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Custom Move Discussion

Veggi

Smash Champion
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Jun 4, 2008
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I'm gonna wreck it! (Fort Myers)
Villager's custom moves are pretty crazy, so I feel it's important to discuss them and when they should be used. Below are all of Villager's custom moves and some information about them.




(A fully charged Mega Man fsmash never bothered me anyway!)

Pocket: Multiplies projectile damage by 1.91. We all know how it works!

Garden: Does 10% on hit, plus more that the flower does. The amount of damage the opponent receives depends on how many inputs they do. However, I'm not sure if it's only for the control stick or if buttons are included. The invincibility lets it be used as a counter! If it has a damage and knockback multiplier, it doesn't do much over the original amount.

Wide Pocket: Has the most invincibility and grabs items from a longer range, however the multiplier is only x1.28.



(You said you want to put those roman candles on my what now?)

Lloid Rocket: When not being ridden it does 7% damage until the end of its flight where it does 5%. While being ridden it does 17% until the end of its flight where it does 12%.

Pushy Lloid: Does multiple hits for a total of 7% damage if ridden, but 6% if not ridden. The multiple hits will combo into the explosion (6%) at the end for a total of 12 or 13%. It carries opponents with it as it travels, but doesn't go as far and travels slower. It is larger than the original and can take more hits, however.

Liftoff Lloid: 8% until the end where it does 5% while unridden. For ridden, 19%, then 12% near the end. This version of Lloid goes a bit forward and then curves straight up.


(It's Game Over for you, Stitches!)

Timber: The tree sprouting up does 18% at the center, but only 13% near the edges. Can KO opponents fairly easily. The axe does 14% with a little bit less knockback than the tree sprouting. When the tree falls it does 28% to those within the foliage and through the trunk. The outer part of the foliage only does 15%. When the timber flies out of the falling tree it does 8% to opponents.

Moody Sapling: Causes opponents to trip and does 2% when they step on it. Moves with super armor will go through the sapling and not cause the opponent to trip. The axe does 6% and lower knockback than the default axe. Growth does 15% sweet-spotted, 12% not. The falling tree does 12% so it's better off using the growth to kill. The counter effect for the tree does 5% and light knockback. Unfortunately, if a move kills the tree, that move will not be countered. Characters like Bowser can kill the tree in one hit with some attacks.

Tall Timber: 20% as tree grows, 27% falling, and axe does 16% but is slower. Planting the tree is also slower. The watering can comes out at the same speed, I think, and does way more knockback.




(Hop off, present, it's my turn.)

Balloon Trip: You all know how this one works.

Balloon High-Jump: Shoots Villager upwards really far and does 9% to those in the way at the start of it. Doesn't have control over it like the regular version. Goes super high though.

Explosive Balloon Trip: This one is surprisingly complex. After using this move, pressing the attack button causes a balloon to be released that does some damage. After both balloons pop, Villager shoots upwards in a helpless state. This move isn't as good of a recovery as the default, but shooting Villager up after the balloons pop is very helpful for recovering distance.

So what custom moves do you think are the best? Are there some that are good in certain matchups or are there any that should be used for every match? Which ones do you normally like to use?

Credit for the move frame data and percentages: Indigo Jeans

http://smashboards.com/threads/comprehensive-villager-data-edge-and-floor-attacks.368614/

Credit for much of the information on how the custom moves work: Venks Dunson

http://berathen.com/2014/09/villager-custom-moves.php
 
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Thinkaman

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Today's topic: Is there a single matchup where Villager doesn't take Wobbuffet Tree?
 
Joined
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Tree's falling sourspot actually does 15%, though the growing sourspot does do 13%

Pushy Lloid's weak hits add up to 6% when unridden, 7% when ridden, though it will nearly always do 12%/13% because the weak hits keep the victim on the ride until the explosion (I want to get off Mayor Tortimer's wild ride)

Balloon High Jump's damage is actually closer to 9%, and the decayed hitbox deals 6%

Extreme Balloon Trip's explosions deal the same percentages as High Jump in their respective sweet/sourspots

Flower damage from Garden is dependent on flower duration which is dependent on victim inputs I'm pretty sure

I wish smashboards had something like skypes star smilie because I don't want to come off as rude or condescending or whatever, I just like spreading accurate information :4kirby:

Today's topic: Is there a single matchup where Villager doesn't take Wobbuffet Tree?
Very very few, because of how ridiculously good grass-type wobbuffet is. The only ones I can think of atm are Sheik to help with absorbing needles and Palutena for Autoreticle (in these cases standard is probably better for sheik, because it has respectable HP and is the quicker one to set up, and super is the best option for Palutena, because although it takes longer to set up, you'll probably find lots of opportunities to do so in this MU)

Also Thinkaman please tell me you'll be hanging around the Villager boards
 

Veggi

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,590
Location
I'm gonna wreck it! (Fort Myers)
Today's topic: Is there a single matchup where Villager doesn't take Wobbuffet Tree?
I actually get more use out of the tripping sapling for the most part. It also sucks when the tree dies from being hit by the opponent.

I wish smashboards had something like skypes star smilie because I don't want to come off as rude or condescending or whatever, I just like spreading accurate information :4kirby:
No, I totally understand. This thread just took me longer to make than I thought it would and I didn't want to be late for work so I didn't end up double checking anything. I'll edit the OP now.

About the flower though, I know that's how Lip's Stick works in previous games. But from what I remember, I feel like it only has a few percentages that it ends up being. I'll try messing around with it.
 
Joined
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Messages
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I actually get more use out of the tripping sapling for the most part. It also sucks when the tree dies from being hit by the opponent.
I think what he meant was the custom move itself. And really it depends on what sort of character you're facing. For Little Mac, Sonic, And Bowser, the sapling is the optimal stage imo, because Mac and Bowser can just fsmash the tree away without worrying about the counter because of super armour. There's also the fact that sapling forces them into the air if they want to approach, which puts you into a decidedly advantageous position. Its good for sonic because hes gotta go fast

Meanwhile the tree is better for characters like DDD, Sheik, and Greninja. They all have great aerial mobility so they don't mind the sapling much. But the tree can knock back Gordos when sprouting and even while in its inert state. It also forces bouncing fish to end prematurely and doesn't let Greninja get as much mileage out of Bair as itd like to. All while being able to repel aerial strikes by just getting jabbed. On that topic, let me just mention it here: The tree counters all attacks. That means it counters your opponents' and yours, and even counters when you chop at it. This means chopping is for the most part really safe, and also that the most efficient and overall best way to get your tree to counter is to hit it with a jab, since it can take 5 non-staled hits, all of which come out around F3, making for a really quick counter.
 
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Joined
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Do you usually plant the super sapling while sheik is like charging needles or something? I find it hard to get an opportunity to do some gardening cause I'm constantly getting pressured by uncharged needles and fair if they just jump over my Lloid.
 

DtJ SmithZzz

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Do you usually plant the super sapling while sheik is like charging needles or something? I find it hard to get an opportunity to do some gardening cause I'm constantly getting pressured by uncharged needles and fair if they just jump over my Lloid.
I've run into a lot of sheiks that don't rush you down & just charge needles. I usually just do it while a lloid takes out a set of charged needles & or if they are off stage
 

Rakurai

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
759
I noticed that the explosion from the Liftoff Lloid custom is big enough that you can do an instant ledge rocket with it by letting go of the ledge, then immediately using side B, which will connect with someone who's standing on the stage.

The explosion from the standard version is too small to land in this manner, and requires you to let go, double jump, then use the rocket, which makes it harder to punish with it..

I doubt having what's practically an instant KO against people who mess up at edgeguarding is good enough to warrant using it over the other customs to how limited its use as a projectile is, though.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that on top of being able to ledge rocket immediately with the custom, the explosion also reaches significantly further onto the stage, enough that you can blow up many characters who'd normally be able to safely space a ground attack as an edgeguarding method.
 
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Mr.CreamCakes

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
42
I like the moody tree and flower pocket

The flower pocket could rack up damage and can be a punish tool. 10 damage plus the flower is pretty good and if u hit the pocket about 3 times. The flower will stay longer

Moody trees sprout could give stage control. The tree its self it just great. It could be good for edgeguarding or a defense tool. When someone tries to recover horizontally and hit the tree, the tree could knock them off and it could be some thing to cover him since it does damage back after its hit
 
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