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Critic my ICs
- Thread starter AnDaLe
- Start date
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
roll less.
there are usually better options out of shield; ics roll is useful for setting up desynched approaches and blizzards and all that jazz but you're not using it for anything like that, you're just idly spamming it or retreating with it whenever you toss up shield. look for other ways out of shield. ic's shield game is very good because of their unique in-shield characteristics (risk in grabbing them, light shield + low traction makes them very hard to keep pressure on in the traditional sense, etc.) but you need to take advantage of their better options out of shield.
i also do not think that the sidestep desynch is particularly good in close quarters because of the frame investment, but it occasionally provides grabs so to each their own. i do think you used it too much and there are (imo) safer desynchs to produce nana doing something that popo isn't doing.
you really should crouch cancel more; crouch cancelling into grabs or d-smashes is very good with ice climbers.
you are often very idle. which is not necessarily a bad thing, but your opponent kept punishing you for it.
i think every ic needs more aerials and f-tilt.
there are usually better options out of shield; ics roll is useful for setting up desynched approaches and blizzards and all that jazz but you're not using it for anything like that, you're just idly spamming it or retreating with it whenever you toss up shield. look for other ways out of shield. ic's shield game is very good because of their unique in-shield characteristics (risk in grabbing them, light shield + low traction makes them very hard to keep pressure on in the traditional sense, etc.) but you need to take advantage of their better options out of shield.
i also do not think that the sidestep desynch is particularly good in close quarters because of the frame investment, but it occasionally provides grabs so to each their own. i do think you used it too much and there are (imo) safer desynchs to produce nana doing something that popo isn't doing.
you really should crouch cancel more; crouch cancelling into grabs or d-smashes is very good with ice climbers.
you are often very idle. which is not necessarily a bad thing, but your opponent kept punishing you for it.
i think every ic needs more aerials and f-tilt.
What are some better options out of shield and other safer desyncs?
How do u light shield?
I feel like a newb.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Better options out of shield other than roll? Jumping and wavelanding on a platform is a good one (not relevant on FD), jumping and wavelanding on the stage is good, wavedashing is additionally good, jumping into aerials is good, and sometimes even side-stepping and rolling are useful. In close range, even simple shield grabbing is sometimes the best move. The trick is to not do any one of them so much that the opponent can punish you for doing it.
I know very little about desynching, but I'm sure there are safer alternatives to frequent sidestep desynchs in close combat. You don't need desynchs all the time either
They're mostly just tricks. Being solid with your aerial spacing and ground game spacing will be far more useful than being able to make Nana tap dance in the long run
Wavedashing is usually pretty safe. But again, it is bad to build heavy dependencies on any single way out of shield (or any situation, really, unless it is perfectly completely perfect -- most strategies usually aren't this flawless).
Light shield is just holding L or R lightly so you produce a bigger shield. This is also doable with Z, but if you do it with Z you cannot shield-grab.
You can do tricks with this, like producing a light shield with Nana, while Popo has a heavy shield (just hold down on R or L just enough so you don't produce a "click" with the trigger) and occasionally screw up peoples' L-cancel timings or even use Nana's shield to absorb projectiles while Popo's does not, thus allowing Popo to run in and do Popo things until Nana is ready to recover from her shieldstun and help him.
Feeling like a newbie is normal. It wears off after a while. Welcome to competitive smash
I know very little about desynching, but I'm sure there are safer alternatives to frequent sidestep desynchs in close combat. You don't need desynchs all the time either
They're mostly just tricks. Being solid with your aerial spacing and ground game spacing will be far more useful than being able to make Nana tap dance in the long run Wavedashing is usually pretty safe. But again, it is bad to build heavy dependencies on any single way out of shield (or any situation, really, unless it is perfectly completely perfect -- most strategies usually aren't this flawless).
Light shield is just holding L or R lightly so you produce a bigger shield. This is also doable with Z, but if you do it with Z you cannot shield-grab.
You can do tricks with this, like producing a light shield with Nana, while Popo has a heavy shield (just hold down on R or L just enough so you don't produce a "click" with the trigger) and occasionally screw up peoples' L-cancel timings or even use Nana's shield to absorb projectiles while Popo's does not, thus allowing Popo to run in and do Popo things until Nana is ready to recover from her shieldstun and help him.
Feeling like a newbie is normal. It wears off after a while. Welcome to competitive smash
Binx
Smash Master
KK summed up most of what I was gonna say, with Ice Climbers you can be aggressive with your shield because Nana can be grabbed instead of you, and characters with slower throw animations can be hit out of grabbing either climber by the other climber.
You need to use your dashes more and stay closer to the ground, you jump too often, and when you jump you jump too high, and you waste double jumps for no positional advantage, vs a Link who can't sweetspot you edge guard fine, but vs Link's who actually recover properly you will have to mix up what you do on the ledge. I don't play a lot of links but check the matchup thread and it should say what you need to know.
As far as chain grabs simple dairs work great, remember to smash or something when you run out of room. Don't desynch at close range, at close range just Focus on staying out of their range and punishing or pressuring with your shield. Don't jump unless its completely safe from being hit. Move around more and spend more time shielding and creating openings. When those openings come take advantage, if he jumps too high, uair him from underneath, make sure you time it right, and use the correct option. If you think he will dair to beat your uair then get under and instead of jumping move out of the way and grab when he lands.
Also on a note, you wavedash a little bit slow, thats why they looks sloppy like that, so work on your wavedashes, wavedashes out of shield, and wavedashes off the ledge onto the stage.
You need to use your dashes more and stay closer to the ground, you jump too often, and when you jump you jump too high, and you waste double jumps for no positional advantage, vs a Link who can't sweetspot you edge guard fine, but vs Link's who actually recover properly you will have to mix up what you do on the ledge. I don't play a lot of links but check the matchup thread and it should say what you need to know.
As far as chain grabs simple dairs work great, remember to smash or something when you run out of room. Don't desynch at close range, at close range just Focus on staying out of their range and punishing or pressuring with your shield. Don't jump unless its completely safe from being hit. Move around more and spend more time shielding and creating openings. When those openings come take advantage, if he jumps too high, uair him from underneath, make sure you time it right, and use the correct option. If you think he will dair to beat your uair then get under and instead of jumping move out of the way and grab when he lands.
Also on a note, you wavedash a little bit slow, thats why they looks sloppy like that, so work on your wavedashes, wavedashes out of shield, and wavedashes off the ledge onto the stage.
You practice.
Binx
Smash Master
Too slow, basically do it closer to the ground, you leave the ground on frame 4 (4/60ths of a second) so be airdodging as soon as possible, ideally frame 5.
Once you are doing it right it should look as if you are sliding immediately, you won't actually be able to see yourself leave the ground even a little.
Once you are doing it right it should look as if you are sliding immediately, you won't actually be able to see yourself leave the ground even a little.
Binx
Smash Master
The fastest most reliable way to jab grab is to grab tap down and then grab, you tab down asap but then you need to wait a fraction of a second to grab.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I just do jab --> dash grab / jc grab
Binx
Smash Master
LOL there was a typo, one of the times I was supposed to say jab I said grab haha.
The fastest most reliable way to jab grab is tograb jab tap down and then grab, you tab down asap but then you need to wait a fraction of a second to grab.
The fastest most reliable way to jab grab is to
work on WDing, your wavedashes are triangular, which means youre leaving the ground, which you shouldnt be doing =P
your offensive timing and spacing is off by enough to be punished on just about every approach, which the link you were playing successfully did.
on your dthrow -> dair chain grabs, you need to make sure you short hop the dair as low as possible, if nana goes up above popo, the opponent can DI away and make it really hard to regrab.
your offensive timing and spacing is off by enough to be punished on just about every approach, which the link you were playing successfully did.
on your dthrow -> dair chain grabs, you need to make sure you short hop the dair as low as possible, if nana goes up above popo, the opponent can DI away and make it really hard to regrab.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
schoin
Smash Cadet
Erm Binx touched on it briefly but you need to learn how to short hop. If you can short hop it adds a completely new level to the ICs especially if you end up SHFFLing. Also I noticed that at one point link was able to break out of your dair chaingrab because you didn't short hop the dair and so link was able to DI after the throw and not be hit from the dair.
And a piece of jus random fun advice, use more ice blocks. Blizzard is all well and good if you can get it off in close quarters but the ice block will allow for harass and if you send in Popo after a desynch ice block you may even be able to get a free grab.
And a piece of jus random fun advice, use more ice blocks. Blizzard is all well and good if you can get it off in close quarters but the ice block will allow for harass and if you send in Popo after a desynch ice block you may even be able to get a free grab.
WooICYU
Smash Journeyman
I dont know if it's been mentioned before but, I would think a variation of approaches would help your game a lot more. For instance, Short hop Fairs are an decent way to approach, as well as not being predictable with your teching.