Custom special strings, combos, and setups. (video included)

[DanGR]

Hey guys. I made a video about some combos/strings/setups utilizing Rosalina's custom specials. My goal is to emphasize that Luma Warp is her best side-b, and to promote healthy discussion about its best use cases.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Well this is super convenient since @ Amazing Ampharos was lamenting a general lack of custom-oriented discussion.

Also very nice work. In my own limited experience I thought Luma Warp worked nicely as almost an instant extension of Luma's hitboxes since it comes out so fast, but this is a step above that. I really need to start practicing some of these for myself.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I've been using default neutral for the space Luma covers (it's also a kill move!), but Luma Warp is a move I always thought was an interesting option. I'll have to explore it more for sure; it seems to really improve Rosalina's ability to project Luma, but there's a mid-range that gets harder to cover that as a Rosalina beginner intimidated me but might be easier to handle now that I'm a bit better with her.

But yeah, Shooting Star Bit is just nasty; I think what was shown there is only the beginning of what that move is going to do for Rosalina.

 

[DanGR]

It seems to me that the default neutral-b is just easier to use as opposed to actually being the better option for covering that mid-range space you're talking about.

Luma warp's teleport speed and low cooldown gives it more versatility in a neutral standoff from a mid-far range away. The default is easier to use in part because of the lasting hitbox as it travels, but I don't think it should have much use in a mid-short range away neutral game anyways because the risk:reward isn't so great.

When they're close enough to get hit by a default neutral-b, shielding, rolling, and jumping are all common neutral game maneuvers that will lead to at least Luma getting knocked away and possibly worse- a direct hit onto Rosalina.

And as for recovering back to neutral? My Brawl experience tells me that Rosalina's floatiness is a big deal. Additionally, consider that when you're knocked away, you won't have Luma's extra aerial hitboxes. This tears open a pretty blatant diagonal-down hitbox deficit. So getting hit is a much bigger deal than with some other more flexible, less volatile characters.

How about the rewards? Well, you can knock them off-stage a decent amount of the time with her default neutral-b. The better characters in sm4sh seem to have a multitude of recovery options available to them, though, even without custom specials. For this reason, I think straight up kill power is way more important than poking opponents offstage. Also consider that you'll have more kill potential with Luma warp->upsmash/fsmash than with the traveling hitbox on the default.

The hidden component of this risk:reward ratio is weighing the option against everything else. Is using the default neutral-b for it's hitbox worth it outside of this vacuum? I certainly don't think so. RosaLuma's zone control with her regular moves and shooting star bit is so strong... I don't think it's smart to gamble with Luma's health unless you've got complete stage control. I'm in the camp of RosaLuma players that think Rosalina is considerably weaker without Luma- not a top/high tier zoning/ground control threat at all without her companion.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Luma Warp is very situational at best. The standard Luma Shot is actually capable of scoring KOs, so you are giving up a powerful move by switching to Luma Warp.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Luma Warp is very situational at best. The standard Luma Shot is actually capable of scoring KOs, so you are giving up a powerful move by switching to Luma Warp.

That's true but I feel that once people in general realize that Luma Shot is a kill move it'll be tricky to actually kill with it. It doesn't help that Rosalina is committed to Luma Shot once she starts charging, and anyone with a reflector can just wait for you to release it.

I believe Luma Warp can combo into smashes over 100%, so it's not like it's completely pointless for killing. Plus uair finishers and gimps in general are all still options.

Disclaimer that this is mostly theorycraft on my part.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

It's honestly very hard to actually score a KO with the Luma Shot against any competent players. Most people know what's about to come when Rosalina starts charging that thing.

Luma Warp does something that Luma Shot can't, which is pressure other projectile users. Stuff like ZSS's Paralyzer or Greninja's Shuriken will stop a Luma Shot dead. Luma Warp on the other hand will get past those and open them up to Luma's attacks.

Luma Warp by itself may not kill like the Luma Shot can in a potentially wide space, but if you take time to learn the proper spacing it does lead to kill combos that can be very hard to react to:

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That's true but I feel that once people in general realize that Luma Shot is a kill move it'll be tricky to actually kill with it. It doesn't help that Rosalina is committed to Luma Shot once she starts charging, and anyone with a reflector can just wait for you to release it.

I believe Luma Warp can combo into smashes over 100%, so it's not like it's completely pointless for killing. Plus uair finishers and gimps in general are all still options.

Disclaimer that this is mostly theorycraft on my part.

You could still use the Luma Shot as an edge-guarding attack, but I guess the opponent could still avoid it if he/she simply stays above the Luma's attack range.

 

[popsofctown]

Dude, you dropped an infinite in a combo video.

Shame shame shame shame.

 

[Iron Kraken]

For custom moves, I think Rosalina's best combination is....

Neutral: Luma Warp (custom 2)
Side: Shooting Star Bit (custom 3)
Up: Launch Star (default)
Down: Gravitational Pull (default)

I don't think there's really any debate about Shooting Star Bit being Rosalina's best side-special. It turns the so-so default move into a fantastic projectile, forcing your opponent to approach, and racking up easy damage in many spots.

And, more to the point in this thread, I'm a big advocate of Luma Warp over Power Shot. The Power, in my opinion, is hard to make good use of against strong opponents. You don't need it as a projectile when you already have the Shooting Star Bit.

I think Luma Warp is fantastic for catching your opponent off guard. The key is not to abuse the move. Have them expecting the Shooting Star Bit. Then, when you have the spacing right, throw in a Luma Warp, and go for a quick smash attack.

I have been killing skilled opponents this way over and over again. Like seriously, with the Power Shot, getting KOs on Luma smash attacks (when Luma was separated from Rosalina) was quite rare for me. But since I've switched to Luma Warp I've been getting them all the time.

Maybe it's just that opponents aren't used to Luma Warp, at least to some extent, but I think it's more than just that. It's a really good mixup attack, that is surprisingly easy to KO with. And as has been mentioned, I find it invaluable against projectile spammers, most of who can easily block the Luma Power Shot. But Luma Warp will bypass all their shenanigans and meet them head on. It's just great. With Shooting Star Bit and Luma Warp, Rosalina & Luma truly control space like no one else in this game.

I really think that Rosalina players who haven't been using Luma Warp should give the move a chance.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I have been finding that trying to use the Luma Shot while airborne is not as effective as when it's used on the ground, as you're falling while trying to charge up the Luma Shot. Also, certain third jumps have higher priority than the Luma Shot, as the attack did fail to stop Donkey Kong's Spinning Kong most of the time.

I may have to look at Luma Warp a bit further if it means trying to pull off more efficient edge-guarding tactics.

 

[ChikoLad]

Me personally, I think all of Rosalina's customs are useful and it's really just match-up/preference based. For example, right now, Shooting Star Bit isn't doing a lot for me, but I love her default Star Bits.

And while Luma Warp is best against most projectile users, I prefer Luma Shot when up against non-projectile users, especially if they have no reflector, and especially if they are heavyweights, since it's a KO move and is super easy to hit the bigger characters with even when it's fully charged.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

All that I know is that certain third jumps have higher priority than the Luma Shot, so trying to counter them with the Luma is almost impossible without it getting screwed up.

 

[InfinityZERO]

I treat the default Luma Shot like Greninja's Shadow Sneak. If you need to punish/'close the distance' really fast and a dash or Fsmash won't work, Luma Shot will.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I treat the default Luma Shot like Greninja's Shadow Sneak. If you need to punish/'close the distance' really fast and a dash or Fsmash won't work, Luma Shot will.

At least the Luma Shot is less risky to use, as Rosalina isn't the one who's attacking directly. Greninja risks getting shield-grabbed when using Shadow Sneak.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

At least the Luma Shot is less risky to use, as Rosalina isn't the one who's attacking directly. Greninja risks getting shield-grabbed when using Shadow Sneak.

It can be reflected though if you're not careful. Died to that on For Glory last night.

I'd be curious to see what range it starts being reflectable on reaction.

 

[ChikoLad]

It can be reflected though if you're not careful. Died to that on For Glory last night.

I'd be curious to see what range it starts being reflectable on reaction.

The good thing about this though, is that it doesn't reset Luma's travel distance, so if you are smart, you can use this to postion Luma in a more tricky way, while making your opponent think they have you on the ropes because they reflected your Shot. When in actuality, you are using that reflector to your advantage.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It can be reflected though if you're not careful. Died to that on For Glory last night.

I'd be curious to see what range it starts being reflectable on reaction.

You just need to be careful that you don't charge up Luma Shot too much against the fighters with reflecting moves. Against such fighters, you should avoid charging up Luma Shot altogether, as you won't get punished as heavily if the attack's power is at its weakest.