Crouching Powershielding Technique Discussion

[Phoenix~Lament]

I'm kind of late to the party, what is this exactly? I heard it has something to do with crouching.

 

[stelzig]

From what I hear that is exactly what it is, and it isn't exactly new, though I suppose it is more commonly used by characters that actually have a low crouch.

If the lasers go above you when you crouch, you can powershield them as long as they are above you, even if the front of the hitbox has passed you. That's it.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

very interesting

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UFtwcZU2LxY#t=63s

Found it actually, also thanks stelzig.

 

[Superspright]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you're wrong. Marth's crouching shield is the SAME as his standing shield. This is why this works. When he crouches the back of the laser could pass over him and he can shield and reverse the laser. Combined with the fact that marth's wavedash is fast and the reflector shield has no lag you can effectively neuter falco's laser game entirely. It's not even remotely hard if the falco isn't shooting the lowest lasers possible.

Samus has this glitch as well, but it's not anywhere near as good. Since her crouching shield is balls because of it, and her standing shield isn't too hot anyway.

 

[stelzig]

That's what I said. What part of my post gave you the impression that I thought the shield was any different?

 

[Superspright]

The part where you said commonly with characters with a low crouch. That has literally nothing to do with it. G&W's crouch is absurdly low, and his crouching powershield is absurdly baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad [still better than his standing shield though lol]. Go look at the frame data sometime. I've looked at every single frame of every single character--and only Marth and Samus have notably good crouching powershields, and they aren't really strictly that good for anything but beating aerials. Given that the shield starts above their head, and their hurtboxes are still beneath the shield. Their shields are glitched in that their crouching shields are exactly the same as their standing shields. No difference what so ever. Given that they are both tall characters this gives them a viable option to crouching powershield aerials/projectiles.

The obvious weakness is that they start out so high anyone can probably bait it or land aerials very close to their legs I'd imagine and probably shield poke. With Marth though I'd imagine you probably have 6+ more frames to powershield falco's lasers because you can just let it pass over you and click shield. Viola--powershield. Getting the movement out of those powershields is the trickier part. Powershielding like crazy in general should be a part of Marth's gameplay. It can definitely stop many many aerial approaches. Even spacies may have issues against it.

But whatever. Maybe you didn't mean to write it that way, or I am still misreading you. But I just didn't want anyone to think there is a correlation between the crouch of a character and their powershielding ability. All characters have two shields: crouching and standing. Only two characters have glitched crouching shields: Samus and Marth. Whose is better? Marth's. Period.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

My question is, why are we calling this Ice's powershielding technique? I've seen Taj do this for years.

 

[stelzig]

Tested with GaW against level9 falco, and it does at the very least work with him as well.

After doing some simple training mode testing, I concur. Shields do seem to start a little lower when started in a crouch (appearently so low that you cannot powershield with the top?). Still not going to admit that the amount you can crouch doesn't matter though, this only means that some characters may not be able to powershield too high lasers.

Why do you think powershielding aerial approaches with marth is so useful. As far as I can tell, all you can get out of it is a jab, a dsmash or a utilt (ftilt ties the shieldgrab too I guess). Moves that can even get you punished on lower percents. Or are you going to rock my world and tell me that powershielding attacks have any other effect letting your own attacks cancel the shielddropping animation? (and getting pushed back a little further iirc) These things may be like slightly useful against spaced stuff on shield and stuff, but it isn't nearly as rewarding as it is with other characters.


Edit: Actually think dolphin slash might even make utilt and dsmash out of powershield even more useless. Or does the JC add frames to UpB out of shield? I forgot.
Cut out a big chunk of my post as big parts of it was meaningless after a couple of edits.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I don't think it's that the shield starts low. I think it's more the fact that you are holding down when you shield so it tilts the shield down. If you let go of down and shielded at the same moment it would probably be a normal shield. You'd have to test that though, it's just a theory I have.

You have to have at least 1 frame of jump before you can execute the move, so it'll add a minimum of 1 frame.

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

My question is, why are we calling this Ice's powershielding technique? I've seen Taj do this for years.

I first saw Ice do it at Apex 2012, hadn't heard of it before. That's really the only reason.

 

[stelzig]

I don't think it's that the shield starts low. I think it's more the fact that you are holding down when you shield so it tilts the shield down. If you let go of down and shielded at the same moment it would probably be a normal shield. You'd have to test that though, it's just a theory I have.

You have to have at least 1 frame of jump before you can execute the move, so it'll add a minimum of 1 frame.

I already tested that. Tilting the shield was indeed one of my theories, but the guy does seem to be right about the actual shield having a different starting point. It's possible to see just in 1/4 speed in training mode.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I first saw Ice do it at Apex 2012, hadn't heard of it before. That's really the only reason.

Well as long as you saw it somewhere right? It's a good technique. WDing underneath lasers is also awesome, but very hard to time correctly.

I already tested that. Tilting the shield was indeed one of my theories, but the guy does seem to be right about the actual shield having a different starting point. It's possible to see just in 1/4 speed in training mode.

Hmm. I'll have to hop into training and take a look. At normal speeds I couldn't discern a difference in shield staring location when releasing down and shielding at the same time.

 

[Mahie]

yeah it's an old, but pretty underground technique.

It's useful against turnips most, because they always come from above, making it easy as **** : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCF8QLoJU0w

Oh and it works with other characters too, as long as they have a low crouch : http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=ULrd89z3mo3fI&feature=player_detailpage&v=rd89z3mo3fI#t=208s

 

[Bones0]

Edit: Actually think dolphin slash might even make utilt and dsmash out of powershield even more useless. Or does the JC add frames to UpB out of shield? I forgot.
Cut out a big chunk of my post as big parts of it was meaningless after a couple of edits.

I agree, powershielding approaches with Marth is nearly useless. You only need 1 frame of jump-crouch to JC. Most people don't JC grab frame perfect, but most people don't attack out of powershields frame perfect either, so the point is mostly moot.

 

[ArcNatural]

I agree, powershielding approaches with Marth is nearly useless. You only need 1 frame of jump-crouch to JC. Most people don't JC grab frame perfect, but most people don't attack out of powershields frame perfect either, so the point is mostly moot.

This is just wrong. Powershielding approaches is really good with Marth, Zoso does it all the time (as well as the crouching ps, it's just easier to time because your hurtboxes smaller so you have a larger window to ps).

I feel like different regions do different silly technical things. Up here in New England it's VERY common to do powershield stuff to attacks. I almost can always react with an attack when I Powershield, and Zoso does absolutely ridiculous things with his powershield game. So I guess I just have region bias for this being a "moot point".

 

[t-iceman]

It's not region specific, powershield approaches are incredibly good against falco specifically because it is very difficult to react to a close range powershield and you can fair or wavedash in to get a better position

 

[stelzig]

^We are not talking about powershielding lasers.
In case you mean powershielding moves... You can't Fair or wavedash faster by powershielding.

 

[t-iceman]

^We are not talking about powershielding lasers.
In case you mean powershielding moves... You can't Fair or wavedash faster by powershielding.

oh my bad, ignore that last post then

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, powershielding lasers is great, but how is powershielding approaches as Marth good? Even if you can powershield into attacks consistently, what attack are you going to use? Good players will be using later aerials, spacing, and tomahawks to all defeat powershield attempts so powershielding attacks ends up being a high risk-low reward tactic that is easily replaced with better spacing, WD back fsmash, and well-timed shield grabs or up-Bs/counters OoS.

 

[knightpraetor]

this is really broken...i already had like 50-70% powershielding if i go for it when just standing normally or running...

but the crouch one is 100% powershielding on non-low lasers.

btw, is it easier to powershield if you're dashing? if so i will dash into lasers when i have the choice


edit: i was only talking about lasers.

why would powershielding approaches be good? i thought that it doesn't reduce the stun on any moves...so even if i powershield falco's dair, i'm still no more likely to get the grab then i would be normally, right?

 

[Bones0]

this is really broken...i already had like 50-70% powershielding if i go for it when just standing normally or running...

but the crouch one is 100% powershielding on non-low lasers.

btw, is it easier to powershield if you're dashing? if so i will dash into lasers when i have the choice


edit: i was only talking about lasers.

why would powershielding approaches be good? i thought that it doesn't reduce the stun on any moves...so even if i powershield falco's dair, i'm still no more likely to get the grab then i would be normally, right?

Yeah, you're right. There was a huge debate over this in Cactuar's thread earlier.

 

[t-iceman]

this is really broken...i already had like 50-70% powershielding if i go for it when just standing normally or running...

but the crouch one is 100% powershielding on non-low lasers.

btw, is it easier to powershield if you're dashing? if so i will dash into lasers when i have the choice


edit: i was only talking about lasers.

why would powershielding approaches be good? i thought that it doesn't reduce the stun on any moves...so even if i powershield falco's dair, i'm still no more likely to get the grab then i would be normally, right?

the dash powershield works the same way the crouch one does on high lasers, however it makes it harder to powershield lower lasers