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critique my marth

otg

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
4,489
Location
On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
I can't give any practical advice on Marth himself because I suck *** with him, but against Gimpy *** Fox's like Neal you HAVE to mixup your recovery as much as possible. If he tries to light shield edgehog you, try recovering a lil earlier so you land on stage or something instead of getting edgehogged. Also, watch out for your recovery as he is keeping those invincibility frames, because he will get those gimpy *** shines in there.
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
ur frendz st00pid u kant sh3l

Anyway.

I can't say this enough. Don't use the shorthop double fair unless you're sure you can connect with the first one and keep them off the ground. Otherwise you're asking to get crouch cancel grabbed or shieldgrabbed or smashed or whatever.

You're breaking the chaingrab too early. If he's not going for a platform, keep doing it. It's basically free damage.

Counter the Illusion with a jab, not the fsmash. It's easier to time and can lead into other stuff that is just as effective as the fsmash.

Haha, the usmash out of shield to hit Fox on the platform was a pretty cool idea, but really, you shoulda just gone with like a shorthop uair or a fulljump double fair or something.

At 0:27, you shoulda moved forward more to cut off any attempts to go for the edge. Good thinking though with cutting off other options. Too bad it didn't pay off.

Did you get the full DI on the uthrow? You should, especially since he grab attacked you a few times. I dunno, didn't look like you went as far as you shoulda. Oh, and just because your opponent is at a high percent doesn't mean you should use the fsmash a lot. Tempting, I know, but it often leads to you getting punished 'cause it's really predictable.

Good movement, though I'd sub in a few more dashdances for the wavedashes. Wavedashes are kinda slow.

You don't always have to techchase with a wavedash. Sometimes just running will do the trick, especially since Marth has a fairly long dash, so you can turn at reasonably far distances.

Don't ledgehop stuff if he's nowhere near. You're just giving him lag to punish. Ledgestall a little and if he doesn't go to you, ledgedash at him with a grab or something like that.

Make sure you know which way to DI and stuff. For Fox's uair, DI to the side. Super important to live as long as possible, especially on a tiny stage like Yoshi's Story.

Okay, so at 2:04, he Fire Foxed over you onto the platform. Thing is, Fox doesn't really have that much landing lag, so unless you can hit him out of the air, he can generally do something before you get the tipper fsmash off. What you should do is just wait. A majority of the time, people will roll. So hit him at the end of the roll. It only works a few times, but until you can hit them before they can do anything, it's a good substitute.

Good call on waiting out the techroll before the fsmash. Shame you missed though.

Don't be so direct with your approaches and punishments, especially on Fox. He's really not doing anything super laggy, so he often has control back before you can punish. Dash in and out to fake him out and when he thinks you're going to punish, he'll probably spotdodge - he seems to do that a lot - and then you're free to him him.

Oh snap. The Dolphin Slashes and wavedashes out of shield are nice.

Sick Dolphin Slash at the end.

One of the things I think you're having a problem with is going for the kill. Your opponent is living a lot longer than he should. One way to solve this problem is to utilt less. If you force yourself to fair more to combo, you're going to be moving him outward instead of just up and down, where you're much more likely to get a kill.

Yeah. I don't really want to watch nine minutes of video because I'm playing a really fun game, but if you want me to look at the other matches, I will.
 

HiIH

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
1,036
Location
Atlanta, Ga
Elven said:
One of the things I think you're having a problem with is going for the kill. Your opponent is living a lot longer than he should. One way to solve this problem is to utilt less. If you force yourself to fair more to combo, you're going to be moving him outward instead of just up and down, where you're much more likely to get a kill.
This is what I noticed alot (even though I only watched the first one). Like when you were edgeguarding at around 30 seconds. Jumping up with a fair wouldn't have got him, but staying standing and watching where he was hading to either A.Utilt or B.Fsmash would have been great. especially with YS platforms. I play two pretty decent Marth mains alot, and it really makes me nervous when they watch where I go before acting.
 

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
Yea the edge guards are really bad... I get caught in between a lot it seems. Double fair approach is awful, good call. My spacing just kinda looks awful, actually. I kept trading hits on fox nairs and bairs which shouldn't happen I don't think.
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,473
Location
Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
Well it looks like you have all the advice you need, really. The biggest thing that stood out to me was your edge game. If you want I can briefly go over the two ideal spots to edge guard with Marth.

1.) This one is my personal favorite. One method is to position Marth so that when you do your down tilt the very tip of the blade should just about go over the edge. This is cool because let's say Fox or Marth or whoever manages to sweet spot the edge cause you missed the down tilt. When Marth is standing his SHFFL fair covers pretty much the entire distance between him and your opponent on the edge. This makes choices a little more complicated. The safest, but predictable thing to do is roll, in which you would simply turn around and grab them.

2. The second choice, especially when facing Fox/Falco is to well stand at the edge itself. So you can shield breaker, jab or counter.

In a nutshell, Marth is the best edge guarder. Don't be so far away from the stage when edge guarding. =P
 

Niko45

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
3,220
Location
Westchester, NY
Here's my understanding of edgeguarding fox/falco help me out if any of this is wrong.

Stand at the edge and wait anticipating the illusion through me as the 1st priority. Jab through this if it actually happens. If they fall lower the next preparation is to dtilt the ledge if they illusion to it. If they fall really low and try to fire fox up, I fsmash at high percents and counter at low percents.

Firefox from above is what gives me the most problems. Obviously if they're close enough while I'm standing at the ledge I just fair that away hopefully non tipped and prepare for a lower approach. If they are too far away/high I have real problems because they can get to top platform where I'm at best going to neutral air them again which may force them to recover again at high percents but now I'm well out of position. If they're coming down at the ledge depending on the angle I try to dtilt or jab.

Also, side question. I've noticed that in marth vs fox a lot of marths shffl neutral air a lot does anyone know if marth's stationary or retreating nair beats out fox's advancing nair?
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
As far as edgeguarding goes, don't fsmash when you can dtilt. Fsmash is laggier, DIable to a better angle and easier to tech.

If they Fire Fox from above, just jump out to them when they're charging it and hit them with a fair. Simple.

As for the priority question... aerial priority doesn't work like most people think it does. If you space it so that he doesn't hit you, you win. Otherwise, you'll trade hits.
 
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