Data Decisive Games Introduction Thread (make sure to check the new forum rules as well!)

[Orboknown]

Somebody sign up for replacements :/

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Somebody sign up for replacements :/

10replacements

 

[BSL]

Ok I'll do it.



Normally I would'nt because I'm not sure how reliable I am, but I know ryker has my phone number and knows where I live so I guess he'll keep me in check

Worst case scenario anyway; he shouldn't have to.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He's probably going to need to, lol.

 

[.L-]

The account has finally been made. This contract is sealed.

 

[BarDulL]

The account has finally been made. This contract is sealed.

Spoiler

Spoiler

But in all seriousness, cool beans

.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

once again, that hydra can only be scum

 

[.L-]

I wish I could mod this account so I could embed L's theme into posts like this

once again, that hydra can only be scum

This assumption is poorly founded and will be the crop harvested by the true Kira if you continue to hold to it.

To begin, even if one were to give in to presupposition, this form of it ensures the poorest outcome. Even in the most unbalanced of games, the highest probability of my being Kira would be thirty-eight... no, thirty-nine percent. To indulge such whimsy you stand a far greater chance of my intentions being precisely as outlined, and thus my death would serve the greater purposes of Kira. By announcing your intentions in this way you provide Kira with the ability to nurture this fallacious belief without exerting himself, and perhaps move on to condemn you in the eyes of the others for your destructive actions. It would require little effort on his part, as one or even many will surely pursue this course of action after you so brazenly attempted to use it in "Mass Effect", where the fault of such thing was quite clearly exposed to you.

Some would see your inability to learn this lesson as a deliberate push to end the life of a strong opponent of Kira... because you are Kira. Others still may sense the naivety in such actions, but then draw the conclusion that you are pushing it forth as a false face of foolishness, allowing you to pursue actions that serve Kira without righteous retribution -- retribution they will be willing to provide. Somewhere within this bog of nonsense Kira would hide, laughing and indistinguishable, as you orchestrate first my demise and then your own.

Assuming myself to be a proper opponent of Kira would provide a roughly sixty-seven percent chance of being correct, but may lead you to confusion at key moments that would not be present if you were not acting on such baseless assumptions. It may also cause you to be more vulnerable to deception if I am, in fact, Kira -- both through this confusion and other such self-imposed machinations of foolhardiness.

It is a very simple matter to see that the common wisdom of treating all potential suspects as equals prior to the application of any logical scrutiny is the best path toward success, so long as you are not too feeble to navigate these suspects with graceful consideration and deduction rather than emotions, convenient folk "wisdom", and other such nearly-supernatural silliness.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I want some of that cake.

 

[Orboknown]

Oh ****, that's what I'll be dealing with ingame?

 

[ranmaru]

Just hope he's town.

 

[.L-]

Oh ****, that's what I'll be dealing with ingame?

If you feel intimidated you are free to leave at any time. We will not stop you.

Just hope he's town.

Hope has nothing to do with it. With 13 players the standard numerical distribution of non-town factions of all sorts leaves me with a 23, 30, or 38 percent chance of being some variation of non-town. This of course leaves you with the alternative 77, 70, or 62 percent chance that I am town, roughly two for every three games.

Knowing these variables it can be assumed I have a 69.6% chance of being of town alignment at the start of any given game. With only a 30.4% chance of being scum it would be foolhardy to make any drastic assumptions for any given player.

Knowing this in conjunction with the undeniable fact that there is an inevitable Kira amongst the players already in this game, even if they do not know it, it is important to come in with the proper mindset.

Publicly stating that you hope I am town prior to anyone knowing their role indicates that we will receive special attention for no in-game reason. This gives Kira, whether Kira ends up being myself or another, an opportunity to manipulate your wishful thinking. Should I be Kira, you could expect me to know I am being watched carefully and to react as such. This puts you in a precarious position as it means the most likely indicator that I am Kira is that I do not act like Kira. This is hardly a good starting point.

To prevent further mishaps of this sort from occuring, I suggest you do not openly tip your hand. The most dangerous thing to do is to come to a decision before evidence is provided. It can become a poison that clouds your judgement. You must be able to remove yourself.

Hopefully we will get along just fine.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm just going to man up and try and read the slot.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

If you feel intimidated you are free to leave at any time. We will not stop you.

Not intimidated moreso that I'll have a lot of reading to do.

I'm just going to man up and try and read the slot.

Pretty much this.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OS / EE hydra would probably be fun to play with if people would make a bigger effort at actually emancipating themselves.

 

[Overswarm]

if people made a bigger effort at.... removing themselves from authority?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

A lot of people would consider you and EE as "authority figures" when it comes to mafia regardless of whether that's actually the case or not. You're going to win arguments solely based on that, which will make it unfun to play against you - not because you are smart [that would be the fun part of playing with you] but because everybody else ... you get the picture.

I think the word "emancipate" applies in that case even though the way you perceive it is not the way I origianally meant it. Maybe the word emancipate has other implications in my language than it does in english.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Or you treat him like any other player without an indication of bias. I look forward to tearing apart your frivolous walls, .L-

 

[Overswarm]

A lot of people would consider you and EE as "authority figures" when it comes to mafia regardless of whether that's actually the case or not. You're going to win arguments solely based on that, which will make it unfun to play against you - not because you are smart [that would be the fun part of playing with you] but because everybody else ... you get the picture.

I think the word "emancipate" applies in that case even though the way you perceive it is not the way I origianally meant it. Maybe the word emancipate has other implications in my language than it does in english.

I guess I can see it.

But if everyone sees as authority figures and you can't get them to not do so, seems like good play on EE/OS's part. :B

 

[Duke Out!]

A lot of people would consider you and EE as "authority figures" when it comes to mafia regardless of whether that's actually the case or not. You're going to win arguments solely based on that, which will make it unfun to play against you - not because you are smart [that would be the fun part of playing with you] but because everybody else ... you get the picture.

I think the word "emancipate" applies in that case even though the way you perceive it is not the way I origianally meant it. Maybe the word emancipate has other implications in my language than it does in english.

Eff that. If EE/OS hydra are scum and we're Town, we're going to drift so hard that they'll be thrown into the D-Dimension. It'll be IMPOSSIBLE for them to post straight.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Eff that. If EE/OS hydra are scum and we're Town, we're going to drift so hard that they'll be thrown into the D-Dimension.

What if we're scum and they're town? Will we still fly down drift mountain and chug Rip-it??

 

[Duke Out!]

What if we're scum and they're town? Will we still fly down drift mountain and chug Rip-it??

We'll still fulfill the prophecy and be the ones to walk between both worlds.

DUKE OUT!

 

[Handorin]

Gheb, "befreien" hat doch eine ganz andere Bedeutung wenn du das gemeint hast. Es bedeutet "to Free" was aber auch geht. "emanzipieren" geht auch, aber, wie du schon gesagt hast, hat eine andere Konnotation auf englisch. Ich würde sagen dass befreien ein besseres Wort wäre.

Je mehr du weißt... =D

 

[BarDulL]

We'll still fulfill the prophecy and be the ones to walk between both worlds.

DUKE OUT!

 

[Overswarm]

Gheb, "befreien" hat doch eine ganz andere Bedeutung wenn du das gemeint hast. Es bedeutet "to Free" was aber auch geht. "emanzipieren" geht auch, aber, wie du schon gesagt hast, hat eine andere Konnotation auf englisch. Ich würde sagen dass befreien ein besseres Wort wäre.

Je mehr du weißt... =D

I don't know if "exempt" would be a good word either. Emancipate works, its just "high" language that isn't used very often. Most people would just say "if people just wouldn't take your word for granted" or "take everything you said with a grain of salt" or some other colloquialism to get it across. I think emancipate works, just looked like a mistranslation because we typically use the word almost specifically towards slavery.

 

[BarDulL]

In all seriousness, I kinda hate that Gheb feels that everyone's resigned to OS/EE's authority and shiz. In the end, it should be about whether or not EE/OS are credible/trustworthy in-game, and their accomplishments from other games I feel shouldn't really have any bearing on that, y'know? Like, OS/EE can still be town/scum in each new game, so people shouldn't let them off the hook if they make a mistake or resign themselves to OS/EE's authority if OS/EE haven't proven themselves yet to be credible/trustworthy in a specific game.

So to add on to that, even if OS/EE are both fairly good (EE is one of the most diplomatic people I've ever met in an online community and OS is holy shiz knowledgeable and good at figuring out set ups and stuff like that), people shouldn't go into a game throwing both those players their trust. IDK, that's how I approach each game anyway, but I feel everyone should approach the game with that mindset.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I doubt gheb actually thinks everyone just goes "lol, follow ee/os". But people definitely value their opinions over other people. Like, if we're in a game, and I say Gheb is definitely town, but ee/os says gheb is definitely scum, and you have no real reason to distrust either of us, who are you gonna listen to? Even if I was right and ee/os was wrong, I'd probably get ignored because my wall was less impressive.

 

[BSL]

Gheb all I hear is johns teehee

I lost it when I saw that German post, then OS's response in English.

 

[BarDulL]

I trust my own reads and make my own decisions, but I still respect/listen to the opinions of others regardless. So, hypothetically, if EE/OS have a scum read on Gheb in some random game in the future, it's still possible that OS/EE are just writing a nice fictional novel and actually happen to be scum themselves. That being said, it almost goes without saying that I may or may not buy their novel depending on their credibility in a specific game. Resigning myself to the words coming out of their mouth at all times is just unparalleled whackness.

Point is: people need to constantly re-evaluate their reads on each slot and not subject themselves to the authority of a slot that could ultimately condemn Town as a whole. Isn't this like common sense? o.O;. I'm pretty sure everyone already knows this but still I feel like it needs to be said here.

Also I'm pretty sure Gheb was serious when he said people are slaves and need to emancipate themselves, this isn't a new thing with Gheb XD no offense to Gheb of course.

 

[Dooms]

/out small

Game isn't starting soon enough and I'm about to leave for a 12 day V/LA lol.

 

[.L-]

Or you treat him like any other player without an indication of bias. I look forward to tearing apart your frivolous walls, .L-

Wise and logical advice.

Immediate, direct, and complete contradiction of said wise advice.

[collapse=Analysis within]After stating that one should not act upon preexisting biases, you:

1. Assume that there will be walls

2. Assume that they will be frivolous

3. Declare that you will be tearing them down

4. Assume that they will merit "tearing down" in the first place.

And all this based on ............ ?[/collapse]

How strange.

 

[BSL]

#Got'em

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I just wanna go read L and see what he does, if he's town then I will try to work with him.

 

[BarDulL]

Or you treat him like any other player without an indication of bias. I look forward to tearing apart your frivolous walls, .L-

Dangit, how'd I miss this? Coulda saved myself time. :[

#uselessfrivolousposting

 

[Evil Eye]

Y'know, I resent the (all too common) sentiment that my reputation gets me places on its own, like some kind of needy elephant. It gets thrown around a lot -- too much for my liking tbh -- but in terms of actual ingame manifestations? It has brought me more headaches and pains in my *** than anything else. I've seen scum use it to buddy up a lot and I see it get thrown around in pre- and postgames and out of game discussions about past games and future games and... whatever. You know what it has gotten me in games? Killed in Avril Lavinge Mafia immediately before I un-V/LA'd (marshy was holding the fort for D1-3 and I chipped in a couple tiny things). Hardbodied for multiple IRL days in Bioware because my prior play hadn't added up to what people wanted and I was nearly crucified for making an earlygame ****-up, something people obviously felt couldn't be possible. Dogged in early Full Life Consequences not because of my conduct but because of who I am and whether or not I was living up to the metric people were expecting. Thrown under the bus by a terrible mechanic as scum in a BRoom game, where I did a graceful bus of a scumbuddy on D1 and my partner sent me to do the kill (why was he able to do that without my permission or knowledge, I can never forgive what utter bull**** that was) because he felt no one would bother to investigate EE, not thinking about actual ingame mechanics (I was watched... but the watcher also got to track people, meaning good play + bad mechanics ruined me, and the game. Yeah this was another nail in the coffin let me tell ya)

Last but not least, ****ing daykilled in ****ing Mario Party ****ing 2.

I would say I've won one argument I didn't deserve to, ever, on such a basis. And it was me pushing a scum read on someone that was town, and that person didn't end up getting lynched and got to live on until near-endgame, so hey. Obviously it didn't sway that much. My rep got people on my side and my mediocre argument didn't seal the deal.

I dunno, it's kind of insulting tbqh. Maybe I'm underestimating the unstated, subconscious influence such things can have on people, but some pretty dog-eared implications are nestled in that statement imo

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, "befreien" hat doch eine ganz andere Bedeutung wenn du das gemeint hast. Es bedeutet "to Free" was aber auch geht. "emanzipieren" geht auch, aber, wie du schon gesagt hast, hat eine andere Konnotation auf englisch. Ich würde sagen dass befreien ein besseres Wort wäre.

I don't know if "exempt" would be a good word either. Emancipate works, its just "high" language that isn't used very often. Most people would just say "if people just wouldn't take your word for granted" or "take everything you said with a grain of salt" or some other colloquialism to get it across. I think emancipate works, just looked like a mistranslation because we typically use the word almost specifically towards slavery.

Well, in german emancipate also means to distance oneself from dependancy - not necessarily in the context of slavery. I'm pretty sure that's a connotation that the english word "to emancipate oneself" also has but I didn't realize it was less a common one than in the context of slavery. I think emancipate is the right word for it.

I'm pretty sure Gheb was serious when he said people are slaves and need to emancipate themselves, this isn't a new thing with Gheb XD no offense to Gheb of course.

Why would I take offense in that? You've simply repeated what I've been saying for a while now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If people sheep like that, Vinyl is a prime example of this, then they need to step it up and stop being sheep.

Or other players need to convince them otherwise.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

why was he able to do that without my permission or knowledge, I can never forgive what utter bull**** that was

I feel you man

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I wish I could mod this account so I could embed L's theme into posts like this

This assumption is poorly founded and will be the crop harvested by the true Kira if you continue to hold to it.

To begin, even if one were to give in to presupposition, this form of it ensures the poorest outcome. Even in the most unbalanced of games, the highest probability of my being Kira would be thirty-eight... no, thirty-nine percent. To indulge such whimsy you stand a far greater chance of my intentions being precisely as outlined, and thus my death would serve the greater purposes of Kira. By announcing your intentions in this way you provide Kira with the ability to nurture this fallacious belief without exerting himself, and perhaps move on to condemn you in the eyes of the others for your destructive actions. It would require little effort on his part, as one or even many will surely pursue this course of action after you so brazenly attempted to use it in "Mass Effect", where the fault of such thing was quite clearly exposed to you.

True, although there is a forty percent, no wait , 39 % chance, that i prodded you with it you gauge your immediate reaction to one of my "janky reads." By asserting my intention outright I let you know, and the rest of the people know that i neither fear your abilities, nor am intimidated by the prospect of dredging up an entire thread to make a push on you, most town seem to think it's alright to sit on them thumbs until someone states a read they themselves already had, this is detrimental to town, however I will be the one to stick his neck out , if Kira decides to try to sway or influence that I can only deal with that as it comes.

Some would see your inability to learn this lesson as a deliberate push to end the life of a strong opponent of Kira... because you are Kira. Others still may sense the naivety in such actions, but then draw the conclusion that you are pushing it forth as a false face of foolishness, allowing you to pursue actions that serve Kira without righteous retribution -- retribution they will be willing to provide. Somewhere within this bog of nonsense Kira would hide, laughing and indistinguishable, as you orchestrate first my demise and then your own.

Also true, although some would realize the distinction between a serious read and push, and a light hearted reaction jab, I also doubt that any sole person could orchestrate your demise, a concerted effort more likely would be the right course of action to tackle your intent behind what i could label as a "posturing posting style" but which with both know is not case, as this running analysis seems more edged to be humorous, despite the serious tone, the consistent theme of the post itself undermines your intent.

Assuming myself to be a proper opponent of Kira would provide a roughly sixty-seven percent chance of being correct, but may lead you to confusion at key moments that would not be present if you were not acting on such baseless assumptions. It may also cause you to be more vulnerable to deception if I am, in fact, Kira -- both through this confusion and other such self-imposed machinations of foolhardiness.

It is a very simple matter to see that the common wisdom of treating all potential suspects as equals prior to the application of any logical scrutiny is the best path toward success, so long as you are not too feeble to navigate these suspects with graceful consideration and deduction rather than emotions, convenient folk "wisdom", and other such nearly-supernatural silliness.

Except i already have done , and in fact do as such, sadly, you do not see the fact that you yourself believe in the ideal that my reads come from anything but deliberated analysis, and sometimes incorrect meta analysis in addition , you yourself have fallen into the same trap you chastise me for, thus clouding your vision and allowing me, as an reasonably intelligent player who notices this, to pander to it or pander using it.

The suspicion that my reads are too left field o be right works nicely in any number of situations, to numerous to lay out for you. Please return with an analysis of why i might choose to take a jab at your hydra as a whole , rather than immediately allow it's persona to develop publicly and then take a stab , possibly a humorous one, at the co inhabitants of said hydra.

 

[Evil Eye]

that made me realize how boring Death Note would have been if anyone ever disagreed with or rebutted L after he does his thing lol