An obstacle I have right now is against a certain friend of mine that plays Sheik. We both know i'm the better player, but he has the W's over me in friendlies and in tournaments. He sports a very lame, east coast play style and abuses d throw > tech chases all day. I do my best to mix up my techs, but at this point he knows all of my mix ups. I need help in beating him. I can win on my FD cp, but I can't win anywhere else. Help me.
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Dealing with a lame Sheik
- Thread starter Nishifue
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bebep
Smash Rookie
I too struggle with this match up. The best advice I can really give you is to not get grabbed. Which is easier said than done. However, you understand how he plays so you ultimately know his stratagy. Use this to your advantage and bait out grabs and punish accordingly. If you do get grabbed you just need to hope he messes up, sadly. But I doubt he has a perfect reaction on tech chasing though. I hope this helped at all
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protato
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2014
- Messages
- 127
purposely missing a tech and SDI'ing their jab up to get out of jab resets is another option you can implement into your game to escape tech chases
its easier to play against sheik if you work on your punish game and play more like a weiner but still applying pressure
its easier to play against sheik if you work on your punish game and play more like a weiner but still applying pressure
His tech chasing is not perfect, but he's pretty good at reacting. As for knowing his strategy, I do know some of his tendencies, but the real only problem is approaching, maybe I should jc grab more often idk.
If I miss a tech he'll simply dash attack > whatever aerial and if i'm 100% or more GG.I don't think he even knows how to jab reset so I don't have to worry about sdi'ing out of it. My punish game is fine, and i don't think playing like a weiner is going to help me. Seriously, since when have you ever heard of a lame Falcon?
TheWeis
Smash Cadet
So he doesn't know how to jab reset but you don't know how to get out of his tech chase
It's not that I don't know it's just he knows my mix ups from playing me a lot and he's good at reactionary tech chases.
タオー
Smash Journeyman
Missed tech to roll is a decent mix up if they know how to cover your techroll distance. It's risky but it can get you out of pressure that is too predictable. Be more conscious of your tech habits. Reaction tech chasing can be hard to break free from, but reaction tech chasing is also difficult to execute consistently.
BauxFalcon
Smash Apprentice
How not to get grabbed:
Run back and forth
Back air a lot
Pivot aerials
If you get grabbed:
Do the mango (just spazz your control stick everywhere when teching)
Occasionally miss a tech
Run back and forth
Back air a lot
Pivot aerials
If you get grabbed:
Do the mango (just spazz your control stick everywhere when teching)
Occasionally miss a tech
Sounds pretty flowcharty lol. So I played my friend yesterday in friendlies a bunch. Umm ya approaching is bad lol, but there are times where he forces me to go in. That's just how the MU is lol. I'm think bout pocketing sheik. I have an easier time dealing with him as long as he's a g bout the cg. We played friendlies only for the sheik ditto so idk if he'll cg in tourneys or not.
BauxFalcon
Smash Apprentice
You can't approach in this MU.
Unless this sheik does something really stupid, in which case, go for it.
Your only damage is going to be punishes.
I used to have a hard time with sheik, and would opt for the sheik ditto, but now I know how to handle the MU
So I faced him again in losers at a local today. Tried out Sheik dittos and got trashed on 1st game. Switched back to Falcon for 2nd game and did a little bit better (game came down to last stock), but still got 0-2 in the end. Probs sticking to Falcon from now on.
If he's consistently beats you and you can't see interactions outside of the punish game (read, stop asking how to get out of tech chases and learn how to play neutral properly and not get grabbed) he's probably the better player
Don't nair and knee mindlessly and you won't get down thrown
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Maybe I should record my matches so you guys have a better clue what i'm talking about lol.
Really dude? Whatever. BTW I saw you play FrootLoop at GSATF the other day lol.
He's not the better player trust me. I don't approach mindlessly, Falcon has little approach anyways and I can't just NOT approach when he's throwing needles at me. I think his neutrals getting a lot better although i'm still better than him at it lol.
But he's beating you, and you're just eating needles. That means he's controlling neutral, and you're probably just letting him do what he wants instead of putting pressure on him. At the very least understand that if he got a full needle charge without you taking stage control from him you probably just messed up.
Don't categorize things as "east coast" or "lame," just pick the correct choices because they are the optimal one. You don't have to be aggressive vs shiek, have some patience. you only need to win neutral 4 times to take the game, so don't feel like there's a stigma against waiting. Play to your characters strengths.
Don't categorize things as "east coast" or "lame," just pick the correct choices because they are the optimal one. You don't have to be aggressive vs shiek, have some patience. you only need to win neutral 4 times to take the game, so don't feel like there's a stigma against waiting. Play to your characters strengths.
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Idk maybe I have a mind block when playing against him. I remember sending a guy to losers, then soon after I went to losers, lost to the Sheik, then soon after he loses to the guy I sent to losers lol. I don't think it's Sheik, it's my friend lol.
TheWeis
Smash Cadet
Is it possible to ban Laudandus from the falcon forums? He clearly isn't here to contribute.
Luno896
Smash Rookie
this is my favorite thread
"Falcon has little approach options" = what happens when everyone compares their character to a spacie
What character besides Fox/Falco has better approach options than Falcon? He has like the ****ing fastest dash-n-run in the game combined with a massive nair, anti-air uair, sex-kick knee, and cc-destroying dair. If he makes any one of these moves work out, he kills someone with his approach.
"But it's not safe" = **** yes approaching is not safe and that is honestly how the game works. Spacies are like the best characters in the game and they still get scared to approach because oh yah DD grab -> 0 to death works wonders on them.
If you're giving Sheik enough space to comfortably charge needles without feeling threatened by nair/knee/dair/grab, you are being bad. DD in a range to threaten Sheik with an aerial/grab and pay attention to his reactions. If he's trying to needle you in these positions, run in with an aerial and **** him up. If he ftilts in this spot, bait it and grab him and **** him up. If he tries a hail mary dash attack, bait it, shield grab him, and **** him up.
Throw in missed tech into your tech mixups, you are being very stupid if you don't. If you don't, tech-chasing Falcon is stupidly easy for Sheik because grab on reaction works every time, but with missed tech you can SDI jab up and the most any Sheik can do is read it and try to usmash it on a READ. Keep in mind you can also DI the actual throw to make it harder for her to get the spacing on her throw followup. Like, is the Sheik player you're playing against Mew2king? No? Stop ******** about what is probably a very subpar punish game and learn to deal.
P.S. What specific issues are you having on platform stages?
What character besides Fox/Falco has better approach options than Falcon? He has like the ****ing fastest dash-n-run in the game combined with a massive nair, anti-air uair, sex-kick knee, and cc-destroying dair. If he makes any one of these moves work out, he kills someone with his approach.
"But it's not safe" = **** yes approaching is not safe and that is honestly how the game works. Spacies are like the best characters in the game and they still get scared to approach because oh yah DD grab -> 0 to death works wonders on them.
If you're giving Sheik enough space to comfortably charge needles without feeling threatened by nair/knee/dair/grab, you are being bad. DD in a range to threaten Sheik with an aerial/grab and pay attention to his reactions. If he's trying to needle you in these positions, run in with an aerial and **** him up. If he ftilts in this spot, bait it and grab him and **** him up. If he tries a hail mary dash attack, bait it, shield grab him, and **** him up.
Throw in missed tech into your tech mixups, you are being very stupid if you don't. If you don't, tech-chasing Falcon is stupidly easy for Sheik because grab on reaction works every time, but with missed tech you can SDI jab up and the most any Sheik can do is read it and try to usmash it on a READ. Keep in mind you can also DI the actual throw to make it harder for her to get the spacing on her throw followup. Like, is the Sheik player you're playing against Mew2king? No? Stop ******** about what is probably a very subpar punish game and learn to deal.
P.S. What specific issues are you having on platform stages?
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I've been gone for a while so i'm gonna try my best to reply to everyone.
That's pretty obvious. The guy posted 1 comment to me and already i don't like the guy lol.
Is this real life????? All I wanted to do was to get advice to play against my friend. Laudandus if you're reading this you should take Weis's advice and stay off the Falcon forums. You obviously have nothing good to say here.
ban me
Well you have a lot to say lol. I wasn't comparing Falcons approach to Fox's, I was comparing Falcon's to Sheik's. I understand i'm not the best player, but you don't have to be rude to me like saying i'm stupid for apparently teching all of his d throws. I'm OK with constructive criticism, but you can be a little bit nicer tbh.
0 respect for a player who comes to basically ***** online about character johns and brush off legitimate advice because "my friend just knows all my habits hurr durr."
Give your Sheik friend props. If you are losing to your supposedly worse Sheik friend, recognize that you are doing something wrong and he is capitalizing on it instead of crying about how lame he plays.
Also, I recommend next time really pay close attention to what options you are choosing in neutral/escaping tech chases and how you are getting punished every single time. Did you nair into a ftilt? Did you nair into wavedash back -> grab? Did you get caught out of dash-dance by a dash attack? Note how you and your friend were zoning against each other and think about whether you did a smart/safe option in your position or if you could have done something better.
At the very least, you'll have more specific questions to ask that could help you improve.
Give your Sheik friend props. If you are losing to your supposedly worse Sheik friend, recognize that you are doing something wrong and he is capitalizing on it instead of crying about how lame he plays.
Also, I recommend next time really pay close attention to what options you are choosing in neutral/escaping tech chases and how you are getting punished every single time. Did you nair into a ftilt? Did you nair into wavedash back -> grab? Did you get caught out of dash-dance by a dash attack? Note how you and your friend were zoning against each other and think about whether you did a smart/safe option in your position or if you could have done something better.
At the very least, you'll have more specific questions to ask that could help you improve.
I'm not brushing off legit advice i'm literally taking everything you guys say and i'm trying to improve my game. I'm obviously not doing something right because i'm losing to him. Your criticism is actually helping me out, but everything I bolded is pretty disrespectful to me. I asked you nicely before, but you should stop with the insults.
TheWeis
Smash Cadet
Laudandus is a very good player but has a bad mindset. He thinks he should whine about how OP Falcon when he's playing an objectively better character.
This. Part of being a good smash player is being a good role model which is something he's not. Making a FB page on hating Falcon is the biggest character John I've ever seen and it's on Falcon, a character that isn't very broken and a character Sheik has an advantage on.
MTL Kyle
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2014
- Messages
- 269
You are not very smart, are you ? LOL
How is that not smart???? Sheik has the advantage on Falcon. That's a fact. Explain to me how that's a character john.
Falcon sucks, you can't win.
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Man I wish Falcon wasn't so terrible, so that I wouldn't have to severely outplay every Sheik I face... I played against Android in tournament, and he beat me 2-0, but I should have won, because I'm actually the better player, since I play Falcon.
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The constructive criticism is good and all, but what's with the triple post?
The tips are nice. If you have something else to say after posting, just edit your post.
Sorry man, I fixed all the posts.
Dude you're basically mocking all of us with your whiny bull****! You're making the Falcon community look like a bunch of menstruating 13-year olds with thyroid problems. You get solid advice from plenty of Falcons who have been doing this for years, and you pretty much **** on us for it. The Falcon-Sheik matchup is NOT that bad, but the WhineyDouche-HisFriend matchup is 20-80 because WhineyDouche doesn't understand that he needs to play it smart, and that he will literally only get hit if he jumps into her moves, or stays within her tilt/dash attack range.
"OMG I CAN'T APPROACH!!!"
That is right. YOU can't approach because your ability to space, fast fall and L-cancel is laughable. Don't tell me it's not, because if it wasn't, then you wouldn't be sitting behind your keyboard crying about Falcon who's "not very broken" lol. Falcon is broken af, and literally destroys half the Melee cast. He has 3 matchups that are slightly below even, and that's it.
Seriously, you don't get to whine about **** until you gain mastery of all this:
The Falcon trials: http://smashboards.com/threads/captain-falcon-trials-for-newer-and-expert-falcons.344677/
Tech skill trials: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vclHINyNDA
20GX stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93xR0lnMink
20GX stuff long version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAUVzXOct4o
Tech chasing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P72GQqvjIU
Wizzy Falcon tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPDJUpzul-U
There you pretty much have all the tools to become godlike with Falcon.
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MTL Kyle
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2014
- Messages
- 269
"IM LOSING THE MATCHES BECAUSE MY CHARACTER HINDERS ME, NOT BECAUSE IM NOT THE BETTER PLAYER"
Clearly a character john.
Learn how to play dude LMAO
Lol you d bags need to gtfo. You obviously you have nothing nice to say, calling me out like this. You talk smack behind a computer, go ahead and try saying this to someone irl you'd get slapped. You guys need to learn how to treat your peers with respect.
Of course I don't have anything nice to say, that's not the point of this forum. You asked for tips against Sheik, and you got plenty of good tips. I gave you six f****** links with easy to follow guides and good information. It's really f****** easy to just sit your *** down, and practice everything in those links like a madman. Do that, and you won't become the best player in the world, but you'll start understanding how you could potentially become that. The first step towards getting good, is understanding that the only reason you lose, is because you're not good enough. You don't see Armada saying he's actually the better player if he loses to Leffen and vice versa. To become good you gotta respect the game and you gotta respect other people's skill. None of the tips we can give you will help, unless you change that whiny attitude AND get godlike tech skill. Seriously whining about something, when you can't space your moves properly, is like moving to a different country and complaining about not being able to speak the language.
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