Critique my IC's plz (more vids as of 2/11/07)

[chu12ch]

Help me improve my game...

*newer vids

ICs vs Ganon

ICs vs Falco

ICs vs Falco 2

ICs vs Falco 3

ICs vs Mario

ICs vs Mario

ICs vs CF

ICs vs CF

*older vids

ICs vs Mario

ICs vs Fox

ICs vs YLink

ICs vs Falco

ICs vs Samus (much help needed here... i hate samus...)

 

[GreenxKing]

**** that samus owned you!

 

[Delphiki]

vs Mario:

Way too much wavesmashing. Your number one way to approach was wavedash C-stick. There was also the rare WD grab, and only once did you WD Jab. Work on new ways to approach your opponent. Look at how often your opponent just shielded your wavedashes, knowing you would smash. Also, use Ice Blocks more often. And look out for fireballs. Nearly all of his fireballs hit you. You would block then drop your shield, or you would be too busy Ice Blocking and let them hit you. If you see one coming while Ice Blocking, you can either shield with Nana, then P-Ice Block or just P-full hop Ice Block and let Nana take the hit. Letting Nana take the hit would prolly allow your own Ice Block to hit while Nana takes the fireball. You also don't grab enough, I only saw around ten grabs. Your opponent usually shielded, which tells me (assuming you play him often) that this is a habit and not only indicated by this vid. Start WD grabbing, Ice Blocking, and WD jabbing. Also, desynch your approaches, both with Nana and Popo. N-Wavesmashing can get a hit out while keeping Popo safe. Try it.


edit: Where are you in CA? SoCal or NorCal?

 

[Delphiki]

vs Fox:

Again with the Wavesmashing. On your first two lives you wavesmash, Green Kid full hops and starts drillshining. You need to play very carefully against a shine-heavy Fox, and reckless wavesmashing doesn't pull it off. Ice Block and use dash attacks to approach. Do not directly attack a Fox that has opportunity to react, he will shine if you get within range, and the ICs don't have much range over the shine. However you do need to keep the pressure on, else the Fox can play defensively and laser spam. This doesn't mean taking the first attack though. Keep close spacing, but stay out of range and watch for SHFFled nairs. If you see a Nair coming, U-smash or U-tilt. Also always be prepared to U-Smash out of shield. When you get an opportunity, grab if you can otherwise dash attack. This can lead into U-tilts and grabs too. Also always jump-cancel your grabs.

 

[chu12ch]

i've been trying to break the habit of the excessive wavesmashing... im gonna start wd jabbing way more... i should try that nana-only wave smashing... i also have trouble with upsmash out of shield, gonna practice that...(and im in socal)

 

[AzN_Lep]

What?! You're in SoCal!? Start going to some more tourney's man. I was starting to feel like there were only 2 or 3 of us down here

 

[chu12ch]

i need my license... or my friend needs a car... whichever comes first...

 

[Delphiki]

Azn what ICs are there in SoCal, aside from you and Neal? Up here it's just Choknater, SideFX and myself.

I'll check out the rest of the vids today chu12ch.

 

[Mr. Derp]

hmm, im actually horrible at giving help but I do have an extreme pet peeve. learn the infinite rhythym or dont do it. it shouldnt take more than 20 minutes to learn the rhytym and you dont look like a jakc *** who tried doing it but failed.

 

[chu12ch]

i tend to mess up the rhythm a lot, i know it by heart, but i am a choke master and whenever i get the chance to do it, i choke and forget it...

and...

I've been wd-jabbing recently, and whenever i try to go into a grab it starts z shielding... is there any way to prevent that?

 

[Spontaneous Spaz]

u have a big samus problem... as does all other ice climbers

a way to beat samus is by staying synced at all times... this gives u the best chance to survive and make kills... which also means, don't desync, don't dash dance, and always stay close to samus. the farther you are from samus, the better chance you have of getting hit by one of his missiles or nova balls... which brings me to my next point...

use icicles as a way to get close... jump > icicle > rpt, and don't forget to chance your approaches, just a wavedash smash will become predictable, use some jab combos > smashes.

and if u have the chance, DON'T GRAB SAMUS, unless ur going for the kill then by all means, kill samus....
samus is not chain grab-able, i know personally, i've gotten ***** by samus millions of times. the only grab that works is wobbles and dthrow > fair > dsmash... racks alot of dmg

hope that helps, oh and if u can, make ur ***** get hit by the nova ball instead of u

 

[chu12ch]

As for the newer vids, i've been trying to throw more wd jabbing in, but its somewhat harder than expected to break the wavesmashing habit... trying to use more iceblocks, but its hard when ur put under pressure, ill get it eventually... if there are any other glaring holes in my game, please help me by pointing them out...

Quick question about saving nana... whats the rule with belay and it being done by both climbers??? or is it better to just try to use side-b...

 

[Spontaneous Spaz]

the range for belay 2 times the control circle, that means if you hold ur shield down with popo, let it break, and move with nana alone, you see the 1st control cirlce. consider that a radius, now, 2 of those radii is the range that belay will work.

i personally like dual squall because it keeps them together, but belay is always a nice way to save nana from imminent death, even if she doesn't survive and all u get is the 16 dmg on the opponent

 

[cemo]

i watched some of the newer vids.

Blizzard from grab at low percentages = very no. there are definitely better options, especially against the likes of falco or falcon.

learn to infinite straight from the grab, without the blizzard. the blizzard way may be an easier start up, but you can only usually start it up at around 30%, hjgher if they're good at mashing stuff. and learn the proper timing for it as well. if you have trouble with it, it might be worth it to learn a few grab combos and chainthrows.

when you roll, hold down b or down b and desynch from it, i didn't notice that a lot. quite often you'll catch someone in the blizzard, or you can start up an iceblock chaser.

i also see a lot of times where you run/walk as opposed to wavedash. those extra frames can be crucial, especially in an edgeguard situation.

wavesmash game is solid, but predictable. try wavedash jabbing more, i find it works well when they spotdodge a lot.

you don't always have to use side-b to recover, airdodge more to mix it up.

uh... that's all i can think of right now.

 

[Spontaneous Spaz]

watched the ganon vs match... i was thoroughly disappointed... you should have beaten him... any decent IC player could've beaten him
no offense...

vs ganon you have to chain, because he's so gosh darn big
a couple dthrow > dair> chain and some grab>smash kills would've been awesome
i noticed alot of delay and you wasted your time sitting there alot
not enough icicles. remember, ganon has no ranged attacks, so take advantage of your desync icicles/blizzard it works wonders

ya... and dthrow>blizzard is not a good choice, you should be smashing or chaining there. also, try using NAIR once in a while.
if u can, shuffle up to him and nair him, or bair, they do a decent amount of knockback and can easily get them off stage once they're >80

hope some of this helps

tisk tisk...

 

[AzN_Lep]

Delphiki - it's Neal, Paul Mitchell (who's taking a 3 month break as of now), and myself. And I guess chu12ch

 

[Wilhelmsan]

If Captain Falcon falls below the edge, your first instinct should be to fire off a couple of ice blocks at him.

 

[cemo]

watched the ganon vs match... i was thoroughly disappointed... you should have beaten him... any decent IC player could've beaten him
no offense...

vs ganon you have to chain, because he's so gosh darn big
a couple dthrow > dair> chain and some grab>smash kills would've been awesome
i noticed alot of delay and you wasted your time sitting there alot
not enough icicles. remember, ganon has no ranged attacks, so take advantage of your desync icicles/blizzard it works wonders

ya... and dthrow>blizzard is not a good choice, you should be smashing or chaining there. also, try using NAIR once in a while.
if u can, shuffle up to him and nair him, or bair, they do a decent amount of knockback and can easily get them off stage once they're >80

hope some of this helps

tisk tisk...

I find Ganon a rather tough matchup. Although the last time I played a good Ganon I was terrible, so my view might be a bit misconstrued.

It's hard to get a grab on a ganon with good spacing. go in for the grab? jabbed. you don't want that, so be careful about wavedash grabbing. Also, dthrow > dair chain can be DI'd out of. I believe it's towards? I suppose he could do a reverse dair chain throw, though.

 

[lmnz]

i thought i was an IC in socal too.. =[ is it because i suck too much? =P (you not mentioning me made me break my no-post streak =_=) well since this IS my 1st post.. might as well post what the thread asked for lol.

as for videos, i only watched the ganon one. i have a friend who plays ganon with a similar style of your friend.. i think. the way i play vs him is all about timing against his f-airs, since they are so ridiculously ranged. when the time is right(when you can stuff his aerial, you'll be able to tell. try to set your self up with WDs) just give him a u-air/b-air/dashattack. you have to really watch ganon for that gay wizard's foot.. i don't know how many times my nana ate that and before i can even unshield my friend goes stomps her >.> and the only thing i learned is that you HAVE to ALWAYS full jump out of those, it's too risky to sh since the foot can still hit you. that or when you're at a good distance away from him, just build the reaction to shield right away or WD backwards, if he goes through your shield i WD, u-tilt since it's a lot easier to combo off of since grab is a lil unreliable but that's just me. that and uh.. i saw a lot is randomly timed jab, d-smashes you don't want to just stick those out there if the opponent can see it coming. <- maybe this is too much to say after watching 1 match >.>

this is how i play my friend: http://youtube.com/watch?v=1crn6F3BcYM <- that was recorded literally 1 day before i started using u-tilt(mater neal showed me the goods of u-tilt at the feb/3rd biweekly =P)

ps. i'm *justin* in the video compendium. the IC that gets destroyed by hugs >.> but that was 9 months ago and i play totally smarter(john :D)

 

[wuthefwasthat]

i'm an IC player in la jolla, san diego.
i don't have a car, but i can drive.
i've never even made those UCSD tourneys 10 minutes away
so... my competition sucks - i mostly play against pretty crappy people from school who think my falco is amazing cause i do shine combos.

anyone who wants to play me PM me or IM me on AIM (wuthefwasthat).

AzN Lep ive seen your ICs. theyre awesome. hey maybe you could drop by after one of those UCSD things.... lol

EDIT: anyways, chu12ch, you really need to mix it up a little more. although i only watched half of that ganon vid... in which im assuming u werent playing too well

EDIT: use some desynch approaches.

 

[cemo]

Scrubs like flashy things. They're like moths to light.

 

[chu12ch]

yeah, i was really off on the day that we recorded those newer videos... regarding the infinite attempts, many of them weren't even attempts at wobbling because i dont like to try it every time... so... i should wavedash rather than walk just a little bit, desync out of roll pretty much every time, use more iceblocks, use more wd jabs, and use air dodge to recover every once in a while... ill work on that...

oh yeah, and i have a problem with getting hit by dairs... i just like running into every stomp, sword plant, or drill kick i can...

 

[Spontaneous Spaz]

best thing i can prescribe for that is a good healthy dose of vitamin s (spacing)

if u can predict it, use uptilt, it works amazingly and believe it or not has lots of priority. it beats link's dair, it beats ganon's dair.. etc.. remember TIMING

otherwise, just wd out of the way, then run in with a wavesmash ftw ya?

 

[chu12ch]

I really REALLY wanna use uptilt, its just hard for me to remember...

btw spaz, that samus advice seems to help me... the full jumped iceblocks cancel out the missiles...