Custom Tournament Stages

[nuro]

Before we start, I would like to say something. For starters, I am not sure if custom tournament stages are a good idea. I bet many of you can think of some problems that would occur if custom stages were allowed in tournaments. But, this thread is to be able to discuss those problems and potentially find a way to implement custom stages into tournament play. With that said, let me talk about a few things.

I doubt tournaments would craft stages specifically for tournament play. Rather, I think a player would create an awesome stage that is adapted by tournaments instead. This is why I think a thread like this should be posted here instead of the SBR.

Map distribution can be achieved by having a site/thread merely have the map for download.

The custom stage can simply be an option. People who bring Wiis to tournaments can have the map downloaded to their Wii if they please. Most likely, everybody wont have the map downloaded on their Wii but this isn't a problem because a tournament can still be run. If players are assigned to a Wii they may pick the custom stage if it's there. If the Wii doesn't have the custom stage players can simply choose from other stages.

Map distribution is harder with SD Cards than it is online in such veins as UT or Halo, which makes it harder to make a custom map popular.. So custom maps may not be as popular for tournament play. However, lets assume for a second that custom tournament stages CAN work. Maybe in the future of SSBB custom stages will eventually become popular.

At first people may assume a good tournament level will be a floating platform in the middle that's completely flat and utterly boring.. After all, simplicity is key. However, I think that there are possibilities for stages to be unique, simple and tournament legal.

At first, I think tournaments should add the custom stages as counter picks and eventually the stages may become neutrals. Ultimately, it's up to the tournament host to decide.

___

I think I made an awesome stage that can be used in tournaments. I have played on this stage with my friends and they gave me positive feedback. When the stage was first made we thought of some of its problems that kept it from becoming tournament legal and made adjustments to it. We now are at a place where we can't see anything that is keeping the stage back from becoming tournament legal. This is what got me to decide to make this thread.

Here is the stage. I like this one the most.
Video, Pic, SWF DL, AiB DL

What's important about creating a custom tournament stage is that the distance from the base of the stage to the death zones should be the same distance as the other neutral stages. Since there aren't any options for spacing death zones in stage builder, the bottom death zone needs to be very low compared to the rest of the stage. I didn't want the stage to be completely flat since it is extremely dull so I added falling block to the mix. If you know what you are doing you wont be getting gimped by easily, so, I think they are appropriate for a tournament stage.


These are some other versions of the stage:
Video, Pic
Video, Pic2
Video 2, Pic 3


The stages are all set at small.

I would appreciate it if you guys would leave me feedback about what I can do to improve the stage. Please tell me any problems you find with it, music or background you prefer for it or anything else.

If anyone else has a stage they would like to share feel free.

 

[omegawhitemage]

The problem with this is that you can't have a tournament where a Wii may have a stage and may not. If a stage is going to be allowed on either list then it needs to be available on 100% of the playable Wii's. If it's not then it shouldn't be used in the tournament. The problem with custom stages is and always will be that everyone won't have it. Meaning some people won't get to practice on it etc...and while it seems like a small issue if the stage is simple enough, you should still be able to get a feel for a stage before you have to play on it, regardless of how simple it may or may not be. Custom tournament stages are and always will be a hassle that tournament hosts shouldn't have to deal with.

 

[person701]

I'm all for custom stages being tournie legal. They give TOs to make balanced stages and other such things that may invlove stage problems. Now problem with this, is that there are some arguments to it.

1.) There are glitches. Some involve jumping through corners of roofs if a stage has one (though there reallly shouldn't be any roofs). I've seen vertically moving platforms cause telporting glitches. If we could combine a general knowledge of these glitches, it wouldn't be so bad.

2.) Certain characters can wall stick (or whatever it's called). I don't even know why this is an argument because all that really needs to be done is to make stages one block thick to prevent those character that can stick from hanging WAY out of reach. This techniques can be banned. However if they preceed to argue with...

3.) "There's no side to assist players back to the edge." Why do you need this? The edgesnap in the stage builder is within the range of the block next to the edge you can grab. This I have tested. And if it's the old "Stuck under stage" come back, Look at Melee Battlefield, Rainbow Cruise, Corneria, and Jungle Japes for examples. Those did find in tournies for neutral/counterpicks.

The problem with custom stages is and always will be that everyone won't have it

I'm taking my say into this post if you don't mind. But, if you don't have a stage a tournie will be using, I believe it would be your responciblility to check with the TO. If not that and it's being advertised on the web, put a picture with slight description. A childish thought none the less, but it works.

Now, I'm not trying to start arguments or get off topic, but I'm pointing out what people are gonna say nuro. Yet again, I support.

 

[omegawhitemage]

I'm taking my say into this post if you don't mind. But, if you don't have a stage a tournie will be using, I believe it would be your responciblility to check with the TO. If not that and it's being advertised on the web, put a picture with slight description. A childish thought none the less, but it works.

This is false, the TO is always the one responsible for making sure everything on every station is in order. Making players or whoever decides to bring a Wii to the venue to help DL a custom stage is more work for the player and more work for the TO. As it is we have 17+ stages that see regular tournament play, why do we need more? I think that's more than enough considering most tournament only allow 2 bans (one random, one CP) that's a minimum of 13 stages you need to know how to play on. While I'm not against adding to the list, I don't feel custom stages is the way to do it.

 

[person701]

I see where your getting and I'll agree with you. Just throwing my thoughs out there.

 

[nuro]

The problem with this is that you can't have a tournament where a Wii may have a stage and may not. If a stage is going to be allowed on either list then it needs to be available on 100% of the playable Wii's. If it's not then it shouldn't be used in the tournament. The problem with custom stages is and always will be that everyone won't have it. Meaning some people won't get to practice on it etc...and while it seems like a small issue if the stage is simple enough, you should still be able to get a feel for a stage before you have to play on it, regardless of how simple it may or may not be. Custom tournament stages are and always will be a hassle that tournament hosts shouldn't have to deal with.

I don't see why having every Wii with the custom stage is such a big deal. Everyone who has a match is usually assigned to a Wii. If the Wii doesn't have the custom stage then the players can pick a different stage. To prevent players from complaining just tell them that the Wii they are assigned to is what they play on with or without the custom stages. If this rule is enforced eventually people will probably begin to download the stages making them almost on every Wii.

Or there is option 2. The stage may only be played if both players agree on it.

I don't think this is a big hassle and I think players will support it since we are adding more stages to the mix and making the game more enjoyable for them to play on.

I think TOs should be keeping things lively for their attendees.

 

[Mic_128]

I personally don't see any major reason why it can't be done. As said, yeah, it could be a pain for people who don't have it, but as I suggested somewhere else, if a stage is chosen, have the stage stickied somewhere here for a month+ for people to get used to, then after the warmup time it can then be added to the lists.

And as for adding it to separate Wiis, one SD card needs to have it, then just copy it onto the other Wii's. Probably take 5 minutes max for something like 20 Wiis.

Oh and Nuro, be sure if you haven't already, to add the stage to our stage browser.

www.smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php

though if custom stages ever do work, it'll be a while before they're discussed, seeing as stages that are already ingame are still being voted on.

 

[phish-it]

I don't see why having every Wii with the custom stage is such a big deal. Everyone who has a match is usually assigned to a Wii. If the Wii doesn't have the custom stage then the players can pick a different stage. To prevent players from complaining just tell them that the Wii they are assigned to is what they play on with or without the custom stages. If this rule is enforced eventually people will probably begin to download the stages making them almost on every Wii.
Or there is option 2. The stage may only be played if both players agree on it.

I don't think this is a big hassle and I think players will support it since we are adding more stages to the mix and making the game more enjoyable for them to play on.

I think TOs should be keeping things lively for their attendees.

What happens if you are assigned to play on a station that doesn't have a certain counterpick stage unlocked. Say it is one of the counterpick stages you personally like to choose. What happens then?

Granted, when used at a tournament is mandatory to have all the stages, characters and everything unlocked, so if some stations are going to be using the custom stage, all of them should.

 

[nuro]

What happens if you are assigned to play on a station that doesn't have a certain counterpick stage unlocked. Say it is one of the counterpick stages you personally like to choose. What happens then?

Granted, when used at a tournament is mandatory to have all the stages, characters and everything unlocked, so if some stations are going to be using the custom stage, all of them should.

It is up to the players to not to rely on custom stages for counterpicks.

If a tournament decides to include custom stages they should state in the rules that custom stages may not be on every Wii so it is up to players to deal with the situation.

A player should enter the match assuming the custom stage isn't there but if it ends up being there it is an option for the player to play it.

And as a bonus if people start complaining that the custom stage isn't on every Wii that will possibly get more Wii owners to download the custom stage.

 

[omegawhitemage]

If a tournament doesn't have all available stages on all available set-ups then the TO has a major problem. You can't simply assign certain players to certain TV's, that's a logistical nightmare. And let's say a certain TV has the custom stage but not another counterpick stage I want to use, what do you do then? Keeping a record of those who want to use the stage and only sending them to certain set-ups is ridiculously inefficient. We have everything unlocked on every console because we need to be able to send anyone anywhere in order to run an efficient tournament. It just doesn't make sense to only have some set-ups with the stage and some without, I'll say it again, that's a logistical nightmare.

 

[kamekasu]

But you'd have to put all customs on random, and some people who bring Wiis don't want to delete their custom stages.

 

[nuro]

If a tournament doesn't have all available stages on all available set-ups then the TO has a major problem. You can't simply assign certain players to certain TV's, that's a logistical nightmare. And let's say a certain TV has the custom stage but not another counterpick stage I want to use, what do you do then? Keeping a record of those who want to use the stage and only sending them to certain set-ups is ridiculously inefficient. We have everything unlocked on every console because we need to be able to send anyone anywhere in order to run an efficient tournament. It just doesn't make sense to only have some set-ups with the stage and some without, I'll say it again, that's a logistical nightmare.

Stages made by the creators of the game should be mandatory since they are easy to get since most people like to unlock everything anyway.I will say it again custom stages don't always need to be there. If the player wants to complain about it then the player should complain to the owner of the Wii for not downloading the stage. If it is stated in the tournament rules that not every Wii will have the custom stage people will take that into account.

I am quite sure people will understand the situation and agree to those terms. After all, its just there as an option so it shouldn't be interfering with anything.


But, since you seem to think that is such a logistical nightmare I say try this. First, allow people to play the stage only if both players agree. If there is positive feedback maybe then you can enforce the stage more. If not keep it as it is with both players agreeing.

But you'd have to put all customs on random, and some people who bring Wiis don't want to delete their custom stages.

It can be a counterpick. Most people don't even play with custom stages so I doubt they will care if they have to delete all their stages. All of the friends I have who go to tournaments only play on tournament legal stages so I bet they will delete their custom stages if they get another tournament legal one.

 

[person701]

What happens if you are assigned to play on a station that doesn't have a certain counterpick stage unlocked. Say it is one of the counterpick stages you personally like to choose. What happens then?

Granted, when used at a tournament is mandatory to have all the stages, characters and everything unlocked, so if some stations are going to be using the custom stage, all of them should.

Good point here. This is why it would be important for all Wiis to have the stage downloaded.

But you'd have to put all customs on random, and some people who bring Wiis don't want to delete their custom stages.

I believe the first post said counter-picks not neutrals ^-^

I don't think the real big question is whether custom stages should be legal. I think of the big Q being how/what would be the most efficent way of being able to implement them into tournies via downloads. With that, you can't just hope to download all the stages via SD card the day of the tournie becuase it sets those who have the stage at the advantage over others that don't. I think the strongest thing that could be done is having both players agree upon the stage. But then again, there are those who whould refuse it, so this whole thing is still a toss up

 

[nuro]

Here is another version of the stage. I like this one the most.

Video, Pic

Can anyone make the stage and put it online?

www.smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php



I'm thinking about asking Tom (Vigil) to add the stages as counterpicks if people agree on them.

 

[Yuna]

No custom content that isn't merely aestethic (as in modifying your characters' costumes) are allowed in tournaments. A simple reason would be that to allow custom content, you're no longer playing the game you're dealt.

This is different from merely turning off certain stages and items as that's customizing your game using the options given to you by the game itself. To forcefully create something new is to essentially hack the game in your own image, you're changing the game to suit your needs. And where would it stop? Action Replaying away tripping? AR nerfing Snake and Meta-Knight and then the entire Top Tier, making everyone Mid Tier? AR-removing certain stupid flaws in certain stages to make them less stupid or unbannable?

We play the game we're dealt. Certain options we can change, within the parameters given. But to create a new "game", that is never OK in Competitive fighting (all Competitive fighting game tournaments universally ban all custom content).

 

[xxLinkGodxx]

No custom content that isn't merely aestethic (as in modifying your characters' costumes) are allowed in tournaments. A simple reason would be that to allow custom content, you're no longer playing the game you're dealt.

This is different from merely turning off certain stages and items as that's customizing your game using the options given to you by the game itself. To forcefully create something new is to essentially hack the game in your own image, you're changing the game to suit your needs. And where would it stop? Action Replaying away tripping? AR nerfing Snake and Meta-Knight and then the entire Top Tier, making everyone Mid Tier? AR-removing certain stupid flaws in certain stages to make them less stupid or unbannable?

We play the game we're dealt. Certain options we can change, within the parameters given. But to create a new "game", that is never OK in Competitive fighting (all Competitive fighting game tournaments universally ban all custom content).

Lol, wtf are you smoking. We arent talking about playing with AR were simply trying to make more stages. Creating stages is in the game not outside of the game or whatever your trying to persuade people in thinking. If anything custom stages makes more sense since they are being made with the intent of being tournament legal which isn't the intent of more than half of the stages that are already in the game.

And on another note who cares if other games don't allow custom content. Its like a little girl telling her parents how all her friends are doing it so she should get to do it too. But the parents dont care about what her friends are doing. Smash is a completely different game from stuff like fps, rts, or even 90% of the fighters.

u made no sense whatsoever with that lame post

i for one am all for having more stuff added to the game. after all it isnt all that difficult to just make a stage and stick it into wiis.

 

[Yuna]

To forcefully go into the game and alter it either by hacking or just creating custom content (in Competitive play) is frowned upon (in Competitive play).

It's not that different from AR-hacking. You're introducing things that were never in the game to begin with, stages to your liking. If the game is so bad there's not any stages good enough for Competitive play, then abandon the game. Don't alter the game or make up your own stages. This is how it's been in Competitive gaming for decades.

The Competitive fighting game communities of the world have created certain base principles and rules which are pretty universal. It's kinda like how murder is still murder and illegal in the United Kingdom even if you're from the United States.

Different game or not, the principles of Competitive fighting gaming are still the same.

 

[xxLinkGodxx]

I am going to highlight everything in ur post that didnt make sense to me. All the highlighted stuff made you sound dumb in my opinion. All my comments are in red.

To forcefully whats so forceful abuot adding a stage as a counteripck and only allowing it to be played if both players agree?
go into the game and alter we arent "altering" anything we are only "adding" more stuff as an "option" it either by hacking wtf are you serious? this word is a noobs word for **** they dont understand or just creating custom content (in Competitive play) is frowned upon by who you? (in Competitive play).

It's not that different from AR-hackingyes it is. You're introducing things that were never in the game to begin stage builder was in the game to begin with with, stages to your liking. If the game is so bad there's not any stages good enough for Competitive play, then abandon the game the game isnt bad for competitive play lol we arent abandoning anything and what does this have to do with custom stages?. Don't alter the game or make up your own stages why not?. This is how it's been in Competitive gaming for decades.Yeah, because we never had stagebuilder before in ssb64 or melee and dont try to compare smash to any other game because its a lot different.

The Competitive fighting game communities of the world have created certain base principles and rules which are pretty universal. It's kinda like how murder is still murder and illegal in the United Kingdom even if you're from the United States.O rly? so how is that related to custom stages?
Different game or not, the principles of Competitive fighting gaming are still the same how can u say that? stage builder wasnt in melee or 64.

 

[Yuna]

I'm sorry, did you just equate "Competitive fighting gaming" to "The Smash Franchise", on top of being able to follow the Terms of Usage of Smashboards, being unable to understand the concept of "This is how Competitive fighting games have worked for decades" (and this should've been a huge clue to that "Competitive fighting games" =/= "The Smash Franchise"), unable to understand the concept of changing the game (yes, adding a new stage is changing the game, even if you're only using tools provided by you by the game itself, just as creating custom characters in, say, Soul Calibur III is changing the game and banned in tournaments (even before there was an arcade version to go by)?

 

[xxLinkGodxx]

I'm sorry, did you just equate "Competitive fighting gaming" to "The Smash Franchise", on top of being able to follow the Terms of Usage of Smashboards, being unable to understand the concept of "This is how Competitive fighting games have worked for decades" (and this should've been a huge clue to that "Competitive fighting games" =/= "The Smash Franchise"), unable to understand the concept of changing the game (yes, adding a new stage is changing the game, even if you're only using tools provided by you by the game itself, just as creating custom characters in, say, Soul Calibur III is changing the game and banned in tournaments (even before there was an arcade version to go by)?

so ur saying we should follow the rules of every other fighter? lol

this isnt shoryouken this is smashboards

we should just follow every other games rules and relate it exactly to smash because if it worked for them it shuold work for smash too... right? I mean look at mvc2 the first person to get a lightkick in wins.

And I guess SCIII rules are great. I mean, even though no one plays it, we should definitely follow their rules. The game is so broken too I guess smash should consider following its rules.

 

[Yuna]

We should "follow the rules" unless there's credible reasons for why we shouldn't. Those rules were put in state for a reason. We cannot randomly do as we please and for what? "It'll be more fun"? That's a very slippery slope.

 

[BloodMagnumX]

Oh joy, another war over fighting games. Yuna's whining again and all hell's about to break loose. To each their own. If the TO decides to do their rules, what can the player have against him? If you don't like the rules, then don't play at that tournament. I think that we could add certain custom stages to the list of accepted stages, so they would be generally available (as in, someone makes a stage and releases it to the public, it catches the eye of Smashboards, and is added to the list, along with a "download" link)

Yuna, this isn't players bringing in custom content to suit themselves, as in SC3. This is a TO using a mechanic of the game to better the experience for everyone else. Stage Builder is built into the game, unlike AR and whatnot. It's a part of it, not new content, and the stages used can be made available to anyone with an SD card. The rules are not set in stone, so let's play with 'em a little.

 

[Yuna]

Yuna, this isn't players bringing in custom content to suit themselves, as in SC3. This is a TO using a mechanic of the game to better the experience for everyone else. Stage Builder is built into the game, unlike AR and whatnot. It's a part of it, not new content, and the stages used can be made available to anyone with an SD card. The rules are not set in stone, so let's play with 'em a little.

So is Create a Soul or whatever it's called in Soul Calibur III. Heck, so are unlockable weapons in Special Versus. I'm just saying, it's a slippery slope and, really, once you start changing the game itself instead of just fiddling with settings (like items and the Stage Switch because a lot of games use "un-default" settings, like in number of rounds, the timer, Neutral Guard (again, SC), etc.), you're no longer playing the game you were dealt, you're creating a new game to suit you.

It's actually even worse than Create a Soul in SCIII since CoS:es in SCIII are pretty limited. I haven't really explored it, but I you can only give each character one moveset and each moveset is pre-defined. A Monk will always be exactly the same (moveset-wise) as another Monk, as opposed to a Stage Builder stage which, while using a limited number of resources, can be pretty much any way you want it to.

In other words, a Thief will always be a Thief but a custom Brawl stage will never be the exact same as another custom Brawl stage unless specifically made to be so.

 

[person701]

Ok then. Again, we aren't talking about using the stages to benifit players. The way I see it, we should come up with stages that will be balanced for all characters. Obviously, there are certain "holes" that we can't control in stage builder. Why this would be related to hacking, I don't know. As for no longer playing the game you delt with, look at Halo3 competitive. They've gone completly indepth changing greatly from H2 to H3. They've even added 2 custom stages.

The main point in this topic is not that we should come up with unfair stages or a plortha of them, but find one or two that are equal for each character. Like in the first post, "Simplcity is best."

 

[Yuna]

Ok then. Again, we aren't talking about using the stages to benifit players. The way I see it, we should come up with stages that will be balanced for all characters. Obviously, there are certain "holes" that we can't control in stage builder. Why this would be related to hacking, I don't know. As for no longer playing the game you delt with, look at Halo3 competitive. They've gone completly indepth changing greatly from H2 to H3. They've even added 2 custom stages.

The main point in this topic is not that we should come up with unfair stages or a plortha of them, but find one or two that are equal for each character. Like in the first post, "Simplcity is best."

That raises more problems:
There is no truly fair stage for all characters. And certainly no such stages that can be created that don't already exist in one form or another as a Brawl stage (because at least Sakurai wasn't that incompetent).

In order to create a stage that's "equal for each character", you'd have to create a stage with, like, 10-20-30 transformations, each random... which you can't in Stage Builder as far as I know. And that would create the problem that the advantage would then be completely random, whoever gets the most favourable stage transformations gets the advantage.

No stage is equal for each character, there just aren't any (at least not in Brawl, because of how characters work, their recoveries, combos, camping, strats, etc.). Some are just a lot more balanced than others. Stage Builder cannot possibly create a stage that's equal for each character or even a stage that's equal for 75% of the characters.

Because by "equal", you mean each character has roughly the same chances of winning, right? Or do you simply mean "Taking every single 'natural advantage' into consideration"? Because then there already exist stages like that.

 

[nuro]

Sorry, I havent posted in here in a while because ive been busy IRL and havent had time until now at least.

Anyway, Yuna please just listen to other peoples' ideas even if they don't agree with them. Most of your arguments aren't very persuasive either. I don't think you should have a right to bash on this idea if you have never seen it happen in a tournament before. Your completely missing the point of this thread.

Anyway since I gave late notice to the tournament custom stages werent used.

I don't know if they will ever be added or not and to be honest I don't really care. I just had time to make this thread and wanted to see if people would pick up the idea or not for the future.

Custom stages has mostly gotten positive responses from the people i talked to so I can see this idea happening eventually.

Maybe someone else can take the idea from here I really don't feel like trying to make this work since I don't host tournaments or have a way to get a vote on it.

 

[Yuna]

It's bashing now when you say "I don't think this is a good idea and this is why", while staying perfectly calm and civil? People need to stop crying "Flaming!", "Bashing!", "Negative nancy!" whenever someone says anything that's not 100% positive.

 

[xxLinkGodxx]

He said you shouldn't bash the idea if u never seen it in a tournament not because of what u said. ur interpreting the wrong way.

If people are crying flaming, bashing, and negative nancy maybe they are right. ;p

and btw I think I am done posting in this thread because of people like u Yuna Your too weird for me to talk to lol. I think u made this thread this thread collapse when u posted in it. Good job.

 

[The Real Inferno]

Sometimes I wish there would be an internet-wide ban on using u and ur instead of you and you're/your.

I personally don't see any major reason why it can't be done. As said, yeah, it could be a pain for people who don't have it, but as I suggested somewhere else, if a stage is chosen, have the stage stickied somewhere here for a month+ for people to get used to, then after the warmup time it can then be added to the lists.

And as for adding it to separate Wiis, one SD card needs to have it, then just copy it onto the other Wii's. Probably take 5 minutes max for something like 20 Wiis.

I completely agree with this statement. While we can't decide right away on any neutral/counterpick custom stages, I think that in the future tournaments will be open to such content. SWF would be great at setting a standard of tournament legal custom stages for TO's to choose from, creating a sort of "catalog" of tournament approved material. Every custom stage would need to be thoroughly playtest to make sure it is devoid of any exploitable glitches as well.

As for Yuna whom everyone seems to be fighting with:

No custom content that isn't merely aestethic (as in modifying your characters' costumes) are allowed in tournaments. A simple reason would be that to allow custom content, you're no longer playing the game you're dealt.

This is different from merely turning off certain stages and items as that's customizing your game using the options given to you by the game itself. To forcefully create something new is to essentially hack the game in your own image, you're changing the game to suit your needs. And where would it stop? Action Replaying away tripping? AR nerfing Snake and Meta-Knight and then the entire Top Tier, making everyone Mid Tier? AR-removing certain stupid flaws in certain stages to make them less stupid or unbannable?

We play the game we're dealt. Certain options we can change, within the parameters given. But to create a new "game", that is never OK in Competitive fighting (all Competitive fighting game tournaments universally ban all custom content).

Why do arguments follow you around like a plague? Is it your avatar? Because that thing scares the **** out of me. Anyway, I think that while your original post is making use of the straw man and slippery slope fallacies, you still have a valid point. The problem with this line of thinking is that it automatically assumes the custom stage only benefits the original creator and/or a select group of people. While this is totally possible it ignores the possibility of setting a system of approvals to help eliminate such troubles. Perhaps if the back room reviewed such possible stages in much the same way they review the current available stages then they won't be any issues.

On the other hand you note that all competitive fighting games ban custom content. As far as I know, this is absolutely true. However, Smash isn't much like most other fighting games in the first place. Even though custom content is usually banned (this is often due to some degree of "brokenness" being brought into the game, most notably custom movesets like in the competitive Smackdown vs Raw 2008 scene right now in that everyone has the same moveset), Since we are changing something about the environment the characters battle in, instead of the characters themselves, essentially it isn't as large of an impact on the way the game is played. Of course it impacts it to some degree and each custom stage would benefit certain playstyles more than others just like every stage in brawl already does.

The conclusion I find through all this is not that all custom content should be banned, but rather that when all standard stages are set for legality it should be re-reviewed and a system of approvals should be set up in order to explore the concept further. I would highly enjoy more playable stages for one to add a little bit more variety to the pool.

 

[Yuna]

I'm not saying custom stages will automatically be broken. I'm saying there are reasons for why custom content is banned and I think they still apply. And it's impossible to make a stage that's 100% neutral for all characters or even that ensures all characters have a pretty equal chance of winning when you put aside natural differences in metagame.

 

[The Real Inferno]

I'm not saying custom stages will automatically be broken. I'm saying there are reasons for why custom content is banned and I think they still apply. And it's impossible to make a stage that's 100% neutral for all characters or even that ensures all characters have a pretty equal chance of winning when you put aside natural differences in metagame.

Well more than likely they would be counterpick only. But as we've both already said obviously they would favor some characters more than others, that's the way stages work. And while I understand -why- you say the custom content will be banned, I cannot agree with you on this, as I feel the only thing holding it back is that no one (of importance) has tried doing it yet, and those that have, have done so with very little effiency. Its the main reason I recommend the setting up of a system for such things to begin with. Nor do I recommed that every tournament must use this standard custom content at all, as that would still be up to the sole discression of the TO in the long run.

 

[Percon]

I can definitely see this happening... but not right now. Maybe a few years down the line, if something is needed to breathe new life into the game, it could come in the form of a simple neutral stage. Having just one extra stage thrown in could disrupt the (stale?) metagame.

Making a completely fair stage is just absurd, but making a stage just as fair as the current neutrals should be no problem, especially if it's carefully analyzed by the back room. And having a neutral custom stage is entirely possible. All one would have to do is put 75m (or some other hopeless stage) on random, and whenever you go there just quit out and go to the custom stage... a simple solution, really. It might be a tad annoying, but I doubt that would take more than 20 seconds. With many people removing LC from the neutrals list another neutral would be welcome, IMO. (I sure hope then don't make LC a counterpick.... >_>)

Counterpick custom stages would work too, I guess.

Getting it on all the wiis would be no problem either. The tournament organizer should have everything set up before the tournament starts. It'll be his/her responsibility to go to each setup and get the stage on each (either with an SD card transfer or make it manually if it's simple enough. Making it manually shouldn't be too tough...). Small tournaments might have 20 setups, and this could be accomplished within a half hour. Big tournaments will have more... but there's usually more staff to help with things of that nature. After a few tournaments most wiis will already have the stage on it, especially if one is approved by the back room and standardized.

Just my thoughts... we've still got a while to go beforet this needs to be talked about.

 

[person701]

Yes Percon, not now, possibly later.

And of course it's silly to assume one could make a perfectly balanced stage. By balanced I ment this: The stage would cut back on certain character's strengths to assist the other player and give more of a chance to win. However, yes I do see a problemin this also: Advanced Slob picks...

And Yuna, I ask you to please stop. This thread was made so everyone could throw in their own opinions as to if they think customs should be legal or not. You're kind of "knitpicking" in a sense. We're suggesting our thoughts and you're comming in and attempting to shoot them down with counters and your own opinions. We relize there are problems and I've stated some myself. There are reasons why we should/shouldn't use them and we get that. So please, stop.

 

[Punishment Divine]

I don't think it's impossible to make a non-broken custom stage.

Personally, I would just make a Melee-style Final Destination since this game's is meh with the gay lip.

That wouldn't be broken at all, and of course it would be tested for a month or two before usage.

 

[vigiliante]

I don't think there all that bad I mean look at Halo 3 they change there settings all the time and no one complains about that. I am willing to try custom stages as long as they are not broken. I will have to let my superior intelect make the decsion and have nobody else's opinion matter because they are peasants.

 

[nuro]

If anyone is able to make a poll AIM me please

 

[mysticwolf]

it would not be a good idea. People would be able to make stages give certain characters advantages. Thats not fair. Period.

 

[Adam_CUTIE]

my fav custom stage i've seen is Hyli's version of Hyrule Castle from ssb64 which is an AMAZING stage

 

[nuro]

The stage is now up for download.

SWF
AiB

 

[Iggyhopper]

^ I think that has one too many moving platforms. ^