Dealing with a lame Sheik

[SazoonTheBoon]

lol what is this mess. You should really try being more humble and just accept that you're bad. I really don't mean that as an offence, because the first step to getting good is just to accept that fact. I know I'm pretty ****, and I embrace that and I use it as fuel to help motivate me to get better. Also calling a play style "lame" really isn't helping because you're not really looking for ways around that "lameness" and you're just looking at sheik falcon as this unwinnable matchup. It's definitely far from that lol, even though off of one grab sheik can take a stock, falcon can do the same thing off of one stomp. Just practice your punish game and avoid doing stuff you'll get punished for. If you just practice a lot and learn more about the game I'm sure you'll be able to beat your friend

 

[Nishifue]

Of course I don't have anything nice to say, that's not the point of this forum. You asked for tips against Sheik, and you got plenty of good tips. I gave you six f****** links with easy to follow guides and good information. It's really f****** easy to just sit your *** down, and practice everything in those links like a madman. Do that, and you won't become the best player in the world, but you'll start understanding how you could potentially become that. The first step towards getting good, is understanding that the only reason you lose, is because you're not good enough. You don't see Armada saying he's actually the better player if he loses to Leffen and vice versa. To become good you gotta respect the game and you gotta respect other people's skill. None of the tips we can give you will help, unless you change that whiny attitude AND get godlike tech skill. Seriously whining about something, when you can't space your moves properly, is like moving to a different country and complaining about not being able to speak the language.

The majority of the links you gave me is stuff I already know. I love this game and respect it. You think I'm über bad at this game when I'm not. You better stop insulting me it's not cool. Also you should get off my thread since you admitted you have nothing nice to say.

 

[Nicco]

The majority of the links you gave me is stuff I already know. I love this game and respect it. You think I'm über bad at this game when I'm not. You better stop insulting me it's not cool. Also you should get off my thread since you admitted you have nothing nice to say.

You didn't make a thread called "Say nice things to me!", you made a thread asking for help against Sheik. If you know the majority of the stuff, then you shouldn't have a problem finding a way to beat this friend of yours. I don't understand how you can claim to know how to optimally tech chase with Falcon, and then complain about your Sheik friend tech chasing you optimally. Falcon can tech chase her just as easily, except you can even react to tech rolls with knees and stomps. You can chaingrab her if she doesn't DI your dthrow away, and you can air wobble her out of uthrow. Respect her pressure, and don't try to shieldgrab her auto-cancel fairs, unless you wanna die. Seriously just stop doing things that get you hit, and start doing thing that gets her hit, it's really not that complicated.

 

[Nishifue]

You didn't make a thread called "Say nice things to me!", you made a thread asking for help against Sheik. If you know the majority of the stuff, then you shouldn't have a problem finding a way to beat this friend of yours. I don't understand how you can claim to know how to optimally tech chase with Falcon, and then complain about your Sheik friend tech chasing you optimally. Falcon can tech chase her just as easily, except you can even react to tech rolls with knees and stomps. You can chaingrab her if she doesn't DI your dthrow away, and you can air wobble her out of uthrow. Respect her pressure, and don't try to shieldgrab her auto-cancel fairs, unless you wanna die. Seriously just stop doing things that get you hit, and start doing thing that gets her hit, it's really not that complicated.

I don't see anywhere in the thread name saying "please be a jerk and disrespect me" either. You should learn to have a level of respect with everyone. It's called common decency. Also you can maybe get 1 regrab on Sheik if you're lucky, not a chain grab lol. Knowing the MU and playing it are 2 different things. Advice doesn't have to be on the game itself, you could give me psychological advice on someone I obviously struggle with and have a mind block against.

 

[タオー]

Advice doesn't have to be on the game itself, you could give me psychological advice on someone I obviously struggle with and have a mind block against.

He is. Stop complaining. Accept that Melee is hard. Get over yourself and admit you have a lot of room for improvement. If you're struggling with this matchup, understand it is your fault. Own it. From there you can take responsibility of your actions and take control of the situation. Be like Falcon and learn to take a hit.

 

[Nicco]

I don't see anywhere in the thread name saying "please be a jerk and disrespect me" either. You should learn to have a level of respect with everyone. It's called common decency. Also you can maybe get 1 regrab on Sheik if you're lucky, not a chain grab lol. Knowing the MU and playing it are 2 different things. Advice doesn't have to be on the game itself, you could give me psychological advice on someone I obviously struggle with and have a mind block against.

I don't know why I keep giving you advice, but hopefully someone else can learn from it. Whenever I grab Sheik between 0 and 37% I dthrow, then dash as soon as possible and press X. During the time that I'm dashing forward and pressing X, I'm looking really careful at her DI and if she doesn't DI away I immediately press Z after X resulting in a JC grab, effectively chain grabbing her. If I notice she is DI'ing away, then I press R after X, resulting in a wavedash that will position me right where she lands. Right as I'm doing this, I'm basically scratching Z with my index finger, so I'm ready to grab her if she techs in place. If she techs in either direction, I dash after her and either JC grab, stomp or knee depending on how quickly I reacted.
If she misses the tech, I got my index finger ready by R and get ready to shieldgrab getup/getup attack, or run after her and grab if she rolls from the missed tech instead. If she DI's your throw in a way, so that she gets off stage, I cover a noob double jump with an aerial or tilt, but most Sheiks won't do this. Just give them the ledge and prepare to apply good corner pressure and space around her ledgedash options.
Seriously just look at how Wizzrobe plays against Plup and Mew2King. The matchup is quite simple, it's just a matter of execution. Fast reactions, godlike shffling, patient neutral and oos games along with a crisp ledge and platform game will give even the best Sheiks a hard time.

 

[Nishifue]

He is. Stop complaining. Accept that Melee is hard. Get over yourself and admit you have a lot of room for improvement. If you're struggling with this matchup, understand it is your fault. Own it. From there you can take responsibility of your actions and take control of the situation. Be like Falcon and learn to take a hit.

What did I do to put myself in the wrong to take responsibility for it? I admitted I struggled with the MU when I posted this thread lol. I know better than most Melee is hard. I've been playing it for a few years now.

 

[タオー]

We both know i'm the better player, but he has the W's over me in friendlies and in tournaments. He sports a very lame, east coast play style and abuses d throw > tech chases all day.

My punish game is fine, and i don't think playing like a weiner is going to help me. Seriously, since when have you ever heard of a lame Falcon?

He's not the better player trust me. I don't approach mindlessly, Falcon has little approach anyways and I can't just NOT approach when he's throwing needles at me. I think his neutrals getting a lot better although i'm still better than him

None of these things are good for your mentality. You need to realize that concepts of "lame" strategies hold no bearing in tournament results. If your opponent is abusing a strategy, you can use that knowledge to anticipate and play a counter strategy.

Skill is not the same as tech skill. I used to get so frustrated that I had to work so hard for my kills while other characters are not as technically demanding, but that doesn't mean I was the better player. In a tournament, only the win matters. This means you will face "lame" strategies from time to time. Accept that you are not the better player if he keeps beating you. You might be losing to a "lame" strategy, and realize that if you can't overcome even that you still have a lot of work.

 

[Nishifue]

None of these things are good for your mentality. You need to realize that concepts of "lame" strategies hold no bearing in tournament results. If your opponent is abusing a strategy, you can use that knowledge to anticipate and play a counter strategy.

Skill is not the same as tech skill. I used to get so frustrated that I had to work so hard for my kills while other characters are not as technically demanding, but that doesn't mean I was the better player. In a tournament, only the win matters. This means you will face "lame" strategies from time to time. Accept that you are not the better player if he keeps beating you. You might be losing to a "lame" strategy, and realize that if you can't overcome even that you still have a lot of work.

Yeah Sheik is definitely the character people start out with when they have poor tech skill (unless they do a falling aerial, they don't even have to l-cancel and she has noob freelo tilts lol). It seems like i'm working harder for less reward. He knocked me out of losers twice in locals only to lose the next round which is why I still think i'm better. I just have a mind block when playing him even in friendlies which is bad. I feel like if he wasn't in the way, I would get better tourney results, but that's just bracket johns lol.

 

[TacoLord9000]

Yeah Sheik is definitely the character people start out with when they have poor tech skill (unless they do a falling aerial, they don't even have to l-cancel and she has noob freelo tilts lol). It seems like i'm working harder for less reward. He knocked me out of losers twice in locals only to lose the next round which is why I still think i'm better. I just have a mind block when playing him even in friendlies which is bad. I feel like if he wasn't in the way, I would get better tourney results, but that's just bracket johns lol.

If you have a mental block in a certain matchup, it might be better to have a secondary just for that matchup. I know a lot of people discourage this, but we've seen it at high levels of play, most notably Armada using Young Link against Hbox and then eventually using Fox later on.
The Ice Climbers are pretty good against Sheik and Jigglypuff also has a lot of tools to abuse against her.
I also hate Sheik as well since it is an unwinnable matchup for Zelda, but sometimes the best option is to try something different.

 

[MTL Kyle]

is. You talk smack behind a computer, go ahead and try saying this to someone irl you'd get slapped.

6 years playing Smash, 6 years talkng smack, not a single finger hit my face yet.


Time to grow some tough skin and git gud.

 

[Nishifue]

If you have a mental block in a certain matchup, it might be better to have a secondary just for that matchup. I know a lot of people discourage this, but we've seen it at high levels of play, most notably Armada using Young Link against Hbox and then eventually using Fox later on.
The Ice Climbers are pretty good against Sheik and Jigglypuff also has a lot of tools to abuse against her.
I also hate Sheik as well since it is an unwinnable matchup for Zelda, but sometimes the best option is to try something different.

Tried it out and it didn't work out too well lol sticking to Falcon.

6 years playing Smash, 6 years talkng smack, not a single finger hit my face yet.


Time to grow some tough skin and git gud.

Hope someone does over hear your smack talk. You'd get socked in the face lol.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Hope someone does over hear your smack talk. You'd get socked in the face lol.

Why are you wishing that I get spanked ?
Just because I told that your mindset is toxic and it won't take you anywhere ?

Geeeezzzzz

 

[Nishifue]

Why are you wishing that I get spanked ?
Just because I told that your mindset is toxic and it won't take you anywhere ?

Geeeezzzzz

Cause you need to learn how to treat people with some respect kid. I'm not even toxic and I sure hope you're not, but I doubt it seeing as how you go to my thread and talk smack lol.

 

[Waves]

Damn, everyone relax lol, he asked for tips so give him tips and leave it alone if you dont agree. No reason to flame him and call him bad without ever meeting him and interpreting something he typed as him saying he is a god but falcon sucks. He just said he needs help with sheik and that he doesnt know the matchup lol.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Cause you need to learn how to treat people with some respect kid. I'm not even toxic and I sure hope you're not, but I doubt it seeing as how you go to my thread and talk smack lol.

I don't think that you are the one to judge if I need to learn how to respect people.
Wish you the best, and grow up

 

[タオー]

Yeah Sheik is definitely the character people start out with when they have poor tech skill (unless they do a falling aerial, they don't even have to l-cancel and she has noob freelo tilts lol). It seems like i'm working harder for less reward. He knocked me out of losers twice in locals only to lose the next round which is why I still think i'm better. I just have a mind block when playing him even in friendlies which is bad. I feel like if he wasn't in the way, I would get better tourney results, but that's just bracket johns lol.

If he beats you, regardless if you're "better", you still lose to him. Instead of downplaying the accomplishments of the Sheik, try focusing on why he wins. If you are simply frustrated by your friend, odds are he's already at an advantage because he has already made his way into your head. Obviously this is already a real obstruction; if you are unable to break free from this external pressure (beating your friend as opposed to beating sheik), it will likely only hinder you more.

 

[SazoonTheBoon]

Cause you need to learn how to treat people with some respect kid. I'm not even toxic and I sure hope you're not, but I doubt it seeing as how you go to my thread and talk smack lol.

I think you're in the wrong community

 

[タオー]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5UCDsBZtlk
This is a good approach to mindset

 

[Nishifue]

I don't think that you are the one to judge if I need to learn how to respect people.
Wish you the best, and grow up

Lol wut?

I think you're in the wrong community

LOL no. This community can be perfectly fine without the smack talk lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5UCDsBZtlk
This is a good approach to mindset

Thx 4 the vid bro.

 

[Twinkles]

If you feel like you are working much harder than your friend and still losing, this is an immediate alert that you should just be changing how you are playing and how you are approaching the game. Winning is about playing smarter, not about playing harder. Also, throw whatever ideas you have about being better than your friend out the window whenever you play him, none of this "I'd beat way better players than he could" matters in the head 2 head, and this is true for literally everyone to have ever played the game.

Getting good against Sheik is a lot of getting used to her timings/habits. Ftilt has great startup, but enough cooldown lag that you can grab her if you bait it. If you are really confident, you can try to bait it and overshoot it with dair. Utilt can be shieldgrabbed between the first hit and 2nd hit, but after the 2nd hit Sheik is safe for another action.

Fair and Nair can AC into her tilts/jab, so these moves are actually safe on shield.

All of her moves are not great at lower %, and don't really start leading into massive combos until past 40-50%. Crouch cancel makes this MU way harder for Sheik.

Once you've established that Sheik's moves are not great at lower %, she relies on grab heavily to get her through early game.

What Falcon does: Nair is a poke move in this MU. Space it well always cuz it can get CC'd grabbed if misspaced, but you can use it to bait out Sheik's options (ftilt especially). Use nair just to feel out Sheik, don't need to commit to a followup unless it bounces sheik up or if you've conditioned sheik properly. Bait out rolls/ftilts, grab them. Dair is like a higher-reward, higher-risk grab, and straight up destroys crouch cancel if sheik has started getting frisky with her crouches.

Sheik is in an awful spot anytime she is forced to escape your tech-chase, if she's above you, or if she's offstage. Force her into these spots as much as possible.

Always remember you picked Falcon, you deal with Falcon problems. At any point if you complain about Falcon, you can always pick up Fox instead.

 

[Nishifue]

If you feel like you are working much harder than your friend and still losing, this is an immediate alert that you should just be changing how you are playing and how you are approaching the game. Winning is about playing smarter, not about playing harder. Also, throw whatever ideas you have about being better than your friend out the window whenever you play him, none of this "I'd beat way better players than he could" matters in the head 2 head, and this is true for literally everyone to have ever played the game.

Getting good against Sheik is a lot of getting used to her timings/habits. Ftilt has great startup, but enough cooldown lag that you can grab her if you bait it. If you are really confident, you can try to bait it and overshoot it with dair. Utilt can be shieldgrabbed between the first hit and 2nd hit, but after the 2nd hit Sheik is safe for another action.

Fair and Nair can AC into her tilts/jab, so these moves are actually safe on shield.

All of her moves are not great at lower %, and don't really start leading into massive combos until past 40-50%. Crouch cancel makes this MU way harder for Sheik.

Once you've established that Sheik's moves are not great at lower %, she relies on grab heavily to get her through early game.

What Falcon does: Nair is a poke move in this MU. Space it well always cuz it can get CC'd grabbed if misspaced, but you can use it to bait out Sheik's options (ftilt especially). Use nair just to feel out Sheik, don't need to commit to a followup unless it bounces sheik up or if you've conditioned sheik properly. Bait out rolls/ftilts, grab them. Dair is like a higher-reward, higher-risk grab, and straight up destroys crouch cancel if sheik has started getting frisky with her crouches.

Sheik is in an awful spot anytime she is forced to escape your tech-chase, if she's above you, or if she's offstage. Force her into these spots as much as possible.

Always remember you picked Falcon, you deal with Falcon problems. At any point if you complain about Falcon, you can always pick up Fox instead.

Umm... Yeah I tried to pocket Sheik to get a feel for this character and it didn't work out lol.

 

[JagoTheTiger]

An obstacle I have right now is against a certain friend of mine that plays Sheik. We both know i'm the better player, but he has the W's over me in friendlies and in tournaments. He sports a very lame, east coast play style and abuses d throw > tech chases all day. I do my best to mix up my techs, but at this point he knows all of my mix ups. I need help in beating him. I can win on my FD cp, but I can't win anywhere else. Help me.

I have the same ******** problem. I HATE SHIEK!

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

This thread........
Cancer to smashboards

 

[Nishifue]

This thread........
Cancer to smashboards

Don't go on this thread then if you're just gonna post something like that lol. Post something more constructive next time.

 

[Twinkles]

Yeah, post more constructive stuff like "Sheik is lame" or "I hate Sheik."

 

[MTL Kyle]

I will make a thread asking people how to beat lame Falcons, that must be constructive as hell

 

[Nishifue]

Yeah, post more constructive stuff like "Sheik is lame" or "I hate Sheik."

When did I say that? I'm talking about my friend not Shiek lol.

I will make a thread asking people how to beat lame Falcons, that must be constructive as hell

You go do that lol. At least you will be doing something instead of bugging me on my thread.

 

[Twinkles]

I was more talking along the lines of someone else who wanted to chime in with "I HATE SHEIK" though I find it kinda funny you don't say **** about "constructive" posts when someone comes in to complain about sheik lol

FWIW, one of the things people hate most about Falcon mains is how much they complain about a) their own character and b) lameness when honestly playing against Falcon can feel just as lame if not more so. Falcon hate group exists mostly because they hate that scrub mentality lots of Falcon noobs have, where at least other players just take it, don't call it lame, and instead just figure it out by accepting it as legitimate gameplay. They pretend to call Falcon "broken" cuz he has "air wobbling -> rest" because it's as bull**** as what lots of Falcon players say when they play against anyone else.

Honestly, I think one of the reasons why people have responded with so much hostility to you is because you seem like that very stereotypical Falcon main. On top of that, the way you respond to advice doesn't really give any insight to if you actually understood or will implement anything you've been told. Like, I'm not really interested in that you tried a Sheik ditto and got ****ed because you don't know how to Sheik, I'm more interested if my wall of text has actually given you ideas about how you can beat your friend.

 

[Nishifue]

I was more talking along the lines of someone else who wanted to chime in with "I HATE SHEIK" though I find it kinda funny you don't say **** about "constructive" posts when someone comes in to complain about sheik lol

FWIW, one of the things people hate most about Falcon mains is how much they complain about a) their own character and b) lameness when honestly playing against Falcon can feel just as lame if not more so. Falcon hate group exists mostly because they hate that scrub mentality lots of Falcon noobs have, where at least other players just take it, don't call it lame, and instead just figure it out by accepting it as legitimate gameplay. They pretend to call Falcon "broken" cuz he has "air wobbling -> rest" because it's as bull**** as what lots of Falcon players say when they play against anyone else.

Honestly, I think one of the reasons why people have responded with so much hostility to you is because you seem like that very stereotypical Falcon main. On top of that, the way you respond to advice doesn't really give any insight to if you actually understood or will implement anything you've been told. Like, I'm not really interested in that you tried a Sheik ditto and got ****ed because you don't know how to Sheik, I'm more interested if my wall of text has actually given you ideas about how you can beat your friend.

I lol from the randy post. I don't have to reply to everything jeez. Also its not like that guy is talking smack to me so I let it go. Hate groups should not exist period. Anyone associated with that Falcon hate group should get a life. People shouldn't be hostile towards me because they think i'm a stereotype when they don't know me at all. Do you honestly think i'm not reading any of the advice you guys give me? I don't have to reply to all the advice given to me lol. How do you know i'm not practicing??

 

[Twinkles]

Probably because instead of responding to advice with open discussion and trying to explore new concepts, you waste your smashboards posts on defending yourself in an online forum. It says a lot about you as a person I'd say.

 

[タオー]

Word. Just accept you suck like 99% of us.

Denying it will not help you get better.

Character Johns get you nowhere.

Take responsibility for your own gameplay and results. Sadly most of the opportunities for theory crafting in this thread have diminished into you trying to defend your ego which hurts your chances for improvement just as much as it annoys us who are trying to help.

 

[MTL Kyle]

Do you honestly think i'm not reading any of the advice you guys give me?

Nope.
At the moment you call yourself better than someone and just because you lose to someone you call them lame, I think you are not listening to what we are saying at all.


Drop the talk dude, we are all here to learn.

 

[Nishifue]

Probably because instead of responding to advice with open discussion and trying to explore new concepts, you waste your smashboards posts on defending yourself in an online forum. It says a lot about you as a person I'd say.

Lol u can't say what kind of person I am u don't know me. You can't waste posts lol there's an unlimited supply.

Word. Just accept you suck like 99% of us.

Denying it will not help you get better.

Character Johns get you nowhere.

Take responsibility for your own gameplay and results. Sadly most of the opportunities for theory crafting in this thread have diminished into you trying to defend your ego which hurts your chances for improvement just as much as it annoys us who are trying to help.

Half the people here aren't even helping they're just talking smack to me which makes me mad. When did I deny i'm not good? If I did I wouldn't be here on this forum asking for help.

Nope.
At the moment you call yourself better than someone and just because you lose to someone you call them lame, I think you are not listening to what we are saying at all.


Drop the talk dude, we are all here to learn.

LOL get a life kid. You think you know me when you don't. I take advice seriously. You need to gtfo this thread you have nothing to contribute.

 

[Twinkles]

All you do is keep posting when someone talks smack about you, I don't need to know you or have ever met you to see that you are being very defensive now. Like, you actually don't have to keep responding to these comments, you can actually just ignore them and just ask more questions about the game. And your posts are wasteful, they're a waste of space in these Falcon boards right now because if someone was looking for Sheik help, they'll find your thread is honestly full of garbage, and 50% is just because you only have things to say when you're being ****-talked LOL

 

[タオー]

Good people ask for help. This game is almost endlessly deep. Realizing that you need to improve and exploring specific interactions is a big part of improving at this game, especially in the current meta. Complaining about match ups/"lame" play is completely counter to the attitude required to improve against those strategies. If you're going to get salty about losing to a lame strategy, you'll more than likely keep losing to it. Unless you address the actual mechanics within the game, you're most likely going to hit a mental plateau (which could be contributing to your current Sheik problem).

My point? Start responding to the parts of this thread that actually matter, so you deal with the issue at hand.

 

[MTL Kyle]

LOL get a life kid. You think you know me when you don't. I take advice seriously. You need to gtfo this thread you have nothing to contribute.

Change your mindset about the game and about people.
You gotta understand that being humble hurts you less in the long run.

 

[SazoonTheBoon]

I don't think you're getting through to him :/

 

[MTL Kyle]

Me neither. But I'm enjoying trying.

 

[Nishifue]

Me neither. But I'm enjoying trying.

You shouldn't enjoy mocking me. I hate that.