dash attack: yay or nay?

[goateeguy]

my understanding of the subject is that dash attacks are seldom used because 1. they're predictable, and 2. most of them have lots of lag from the characters stumbling afterwards.
it seems to me that falcon's dash attack has much less lag than a normal one, plus the move continues a ways after the move, instead of just stopping like link's for example, so even if it misses it's harder for an opponent to punish it. besides, the knockback is just really good, it's consistent, and at high damages it can get an opponent off the edge as efficiently as an fsmash (although with less damage)

it can also be used as a tap reset. this usually only works on a low damage opponent or on characters like link that don't slide much, but under those circumstances it can give just the right knockback to give you a grab.

yes, he does have less laggy moves, but sometimes a falcon dashing on the ground doesn't have time to get in the air to knee or needs to hit the opponent somehow to keep a combo moving, and then the dash attack works well for me. anyone found a flaw in my reasoning?

 

[Buh]

You can always have time to shffl a nair instead of dash attack.

 

[S2]

Definite NAY

Spend your time going for a grab or using a moving n-air.

The dash attack leaves you very open if you miss. If the opponent blocks it, then they have a guranteed shield grab.

With Falcon you want to be fast and hard to predict. Most of the time, the running attack is going to do the opposite since its a direct attack that leaves you open.

 

[jmic]

Jump: airborne on frame 5

Nair
Hitbox
Official name: Rotary Kick
Total: 44
Hit: 7-12, 20-29

5 + 7 = 12 frames to execute a perfect Nair

Dash A
Official name: Turbo Shoulder
Total: 39
Hit: 7-16
IASA: 38


NAY for approaching (you all know why), YAY for mindgames and keeping a combo going, like a surprise ultra-quick tech chase that causes people to miss their tech, due to the low trajectory. But never over use it.

Some fun things to know: at mid-percents, if you accidentally do a dash attack and sweetspot, your opponent sometimes is stunned long enough for you to Nair them or even grab them.

If you suck at Dthrow > dropzone, Dthrow > Dash attack still works pretty well and sets up for edgeguarding.

At low percents near the ledge, Dthrow > Dash attack > dropzone, which is definitely DI dependent, but nevertheless a hilarious thing to do.

The Dash attack has a very low hitbox as well. You can use it as an last-resort edge-guard for people missing their sweet spot.

Just keep in mind that this attack is very situational, last resort kind of attack.

 

[goateeguy]

Jump: airborne on frame 5

Nair
Hitbox
Official name: Rotary Kick
Total: 44
Hit: 7-12, 20-29

5 + 7 = 12 frames to execute a perfect Nair

Dash A
Official name: Turbo Shoulder
Total: 39
Hit: 7-16
IASA: 38


NAY for approaching (you all know why), YAY for mindgames and keeping a combo going, like a surprise ultra-quick tech chase that causes people to miss their tech, due to the low trajectory. But never over use it.

Some fun things to know: at mid-percents, if you accidentally do a dash attack and sweetspot, your opponent sometimes is stunned long enough for you to Nair them or even grab them.

If you suck at Dthrow > dropzone, Dthrow > Dash attack still works pretty well and sets up for edgeguarding.

At low percents near the ledge, Dthrow > Dash attack > dropzone, which is definitely DI dependent, but nevertheless a hilarious thing to do.

The Dash attack has a very low hitbox as well. You can use it as an last-resort edge-guard for people missing their sweet spot.

Just keep in mind that this attack is very situational, last resort kind of attack.

where'd you find that stuff? is there like a website with the specific frames of animation of every move?

 

[OmegaSephiroth]

Jump: airborne on frame 5

Nair
Hitbox
Official name: Rotary Kick
Total: 44
Hit: 7-12, 20-29

5 + 7 = 12 frames to execute a perfect Nair

Dash A
Official name: Turbo Shoulder
Total: 39
Hit: 7-16
IASA: 38


NAY for approaching (you all know why), YAY for mindgames and keeping a combo going, like a surprise ultra-quick tech chase that causes people to miss their tech, due to the low trajectory. But never over use it.

Some fun things to know: at mid-percents, if you accidentally do a dash attack and sweetspot, your opponent sometimes is stunned long enough for you to Nair them or even grab them.

If you suck at Dthrow > dropzone, Dthrow > Dash attack still works pretty well and sets up for edgeguarding.

At low percents near the ledge, Dthrow > Dash attack > dropzone, which is definitely DI dependent, but nevertheless a hilarious thing to do.

The Dash attack has a very low hitbox as well. You can use it as an last-resort edge-guard for people missing their sweet spot.

Just keep in mind that this attack is very situational, last resort kind of attack.

Quoted for truth. I personally don't use it much.

 

[jmic]

Falcon's frame data can be found in the Falcon Guide that's stickied.

Edit:

Mew2King's website contains frame data about EVERYTHING in smash, and also some other games as well.

http://hometown.aol.com/oovideogamegodoo/myhomepage/profile.html

 

[OmegaSephiroth]

Falcon's frame data can be found in the Falcon Guide that's stickied.

Edit:

Mew2King's website contains frame data about EVERYTHING in smash, and also some other games as well.

http://hometown.aol.com/oovideogamegodoo/myhomepage/profile.html

Thanks for the link.

 

[Hax]

this attack is seriously underrated. imo it has 2 serious uses. the first would be if you use it and end up on the other side of the opponent's shield. non-punishable moves are always good. second would be making your opponent miss a tech. there's a certain % for space animals to be at that makes them fall down from getting dash-attacked which you should all learn (i'm too sleepy to remember right now lol). dash-attack -> stomp is great because almost nobody will tech after you dash-attack them. i'm gonna go into training mode right now and see if i can get that % for you guys. brb i might edit this soon

 

[Juce]

jmic is my new hero.

posting before i had to

XD

 

[FoulPlay]

Nay.
Laggy, slow, has lot priority, space animals can **** it if predicted.

 

[technomancer]

Dash attack combos into nothing unless they DI into at just the right percent, and combos from nothing, and has no good uses aside from getting you grabbed. It does hokey damage and knockback, and unlike many character's dashattacks has no potential to cross up at all. There is no circumstance where dashattacking is intelligent because the range it operates in, despite whatever frame data you post, makes it more practical to use an aerial because you can simply jump in advance and que up the aerial to hit as you arrive, and though there are some spacings where Dashattacks can be a bit faster, we can all agree that those spacings are the most ******** spacings to use a dashattack ever.

Also, why not just JC grab?

... in the air to knee or needs to hit the opponent somehow to keep a combo moving, and then the dash attack works well for me. anyone found a flaw in my reasoning?

With faster reaction times you can always use a better move, but if you have an amazing combo that dash attack fits into nicely all the time then by all means.

 

[Hax]

the % i got for fox is 43 (for him to fall down)

oddly enough, falco falls down when hit at 43 about half the time, but always falls down if hit at 44

 

[Psychoace]

Nay.
Laggy, slow, has lot priority, space animals can **** it if predicted.

dash-attack -> stomp is great because almost nobody will tech after you dash-attack them

That will own a space animal.

 

[abit_rusty]

If I ever use it, it would be an accident. Better options IMO.

 

[Velox]

uselessafsfjdalfsjd

 

[StoleUrCar]

Not worth doing at all in my opinion. Even if you wanted to follow up it still lags you and they can just roll away. However...if you dash attack them off a ledge, well....there is a vid somewhere out there where someone does dash attack to knee...Dreamland I believe...(he dropzones it >.>)

 

[TheManaLord]

this attack is seriously underrated. imo it has 2 serious uses. the first would be if you use it and end up on the other side of the opponent's shield. non-punishable moves are always good. second would be making your opponent miss a tech. there's a certain % for space animals to be at that makes them fall down from getting dash-attacked which you should all learn (i'm too sleepy to remember right now lol). dash-attack -> stomp is great because almost nobody will tech after you dash-attack them. i'm gonna go into training mode right now and see if i can get that % for you guys. brb i might edit this soon

if a character has a decent up b they will always up b you out of their shield if you dash attack it

 

[goateeguy]

if a character has a decent up b they will always up b you out of their shield if you dash attack it

true, but that's character dependent. i'd never try this against a competent marth or bowser, but what about a space animal? the smash would either take too long or cancel out in which case nothing happens except you wind up back to back

Also, why not just JC grab?

cuz c. falcon's grab has less range than even his dash attack and is even more predictable cuz it slows him down. yes, it has more combo potential, but i'm talking about when such a luxury isn't an option

With faster reaction times you can always use a better move, but if you have an amazing combo that dash attack fits into nicely all the time then by all means.

as stated, the dash attack to stomp for space animals works apparantly well, havn't tried it yet

 

[Hax]

@manalord, that's why i really only use this attack for against spacies. dash attack -> stomp is seriously good, and when you weaken a spacies' shield they start spotdodging a LOT which means easy grabs if you predict.

 

[unnknownz]

nope i wouldnt use

 

[RaynEX]

if you're going to start dash attacking as a mindgame...

might as well start falcon kicking too. : /

 

[goateeguy]

if you're going to start dash attacking as a mindgame...

might as well start falcon kicking too. : /

that's an exaggeration. dash attacking is much faster and less laggy than falcon kick, and thus imo much more useful. it's still not as good a move as say the knee, but it has some uses. read the rest of the thread, there've been a few suggestions

 

[froz3ntear]

Dash attacks have their uses, sometimes it might be the only option... like if you're running towards a fox/falco who is far off and decides to illusion onto the stage, a dash attack that lasts pretty long is a nice option to use.

And falcon kicks do have their uses also.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Usually the dash attack is for mainly experienced players only. If you can get the move off with a counter afterwards to the prediction that occurs afterwards you should be fine in most cases. The dash attack in the beginning is mainly used for experience players only or just as a last resort kind of thing in my opinion. I mean, you dash then expect to be hit so you counter it, or you take the damage and just get the next hit in. Then again, this is just my outlook.

 

[chesterwester]

i rarely use the dash dance for a dash attack. try using a dash grab instead. psyching them out with a dash dance opens you up to great combos that start with grabbing.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Dash grab works well too, but most of the attacks in the game are just like the dash when you think about it. You need to be sly and quick about it. Think ahead and plan out in all circumstances and situations. Am I right?

 

[froz3ntear]

Dash grab works well too, but most of the attacks in the game are just like the dash when you think about it. You need to be sly and quick about it. Think ahead and plan out in all circumstances and situations. Am I right?

Not true, you can't think and plan out things you will do ahead or you will be predictable if you take the obvious route, you should be fighting countering your opponents every move one step at a time.

Also, people who don't see uses in the dash attack seem to be close minded, almost every one of CF's moves are useful. There are situations where you may Weak knee someone and they DI up, and the only attack left to hit them with is a dash attack that will fling them off the stage.