Dawn of the 3D Remake: Young Link for DLC! (ROY IS SEMI-CLONED! HOPE FOR MOVESET CHANGES RISES!)

BluePikmin11

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New Big Poll! It's Source Gaming's biggest Smash poll yet!

NEW POLLING EFFORT BY @@ BluePikmin11 BluePikmin11
The SG team has helped BluePikmin reorganize his individual character polls into 4 parts. We've also provided pre-filled out forms with neutral responses so people can navigate quickly. Hopefully this will yield more and better information for future posts.
 

Yoshister

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Can anyone think of a list of reasons why Young Link should return? Perhaps it'd help his support.
 

Dragonhunter970

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How would you imagine a trailer for young link? For me, Toon and adult would be fighting and suddenly young link would drop in and join in.
 

Kenith

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Young Link is currently the only Zelda character I want in Smash. Screw the hate, I think having a trifecta of the three best Link's is awesome.
The only one from the main console games we would be missing is Skyward Sword...which is a costume for Miis.
 

The Merc

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More Young Link supporters?!

YAAAA :D

How would you imagine a trailer for young link? For me, Toon and adult would be fighting and suddenly young link would drop in and join in.
I think Link and Tink fighter Ganon, losing, then suddenly Y.Link comes in and beats the crap out of Ganon and at the end turns to Fierce Deity Link!

:135:
 

Dragonhunter970

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More Young Link supporters?!

YAAAA :D



I think Link and Tink fighter Ganon, losing, then suddenly Y.Link comes in and beats the crap out of Ganon and at the end turns to Fierce Deity Link!

:135:
Link(subtitle at the fierce deity)What the-
 
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I would be perfectly fine with a last minute clone, tbh. The mask thing would be cool, but that would be a LOT of strain on the 3DS.

I just want my Melee main back. :,)
 

Bowserboy3

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I am glad there are others like me who still want Young Link to return! I had a think about how they could re-introduce Young Link while keeping him similar to in Melee, but not feeling pointless in Smash 4. I came up with these ideas. Tell me what you think!

I envision Young Link as a Link/Toon Link hybrid in Smash 4, with some moves being changed to make him less similar to them. Young Link would be faster than Link but slower than Toon Link (who I will be referring to as Tink from now on). He would also be in between them in terms of height. In terms of weight, he would weigh less than Toon Link, perhaps being a weight of anywhere from 85 to 90. He would also be based on his Majora's Mask incarnation, having the Sword and Shield from that game, meaning he would have less range than Link, but more than Tink. He would also be able to wall jump like in Melee.

Standard Attacks. His Jab would be the same as the others, but it would keep his cool multi hitting option if you wanted, and it could even have a finisher this time around! It would deal less damage than the other Links, but the option for the rapid jab finish makes up for this. Tilts would be very similar to how they were in Melee, not much to say here. They would have less range than Link but more than Tink, and would be faster than Link's, but slower than Tink's. They would do more damage than Tink's, but have less knockback to compensate. I think his Dash Attack would be his Melee dash attack, not being Link's Jump Slash (we will get onto that later). This could knock people in different directions depending on when it hits. If the start hits, it knocks into the air diagonally in front of him, but if hit late on into the move, it could knock opponents behind him, perhaps confusing the opponent. Smashes would be slightly different. His Up Smash would probably be the same as Links, but with less KO power and slightly less endlag. The move could maybe have less knockback at low percents allowing it to combo more. Down Smash could be a different Dsmash in this game, with the front hit having more knockback but less damage, and the back being less knockback but more damage, It would function like Links, not linking like Tinks. Fsmash could be the Jump Slash, like Links Dash Attack, meaning he doesn't have the 2 hit move. This would mean this move has less damage potential, but is more reliable and still is potent. Faster than Link's Jump Slash, but as a smash, it can be charged, meaning it could have more knockback at full charge, but slightly less at no charge.

Aerial Attacks. This is where things start to mix up. I think Young Link could inherit different Aerials from Link and Tink. For example, he would keep Links Nair and Dair, but have Tink's Fair an Bair, but they would obviously work differently. Nair would work like Melee, being more powerful than Links. Dair would function like Links too, and not a stall then fall like Tinks. This one would be less powerful than Links in terms of damage, and it would be cool if the meteor smash came out later, meaning you must have different timings for the 2 characters. His Fair and Bair would function like Tinks, but deal less knockback, while having more range. For example, Fair could do 10% damage, and Bair 12%, have more range than Tinks but less knockback. Still reliable at killing, just kill later, not early like Tinks. Uair could be a different move. A weak upwards slice, similar to Meta Knight's Uair. This would give Young Link an aerial juggle tool. It wouldn't KO, but Link and Tink lack an aerial juggle tool, so this would differentiate them more.

Specials. I want Young Link to return with his regular special moves. I know there is room to make specials different, but I want him to stay as close to his Melee self as possible. Of course, his specials could have different properties. Bombs need no intorductions, they would function like the others. Boomerang would be more close to Tinks, but this one deals more damage. In return, it travels ever so slightly farther, meaning it also takes ever so slightly longer to return when thrown. Up Special could be slightly different. On the ground, if you don't charge it, it is a multi hit move, but charge it to make it function like Links, albeit less powerful. The multi hit spin deals more damage but less knockback than Tink, and launches diagonally, meaning though it has less knockback, it puts him in a safer position. Arrows are where there is room for opening however. I thought it would be cool to reference his bow and arrow from Majora. Arrows fly as fast as Links but deal less damage than Tinks (for example, Tinks deal 4% uncharged and 12% chagred. Young Links could deal 4% uncharged, but 9% charged, while travelling as fast as Links). This is where I have an idea. Hold Up while charging an arrow to activate a Fire Arrow, which travels less distance and drops to the floor quicker, but deals more damage (11%) and stays on the floor for a few seconds, dealing 1% damage to opponents who step on it with no knockback at all). You could also hold Down whle charging to activate an Ice Arrow, that deals less damage fully charged (7%) and functions like a regular arrow in terms of speed, but has a 50% chance of lightly freezing the opponent. It is about as easy to break out of as being buried by Villagers Down Smash.

Throws would work mainly like Link's. Dthrow would be a good combo starter for things like Utilt, and Uthrow would work nicely for getting opponents into the air. It would not kill, like Links, but has less endlag, allowing you to follow up with his Uair. I thought he could also utilize his slingshot from Ocarina in his F/Bthrows. Launch them away with a Deku Seed from the Slingshot. They would deal the most damage of his throws, dealing 9% on impact and 1% when they launch, but the slingshot animation is slow, giving the opponent lots of time to get the correct DI. The slingshot animation cannot be escaped, the animation is just slow. They could kill at the edge at around 140%, meaning he could kill better with his F/Bthrow than Link can, but Tink still has the superior kill throw in his Bthrow.

His Final Smash would not be the Triforce Slash, but would be Fierce Deity Link. In this Final Smash, you become the size of regular Link. Your attacks deal more damage, slightly more knockback, have more range thanks to the sword, and you are invincible. You are transformed for approximately 15 seconds, though taking damage reduces this time (akin to Mega Lucario, Wario Man, Giga Bowser etc.). You can however only use attacks that involve his sword during this time, due to the sword taking both hands to swing. This means no grabs, no arrows, bombs or boomerang. You can still use your Up B Spin Attack however, as that involves your sword.

To conclude, I want to see Young Link return without drastic changes to his moveset, but enough changes to warrant him feeling different to the other 2, while still letting the others feel unique. Link would still be the most powerful, Toon Link would be the quickest and have the easiest time landing his KO (with things like Bthrow) and Young Link would be a mixture of the 2, while wielding special special moves, and an improved juggle game (perhaps due to his youth!). What do you people think of my idea?
 
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Eight_SixtyFour

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I am glad there are others like me who still want Young Link to return! I had a think about how they could re-introduce Young Link while keeping him similar to in Melee, but not feeling pointless in Smash 4. I came up with these ideas. Tell me what you think!

I envision Young Link as a Link/Toon Link hybrid in Smash 4, with some moves being changed to make him less similar to them. In terms of weight, he would weigh less than Toon Link, perhaps being a weight of anywhere from 85 to 90.

Standard Attacks. His Jab would be the same as the others, but it would keep his cool multi hitting option if you wanted, and it could even have a finisher this time around! Smashes would be slightly different. His Up Smash would probably be the same as Links, but with less KO power and slightly less endlag. The move could maybe have less knockback at low percents allowing it to combo more. Down Smash could be a different Dsmash in this game, with the front hit having more knockback but less damage, and the back being less knockback but more damage, It would function like Links, not linking like Tinks. Fsmash could be the Jump Slash, like Links Dash Attack, meaning he doesn't have the 2 hit move.

Aerial Attacks. This is where things start to mix up. I think Young Link could inherit different Aerials from Link and Tink. For example, he would keep Links Nair and Dair, but have Tink's Fair an Bair, but they would obviously work differently. Nair would work like Melee, being more powerful than Links. Dair would function like Links too, and not a stall then fall like Tinks. This one would be less powerful than Links in terms of damage, and it would be cool if the meteor smash came out later, meaning you must have different timings for the 2 characters. His Fair and Bair would function like Tinks, but deal less knockback, while having more range. For example, Fair could do 10% damage, and Bair 12%, have more range than Tinks but less knockback. Still reliable at killing, just kill later, not early like Tinks. Uair could be a different move. A weak upwards slice, similar to Meta Knight's Uair. This would give Young Link an aerial juggle tool. It wouldn't KO, but Link and Tink lack an aerial juggle tool, so this would differentiate them more.

Specials. I want Young Link to return with his regular special moves. Up Special could be slightly different. On the ground, if you don't charge it, it is a multi hit move, but charge it to make it function like Links, albeit less powerful. The multi hit spin deals more damage but less knockback than Tink, and launches diagonally, meaning though it has less knockback, it puts him in a safer position. Arrows are where there is room for opening however. I thought it would be cool to reference his bow and arrow from Majora. Arrows fly as fast as Links but deal less damage than Tinks (for example, Tinks deal 4% uncharged and 12% chagred. Young Links could deal 4% uncharged, but 9% charged, while travelling as fast as Links). This is where I have an idea. Hold Up while charging an arrow to activate a Fire Arrow, which travels less distance and drops to the floor quicker, but deals more damage (11%) and stays on the floor for a few seconds, dealing 1% damage to opponents who step on it with no knockback at all). You could also hold Down whle charging to activate an Ice Arrow, that deals less damage fully charged (7%) and functions like a regular arrow in terms of speed, but has a 50% chance of lightly freezing the opponent. It is about as easy to break out of as being buried by Villagers Down Smash.

Throws would work mainly like Link's. Dthrow would be a good combo starter for things like Utilt, and Uthrow would work nicely for getting opponents into the air. It would not kill, like Links, but has less endlag, allowing you to follow up with his Uair. I thought he could also utilize his slingshot from Ocarina in his F/Bthrows. Launch them away with a Deku Seed from the Slingshot. They would deal the most damage of his throws, dealing 9% on impact and 1% when they launch, but the slingshot animation is slow, giving the opponent lots of time to get the correct DI. The slingshot animation cannot be escaped, the animation is just slow. They could kill at the edge at around 140%, meaning he could kill better with his F/Bthrow than Link can, but Tink still has the superior kill throw in his Bthrow.

He doesn't need to be a hybrid on Link/Tink to be unique. Further comments below:

  • Why should he be slower AND lighter than Tink?
  • I'm fine with the Smash Attacks suggestions, though the Up Smash suggestions sounds iffy. Maybe his forward smash could be like Smash 64 Link's forward smash.
  • I'd rather have aerials derived from Link's aerials. The Up Air suggestion is decent.
  • Definitely needs bombs. I like the arrow suggestion but freezing should work like other games.
  • The thing that Yink is missing is KO power. If you want him to be combo heavy, that's ok.
  • He should be a fastfaller with good ground speed and decent air speed.
 
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Bowserboy3

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He doesn't need to be a hybrid on Link/Tink to be unique. Further comments below:

  • Why should he be slower AND lighter than Tink?
  • I'm fine with the Smash Attacks suggestions, though the Up Smash suggestions sounds iffy. Maybe his forward smash could be like Smash 64 Link's forward smash.
  • I'd rather have aerials derived from Link's aerials. The Up Air suggestion is decent.
  • Definitely needs bombs. I like the arrow suggestion but freezing should work like other games.
  • The thing that Yink is missing is KO power. If you want him to be combo heavy, that's ok.
  • He should be a fastfaller with good ground speed and decent air speed.
I know there are more options for him to be unique, but for me, I do want to see him very close to his appearance in Melee (by this, I mean actually using projectiles and his sword rather than utilizing masks in his specialsI did it like this so the characters have variety rather than the standard light, medium and heavy. Link would be the bigger, more sluggish one. Toon Link would be the faster character. Young Link would have more options than the other Links due to his moveset, and thus, is lighter to compensate this. Besides, Young Link is just a boy. Link is clearly a man, and thus is bigger and stockier. Toon Link is clearly a teen at least. And like I said, I'd like him keeping true to his appearance in Melee, so he would be slower than Toon Link, but even then, it wouldn't be incredibly slower. More like Young Link runs at Mario's speed for example, which is slightly slower than Toon Link, but noticeably faster than Link. I thought they could at least change his smashes up a bit, even if it is just in their effect. For example, Toon Link has a Dsmash that links into itself. If Young Link's Up Smash didn't kill until later on, it could be used to pop opponents into the air more easily. Not saying it won't kill, but just a bit later. To make Young Link's smashes different, I thought that I would make Dsmash more his KO move. Making it a Smash 4 oddity where the front end is more powerful than the back. This would make it easier to land as it also comes out quick too. I must have forgotten to mention Bombs, so yes, I had no intention of him not having them. In terms of KO moves, my suggested Young Link would have at his disposal the following: Dsmash, Fsmash, Bair, Fair and Dair. All these would have kill potential. I specifically suggested that Young Link should have Toon Link's Fair and Bair because it would improve his lack of KO moves. Both these moves are rather quick and safe too. Nair would also be powerful too, seeing is it is more powerful than Link's, which can already kill near the edge. Young Link would focus more from killing off of the sides, as that's where his KO moves would kill people. However, I think it would be cool/novel to be able to combo my suggested Up Air into a Spin Attack, and have that kill off the top. That would be nice. You are right about his fall speed. He should keep Link's trait of having a very fast fastfall speed. I also thought that if he would have 64 Link's Fsmash, he could always use the Jump Slash as his dash attack... who knows. But I do want Young Link to return, keeping him faithful to his Melee incarnation, but allowing him to feel different to Toon Link.
 

Dre89

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I'd love a unique Young Link, but it has next to zero chance of it happening

His only chance of coming back is that he's a vet and it wouldn't take much dev time. If they're going to take the time to make a unique character, they'd just pick a more popular character from the ballot.
 

Bowserboy3

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I'd love a unique Young Link, but it has next to zero chance of it happening

His only chance of coming back is that he's a vet and it wouldn't take much dev time. If they're going to take the time to make a unique character, they'd just pick a more popular character from the ballot.
What I like to think is that the 3 "mario" character spots in the games code recently found, are actually placeholder files for Young Link, Pichu and Wolf, and that we are getting these 3 AS WELL as a couple of characters from the ballot later on. I'd just like to have a Smash with all of the veteran characters in it. Unfortunately know Ice Climbers aren't going to happen, and Snake seems very unlikely (multiple reasons, such as maybe the game having to have a higher age rating, his voice actor, Konami in general etc), so the three I mentioned seem to fit, and there's nothing stopping them. If i'm honest, it seems unlikely anyway, but I like to think this is what is happening.
 

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What I like to think is that the 3 "mario" character spots in the games code recently found, are actually placeholder files for Young Link, Pichu and Wolf, and that we are getting these 3 AS WELL as a couple of characters from the ballot later on. I'd just like to have a Smash with all of the veteran characters in it. Unfortunately know Ice Climbers aren't going to happen, and Snake seems very unlikely (multiple reasons, such as maybe the game having to have a higher age rating, his voice actor, Konami in general etc), so the three I mentioned seem to fit, and there's nothing stopping them. If i'm honest, it seems unlikely anyway, but I like to think this is what is happening.
Everyone seems to forget about Squirtle and Ivysaur
 

Bowserboy3

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Everyone seems to forget about Squirtle and Ivysaur
Hmm good point. I suppose it's because we already have Charizard, that people (like myself) just forget about them. Though I am sure people less knowledgeable to the Pokemon games would recognize Charizard, and even Pichu more than these two... Still, I have no objection in seeing those two Pokemon as seperate Pokemon in the game too.
 

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Hmm good point. I suppose it's because we already have Charizard, that people (like myself) just forget about them. Though I am sure people less knowledgeable to the Pokemon games would recognize Charizard, and even Pichu more than these two... Still, I have no objection in seeing those two Pokemon as seperate Pokemon in the game too.
Young Link is way more 'forgettable' than the pokemon because he was directly replaced by Toon Link as the rep for the child games that Sakurai feels is important. The pokemon were just cut because the 3DS couldn't handle transformations, so Wii U players like me who mained PT got punished because of the existence of an inferior version.
 

Bowserboy3

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Young Link is way more 'forgettable' than the pokemon because he was directly replaced by Toon Link as the rep for the child games that Sakurai feels is important. The pokemon were just cut because the 3DS couldn't handle transformations, so Wii U players like me who mained PT got punished because of the existence of an inferior version.
Oh no, what I meant was if you have someone fairly new to gaming, they'd be able to clearly recognize Charizard over Squirtle or Ivysaur because it's just a fact that he is more popular and is in the spotlight more. Another example is Young Link is in fact just a younger version of Link, so people would understand who he is as opposed to knowing the individual Pokemon. And also, just because Young Link got shafted for Toon Link, it doesn't make him forgettable at all in terms of an actual character (not a fighter). Young Link is the protagonist of arguably the most popular Zelda game, and its sequel. Not a forgettable character.

I do want to see every fighter back some day, it would be awesome.
 

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Oh no, what I meant was if you have someone fairly new to gaming, they'd be able to clearly recognize Charizard over Squirtle or Ivysaur because it's just a fact that he is more popular and is in the spotlight more. Another example is Young Link is in fact just a younger version of Link, so people would understand who he is as opposed to knowing the individual Pokemon. And also, just because Young Link got shafted for Toon Link, it doesn't make him forgettable at all in terms of an actual character (not a fighter). Young Link is the protagonist of arguably the most popular Zelda game, and its sequel. Not a forgettable character.

I do want to see every fighter back some day, it would be awesome.
But we're talking about vet DLC, which is about pleasing people who played previous Smash games, not necessarily people new to gaming
 
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Bowserboy3

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But we're talking about vet DLC, which is about pleasing people who played previous Smash games, not necessarily people new to gaming
That's fair enough, but to what are you implying... that adding the likes of Pichu or Young Link wouldn't please people?
 

ErenJager

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Perhaps adding some sort of sword mechanic, since in Majora's Mask you upgrade your sword.

Kokiri Sword ---> Razor Sword ----> Gilded Sword.

Also Fire Arrows.
...Maybe Ice Arrows, some how, perhaps similar to Samus' rockets.


and...a...
Sling Shot.

And of course a Fierce Deity Final Smash.
 

The Merc

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Perhaps adding some sort of sword mechanic, since in Majora's Mask you upgrade your sword.

Kokiri Sword ---> Razor Sword ----> Gilded Sword.

Also Fire Arrows.
...Maybe Ice Arrows, some how, perhaps similar to Samus' rockets.


and...a...
Sling Shot.

And of course a Fierce Deity Final Smash.
Eh, just give him the razor sword. It be bad***

:135:
 

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I'm gonna be that one guy who is confused by why people want Young Link back.

Really if you think about it, Toon Link is Young Link, but just re-skinned. They play just about the same, and I think other Zelda characters deserve a chance over Young Link.
 

Eight_SixtyFour

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I'm gonna be that one guy who is confused by why people want Young Link back.

Really if you think about it, Toon Link is Young Link, but just re-skinned. They play just about the same, and I think other Zelda characters deserve a chance over Young Link.
That's called judging a book by its' cover. -_-

Yink is more like a spacie Link (i.e. good mobility + fastfaller) so no, they don't play just about the same.
He has moves derived from Link's attacks (e.g. Tink's aerials use his sword, Yink's doesn't, Tink has a single hit upsmash, Young Link has the triple smash, etc.)
His moves have different properties (Yink's down air meteor works differently than Tink's stall and fall meteor, etc.)
Yink is more offensive than Tink.
Lastly, given how vastly different returning clones are (Doc and Roy were different enough in Melee but now they're vastly different), Yink has potential to be a completely dynamic character. I don't really understand this concept of characters "deserving" anything. It would be cool if your character got in, but ffs
And we just like the character for whatever reason.
 

The Merc

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I'm gonna be that one guy who is confused by why people want Young Link back.

Really if you think about it, Toon Link is Young Link, but just re-skinned. They play just about the same, and I think other Zelda characters deserve a chance over Young Link.
Because Toon Link= Bad Link

Young Link= Awesome Link

That's called judging a book by its' cover. -_-

Yink is more like a spacie Link (i.e. good mobility + fastfaller) so no, they don't play just about the same.
He has moves derived from Link's attacks (e.g. Tink's aerials use his sword, Yink's doesn't, Tink has a single hit upsmash, Young Link has the triple smash, etc.)
His moves have different properties (Yink's down air meteor works differently than Tink's stall and fall meteor, etc.)
Yink is more offensive than Tink.
Lastly, given how vastly different returning clones are (Doc and Roy were different enough in Melee but now they're vastly different), Yink has potential to be a completely dynamic character. I don't really understand this concept of characters "deserving" anything. It would be cool if your character got in, but ffs
And we just like the character for whatever reason.

:135:
 

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I'm gonna be that one guy who is confused by why people want Young Link back.

Really if you think about it, Toon Link is Young Link, but just re-skinned. They play just about the same, and I think other Zelda characters deserve a chance over Young Link.
I want Young Link back because he's the Link from OoT, the Hero of Time, the Link we all know and love. He also played differently from TL, and he, honestly, felt more satifying to play as. I like Toon Link a lot, and WW is my favorite game, but nothing can compare in terms of iconic-ness to the legendary hero himself.
Other Zelda reps would be fine and dandy, but the reality is, YL would be a lot easier to add in last minute, and would appease fans like us, who want to see our main from Melee back, not just a knock-off.
 

False Sense

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Okay, yeah, Toon Link's not that bad. I just like Young Link more.
Though you better not have the Link main's catch you saying that

:135:
Hey, not my fault that Toon Link is a better Link. :p
 

False Sense

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What? What are you talking about? Link is clearly better than Toon Link.















Said nobody

:135:
Well, I'm talking from a more personal perspective on the Links as actual characters (not just as Smash characters). I personally find Toon Link to be a more effective protagonist than most other Links.
 

The Merc

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Well, I'm talking from a more personal perspective on the Links as actual characters (not just as Smash characters). I personally find Toon Link to be a more effective protagonist than most other Links.
Really? How so?

:135:
 

False Sense

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Really? How so?

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Well, when you get down to it, all of the Links are pretty bland characters. That's one of the major drawbacks to being a silent protagonist. Since the character can't talk, and "character" they have has to come from how they react to the world, and how the world reacts to them.

In this respect, this is where the unique art style of Wind Waker is greatly beneficial. The more cartoon-esque look of the game allows for a lot more unique visual expressions out of the characters, allowing them to show a wider range of feelings and emotions without the need to use dialogue. Link himself benefits greatly from this; whereas older Links usually had only one or two facial expressions total, Toon Link is able to express joy, anger, fear, sadness, etc, and do so prominently thanks to the distinct art style. Being able to visually show all those emotions goes a long way into making Link feel like an actual human character, and not just a human-shaped block of code for the player to control.

What's more, Wind Waker presents a scenario in which Link is allowed to actually show some semblance of character. You see Link go into a blind rage when his sister is kidnapped. You see how torn up he is about leaving his home and his grandmother behind. What starts as a kid regretfully but adamantly leaving his home to try and rescue his sister eventually grows into a young man strong enough to leave home and go off on his own adventure. Little touches like that really do make a difference in taking a one-dimensional character and giving him something resembling depth and development.

One of the original ideas for the Legend of Zelda series was to tell the story of a boy growing over the course of his adventure. To that extent, I personally feel like Toon Link captured this best.
 
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