D.Gray-Man Mafia-Town Wins!

[#HBC | Laundry]

I'm gonna get a reread kicking during the Night phase. Honestly the only read I can say I'm comfortable about is a scum ****** and maybe a scum Asdioh, which makes me mad. But yea, don't lynch me I'm town and all that jazz.

If one flips scum, would your read change on the other?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

N o

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Why ?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Cuz I haven't reread, and can see their attacks on each other as either a bus or a legitimate attack. Their connections seem null to me, and their actions are both quite scummy.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

wgat

You see two people, who had wagons on them up to L-2 at the same exact time as well as a crossvote that read nothing like a bus at all, as scum together?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

You get me with the first point, but you're saying that that crossvote read nothing like a bus at all?! Especially with how convenient the timing of their crossvote was (iirc, when their respective wagons rose at the same time). You're high.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I'm not ruling the possibility out. Just it seemed incredibly unlikely. They were quite serious about it, considering they parked it there and left it despite both of them reaching L-2. That could be feigned, hence why I'm not ruling out bussing, but at the moment, without having reread recently, I doubt it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

You get me with the first point, but you're saying that that crossvote read nothing like a bus at all?! Especially with how convenient the timing of their crossvote was (iirc, when their respective wagons rose at the same time). You're high.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Wel p

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

（╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Oh good god I poisted in the wrong gmae. I'l piull up the quote.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

"@AA what are you doing posting in ths game arfent you dead<

Anyway, thiwnk it'd time to ahmmer July. Unless this beween Gova and Kuzingateor will continhue then we're just kinda geing dumb."

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well that top part doesnt make sense anymore.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

LOL @ gorf

No need to hammer, still some connections I want to re-read and things I want to do.

@WL: Thoughts on my stances list. What do you agree/disagree on and why? Thoughts on Gova specifically.

Asdioh and IR probably aren't on the same scumteam like Laundry says, but its not impossible.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Man why dont' people trust the gotrd? Why do you guy s think they arent scum with eachother?

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

Missed the 757, and my answer is that what I was trying to find out.

Bull.

That still goes both ways in my mind though, like it could be because you don't want a clear on an easy mislynch or it could be because of what you said.

Since when was laundry an easy mislynch? You also say this after my post where I say that Laundry is strong town after a scumJuly flip and leaning town regardless. You've also come to the conclusion I was lying about my guilty. With those two things in mind, are you honestly still undecided about whether my intentions were malicious?

Anyways, if I had to say off the top of my head, I would go with you and IR. IR for the things brought up already and I don't like the fact that you've been dodging my questions, especially about confirming WL as scum. Like it seemed to me like you knew already that you were going to make to D3 and then you would just tell us then.

You state here that I'd probably be your scum pick because I've apparently been vague about confirming WL as scum. You must obviously think I'm lying of the scummy variety or you would have had no reason to label as me with one of your scumpicks.

Regardless of that obvious stance, have you figured it out yet?

And I take connections with salt. I'm going to be looking at all my scum picks regardless of what anyone flips.

This is such a cop-out answer.

He didn't explain to me why he forgot Asdioh's name when he first mentioned all his scumpicks (despite tunneling him all D1) and still hasn't given me that answer. He also didn't clarify if scumEBR and scumIR reads come from a July scum flip or if they are independent scum reads.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

Man why dont' people trust the gotrd? Why do you guy s think they arent scum with eachother?

Because from their interaction in thread IR would have had to respond to the Asdioh bus with a quick vote of his own and he stayed on that wagon pretty much the entire day until the point where Asdioh could have gotten easily lynched. Asdioh, too, stayed on that wagon for a long time and pushed back with equal pressure. If they were both scum, one of them would have immediately looked for another outlet (that was given to them by you, Gorf).

That and Gova is scum with IR.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

They both left eachothr's wagon to go onto AA's (Hey convincing powers much? I'm like you now huh? Got the brawn but aint got no brain... Excuse mty terible humor(, and kept that empty feelign of "He's still a strong scum pick of mine".The way that yall cant find that to be more of a bus than nto baffles me.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

OH god I can't write ffs VLA till I get some sleep god dang!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

The rest realized this, and ca,e to a decision.

LOL Dark Hored you don't know crap how ti sptell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Inglorious Retards]

@IR: Which head posted this?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12919288&postcount=307

@IR: Same question about which head posting

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12937286&postcount=514

Both were posted by JTB.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Isn't it funny that this is the exact same thing July did to you D1? She wouldn't board your wagon early game because she said your posts didn't look like scumGheb. I also remember a post from D1 where she refused to accept IR scum because she didn't like the people on your wagon at the time. Let me go find that.

And you know that this is exactly what discredits Gorf's "case" on our playserslot so much? I highly suspect that you don't even understand the implications of his actions / posts. The problem is not that his interactions with July are what make him scummy - the problem is that he can't use that argument on us and in the same hand expect them to not apply to himself as well. If he says our interactions with July make us scum, then he's literally saying exactly the same thing about himself so I don't see why you'd earnestly agree with him there. He's essentially been doing X yesterDay and now he accuses *us* of being scum because we did X.

But I'm not saing he's scum because of that. It's his irrational flip onto AA that makes a lot less sense and that he's been constantly trying to marginalize and act as if our case on him was based on meta and his interactions with July. But meta is only a smaller part of our issues with him and his interactions with July are only problematic because he acts as if it was a scumtell in our case but it's supposed to be a null-tell in his case. It's a null-tell in *both* cases though.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

Oh I understand quite well what you're saying and what Gord is trying to do here.

The explanation: he's an idiot, but hasn't been nearly as scummy this game as I'd expect from him as scum. In fact, despite their brevity I get good vibes from his posts.

Furthermore the way you've been pushing him is absolute **** and you should know better regardless of whether its JTB or Gheb posting.

In my first skim of the thread like 6 days ago the bolded caught my eye

I'm confident in my abilities to read players and neither Asdioh nor Gordito play in fashion that resembles their town play - in the same hand I don't see too much pro-town coming from their play.

Gheb. is. spoonfeeding. us. information.

You'd never have said that as town because you would have had no need to assure others in your confidence because you'd just give them **** if they didn't do what you said, anyway. Way too cooperative and cautious just to make points on Gordito.

And you know that this is exactly what discredits Gorf's "case" on our playserslot so much? I highly suspect that you don't even understand the implications of his actions / posts. The problem is not that his interactions with July are what make him scummy - the problem is that he can't use that argument on us and in the same hand expect them to not apply to himself as well. If he says our interactions with July make us scum, then he's literally saying exactly the same thing about himself so I don't see why you'd earnestly agree with him there. He's essentially been doing X yesterDay and now he accuses *us* of being scum because we did X.

In regards to saying this, what connections have you made about a scumJuly and scumGord scum team? Literally all you said in response to Gord's callout is that the same concept applies to his slot as well and that she has given him pro-town credit in thread. Personally, I don't even remember her giving Gord that much pro-town credit and I read the thread yesterday. Even if she did, there is no way she was even close to being as underhanded about his slot as she was yours yesterDay and the varied levels do make a difference.

But then you just go on to day

But I'm not saing he's scum because of that.

So herp derp that was a useful paragraph then, huh?

However, upon rereading it became obvious to me that you were rather quick to join the AA wagon for shallow reasons despite you having him mentioned as a not-scum read more than once. You got a good explanation on that? Because right now you seemed to be more scared of a July scumflip and eager to make me the blame puppet in that scenario. It's already not a pro-town action to push a knee-jerk lynch upon a correct lynch on the previous Day. Why'd you make it so obvious is beyond me.

@bolded: That's exactly what you're trying to do.

So this is why you find him scum?

Didn't you also board aa's wagon with similar shallow reasoning that Gord did. Gord started that AA wagon as well, while you were the one to put him at L-1 so your point that he was quick to join is a blatant lie. You saying he's scared of a July scum-flip? From what I've seen he's been wanting to hammer her literally the entire Day, so nice job on that accusation too.

I think you need to re-read because despite his reasoning being meh, he did back up stance and he did explain time and time again why he chose that path and how his read changed. Even toDay when I called him out on it in my 714, he stuck to his guns in his 735.

It's his irrational flip onto AA that makes a lot less sense and that he's been constantly trying to marginalize and act as if our case on him was based on meta and his interactions with July. But meta is only a smaller part of our issues with him and his interactions with July are only problematic because he acts as if it was a scumtell in our case but it's supposed to be a null-tell in his case. It's a null-tell in *both* cases though.

You did open your case with "I know how to read people and this is not how townGord or townAsdioh plays." Derp. You still haven't even explained where and why it is a scum-tell in his case because I looked back focusing on you and it is scum-tell in your case.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

Yeah, except that meta-reasoning is far from the only thing I hold against you. Your sudden flip on AA still remains unexplained and unjustified. Let's not sweep issues like that under the rug - just by itself a meta-case doesn't hold any water and you know that. Which is why the fact needs to be emphasized that there is *more* to the case than just meta. And anti-town behaviour in *combination* with meta is something completely different than just meta because you leave out an important - the most important - component of the current issue with you. Don't downplay this to a mere meta-case.

Could you possibly say any less with more fluffy sentences? His flip on AA was justified. The only other thing drone on about in this paragraph is that Gord is trying to sweep your case under the rug or downplay it or what have you despite that clearly not being his intention.

So we should accept the fact that you "misread" her but our playerslot supposedly doing it is not OK [something you have not backed up yet]? When you have both been giving each other town-credit a lot? When your play has been quite anti-town regardless of any connection to July?

When did Gord say it was no okay for you to have misread the slot? He's saying that you boarded for the exact same reasoning he did (you providing no independent reasoning) and that you boarded at a much later date then he did. He definitely gets more justification for being on that wagon than you.

Even if you have had a "misread" as town you should be able to explain in retrospect what your thought process was and what affected your read on her that gave you pro-town vibes. Just saying "oh welp I thought she's town herpaderp deal with it ololol" isn't really adding anything against the issues I have with you.

@Bolded: I know you're scum but you don't have to be so obvious about it. Gord didn't say anything of that sort and your attempts to degrade his response to that is laughable.

Here was his response:

My flip on AA was absolutely justified. In fact, I was the first person to lay a vote on AA and gave complete justification for it. In fact, YOU were on that wagon too, and I can't remember it being for anything that I didn't say. Show me what wasn't justified.

Which you responded to with

Gorf, your 674 smells. Most of that post is about breaking my point into little fragments and respond with "no u" to most of them. Ignoring the fact that you're a hypocrite for accusing me of things you are doing yourself [and not even debunking them - just telling me they apply to me as well] you also fail to see that the sum of the issues against you amount to more than just "whoops, he misread her" or "whoops, he was kinda wrong about AA but he kinda justified it somewhere nobody remembers". All in all, it's more than just that and I think I've made that point pretty clear.

You don't even address what he said. Just dismiss as the entire thing as him going "herp derp, whoops I was wrong," even though he said nothing of the sort.

Your case on him looks pretty at a glance because of misinformation that you've stacked on the misinformation. But when anyone actually fact checks the stuff you're attacking Gord on, it's full of lies and underhanded attacks.

So yeah, I fully understand what Gord is doing which doesn't change the fact that I don't like what you've done 100% less.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

Just to further justify my point, here is where Gord started his reasoning for the AA wagon.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12921606&postcount=345

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12925356&postcount=413

Here is yours.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12937439&postcount=519

Man Gord's looking PRETTY BAD right now compared to IR's brilliant reasoning.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

Oh hey look. Now the Day isn't stagnating anymore and there's plenty to read and comment on.

Lets gogdamn do something before the deadline please.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Both were posted by JTB.

Don't use it as an excuse.

watching kuz is fun

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Just to further justify my point, here is where Gord started his reasoning for the AA wagon.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12921606&postcount=345

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12925356&postcount=413

Here is yours.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12937439&postcount=519

Man Gord's looking PRETTY BAD right now compared to IR's brilliant reasoning.

Nah, he has a point, scum usually only care about reads on them, but, i'm not playing favorites, and can see what you mean, however, your sudden 180 is making me scratch my head but if you can happen to get IR to flip scum, i may think differently, especially after all that has happened.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

They both left eachothr's wagon to go onto AA's (Hey convincing powers much? I'm like you now huh? Got the brawn but aint got no brain... Excuse mty terible humor(, and kept that empty feelign of "He's still a strong scum pick of mine".The way that yall cant find that to be more of a bus than nto baffles me.

They both left each other's wagons to go to aa at L-3 and L-1 respectively. Should be noted that IR only left your wagon once people started hopping off and going onto AA and he realized that the Asdioh lynch wasn't going through.

Asdioh hopped off way before then and tried to push Gova (one reason I like Asdioh more than others) and a few others before settling down on AA. IR's method was 10x scummier in context and really sticks out when you read the thread.

Also pretty funny to not thate Gova and IR have avoided each other like the plague (except a few times where Gova went out of his way to underhandedly protect IR and then Gova went on to not say anything about IR's alignment while IR had constantly had Gova at null) and have both had weird interactions with July. July would not board IR's wagon because of terrible reasoning that "her scumpick was residing there" and she came in and defended Gova hardcore from aa's passive suggestion to lynch him. She pretty much walled the **** out of aa until he was forced to back down and say he was fine with Gova.

Not to mention, Gova's RVS vote was the only place he did place his vote yesterDay and didn't even feel the need to move it once the entire time (and then subsequently forgets to mention him as a scum pick when I ask him about it). Pretty hard to forget the only person you push the entire game. Makes me think everything he's done this game has been fake.

Out of the three July had been definitely playing the best and I don't think I would have been able to lynch her toDay without this cop guilty so I'm glad RR chose wisely. She's difficult to get a handle on because she can confuse you with her long-winded counter attacks.

So yeah. July dies toDay. IR or Gova toMorrow. The remainder of the two on the following Day.

As an aside.

/AtE

Well the funny thing is I could imagine townJuly saying this if she had actually put time into the thread and proposed alternative routes to take after her townflip. As it is she has just sat here this entire day phase and said she's innocent.

So tell me July, who do we look after upon your townflip?

July was viewing the thread last night after I posted this and for some time afterwards. If she was town she would be in this thread right now chugging out information to be used after her flip. She isn't and has had no initiative to do anything instead of getting fake mad at the guilty on her while saying she's innocent. She's flipping scum, but you probably already knew that.

Vote: July

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

Nah, he has a point, scum usually only care about reads on them, but, i'm not playing favorites, and can see what you mean, however, your sudden 180 is making me scratch my head but if you can happen to get IR to flip scum, i may think differently, especially after all that has happened.

AA was probably asking me why I had a town read on him because I didn't provide any justification for it, which is true. People can ask about reads on them if the person providing the read seems fake in doing so or don't explain themselves. That's very very much fair game and an easy easy way to catch someone who's not being genuine.

What 180? IR was my main scumpick from yesterDay. All that has changed is that a total re-read and IR's attack on Gord makes me feel better about him and Gova has been playing terrible.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Kuz, i have a question. i'm really concerned about this, but did my defense of AA change your read?

have you looked at how IR responded to that defense? or perhaps, responded to the whole thing?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

your 180 on gord, it's gonna have to make me re-read things.

tableflip

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

Kuz, i have a question. i'm really concerned about this, but did my defense of AA change your read?

have you looked at how IR responded to that defense? or perhaps, responded to the whole thing?

Change your read on who?

Which defense specifically? I definitely remember reading your defense of IR and your defense of AA but I didn't give it any close attention. Should I be doing so?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

On me.

Yes, i think you should, my problem with gord was his push on AA, but i never really had IR at close attention, i think you need to notice how IR completely ignores AA completely and moves right to gord.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

your 180 on gord, it's gonna have to make me re-read things.

tableflip

Yeah its going to have to make you re-read. It made me re-read.

Trust me. Look at how Gord was playing before his attack on AA. Its actually quite good. His attack was bad then and it was not but I read it like 6 times and I've come to the conclusion that it is bad but not scummy.

He hasn't just mindlessly bandwaggoned. He started the wagon on AA out of nothing pretty much and he provided reasoning the entire way (regardless of how convincing it was). Even when I asked about it toDay he held strong to what he was pushing. In this case, I do just think he was wrong instead of having malicious intent behind it.

Read the exchange between IR and myself and try to tell me you don't see what I'm saying.

 

[Erupting Burning RYKERRR!!!]

On me.

Yes, i think you should, my problem with gord was his push on AA, but i never really had IR at close attention, i think you need to notice how IR completely ignores AA completely and moves right to gord.

Ask Ryker, we had you as our strongest town read from like post 100 on. Red Ryu came in at a close second as the Day came to a close.

Your defense of AA just affirmed what I already knew with like scary accuracy because you were saying the exact same thing I was planning on saying. Specifically the stuff where you've never seen townAA but you had that ultra gut read and that when viewing AA on a whole he looked fine but people were capitalizing on that one switch he had (the one from being on IR to not being on IR to being on IR). I could see a confused nubtownie doing it easy, as could you.

What are you talking about in the end part? D1? D2? I'm sure there are plenty of times IR ignored aa in favor of pushing Gorf, please be specific.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

He never seems to care or talk about gord at all but uses the AA flip to his advantage, basically.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Town:

Soup
RR

No problems here.

Null Leaning Town:

Gorf (curveball, ik)
WL (upon a scum july flip he moves up to strong town; upon town july he's remains here)
Bardull GLG Someone

I don't understand a null-leaning-town read on GLG. He's had one case this entire game--me--and he hasn't posted anything else (I think Bardull was replaced by Zen). You've explained your Gorf read and I kinda see it because I was thinking he was town for the same reasons. I just can actually see him as scum now thanks to what you guys are saying. Again, his actions don't look too dissimilar to July's. I'm not saying to lynch him off that but it's certainly something I'd like to look into.

Completely Null because of inactivity:

Zen

Herp derp.

Null:

Asdioh

Scum:

IR
Gova
July

You two have been beating the scumIR thing all damn game, I'll give you that. Asidoh replacing him makes a lot of sense as one or the other could easily be scum but not the both of them (probably). I can also see how Gova works too. While I don't have the same full belief that Gova is scum, I have been getting more worried about his play as time has passed in this game. He's been deliciously null even when asked to do good things and he just kinda sits there and keeps asking for things like your information that proves me scum (when you were lying about that) and your read/case on...who was it, IR? Soup? in d1. Instead of giving content himself, he keeps demanding content from you while writing outs for himself whenever he can. It seems weird. I can agree with the read.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Because of my vacation can't post much sent my cop in just in case I can't post in the future.

 

[th3kuzinator]

He never seems to care or talk about gord at all but uses the AA flip to his advantage, basically.

That's what I've been saying this entire time.

Didn't seem to have much problem with Gord's reasoning when he boarded AA on D1 and now seems to have a huge problem with it toDay (saying he didn't justify his reasoning or w/e) now that it has come down to analyzing the wagon.

If IR really thought his reasoning was ****, why didn't he confront him about it yesterDay before the wagon built?

Because he's being opportunistic.