative. Though I had similar arguments with plytho where it wasn’t. +0

@fontisian Haha WoT3 was the game where I used the word bioluminescence to describe BoomFrog.


I disagree, because I think it depends on the player. What is active for some is lurking for others. +0


Disagree. Eido is assigning busywork disguised as content. -1


Perhaps not active, but at least not active lurking. Are you gong to post some content? -1


Nope I guess not. -1


I don’t agree with your read of fonti. I agree with your observation that fonti is gently guiding Eido but I do not town read her for it. But I like that you gave reads with analysis to back them up. +1


Finally. This is a good content post. +1


I have always and in every game been suspicious of LAMIST content, things like spontaneous town claims early D1. What’s so townie about having to preemptively claim town?
I get townie vibes from somitomi’s style. +1
But not his content. -1


See my above reply to LaserGuy. I think because I am being lazy and using whole numbers it is skewing the results. +0


Eido -10-3 => -13
fontisian -1-2 => -3
Gorf +1+0 => +1
LaserGuy 0+0 => 0
Maven89 +1+0 => 0
Sabrar +1 +1+1 => +3
somitomi 0+0 => 0
Swiss +1+1 => +2
Wam -2+0 => -2

I feel that this is not a reaction scum would have. +1



Are you referring to my alignment or my ability as a player?

If the later:
View attachment 311539

If the former, let’s have some analysis to back up that read. Without it, that post is just a whole lotta OMGUS. And also, IS THAT A TOWN CLAIM??? -1



“I’m assuming scum are going to be tempted to join it” reads to me like he is assuming the wagon are townies, and scum are going to be tempted to join the wagon, join implying he thinks scum were not already on the wagon.

He is looking at six people, which includes the three on his wagon. Which if his wagon are townies, they shouldn't be in his scum pool.

Your defense of Eido is noted. -1

But I dont think scum bessie pushed town font like the above.

Does somi respond to a buddy line this, I really dont know. Its suspicious that somi only picked bessie and me to respond to but it's more aggressive than I would I somi to be.

It's not townie, I very specifically said I'd consider it null. What's so scummy about simply saying "I'm town"?


Not quite in the game, sadly, I have to read again over the weekend even though I swore I'm gonna stop re-reading the entire thread. At the moment I feel like Eido is the standard new player with a good chance of flipping town and not providing much information, but I've just been burned by this.

Does scum laser swing font here. Possibly, thinking about pushing a strong town player knowing the lynch is unlikely.

If you agree with bessie's points, why are you surprised that this read is weak?



I still don't really get from your explanation why you've decided to do this. I feel like you would have understood the potential difficulties and limitations of this system before you started. Why did you feel the need to adopt another player's (alt's) meta?



I thought it was obvious.



I don't see how me reconsidering an early ping based on additional content is a bad thing. As it is, when Eido actually provided his explanation for why he felt this information was necessary, that's when I decided he was probably just Town.



I am suspicious of the fact that he claimed he was scumreading Eido for one thing, then retrospectively built his case to be about something different when questioned about it.



I didn't really expect you to see it, but I have played many more games with bessie than you have so this is not surprising. On the other hand, I am suspicious of that your immediate inclination is to assign scum-motivation to me making tone/gut/meta reads based on little information, since this is something I do all the time, and I feel like we have played enough together that you should be aware of this is how I like to play.

On balance, your analysis so far feels very hedgy to me. Like you're more interested in trying to keep as many options open as you can for yeeting people, rather than actually trying to sort.

Vote: fonti

Just FYI for this and pretty much all future games... I generally have a very limited block of time to play on weekends, so my content will always be fairly low on those days.



I will do a full reads list tomorrow night and will get back to you on this when I have had the time to process. It wouldn't be the first time I have got stuck on something that I thought was a strong tell and ended up being NAI fluff.



I feel his mindset is townie. I'm not really all that concerned with the details of what he comes up with as far as it relates to my evaluation of him. How he is going about the game, why he seems to be doing the things that he is doing makes me feel he's Town. I'll go into this in more detail in my evaluation tomorrow.



I don't really understand how you could possibly believe this. The only completed game we have together where we were both Town was Apex mafia. I'm not sure we agreed on a single read that game. Oh, and you yeeted me on D1.



I intend to. I will discuss your other comments then too. I just don't have the time or energy right now.



Definitely not often. Early... I'll go with rarely.

I don't like the above from laser. I think town laser wouldnt be so conciliatory with font.

catching up from somewhere mid-Friday

I feel like this is needlessly pedantic and I don't know

I was actually surprised by how strong it appears to be. I know bessie's the kind to tunnel, but in my recollection she's usually ... friendlier towards new players, at least on D1 so Eido being her only strong read either way is odd.

I don't think scum somi memes if font has got the team right here.

End of page 7 I'm leaning laser at the moment.t

 

[bessie]

Laser Rvs for somi is interesting.

This came up a lot yesterday what is your take on it?

Besides first posts reminded me that she started the weird points thing. bessie bessie Why did you drop this later in the game?

I thought I covered this already but it was just a gambit to amuse myself, it seemed like it might even be useful until my first couple posts when I realized that because I wasn't being as fastidious with assigning points as Hari was, that the points would skew and appear disproportionate to strong scum reads (I was only using whole numbers, and I was assigning more scum points than town points). I continued because I'm annoying like that, and because it was producing interesting reactions from the other players that didn't get it, or that used it as a lazy excuse to cast suspicion on me. Why even now, an D4, you and LaserGuy still want to discuss it!

 

[Wam]

bessie

Still undecided on the rvs vote hence staying out of the discussions yesterday.

Seems to be to blatant but is that wine?

Gambit is fine but my question is probably phrased better as "why did you stop the gambit then"

 

[Wam]

Well, I had less time for this game over the weekend than anticipated, so here are some weakly ordered impressions:
YEAH
Maven - didn't post much, but us lurkers have to stick together.
Sabrar - has been asking pertinent questions, although he seems to have taken the backseat this game a little.
Fontisian - like how they've been trying to help sort the Gorf v. Eido debate out. The absolute confidence they show rubs me up the wrong way, but I couldn't read Xivii at all because of this.
LaserGuy - seems to engage with everyone and think about the responses.
Bessie - feels like her town self, although I think some of her points on Eido are nitpicky even for a bessie tunnel.
Eido - I get like 90% newbie town vibes here, they've been fairly open about their opinions and don't seem to be afraid from drawing attention. Dismissing the possibility of a quickhammer is weird coming from a fairly new player though.
Wam - feels kinda scummy like they always do, so I'm bumping to neutral. I'm not a fan of the "scum are probably lurking" take, but that's kinda personal.
Gorf - has been focusing on Eido and saying very little about anyone else, which just feels off to me. On the other hand, that'd be kind of risky for mafia to do
Swiss - spent most of his time on Eido as well, and the non-committal reads list at the end of #207 pings me a little.
BOO
Ninja'd by the entire observable universe

I know this came up yesterday but this laser read is awfully iffy from somi.

I don't know why but my mind was not interpreting deadline correctly, I was thinking 4/20 and equating that with a Tuesday night deadline.

Reads, not very refined. I left them a bit rough to get them up and still have a couple hours before I sign off for the night in case anyone wants to discuss.

bessie
Interesting choice of gambit this game, she decided to adopt one of Zen’s alt metas, and is not doing a very good job of it. The only part of Hari’s meta she adopted is the points system because she is unable to do the kind of detailed behavior analysis that Hari did, and point system isn’t really working out either, because she hasn’t adopted it thoroughly and (1) is not assigning as many positive points, and (2) is using whole numbers, and these two items are skewing the numbers. But the gambit has produced results and provoked some interesting reactions from players (compare to bessie’s mini gambit last game which went pretty much unnoticed).

Eido
When I read Eido’s content, it makes me think of an article fonti linked to a while ago on power wolfing. It’s like in all his content, trying to control the conversation by asking a lot of questions and pushing others for their opinions which would be good but he’s not offering anything of his own. If he was pushing someone, and then replied with “the reason I asked is because I think…” but he doesn’t. It’s questions but not for purpose of solving the game; it’s noise to appear busy. I’m not going to pull out a bunch of quotes, just read through P1 and P2, Eido asks questions but there is no meaningful follow up. Eido needed multiple prods to answer my questions regarding P1 content, which he finally did in #285 . Eido’s P2 is dragged down by space filling requests for old games to use for meta reads.

I really dislike #89 which I’ve previously discussed. It’s like, I feel everything is wrong with it. Eido calls out Gorf for a “bad” scum tell. For something that Eido has never seen happen, but in the same sentence says it’s something that he is sure has happened somewhere. Then reminds us that he’s a newbie and requests validation from @ everyone. Then the request for a past game to compare (or validate his opinion).
Note: in reread, I think I missed something about this, refer to Sabrar’s #187. Why didn’t Eido correct this? See also where Sabrar comes back to this in #254.

Re #118 Eido’s scum pool is entirely built on OMGUS (there’s also another request for an old game). Eido did actually give some reasons in #124 but it has a very much cart before the horse feel.

Have I said before I dislike Eido trying to validate reads by comparing to similar behavior/alignment from old games? (yes see #267) This is such a bad approach for him, but is it scummy? I am leaning yes, because many other players told him this was a bad approach, but he won’t drop it, which makes me thinks he is preemptively planning for a way to explain wrong reads (by using "the method was flawed").

Eido is interested in talking to me about Wam, starting in #244 . Why? I might want to come back to this in the future, depends on how the flips play out.

Even considering everything else, I feel #281 by itself is enough for me to vote for Eido, see my post #289 for explanation why. See also Eido’s #284, which is a response to Sabrar.

fontisian
fonti opened with LAMIST #84 which I hate (yes I know fonti and I disagree on this but I’m calling it how I read it). Right away fonti tries steering suspicion away from Eido refer to #94 . [Note: Rereading I like #96, It hadn’t stood out to me in my initial read through.]

Primary thought in my mind, is fonti scum with Eido, or helping out a newbie? fonti sees a newbie in trouble and helps him out, my gut feels that this is scum helping scum, but my brain thinks this is NAI because fonti is a generous player, and I feel it is important to her that everyone has a good game.

The other thought in my mind, refer to #237, #238 for fonti's responses to Laser, upon reflection these posts are not sitting right with me. It’s the way she approaches disagreement with LaserGuy, the two part response comes down to (1) we’re not in sync (2) which we usually are when we both are town; this leads to (3) implying is left open for the reader to decide (but it's not really). See also #288.

Gorf
My very early impression was that Gorf comes out ahead in the Eido exchange. I like that Gorf answers questions, gives reads with reasons. I think he’s town and I’m writing this one up last, I wanted to say more but I just don’t have time to spend analyzing a town read.

LaserGuy
I’m wary of LaserGuy's Eido read, I think some things that LaserGuy is labeling newbie town are just newbie. I’m still unsettled about LaserGuy questioning me on the points thing, though I suspect he had a reason he discarded and/or decided not to share. Or maybe he doesn’t. If I have extra time to put in to this tonight, I think I would like to do a more thorough LaserGuy reread. If not it can wait until D2.

Maven89
I’m going to stick my neck out here and give Maven’s lurking a D1 pass for RL issues. I like what I have seen of Maven, his opening posts on D2 are sparse but he gives opinions with reasons. I would like to see his follow up to #202 and his answer ot the questions asked by Sabrar in #204 . If Maven posts tonight I will revise this read tomorrow.

Sabrar
This game has been low content for Sabrar, but what he has given us is good quality. I made a comment in an earlier post about players that do their reads by magic; Sabrar’s not on that list because he’s not magic, he is pure brain power. If Sabrar’s town, he will lead us to scum, if he’s not it should be evident as the game progresses. But I think he’s town; I have my reasons which I’m not explaining today. And I’m not wasting my time analyzing a town read.

somitomi
I get the feeling somitomi is lurking because he is busy, not necessarily because he is mafia. What little content he has posted gives me a townie vibe, but the content in itself doesn’t. Pre post edit, he posted his reads list as I was working on this. I feel that scum!somi would have found a reason to scum read Maven; also he put two generally town-read players at the top of his scum list when he could have gone for Wam. Moving somi to my don’t want to yeet today list.

Swiss
I feel most of his early content is NAI. He makes several soft town claims, which I don't like. Swiss keeps a running town-scum list, which I do like. I am a very strong supporter of town-scum lists with no groupings because they force you to make a read on everyone, even if it is only in relation to everyone else, and Swiss gives us one every day.

Swiss, I have an unanswered question to you in #231 . The answer may or may not influence my read, so please answer before end of day.

Wam
Wam’s early content is not bad, he gives opinions with reasons, and an early town-scum list. He has manages to get some scum leans, but to be blunt, D1 Wam is low hanging fruit in every game, especially if he’s town (sorry Wam). Scum Wam is a much better player. I’m not interested in pursuing a Wam elimination today.


Isolated content / overall vibe
Eido -21 / -3
Fontisian -7 / -2
Gorf +6 / +1
LaserGuy +1 / +1
Maven89 +1 / -1
Sabrar +5 / +2
Somitomi -2 / +0
Swiss +2 / +0
Wam -2 / +0


Woof
bessie
Sabrar
Gorf
LaserGuy
Swiss
Wam
somitomi
Maven89
fontisian
Eido
Grr


fonti's list, subject to revision with new content, or revision because I rethought something:
I will not yeet: Sabrar, Gorf
I would not like to yeet: somitomi, Wam, LaserGuy, Swiss
I am ambivalent about yeeting: Maven
I would consider yeeting: fonti
I would like to yeet: Eido


Vote: Eido

This post makes me think bessie is town based on meta. However somi is exactly where I would expect bessie to put a buddy.

Reads:

bessie:

Her interest and engagement levels in the game strike me as Town bessie. I've talked about this already, but bessie tends to struggle a lot to come up with good content as mafia and often comes across as uninterested in the game. I don't get that impression from her here.

I spent some time thinking about whether scum!bessie would attempt to use something like the point system to distract from her scum play, and, on balance, I think this is unlikely. Likely Town.


Eido:

He pinged Town early for me and not a lot has changed here. I understand there is a level of weirdness in his play, but I think his process is very genuine.


Swiss:

I liked his opening and early Eido push, and there were several posts during this sequence that pinged Town. His progression on Eido from scum to newbie Town feels quite natural. I find it townie that he admits his read confidence has gone down as the day has gone on (#109-#207), though this is somewhat tempered by the fact that I don't really feel like his recent posting has shown an uptick in engagement or scumhunting to try to resolve this. Putting him at Town lean.


wam:

I have a recollection that scum!Wam is often read as Town and Town!Wam is often read as scum, so the fact that, on balance, I like Wam's content this game, is putting me on edge a little bit. I have some particular concerns related to Wam/fonti that I will discuss in my fonti read (pedit: having done my fonti review, I'm less sure of this connection anyway). I do think that the persistent tunnel on Eido is more consistent with Town!wam, though. Independently of fonti I'm going to put him at Town lean.


somitomi:

A lot of the same problems as Maven, just lacking in content overall, though this is NAI for somitomi just as it is for Maven. I get vaguely townie vibes based on tone and his reads in #297, though thin, are very non-consensusy and do show some original thought, which is promising. I'd go with nullTown here.


Gorf:

On review, I think my opinion of Gorf has improved somewhat. I still don't like the push on Eido, which sort of tempers my enthusiasm for the slot overall since a lot of his content is focused there, but he seems to be processing in a natural way and I feel his reconsideration of Eido in #256 looks good. I'll put him at nullTown.


Maven89:

Hard null. I feel like almost every game I've played with Maven has kind of gone this way. I think he is a poor yeet at present given that if he flips Town it is doesn't give us much in the way of info beyond sorting the slot, but I can understand the reasoning behind it.


Sabrar:

The last few Town games I've played with Sabrar he's come out tonally very townie and has been fairly active. I feel like in this game he is much more conflict adverse and low key and that's raising some red flags. I have liked a lot of the questions he's been asking, but I don't feel that is strongly alignment indicative for Sabrar. Leaning scum.


fonti:

In the previous games where I have played with Town!fonti, her analysis has been very, specific, detailed, and disturbingly accurate. I want to highlight a couple of posts from early in Midnight OPS showing her process: here, here, here, and especially here. She is very candid with her assessments of players, and is rapidly moving toward forming a very solid Towncore that is pretty much unshakeable from her POV for the entire game. We see a similar progression in Apex mafia, both with her Townreads, (here, here, here, here) and here scumreads (here, here, here). This isn't intended to be exhaustive, merely representative. The important point is that she is actively moving towards forming a towncore and that her townreads tend to be strong and difficult to shake.

This is in large part what I've seen lacking in her play so far this game. She isn't trying to move Town together toward a solve, and her reads reflect that. In fact, her #238 seems to suggest she's more interested in controlling the narrative of the game than she is in solving. Her read on me in #210 seems clearly intended to be a scum read, but she hedges hard at the end with her tl;dr. There's a similar hedginess in her read on Eido (#86, which she starts out strong and then quickly backpedals. Was there a substantial change in Eido's process that led her to this conclusion? Not really. Eido's play has been pretty consistent, for better or worse. There is a similar example with bessie and somitomi and then backs down quickly.

Her current solve is that we yeet one of the two lowest hanging fruit players and hope for the best and she... doesn't seem bothered by that. Contrast her reads here to Midnight, where she had a very, very clear, correct direction and was willing to go to the mat for it. Ditto in Apex. Both games were Town!fonti. Contrast the very similar ambivalence of scum!fonti in TIL that we observe in this game. fonti is an extremely strong Town player with excellent instincts and aggressively collects her townreads and pushes her scumreads. The milquetoast version of fonti that were are seeing this game is probably scum.

About wam:

Spoiler

This read feels like a buddy read. Note that fonti never follows up with wam about anything, but throws him into the towncore as well. wam, on the other hand, seems very reluctant to talk about fonti at all. Admittedly, I thought there were more weird interactions between them than I noted on reread, so this isn't as solid of a connection as I had thought earlier.

Town
LaserGuy
bessie
Eido
Swiss
wam
somitomi
Gorf
Maven === NULL
Sabrar
fonti
Scum


Or, in fonti's parlance:

I will not yeet: LaserGuy, bessie, Eido Swiss
I would not like to yeet: wam, somitomi, Gorf
I would consider yeeting: Sabrar, Maven
I would like to yeet: fonti

When eido is the alternative to somi does buddy laser here go for a strong town read or is this showing Tmi. Also the somi read is waffle and weak.

^
I can't say I really trust fonti at all, but Swiss is reading super scummy in this exchange.

Will think on this. I'll be back closer to deadline.

With hindsight this looks very bad from laser. Looks like he's setting himself up for a lst minute switch to swiss if that wagon gets going.

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v1.10

Somitomi (4): Wam, Gorf, Swiss, Eido
Swiss (2): Fontisian, Somitomi
Eido (1): Bessie
Fontisian (1): Laserguy

Not Voting (2): Sabrar, Maven

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to eliminate!

Deadline is in approximately 3 hours

At this point bessie is still hammering eido. I think scum bessie looks to save somi somehow. Is that by pushing eido.... laser has at this point hinted towards the swiss lynch.

I don't think it's Swiss or somitomi. I still think the mafia team is Eido and fonti.

This looks superficially bad for Bessie but I think it shows a genuine belief somi is going to flip town.

End of day 1.

I'm still leaning laserguy based on all the above.

Off topic everyone on somi was town! No one bussed.

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v1.11 (FINAL D1 VOTE COUNT)

Somitomi (6): Wam, Gorf, Swiss, Maven, Fontisian, Eido
Swiss (1): Somitomi
Eido (1): Bessie
Fontisian (1): Laserguy

Not Voting (1): Sabrar

Somitomi has been eliminated by majority vote! Somitomi flips as the Mafia Goon!

NIGHT ONE BEGINS! PLEASE SUBMIT ALL NIGHT ACTIONS BY 4/22/2021 @ 12 A.M. MDT! Any actions not submitted by this deadline will not be counted and no action will be taken on your behalf. Day Two will not begin before this time period has expired.

Happy 4/20 everyone!

P.S. OP edited to include eliminated player list with links to EoD/SoD posts

 

[LaserGuy]

freezeblade was playing as Snark, this was one of the gambits Snark used to do, he put everyone into groupings and analyzed them as teams or something. Yes it was Team Orange and I laughed my ass off over your response and used you hating orange in my flavor posts for the rest of the game. And sigh I can never mod another game because I can never top myself on the Meta Mafia II flavor. I have most of the game I can post it if there is interest.

Yes, that's right. I had never played with Snark so it seemed to come completely out of nowhere. I believe I complained a lot (as Madge) about the colour orange being super ugly or something. I'd love to see the game at some point, as it is one of my favourites, but no rush on it as I won't have time to read it until after we're done here I expect.

Oh gosh maybe the game Wam hosted that had like three scum teams and an indie? I was mafia but so was half the player base.

Could be. I didn't play or really follow that game.

I want to say we had a similar discussion in Newbie New Year, when flicky has to claim or be lynched. And he said something like “a PR claim is the only thing that’s going to get me out of this isn’t it” and was told yes, but he still claimed vanilla town, for which Sabrar immediately town read him. Anyway I still don’t see the advantage of claiming a power role in this situation. And I’m not sure scum!Wam would have claimed a PR in this situation, there’s just wasn’t enough time to make this work unless you knew the PR was online, and that the PR would counterclaim. I guess otherwise it might have saved somi from the yeet but only for one day, he would be policy yeeted with the counterclaim on D2 and they would have missed the opportunity to kill the PR N1.

Right. The reason I gave you a scum point for this is due to this philosophical difference. I feel that Wam is more the sort of player to suggest that their partner belligerently claim a PR in this situation either to 1) just survive the yeet, even if just for the day or 2) flush out the Town PR since Wam is already bussing and in good position. Vicarin and Wam did a similar thing in WoT3.

I thought I covered this already but it was just a gambit to amuse myself, it seemed like it might even be useful until my first couple posts when I realized that because I wasn't being as fastidious with assigning points as Hari was, that the points would skew and appear disproportionate to strong scum reads (I was only using whole numbers, and I was assigning more scum points than town points). I continued because I'm annoying like that, and because it was producing interesting reactions from the other players that didn't get it, or that used it as a lazy excuse to cast suspicion on me. Why even now, an D4, you and LaserGuy still want to discuss it!

Content is content. Just because something happened in D1 doesn't mean it isn't still relevant to what's happening now. We're also still talking about my RVS vote.

When eido is the alternative to somi does buddy laser here go for a strong town read or is this showing Tmi. Also the somi read is waffle and weak.

Somi's content was minimal. Nobody had a strong read on him. I read him based on what I had.

With hindsight this looks very bad from laser. Looks like he's setting himself up for a lst minute switch to swiss if that wagon gets going.

Swiss' reaction to fonti's case was super sketchy.

Off topic everyone on somi was town! No one bussed.

Look at me, I'm so Town!


Will start rereading Wam in a bit.

 

[Wam]

Look at me, I'm so Town!

I knew this would be flagged but I thought it would be bessie!

 

[LaserGuy]

I thought we might make it to page 2 before this . Also last time I played with font they did a tunnel on me that reminded me of your tunnels sabrar. maybe you should team up?

I thought the sarcasm in my message was obvious clearly not!

And no one likes day 1 wam!

I like the jokey tone of these posts. As I noted in my earlier Wam read though, this is a somewhat different opening from his last two Town games.

Below is where my heads at currently.


Town
Sabrar
Swiss

Unknown
Laser
Bessie
Font
Maven
Gorf
Somi

Scum
Eido

Wam seems a lot more cautious this game. In TIL mafia he was quite scrappy and got into a lot of arguments early and had some fairly strong opinions about people. Likewise in TIL mafia Wam got into a fight with fonti pretty early on and pushed her pretty hard. While he definitely did push on Eido, I don't feel the same intensity here. I went looking through Stellaris D1, but it's kind of inconclusive because Wam was apparently super busy and struggling to contribute.

@somitomi can I get a rough idea of where your head is at?

Wam , why didn't you acknowledge when somi has posted his reads shortly after this or follow up with him?

Looking over D1 Wam, I don't really see a lot jumping out that's different from my earlier assessment in D3:

Spoiler

Wam's push on somi starts earlier than I had remembered, back in #287. Somi posts his reads shortly after (#297). The fact that Wam does not even acknowledge somi's reads is interesting, but I can find reasons for both Town or scum Wam to do it. Wam does like to bus as scum, so it's possible that this push was planned with the expectation that it would probably go nowhere if somi was able to put out some content. On the other hand, the fact that Wam wasn't certain he would be around at deadline to change his vote (#332) makes this a pretty risky play. Though at the time wam left (#398) this did not seem a particularly likely wagon (#377) and when he returned (#516) somi's yeet was fairly inevitable (#490).

I feel the timing of somi's return (#277) to Wam's vote (#287) to somi's reads (#297) fits with the idea that Wam might be bussing here. Somi had no other votes at the time and didn't really have any pressure, so Wam jumping out to this early was could have been intended to be a safe play to create distance, with the hopes that somi's content would subsequently improve and things would move elsewhere. At the time fonti was just launching a big push against Swiss and I had cased fonti, Maven was AWOL. It's still high-risk, but I don't think it's outside Wam's range. If Wam is scum, he's played an excellent game. But I don't think that's outside of his range either. Will have a closer look at Wam D2/D3 this evening.

Wam , at what point did you decide fonti was scum? Why were you so certain at the start of D2?

 

[LaserGuy]

Likewise in TIL mafia Wam got into a fight with fonti pretty early on and pushed her pretty hard

This should read Apex mafia not TIL.

 

[Wam]

LaserGuy

1) because he had played for time not really answered so my vote then came out.

2) I decided on font re reading the lynch N1

 

[LaserGuy]

1) because he had played for time not really answered so my vote then came out.

I mean after you had voted. You voted on #287, he posted reads on #297. You were still in thread for awhile yet, but didn't acknowledge his reads.

 

[Wam]

The reads didnt change much for me they were quite lacking.

 

[bessie]

Quick catch up post. I came home from work a little earlier than usual.

End of page 4 both laser and bessie were quiet in the early part of day1.

I post once-ish a day (or during one time period) on weekdays. Exactly the same as my previous game, and as almost every other game I play.

Does somi respond to a buddy line this, I really dont know. Its suspicious that somi only picked bessie and me to respond to but it's more aggressive than I would I somi to be.

Did somi have a lot of unanswered questions to respond to from other players when he made that post? I need to check.

Gambit is fine but my question is probably phrased better as "why did you stop the gambit then"

Shrug, the gambit ran its course for provoking reactions from other players, I had any useful information I needed for myself and by the time I stopped I had a pretty good idea where my mind was going, so at that point it would have been a lot of work for little return.

Or…. Maybe I’m actually Hari Seldon playing to my own meta??

This post makes me think bessie is town based on meta. However somi is exactly where I would expect bessie to put a buddy.

Interesting!

So Wam , where do you think somitomi would put a buddy?

Here's somitomi's list from this game for reference:

Well, I had less time for this game over the weekend than anticipated, so here are some weakly ordered impressions:
YEAH
Maven - didn't post much, but us lurkers have to stick together.
Sabrar - has been asking pertinent questions, although he seems to have taken the backseat this game a little.
Fontisian - like how they've been trying to help sort the Gorf v. Eido debate out. The absolute confidence they show rubs me up the wrong way, but I couldn't read Xivii at all because of this.
LaserGuy - seems to engage with everyone and think about the responses.
Bessie - feels like her town self, although I think some of her points on Eido are nitpicky even for a bessie tunnel.
Eido - I get like 90% newbie town vibes here, they've been fairly open about their opinions and don't seem to be afraid from drawing attention. Dismissing the possibility of a quickhammer is weird coming from a fairly new player though.
Wam - feels kinda scummy like they always do, so I'm bumping to neutral. I'm not a fan of the "scum are probably lurking" take, but that's kinda personal.
Gorf - has been focusing on Eido and saying very little about anyone else, which just feels off to me. On the other hand, that'd be kind of risky for mafia to do
Swiss - spent most of his time on Eido as well, and the non-committal reads list at the end of #207 pings me a little.
BOO

Here's somitomi's town-scum list from Completely Vanilla Mafia for comparison:

Holy smokes, lot of pages since I last checked in.
I'm gonna try sum up my impressions, although I feel like it's all based on gutfeels and nothing at this point.
Suspicious
UtopianPoyzin
Xivii
DarkPit
Osieorb (neutral-ish)
FrozenFlame
BoomFrog
Chaco
Cool

Scum team was somitomi and FrozenFlame. Ima just sayin hmmmm …

Off topic everyone on somi was town! No one bussed.

I was out of skeptical BessieDog pics so I had to dig through some old files just for you!

Right. The reason I gave you a scum point for this is due to this philosophical difference. I feel that Wam is more the sort of player to suggest that their partner belligerently claim a PR in this situation either to 1) just survive the yeet, even if just for the day or 2) flush out the Town PR since Wam is already bussing and in good position. Vicarin and Wam did a similar thing in WoT3.

Oh yeah, I remember Vicarin claimed my role. I forgot Wam was his partner. I'll get that game posted too as soon as I have a chance.

Content is content. Just because something happened in D1 doesn't mean it isn't still relevant to what's happening now. We're also still talking about my RVS vote.

Agreed all content posted in the game thread is fair game for analysis. It just seems like some things get a bit over discussed.


Back later.

 

[bessie]

Did somi have a lot of unanswered questions to respond to from other players when he made that post? I need to check.

I couldn't find any unanswered questions that somi had when he made #224 except to me and Wam.

I aam super exhausted but I will do my best to have more content posted tonight. I want to avoid another extension if possible, since Wam and LaserGuy are busy weekends anyway.

 

[bessie]

With hindsight this looks very bad from laser. Looks like he's setting himself up for a lst minute switch to swiss if that wagon gets going.

Yes but he didn't switch, he didn't even try and fonti was pushing.

But neither did you so whatever.

 

[LaserGuy]

On mobile, will give some more thoughts in a little while when I get to a computer, but going leave this here in case Bessie wants the extra time.

Request extension

 

[Wam]

I'm busy this afternoon/ evening, so incase I dont get back to this and bessie does want an extension

rrequest extension

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v4.1

Not Voting (3): Laserguy, Bessie, Wam

With 3 players remaining, it takes two votes to eliminate.

Deadline is in approximately 10.5 hours.

Two of the three players have requested a second 24 hour extension, unanimous consent before the expiration of the current deadline is required before an extension will be granted.

A maximum of two (2) more extensions may be stipulated to.

 

[LaserGuy]

Okay, I think I'm just going to commit to this. I think bessie is Town. If she's scum, she's played a stellar game and was never going to be caught regardless of what I do here. So I'm fine eating the loss in that scenario.

I'll briefly outline the key points on Wam, but I'll try to keep this as concise as I can because bessie is already struggling with her reread and my analysis is mostly WIFOM to her anyway.

Last remaining mafia is Wam.
-Wam's style this game is notably more composed this game. I feel like he's putting a lot more effort and care into his posting this game than in his previous Town games, where he tended to be more off-the-cuff. I feel like there's a better reference for this, but I can't find it. Here's some relevant meta.
-Wam and somi basically ignore each other for the entirety of the game. Wam pokes him once or twice for more content, but never actually evaluates any of somi's content when it appears. He's already decided how he's going to position himself. Wam's moves for an early bus against somi (#287) and rides it out. He never makes an actual push against somi, just sits his vote there to see what happens. Helpful reference, B99 scumchat (Vic/Somi), #14:

I probably won't even come close to how well I did in Chaos, having other mafia to hunt for helped me a lot.
Weekend is now pretty much over for me and I barely started on the reread, which seens just as useless as it always does. I might not deliver on that reads post, so feel free to bus me if you think that gives you better odds.
I'm really sorry again.

Somi is struggling for content and suggests that Vic bus if he thinks it will help his position.

Wam shared similar sentiments with me in the SS 2018 scum chat (LaserGuy and wam). Not shy about bussing or being bussed, more important to set up the team than worry about one player getting yeeted. Relevant post is #15:

I think at this stage you should just keep bussing. May or may not get lynched but if I do it should set you up nicely. Given the suspicion on me if I survive I'm happy to carry out the kill.

Was also thinking through false claim. How about "partial cop, I pick 2 players and get told if they are the same alignment".

-somi gives a basically nothing read on wam:

Wam - feels kinda scummy like they always do, so I'm bumping to neutral. I'm not a fan of the "scum are probably lurking" take, but that's kinda personal.

First part gives no information, second part feels like distancing. Wam is left quite low on the reads list despite being "neutral". As noted, Wam doesn't really give any comments on somi beyond complaining about his lack of content, leaving room for Wam to drop his vote if somi did manage to pick up his performance.

-EoD wam is positioned strongly off of a scum yeet. He spends much of Day 2-3 focusing his energy on pushing vs. fonti and lets Town tear itself apart. Wam plays a strong scum game and is able to carry the momentum from the D1 yeet forward.

Vote: Wam

 

[LaserGuy]

I'm busy this afternoon/ evening, so incase I dont get back to this and bessie does want an extension

rrequest extension

Can I also just mention how weirdly unconcerned and non-commital this stance is?

 

[LaserGuy]

Like, why not at least drop a vote so that bessie has the opportunity to hammer if she wants to?

 

[Wam]

Like, why not at least drop a vote so that bessie has the opportunity to hammer if she wants to?

Because if I'm wrong and it is bessie. She can hammer and win. I would rather have an extension.

The above from laser backs up what I have been feeling all day. Lasers bessie read definitely felt like going through the motions not seriously looking at her play.

But in going to ride or die on my meta read of bessie.

Vote laserguy

 

[Wam]

Also was so tempted to vote bessie at the begunning of the post then vote laser at the end of the post just to hear swiss and font scream from the afterlife.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT v4.2

Wam (1): Laserguy
Laserguy (1): Wam

Not Voting (1): Bessie

With 3 players remaining, it takes two votes to eliminate.

Deadline is in approximately 7 hours.

Two of the three players have requested a second 24 hour extension, unanimous consent before the expiration of the current deadline is required before an extension will be granted.

A maximum of two (2) more extensions may be stipulated to.

 

[bessie]

Request extension.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

All living players having requested an extension, the deadline will be extended 24 hours to 5/8/2021 @ 9:30 MDT

A maximum of one (1) more extension may be stipulated to.

 

[bessie]

I'm busy this afternoon/ evening, so incase I dont get back to this and bessie does want an extension

Why did you not vote if you weren’t sure if you would be back?

Okay, I think I'm just going to commit to this. I think bessie is Town. If she's scum, she's played a stellar game and was never going to be caught regardless of what I do here. So I'm fine eating the loss in that scenario.

Is this a compliment or an insult??

I'll briefly outline the key points on Wam, but I'll try to keep this as concise as I can because bessie is already struggling with her reread and my analysis is mostly WIFOM to her anyway.

Conciseness is appreciated.

-Wam's style this game is notably more composed this game. I feel like he's putting a lot more effort and care into his posting this game than in his previous Town games, where he tended to be more off-the-cuff. I feel like there's a better reference for this, but I can't find it. Here's some relevant meta.

Haha if this is a buddy attempt it won’t work, that read was by Right Brain.

Because if I'm wrong and it is bessie. She can hammer and win. I would rather have an extension.

Yeah but the point is that you worded it like you might not be back before deadline, why not drop a vote?

Also was so tempted to vote bessie at the begunning of the post then vote laser at the end of the post just to hear swiss and font scream from the afterlife.

Wam you know you totally missed out on style points here.