Debate Hall Reform Ideas (PG re-post)

[KrazyGlue]

Copied from the DH as requested by Dre.

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In our social group, the members of the debate hall gathered ideas on how to improve activity in this room. The following is what we came up with.

Debate Hall Reform Ideas​

DEBATER ACCEPTANCE REFORM

1. Remove the proving grounds. We the debaters believe that the current system paralyzes debate hall activity. Many solid proving grounds members who have gathered the support of debate hall members are left stuck in the proving grounds. Beyond being very discouraging to the person not being admitted, debate hall members feel ignored. Also, the proving grounds may intimidate some members of the site, and they may feel they have no chance of being accepted into the debate hall. Additionally, some members may be capable of making intelligent, insightful comments but may wish to do so sparingly, which gives them no chance of making through the proving grounds.
2. The new system should allow anyone who applies to the debate hall to be accepted (although some discretion may be used if the member clearly has a history of receiving infractions). They will be evaluated based on their performance immediately following their acceptance. If it is determined that they are struggling and/or unintentionally holding back other debaters from advancing discussion, they may be assigned to be mentored by the more experienced debaters. If a member is intentionally interfering with debates through breaking global rules such as posting spam, flaming, trolling, etc., they will be removed from the debate hall. They will be able to reapply in one month (or possibly a lesser or greater amount of time depending on the offense). A “three strikes” system may be implemented. That is, if a member is removed from the debate hall three times for disorderly conduct, they will not be allowed to reapply. Strict moderation should be enforced in order to make it clear that the Debate Hall is intended to be a serious place.
3. If a new debater is struggling and/or is unintentionally preventing other debaters from advancing discussion at a reasonable pace, they should be mentored by a more experienced debater. There will be a “Mentoring Thread” in which the struggling debater will practice against more experienced members to hone their skills and receive advice on how to improve. When they have improved, they may post in the rest of the threads.
4. We realize that through this new system, the quality of the posts in the debate hall will need to be monitored more. We will hold our members to certain posting quality standards, which if broken could result in a warning or suspension for the offender. Posting quality refers to making posts with substance, a certain level of grammar and spelling, maintaining a mature and generally serious tone, courtesy towards others, remaining calm, and several other factors. Below are some examples of posts that would not meet the quality standards:

a. THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS ISSUE! WE NEED TO STOP THE OIL SPILL AND MAKE BP PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
b. You’re being ridiculous. I’m increasingly convinced that you have no idea what you are talking about.
c. That’s what she said.
d. well theres an oil spill in mexico and stuff so i dont know but they got to stop it before it comes to us​

5. There should be a guidelines thread that explicitly elaborates on these rules so they are clear to all new members.​

 


IDEAS OR EVENTS TO INCREASE ACTIVITY

1. The current events thread may be retried. We may need to adjust the idea, but repetitive events may help people keep ties with the debate hall. We may also retry the idea of debate contests.
2. The Archives should be re-integrated into the Debate Hall. We the debaters don’t see any reason why these topics shouldn’t be eligible for bumping if there is a relevant reason for doing so.
3. We believe that the system described under the “Debater Acceptance Reform” system will increase activity by making the debate hall more accessible and attracting more members.
4. We the debaters request that we have active moderators to help carry out this plan.
5. A Debate Hall Activities Thread may be made. This thread would provide debate challenges or contests that are both enjoyable and intellectual. Sucumbio is quoted below explaining some of the activities that could be a part of this thread.
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All comments, questions, and concerns are welcome.

 

[Dre89]

Thanks Krazy.

So is the idea that they/we (I don't know if I'm going to get automatically promoted or not) go on trial for awhile in the actual DH thread, then get the DH title if successful?

 

[KrazyGlue]

No, under the new system you would just be accepted as a debater. The only difference is new members are on "probation" meaning they'll be monitored closely for posting quality and maintaining a certain level of activity. They can be relegated to the Mentoring thread if they were found to be struggling, but that would be a fairly rare case.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah that's what I was meant to say but I probably worded it wrong. So do they get the title after they're accepted?

If so, will the current PGers have to go through the probation period?

 

[Mewter]

You probably won't be monitored that heavily, Dre.
Don't worry.

 

[Lore]

As I have said in the group, these are all great ideas.

However, I definitely remember a rule against posting less than once every two weeks or so in the old debate hall. Is there any chance that it is coming back?

If so, I'm definitely against it. It tries to force activity, it encourages quick and unrelated posts to meet the requirement, and it punishes people who suddenly lose their internet access.

 

[CRASHiC]

However, I definitely remember a rule against posting less than once every two weeks or so in the old debate hall. Is there any chance that it is coming back?

I agree with this, I don't feel like posting if I have nothing to contribute to the conversation going on. Goldshadow is probably amongst the fewest frequent posters in the Debate Hall, but his post are easily worth the most amongst the debate hall. Quality not quantity is what separates Debate Hall debates apart from Pool Room debates.

 

[Sieguest]

I agree with you werekill, the two week no posting limit does seem detrimental. But I don't think the idea of a no posting time limit should be scrapped, just modified. I think that if it can be shown that a user has logged on frequently within the past month, and they haven't posted in the debate hall, that they should be reminded to do so whenever they have the chance at some point, and if the absence continues that they are removed, unless they have good reason for not posting.

 

[BSP]

The list is coming along nicely. I like all of the current ideas. I agree with Werekill on not having a minimum posting requirement, but if we must have one, it should be decently long to avoid the problems mentioned. I don't think one will be required, since if you made it past the probation period, you should be able to post intelligently.

Also, interest in topics should be considered. What I mean is that a person could be capable of posting well, and has proven it, but is simply not interested in the current topics being discussed. In here, it's agreed that not posting at all would be better than making a bad post, correct?

Edit- Crashic beat me to it, but my point is still clear.

 

[Lore]

Also, will the probation period have some sort of posting requirement? It's really the only part of the DH that should have one since we don't want people joining for only the awesome pink name.

Banning posting in color would be a good thing to do too. I love posting in Plum, but I don't use it in here because of how annoying it is for other people to quote specific points.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Good ideas guys! I'm glad to see a lot of discussion is going on!

1) As for a posting requirement, there will definitely be one. It won't be something ridiculous like having to post once a week. But if someone is posting 10 times a day on SWF but no times in the last 2 months in the DH, they clearly just wanted the title. I believe that a good system can be developed that supports the likes of GoldShadow but removes people who gain access simply for the title.

2) Yes, probation will have a stricter posting requirement. A member should probably post at least 3-5 times while on probation so we have general idea of their skills and intentions.

3) Current PGers should go through the probation period. Don't worry Dre, you'll be fine.

4) Yes, mariobrouser, posting interesting topics is a concern. Unfortunately there's not much we can do about that other than encouraging members to look for or think of good topics.

5) Werekill, the no color idea might be implemented on some level. This shouldn't be some crazy totalitarian law that forces everyone to post the same. All the available fonts are easily readable for sure. As for colors, we'll just say it has to be something easily readable. Many debaters, such as Riddle and RDK, have posted in color before and I see no problem with it as long as it isn't annoying to read. For instance, this color is ok and this one is not.


Great ideas guys! Keep 'em coming!

 

[Dre89]

I like the new reforms but I just have one question- how is all this going to increase activity?

1. If alot of people were interested in joining the DH, but then left because of the DH system, we would still have a truckload of PGers coming through, but we don't.

2. Even if these new reforms would potentially entice new debaters, how are they even going to know about the reforms? Do you guys plan on 'advertising' it in some manner?

 

[Sucumbio]

I like the new reforms but I just have one question- how is all this going to increase activity?

1. If alot of people were interested in joining the DH, but then left because of the DH system, we would still have a truckload of PGers coming through, but we don't.

2. Even if these new reforms would potentially entice new debaters, how are they even going to know about the reforms? Do you guys plan on 'advertising' it in some manner?

Well what started all this was the lack of moderator support. True it may not seem like the PG is teaming with members but of course we must consider the fact that a.) the creation of the PG stunted the DH in the first place (this was the desired effect, but it went too far) b.) mods are required to even allow access to the PG.

I cannot tell because I am not a mod, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are some SWF members who have recently applied to get into the PG who are still waiting for a mod to click a button.

When you add the lack of Mod activity to the stigma the DH has, etc ... basically you get what we have now.

The purpose of these reforms is indeed to stimulate activity, but all of it first requires moderator support. With that in place, even if everything stayed the same we'd technically get "more activity" because posters would be admitted to the DH/PG in a timely manner instead of languishing for weeks/months.

 

[KrazyGlue]

I like the new reforms but I just have one question- how is all this going to increase activity?

1. If alot of people were interested in joining the DH, but then left because of the DH system, we would still have a truckload of PGers coming through, but we don't.

As Sucumbio said, we WANT a truckload of PGers to come through, but they're not being accepted into the DH even with our support. There have been many solid PGers that are now inactive because they were tired of waiting to be accepted into the DH. Also Sucumbio made a good point that there may be some people who haven't even been accepted into the PG yet.

2. Even if these new reforms would potentially entice new debaters, how are they even going to know about the reforms? Do you guys plan on 'advertising' it in some manner?

It's not a matter of spreading the word, I don't think. Although we could do that, I think enough people apply as it is to make the DH an active place if they were all accepted. But that's a great idea if we accept everyone and we still don't have enough debaters. Now that I think of it, there would be one noticeable change. The User Handbook in the Smashboards Information Center would be adjusted; right now it says you have to apply to the PG, but it would be changed to an explanation of our system. We could probably also make a thread in the pool room if necessary.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

It's not a matter of spreading the word, I don't think. Although we could do that, I think enough people apply as it is to make the DH an active place if they were all accepted. But that's a great idea if we accept everyone and we still don't have enough debaters. Now that I think of it, there would be one noticeable change. The User Handbook in the Smashboards Information Center would be adjusted; right now it says you have to apply to the PG, but it would be changed to an explanation of our system. We could probably also make a thread in the pool room if necessary.

Heck, if worst comes to worst, I'm sure we could persuade an admin to make an announcement right? I'm thinking CK would probably be the one to ask...

 

[KrazyGlue]

I was about to say that too, but the Announcements forum is really intended for general site changes that affect everyone. That and MLG promotions.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

You can post announcements in certain forums only. They don't show up in the Announcements forum at the top of the page, and only affect the room(s) that they are posted in.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Yes, but because he referenced "admins" and CK, I assumed he meant the announcements forum, since moderators, not just admins, can post single-room announcements. Yes, we could have an announcement posted in the DH, and it certainly couldn't hurt, but a member would have to visit the DH in the first place to even see it. Plus I get the feeling that since announcements are in tiny boxes at the top of the screen, nobody takes much notice of them. But like I said, it can't hurt, so I suppose it's worth a try.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

You can post announcements in certain forums only. They don't show up in the Announcements forum at the top of the page, and only affect the room(s) that they are posted in.

That'd be the sort of thing we want, if we really need announcements. But then again, we hopefully wont need to resort to that sort of thing.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Well in order for that to go into place, we need moderators to see this in the first place.

 

[TheMike]

I think that if the Debate Hall were a private room, people might increase their interest in joining the group.

 

[Dre89]

The problem with it being private is that the PGers quit out of frustration after awhile of not being admitted.

 

[BSP]

By the way, do we have some any information on when this update will take place?

 

[TheMike]

The problem with it being private is that the PGers quit out of frustration after awhile of not being admitted.

I see, but what I thought is that if the room is private, people don't know what's going on. However, when not private, people know that the room isn't active and might lost interest in joining the group.

I don't want to cheat at anyone, but with more people trying to know what happens in the Debate Hall, they might post more if they get admitted.

 

[BSP]

Well, from one person's prospective, the PG being private did not influence my decision to apply for temp. debator at all.

The PG isn't really a bad idea theoretically, but it must have a lot of participation, active moderation, and active debates. With lots of participation, you get lots of threads going, and chances to see everyone's debating skills. With moderation, more PGers get let in more frequently, AND more PGers become DHers, which is a real problem right now. In addition to this, if a mentoring thread were added, it would help PGers know what they're doing wrong, and how they can improve to get into the DH.

The biggest problem with this one is the lack of activity. If it had more, some guidance and updates, and some active moderation, it would probably be fine.

Off Topic: How much would posting in the center stage help to get into the DH for the time being?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

May I suggest you guys read what's gone on recently in here lately (especially CK and EE), so you know what's in store for the DH/PG.

 

[Dre89]

Mariobrouser PM Evil Eye asking to be admitted, that's how I got in. He'll check to see if the DHers think you're worthy first.

 

[Lore]

I see, but what I thought is that if the room is private, people don't know what's going on. However, when not private, people know that the room isn't active and might lost interest in joining the group.

I don't want to cheat at anyone, but with more people trying to know what happens in the Debate Hall, they might post more if they get admitted.

The main reason that the Debate Hall isn't active is because there aren't many people being let in. As more people get accepted, the activity problem will solve itself.

Anyway, I've literally been in the PG since it was created (I only posted sporadically in here after being kicked out of the main Hall for a stupid post; I made the post when I was really tired), so I don't mind waiting a bit longer.

 

[Dre89]

Just PM Evil Eye, he should let you in if you've been in here for so long.

 

[Chaco]

This reform is simply going back to what was successful before the Proving Grounds were implemented.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Except that we're keeping the PG.

 

[Crimson King]

Thoughts on me using AdminCP to purge the DH registry? I think I can get it to work now, and I want the new DH to be as easy to take over as possible.

What's the criteria you all want?

 

[KrazyGlue]

I'm confused, CK. What would "purging the DH registry" do?

 

[Crimson King]

Clear the inactives who just wanted it for the title. There is a glitch with mods where if they do it, they have to go one at a time, and refresh the page. I SHOULD be able to do it from the AdminCP.

 

[KrazyGlue]

It would be fine to do that for people who haven't posted in a month, I suppose. The only problem I foresee occurring is if someone has a valid excuse for not posting for a while. So if you can purge people after a certain time of inactivity but can create exceptions, that would be good.

 

[Crimson King]

I don't really care what the criteria is, and it isn't hard to readd someone, I just think cleaning up before someone else takes the mantle is necessary.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Sounds like a fine idea to me. People who only joined for the title don't deserve to be in.

 

[Lore]

Sounds like a fine idea to me. People who only joined for the title don't deserve to be in.

Exactly.

Will you need some people to look at the lists like last time, CK? I'd be happy to help, and this time I know for sure that I'll have enough time to do it.

 

[RDK]

I don't really care what the criteria is, and it isn't hard to readd someone, I just think cleaning up before someone else takes the mantle is necessary.

Since a lot of the old regulars have stopped posting for some time due to the inactivity I think it'd be fair if we set the purge dropoff at about a year ago.

That way members who are still interested in posting but only left because of inactivity still have a chance to come back, and the people who just joined for the title get cut.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Give me one reason why people who stopped posting because this place was inactive should be able to stay in. That's almost encouraging inactivity.