Dealing with Wario's weaknesses Current Discussion :Range Problems D:

[Atria]

Pffft, the only thing I'm good at is giving definitions... -_- Yeah, I'm kinda stumped on this whole priority thing myself. I've tried searching, but I don't actually know what gives a move it's priority to begin with... Anyone know?

 

[Browny]

ffs...

People, do something for me.

Get an attack like snake utilt to hit someone. take notice of how there is a massive hitbox NOT attached to his body. you can fit 2 sandbags inbetween the gap. Now get kirbys bair to hit someone. notice how you have to actually hit the sandbag with kirbys feet to hit it? Kirbys bair is not disjointed at all when you look at is this way. but you have to consider that his hurtbox does NOT extend with his feet. you can not simply attack kirbys bair with your own attack, kirbys bair will almost always beat your attack out completely.

This is not a case of 'high priority', its simply the fact that you can not hit kirby, while he can hit you.

the game doesnt do some sort of calculation where two attacks collide and it calculates which attack has a higher priority before determining which will win. it is simply a combination of range, speed and disjointedness. kirbys bair is not 'high priority' (no attack in the air is high priority), it simply has an enormous disjoint that you cant actually see. in contrast to snakes utilt which is clearly disjointed

 

[Gichan]

So it seems it is settled, now we should look for the most dsjointed moves, or at least the most annoying ones, and list them.

Ones I can think of;
Snake's ftilt
" utilt
Kirby's bair
Sonic's usmash
" side b moves (? I feel this one is)
Iceclimbers uair
Dedede's bair
Samus' dair
" fair
Metaknigt's dsma-- **** it all his moves, lawlz
Olimar's fair, bair, smashes
ROB's f-and-dsmashes, and nair
Peach's dsmash, fair, dair
Ganondorf Dair, Utilt, and Dtilt.
Mario Upsmash, Utilt. Down-B.

That's all I cna think of, oh eyah someone mentioned Lucas. we should list these in the OP so people can know what characters have disjointed ****, this way people with no experience against a char knows what to look out for. Or we can even talk of ways to avoid it, or find what moves of ours out-prioritizes it. Opinions?

 

[Atria]

Oh wait...I've found something quite useful that I think most of you would be quite interested to read about. From what I found, priority only affects GROUNDED characters. When 2 aerial attacks collide with each other, they will trade hits with each other regardless of priority. The only factor that comes into this situation is the speed of both character's aerials because obviously, the faster one will strike first. I also found that more damaging attacks generally have high priority to them. I'm not too sure about specials however because they can both be used in the air AND on the ground. I'll keep searching...

 

[:mad:]

Frankly, the OP won't get much better. The person that's running the thread... isn't that good with any of this stuff, he doesn't even use Wario.

Lucas has some major disjoints.

 

[Gichan]

Okay, I'll keep updating my post with the "disjointed" or "annoylingly disjointed" moves, that way he can post it. So what others you got in mind straked?

 

[:mad:]

I feel as though I've neglected the Wario boards...

I'm gonna go ahead and say Ganondorf, ROB, and Peach have very notable disjoints. You know of any others? Besides that, Mario's full of em'.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Frankly, the OP won't get much better. The person that's running the thread... isn't that good with any of this stuff, he doesn't even use Wario.

Lucas has some major disjoints.

I do use Wario thank you very much <_<.


I will post some info later.

 

[Gichan]

How does Ganon have a disjoint? The dair?
ROB I'm assuming, is his f-and-dsmashes, and nair
Peach's dsmash, fair, dair
Mario's...utilt?

 

[:mad:]

How does Ganon have a disjoint? The dair?
ROB I'm assuming, is his f-and-dsmashes, and nair
Peach's dsmash, fair, dair
Mario's...utilt?

Ganondorf Dair, Utilt, and Dtilt.
ROB Nair, yup.
Peach, you got it.

Mario Upsmash, Utilt. Down-B.

Matt, you and I both know you're no good with threads.

 

[Gichan]

Should we talk about how to avoid them? Or how to deal with them?

Like I mentioned before I think it better to shield them then attempt to out-prioritize them. I also think that if we are hit with one of these moves we should just back away instead of trying to punish it. What do you guys think?

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Matt, you and I both know you're no good with threads.

I feel like your being more personal, the thread ,I believe, was a good idea.

Should we talk about how to avoid them? Or how to deal with them?

Like I mentioned before I think it better to shield them then attempt to out-prioritize them. I also think that if we are hit with one of these moves we should just back away instead of trying to punish it. What do you guys think?

Well, we cannot always shield. We may get grabbed if we do.

 

[:mad:]

It was a good idea, but you just stole another character board's idea. Also, you don't maintain it very well. Just some careful critique. Nothing to cry over, ll.

How are we gonna get grabbed? o_o
Explain that to me.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

It was a good idea, but you just stole another character board's idea. Also, you don't maintain it very well. Just some careful critique. Nothing to cry over, ll.

How are we gonna get grabbed? o_o
Explain that to me.

What board is that?

Anyways, I said that shielding MAY get you grabbed.

 

[:mad:]

What board is that?

Anyways, I said that shielding MAY get you grabbed.

Pit boards had this long before you stole it, lol. No big deal, it's like the confessions threads.

And I ask again, what disjointed moves can your opponent grab you out of?

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Well, I am not talking about a disjointed move. I am talking about a normal grab. If they know you will shield, they can just attempt to grab you. Of course I never said it would work 100% of the time, but its something to keep in mind.

Also, I never go to the Pit boards. <_<

 

[:mad:]

I need examples. You have no evidence. If I were to Snake Utilt, I couldn't grab if they shielded. MK Tornado, can't grab if they shield. It works 0% of the time.

Please, discussionss. >___>

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

I am talking about them faking you out. They won't just use the attack and go for the grab if you shield.

Some however are easy to see coming like GW's Bair.

Speaking of Bair, how do you get past it?

 

[t3h n00b]

If you don't have a full shield, you could try running away. Like literally running away. Bair>shield.

 

[mkGmoney]

just do the robot for 7 min's

 

[Gichan]

If you wait long enough, like after five hits, you can grab it. As for Snake's utilt, seems like you just gotta run away, even if you go for a fair out of shield, the utilt is fast enough to hit you before your fair connects. or you can try to brave it and go for a running powershiled to nair or grab.

 

[KrazyGlue]

As for Snake's utilt, seems like you just gotta run away, even if you go for a fair out of shield, the utilt is fast enough to hit you before your fair connects. or you can try to brave it and go for a running powershiled to nair or grab.

I think if you place yourself well enough, you can hold a bite in the air and when your mouth comes into contact with snake's foot on his utilt, you'll chomp him up. I'm not sure if the timing is possible though... I might go try it out.

 

[t3h n00b]

That sounds right, but you would probably take the damage as well since bite has grab priority. If that's the case, I don't know if it would be worth it or not. I have no idea how much damage Snake's utilt deals- when I get hit by it, I'm usually at 0% again

 

[Gichan]

Yo, when is the next discussion? This is a good thread.

 

[:mad:]

Pretty sure the person that's running it can't maintain this thread.
It might never start back up.

 

[PhantomX]

Who are you to talk, Straked!? You have the Wario Back Room and now I can't add members or anything -_-

 

[:mad:]

Maybe if you said "Hey, Straked! I decided to add more Warios to the back room, can you add these people? -insertlist-"



I'll skim through and add some people.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Well, I thought everyone forgot about this <_<.

It can start if someone can mention something, or I can think of a new idea.

How about landing the kill move. Wario can have some trouble of killing sometimes. (SOMETIMES).

 

[t3h n00b]

After I kill a Wario online, they respawn and spam fsmash. It works half the time -_-

 

[Gichan]

^

LOILOLOL, or a waft!

How about discussing not having any priority such as in cases of Luigi, or even MK?

 

[:mad:]

Yeah, that works too! We also might need a range discussion.

 

[Gichan]

the range should be next now that I think of it.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

I guess range will do.

Now I need to summarize and quote the discussion, as soon as I have time.

 

[Gichan]

So SSJ5, you are going to sumarize the discussion on disjointed hitboxes right?

remember to include this small list that came up from the discussion:

Snake's ftilt
" utilt
Kirby's bair
Sonic's usmash
" side b moves (? I feel this one is)
Iceclimbers uair
Dedede's bair
Samus' dair
" fair
Metaknigt's dsma-- **** it all his moves, lawlz
Olimar's fair, bair, smashes
ROB's f-and-dsmashes, and nair
Peach's dsmash, fair, dair
Ganondorf Dair, Utilt, and Dtilt.
Mario Upsmash, Utilt. Down-B.



Now for range problems; Wario does not have good horizontal aerial range, that is the fundamental weakness of his approach game. but if one thinks of it, he has good ground range with a dtilt that can beat out MK's dtilt, and a beastly ftilt. It may not be the best range, but it's pretty decent when one needs to mix in a playstyle. I also forgot to mention jab. But these ground moves are relatively slow in either start or finish, which is a slight problem, as dtilt may be punished with something if it does not connect.

but what to do with these moves against someone who still outranges these moves? Bairs, I find are surprisingly good for spacing against Marths, or even MKs. It has some pretty good range due to Wario's movement (but due to his movement in the air, not because of the move itself). One can consider airdodging into these characters but they know they are leaving you open with that option. What I find the solution has to be, is to frustrate them with something that is suppose to bother us and make it seem like it doesn't work, then them to fight our ground range and hit some. The character will then feel that the matchup isn't in their favour. Let's say we are playing a Marth, I think I recall someone saying that if the Marth does not space the second fair properly, a Wario can fair before the second one. This will make the Marth feel he is losing that option. then we can force the jab to grab, dtilt to fair, etc.

So our answer lies in mindgames against these characters. to make their moves feel useless. But what of a situation where you can't do that...dashing powershield grabs? Then attempt to throw them off stage to commence the ****, uinless the char is ****ing MK.

Anyways, I gott go back to my homework.

 

[smashkng]

Wario can also detroy his bike to use the wheels as projectiles, a way have ranged game.

 

[Gichan]

What happened to this thread?

I guess the answer to range problems is making the opponent feel incompetent with their range and the tires?

 

[Sasha]

I recently picked up Wario as a secondary, and overcoming his range issues doesn't seem to be a problem. His aerial speed and ridiculous DI allow him to bait and punish most attacks, even attacks without a whole lot of lag (i.e. Marth's f-air). All that needs to be overcome is the timing of the hitbox and making sure to land either behind the opponent or far enough away so they can't hit you afterwards. This is just a matter of practice and learning character match-ups though.

 

[tRoll King]

Mindgames
/thread

lol jk, but seriously, spacing and using his insane acceleration should overcome any attack that might outrange him. Space and punish, name of the game right there

 

[smashkng]

Wario's range isn't so problematic. He has amazing speed and very good priority to overcome this.

 

[godslafco]

Smart technical play with Wario can overcome just about any 'range' issues. Baiting is a great way to set up for better situations and his ability to reposition in almost any situation is wonderful.