Create a Fighter! - The future of Miis and Customization?

[AEMehr]

Objectively sizes would never be legal.
It would require outside involvement via the Mii Maker, and you can't really be too bothered to go through the process of ensuring a Mii that is the correct size that isn't 50/50 (guest sized) exists on the setup. It's far too much work than it is worth.

However Special Moves are a whole different ball game, and even then it's really just learning what the move can do and how to counter play versus it. Mii Brawler's Up Special 2 and 3 are both kill moves, and have the exact same set-ups (for the most part) but the stage and DI counter-play is different for both.
Additionally, a Mii Brawler with Down Special 2 has an incredible more amount of maneuverability and can recover high to center stage pretty consistently.

Mii Gunner's projectile game changes pretty drastically depending their special moves. A Gunner with Grenade may be very special happy and toss one out any chance they get, while the Charge Blast user will likely save it to get 23% off of one exchange.
Down Special changes a lot, you have to consider that they could have a reflector, magnet, or shield breaking tool (that also can cover landings / edge guard).

Swordfighter has access to a Cape, Counter, or Wizard's Foot in Down Special; similar to Gunner you need to be wary of what option you could throw at him.
A Swordfighter with Hero's Spin has an out of shield option that can kill, while a Swordfighter with Skyward Slash Dance may opt to dair gimp more since they can likely recover even if they go pretty deep.
- - - - -
I can see the reasoning, but most players use Mii Fighters as a one-trick pony based on their Special toolkit. The mentality the player has is literally plastered on their Moveset. There will be more match-ups or situations you have to learn about, yeah, but as Mii Fighters are very unpopular anyways the only fighter you need to consider reading on really is Brawler, as he is objectively the strongest one (at least in Wii U). Even then, Brawler's optimal sets focus on 2X32/2X22 meaning you only need to be worried about what Up and Side Special they have since they would logistically be the least consistent factor. People say it would be more work than it actually would be because they're pretty lazy about it and probably wouldn't want to see Miis more prevalent in Smash based on character status.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I'm fine with sticking to 50-50 size. Hell, I hope the game has a toggle that forces 50-50 size. I am absolutely okay with that.

I just want open move selection. Let me bring my Mii Fighter with me via an Amiibo or something and we're good.

 

[Caravan of Noobs]

I hope you can choose mii heights and weights in game. Preferably limited to just Small, Medium, and Large.

 

[Gallowglass]

I really like the Mii height and weight options that they have in Smash 4. I just wish it showed more in the character model when you make it though. The height different between the smallest and tallest mii is like not even head height. I think if they exaggerated the features more it would at least give indication as to competitors as to what they were fighting as well as giving more look features for people who want to make unique characters.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

So custom moves are confirmed for the Miis, and that's really interesting.
https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/blog/index.html?category=cat02_fighter_51-53

Make sense as we already saw 5 special moves on the Brawler, but it's seems like only the Miis have customs. I like the idea of Miis being the only one with customs, it give them more uniqueness that way IMO.

 

[Caravan of Noobs]

This is good news. I kind assumed that would be the case but it's good to see the Miis keep their unique special moves.
The amount of specials is the same being 3 for each direction but I wonder which ones are going to be kept and which are getting cut.
As seen with the brawler's new counter grab move we'll be getting some new moves to replace old ones.

I hope Grenade Launch for the Gunner is kept. That was my favorite one.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

For the Brawler, I suppose that Counter replace Foot Flurry, considering Counters often are Down-B and that Head-On Assault and Feint Jump are still available.

I hope that it means that similar moves are changed to give more diversity. Foot Flurry was somewhat similar to Onslaught after all. I especially hope that Gunner's recoveries are remade. On the hand, as a grenade launch lover, I do hope that it's still there along the bomb drop.

 

[Caravan of Noobs]

I forgot what the recovery moves the gunner had but I just looked them up to remind myself of them.
They were all kind of mediocre. Cannon Uppercut is cool but it's the worst in terms of distance covered.
And then there are Lunar Launcher and Arm Rocket. Essentially the same move but you decide either you want a hitbox or more recovery angles.

They could possibly combine Lunar Launcher and Arm Rocket into one move. I don't think giving Arm Rocket Lunar Launcher's hitbox would be overpowered. Call it Lunar Rocket and I think it could work just fine and it would give the gunner extra room to add a new unique recover.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Yeah, the problem so far is that they are all "shoot downward to propel yourself". I know that it's the point of a recovery, but I'm sure that there's other things to exploit, like a Jetpack for example, functionning like ROB.

Combining Lunar Launcher and Arm Rocket is a good idea.

I also wonder if they will rework the fact that there is both Echo Reflector and Absorbing Vortex, two move very similar in function.

 

[DNeon]

Or they could reveal Mii class number 4, Mii Mage and pick up the slack of some of the missing specials and archetypes of smash character, especially with Palutena no longer filling that role.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Sad to see QR codes not a thing on the switch anymore, but I took inspiration from a mainstay from miicharacters.com and tweaked the colors to be more authentic

 

[DarthEnderX]

I've heard that now each of the Fighters is going to have 3 "sets" of special moves.

I really enjoyed my Brawler in 4 where I took all of the rapid-fire specials. I'm hoping that's one of the sets, but I'm betting they're going to spread moves like that around to each set.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I've heard that now each of the Fighters is going to have 3 "sets" of special moves.

I really enjoyed my Brawler in 4 where I took all of the rapid-fire specials. I'm hoping that's one of the sets, but I'm betting they're going to spread moves like that around to each set.

The English translation is a bit vague, they probably meant that each type of move is one set, so three different up-B, side-B, down-B, and neutral-B to choose from.

If you Google Translate the Japanese verison, you get this: "You can choose from 3 types, each of which can be customized to your liking from among three types."

So it's probably like in Smash 4, though I wonder if size differences will still be a thing?

 

[Gallowglass]

I'm also a bit concern about the "3 Sets of Special Moves" that was mention on the website. I really hope its just poor translation.

Its still a bummer that we won't have any new moves to choose from. It also disconfirms any new Mii types. Well at least until DLC anyways.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I'm fairly certain that it was just ambiguous phrasing for the English translation.

Here's what I get for the French version using Google Translate:
"You have the choice between three types of Mii fighters, and each has three variants for each of its special attacks!"

Chinese: "It can be selected from 3 types, and each skill can be customized from 3 candidate categories."

Some other languages are ambiguous, while others point towards full customization. Full customization of customs seems most likely.

 

[DNeon]

I definitely think it's up to interpretation.

Still holding out for a new mii to pick up the slack from Palutena's and to a slightly lesser extent Mega Man's missing customs, plus there's still not a mii to use items, command grabs, traps or controlled projectiles (stealth burst hardly counts at all), which are all significant types of special present in multiple characters (let alone the missing recovery methods).

 

[Frihetsanka]

Let's assume that customs work like Smash 4, but only Miis have customs. What should the Mii ruleset be like?

Personally, I'm leaning towards either Guest XXXX or Golden Set. I don't think Guest 1111 is the way to go, though I understand why pros might prefer that (fewer MUs that they have to learn).

 

[DNeon]

Let's assume that customs work like Smash 4, but only Miis have customs. What should the Mii ruleset be like?

Personally, I'm leaning towards either Guest XXXX or Golden Set. I don't think Guest 1111 is the way to go, though I understand why pros might prefer that (fewer MUs that they have to learn).

If they have a standard weight/speed then they should absolutely just have every combo premade and available. 'Learning every matchup' is a cop out when it comes to just specials. Learning your kill percents and the (at least) 24 moves of the other 64 fighters makes an extra 12 per mii class comparatively nothing.

If weight/speed isn't standard they'll probably just be banned again.

 

[Oddball]

Let's assume that customs work like Smash 4, but only Miis have customs. What should the Mii ruleset be like?

Personally, I'm leaning towards either Guest XXXX or Golden Set. I don't think Guest 1111 is the way to go, though I understand why pros might prefer that (fewer MUs that they have to learn).

The rules should be that you can use them.

People are trying to prove they're the best and win the competitions, well if you are the best you should be able to beat anything going in blind and knowing nothing about it. You should be able to adapt to an unknown and figure them out on the fly.

 

[AEMehr]

If they have a standard weight/speed then they should absolutely just have every combo premade and available. 'Learning every matchup' is a cop out when it comes to just specials. Learning your kill percents and the (at least) 24 moves of the other 64 fighters makes an extra 12 per mii class comparatively nothing.

If weight/speed isn't standard they'll probably just be banned again.

Miis were never legal because they never tried to standardize them in a way Mii players liked.
It was simply easier to not deal with it than to try to make it work.

 

[Mic_128]

Miis were never legal because they never tried to standardize them in a way Mii players liked.

Depending on your region, some had them completely legal. (Although I think in general they all had to be 'default' height/weight, which is why I hope that element is flat-out removed.)

 

[LaughingLefou]

The problem with the whole "fully customizable Mii" is that it'd be a real pain to balance it out. It sounds good only in paper. Let's say that it does happen and then someone puts out the "OP" setup and then you'll see most people running that particular setup.

It's almost as bad as the popular "MM Link with all forms" move set.

Wouldn't MM Link with all forms basically just be Pokemon Trainer?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I feel like balancing the Mii's movesets aren't the actually problem they had in 4.

They problem they had in 4, is they could only be used in modes that allowed equipment, and thus, stats. And THAT'S the part that's impossible to balance. Because different people have different random gear drops and stat differences DRASTICALLY alter how two characters with the same moveset would play.

So far, Ultimate doesn't have gear or stat variations that we've seen. If that stuff is gone, Mii's because infinitely easier to balance for all movesets.

 

[GunBlaze]

They problem they had in 4, is they could only be used in modes that allowed equipment, and thus, stats.

Um, not turning customs on made any equipment irrelevant for everyone, even Miis. Only things Miis kept were their specials and their build (size, width and weight).

 

[Pegasus Knight]

They problem they had in 4, is they could only be used in modes that allowed equipment, and thus, stats. And THAT'S the part that's impossible to balance. Because different people have different random gear drops and stat differences DRASTICALLY alter how two characters with the same moveset would play.

Demonstrably untrue. If you turned Customs to Off and selected a Mii, they would fight without any equipment benefits. Easily tested with loading a Mii up with invulnerability-at-match-start granting equipment, damage boosting equipment, and an item granting equipment then turning Customs Off.

You will spawn a Mii that has their chosen movelist and size, but isn't invulnerable, doesn't do extra damage, and doesn't start with an item.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Um, not turning customs on made any equipment irrelevant for everyone, even Miis. Only things Miis kept were their specials and their build (size, width and weight).

Wait, I thought you couldn't even use Miis if you had Customs turned off.

 

[Soulsaint]

If the movesets are now standardized, I hope atleast that some cosmetic options are returning. Personally, for me, the prospect of.fighting with a bland looking mii isn't all that exciting. Well maybe with one, but we got 9 movesets in total. Creating Mii's that.looked like
a character and played in a way that you imagined them was the fun part for me.

 

[AEMehr]

Depending on your region, some had them completely legal. (Although I think in general they all had to be 'default' height/weight, which is why I hope that element is flat-out removed.)

My region dislikes Miis so they've been forced to be guest size 1111.

They never were legal competitively because they were pretty lazily lumped in with customs very early even though each Mii Fighter has a very obvious flaw that can be abused :\
A lot of regions have begun to allow them because the game is at the end of it's lifespan, yeah. But I was moreso talking about the past 4 years where most people weren't allowed to play as them.

Wait, I thought you couldn't even use Miis if you had Customs turned off.

No, you can use any Mii in any mode offline with any special at any size. Equipment is considered a custom attribute, so they will not take effect unless the Custom button is on. Interestingly, you only can't use customs for them in event mode.

 

[GunBlaze]

Wait, I thought you couldn't even use Miis if you had Customs turned off.

Only mode that outright disables them is With Anyone. They can play in everything else.

 

[Mic_128]

A lot of regions have begun to allow them because the game is at the end of it's lifespan, yeah. But I was moreso talking about the past 4 years where most people weren't allowed to play as them.

They've been legal in Australia for all of the game, afaik.

 

[AEMehr]

They've been legal in Australia for all of the game, afaik.

Well I didn't say all of them lol

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

I Know they're not gonna make customizable Movesets for the Mii Fighters; But Will they still be customizable and not just choosing Different Voices for them;
Will they still be able to change the Face, like choosing what Mii Face & Body they'll have(depending on whether you make the Mii fat & Tall, or Short & Skinny), or What Clothes they'll be able to Wear[Such as any of the DLC from the Previous game(Excluding those that are now playable Fighters, I.E. Inklings), or brand New Costumes]

I Ask this since, in the Entire Time they've been shown in Super Smash Bros Ultimate; They've only had the default faces for each of them and the default Costumes

 

[Pegasus Knight]

You 'know' that? What's your evidence? The translations of the Mii Fighter posts have been shown to have significant differences in different regions. We do not 'know' they have taken out movelist selection. It is possible, but hardly proven nor is it specifically likely.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

You 'know' that? What's your evidence? The translations of the Mii Fighter posts have been shown to have significant differences in different regions. We do not 'know' they have taken out movelist selection. It is possible, but hardly proven nor is it specifically likely.

If the Custom movesets for other characters are gone, so are the ones for the Mii Fighters

 

[Pegasus Knight]

If the Custom movesets for other characters are gone, so are the ones for the Mii Fighters

:Cornette Face:

What? That's your evidence?

You can remove custom move selection for pre-built characters while still leaving the option to select individual moves for a character the player makes. You can totally do that. It's not even that hard from a programming perspective, they can literally recycle code from Smash 4 for this and change the conditional statements that allow it to happen. I could code it for them given a few weekends to get myself familiar with the game's code, it's a very simple menu.

I'm sorry, but your reasoning simply does not add up. Miis will almost certainly have a 'build your special attacks list' feature this time around just like they did in Smash 4. There is no reason for Sakurai to take away features that are a vital part of their appeal to most players. People would make a Mii and then go "Well, crap. 1111 does not fit this character's concept. 2222 does not either. Nor does 3333. This isn't fun!" I cannot see Sakurai doing that to them for no good reason, not when move selection is a core aspect of Mii Fighters.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

:Cornette Face:

What? That's your evidence?

You can remove custom move selection for pre-built characters while still leaving the option to select individual moves for a character the player makes. You can totally do that. It's not even that hard from a programming perspective, they can literally recycle code from Smash 4 for this and change the conditional statements that allow it to happen. I could code it for them given a few weekends to get myself familiar with the game's code, it's a very simple menu.

I'm sorry, but your reasoning simply does not add up. Miis will almost certainly have a 'build your special attacks list' feature this time around just like they did in Smash 4. There is no reason for Sakurai to take away features that are a vital part of their appeal to most players. People would make a Mii and then go "Well, crap. 1111 does not fit this character's concept. 2222 does not either. Nor does 3333. This isn't fun!" I cannot see Sakurai doing that to them for no good reason, not when move selection is a core aspect of Mii Fighters.

:Cornette Face:

What? That's your evidence?

You can remove custom move selection for pre-built characters while still leaving the option to select individual moves for a character the player makes. You can totally do that. It's not even that hard from a programming perspective, they can literally recycle code from Smash 4 for this and change the conditional statements that allow it to happen. I could code it for them given a few weekends to get myself familiar with the game's code, it's a very simple menu.

I'm sorry, but your reasoning simply does not add up. Miis will almost certainly have a 'build your special attacks list' feature this time around just like they did in Smash 4. There is no reason for Sakurai to take away features that are a vital part of their appeal to most players. People would make a Mii and then go "Well, crap. 1111 does not fit this character's concept. 2222 does not either. Nor does 3333. This isn't fun!" I cannot see Sakurai doing that to them for no good reason, not when move selection is a core aspect of Mii Fighters.

If Sakurai says that Custom moves are gone, they're gone!! He said so in the interview; Even with your Argument It's Your Words against the Creator of the Game!!

 

[AEMehr]

I Know they're not gonna make customizable Movesets for the Mii Fighters

This isn't actually true at all, the Smash Brothers Blog post suggests they still have customizable movesets in some form.
https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/blog/index.html?category=cat02_fighter_51-53

Though the way they are customizable is still up to interpretation, several translations suggest it works differently.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

If Sakurai says that Custom moves are gone, they're gone!! He said so in the interview; Even with your Argument It's Your Words against the Creator of the Game!!

:Sigh:

I'm not even going to dignify this with a further in-depth response at this point. Instead, I am going to go get a drink.

 

[AEMehr]

:Sigh:

I'm not even going to dignify this with a further in-depth response at this point. Instead, I am going to go get a drink.

Lose the attitude. If you have nothing to add, don't post.

If Sakurai says that Custom moves are gone, they're gone!! He said so in the interview; Even with your Argument It's Your Words against the Creator of the Game!!

I'm interested in seeing this interview, could you please share it when you get a chance? It might have missed my radar.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Lose the attitude. If you have nothing to add, don't post.

:shrug:

Guy comes at me with absolute nonsense, plays the 'word of god' card to try to back it up, and I'm just supposed to take it? Not seeing the logic here. The conversation in any case appears to have been concluded, so that should settle things.