CPU Learning Abilities in SSBM?

[StealthyGunnar]

Now, there have probably been tons and tons of threads/posts about this subject, but I just though I'd bring it back. CAN CPU's LEARN? As in learn, I mean, can they "learn" to counter your moves and/or do advanced techniques?

I know many people think that this is impossible for Melee, but I disagree. Whenever I'm Fox, I would use the illusion to get back on the stage after being thrown off. Now, when I Fox ditto a lvl 9 Fox, whenever I try to illusion back, he shines me back off the platform before I touch the ground.

Is it also possible for lvl 9 CPU's do advanced techniques? I've seen lvl 9 CPU's ledge tech multiple times. Sometimes, even my Fox and Falco shine cancel. Probably one of the funniest things that has happened to me though, was when It was a team match. My cousin and I was fighting a lvl 9 Fox, and a lvl 9 Falco. My friend had died so it was just me, and the two CPU's left:

1. Fox does illusion.........I get hit into air
2. As I'm falling to hit the ground, Falco grabs and pummels me.
3. Falco does forward through....... I get sent flying.
4. Fox does a Nair while I'm flying through the air, I get hit, and I die.


So, feel free to post some of YOUR thoughts about the lvl 9 CPU's, and, if you want, stories when they have done ridiculous things. POST AWAY!

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

cpus have amazing team work it's retarted I've seen a level 1 samus wall tech a down-smash when recovering. But still why do foxes always shine after a throw I've seen one shine after a f-throw wtf? but powersheilding is beyond retarted that's why I stopped playing level 9s power sheild needle is broken.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

cpus have amazing team work it's retarted I've seen a level 1 samus wall tech a down-smash when recovering. But still why do foxes always shine after a throw I've seen one shine after a f-throw wtf? but powersheilding is beyond retarted that's why I stopped playing level 9s power sheild needle is broken.

They can be very ********. And, yes, powershielding does suck. I just had a lvl 9 falco shine>Bair me 5 mins. ago. :/

 

[Abstract]

They can be very ********. And, yes, powershielding does suck. I just had a lvl 9 falco shine>Bair me 5 mins. ago. :/

WTF, there going to be the new generation of smashers

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

You should've teched it. It would have been crazy if it was fox shine bair. no not till I see a normal cpu run will I think they can truely learn they don't run. oh I've seen a ness try to recover with up-B before but it was only in 1p mode on the metal match in 1p mode they can run.

just pick kirby use all jumps down-B repeat you should win unless it's a moving stage.

 

[Likeness101]

I am pretty sure CPU's learn. I have had my marth cpu wavedash to fsmash and dsmash. I have had my peach Float Cancel Fairs a couple of times. My fox has short hopped out of shine to a nair multiple times and my falco has done the same (except with dair). To top it off they ledge tech tippered fsmash from marth if they are near the ledge and falco's dair if they touch the ledge.

The coolest thing I think my cpu's have done is the cpu fox chaingrabbed me (okay it was only 4 grabs) on FD with uthrow and once when I was peach he uthrowed uaired me.

I only really play CPU's all day so I assume they learn.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I've been chain thrown by cpu ice climbers wtf? grab billzard pummel, d-throw regrab repaet but I broken out. But i've also seen them d-throw me and change F-smash and wait for me to fall into it but I was jigglypuff so yeah wtf you can't mindgame me.

Little kids will tell you they are to good at mindgames my little brother will run at them and they jump out of the way and my little brother fell to his death. mindgames to good?

 

[Likeness101]

I have no idea what you just said. But I am pretty sure that all Ice Climbers cpu's will dthrow and then charge a fsmash. Nothing new.

 

[LLDL]

They don't learn. They do however react to your input. So if YOU are learning, they are in a sense doing different things to react to your input, and may be doing things that you as an individual have never seen before, but it's only because you're doing things differently.

 

[`DNS`]

the other day a fox used his bthrow to get me off the stage
and when i tried to illusion above him he jumped out and shined me..

 

[LAX_]

CPUs always try and do those things like foxes shine to stop your illusion back on stage and doing jab cancels in all that.

they can't learn dude.

 

[King Siegfried]

They don't learn. They do however react to your input. So if YOU are learning, they are in a sense doing different things to react to your input, and may be doing things that you as an individual have never seen before, but it's only because you're doing things differently.

^ .... yep this is the answer ... years ago when i was super nooby, id just role behind them and grab .. or smash when i knew they'd walk into it .. when we were kids we thought we were all that bc we just took advantage of their patterns as AI ... but now when i try to play them like i don't know what they're gonna do it's a lot tougher ... and they do react the same way based on what i do.

falco will still kill himself by lasering into claptrap if he's on the far right of jungle japes

 

[X1-12]

CPU's don't 'Learn' abilities, techniques or combos, The CPU's just follow an algorithm based on the simple principle of

IF certain thing happens THEN
DO selected move


HOWEVER its probable that once a human player has done a certain move, e.g Double-jump cancel, Powersheilding, ledgeteching possibly even Float canceling and Wavedashing Then the CPU's will then begin to use these techniques, the algorithm for this may look something like this, with the example of wave dashing

IF Human player has wavedashed before THEN
wavedash forward
IF Human player has not wavedashed before THEN
walk forward

Obviously this wouldn't be the exact program the CPU's are working on however the principle sticks CPU's will NEVER learn to do things new however they may begin to do different techniques depending on the actions you have done

 

[King Siegfried]

CPU's don't 'Learn' abilities, techniques or combos, The CPU's just follow an algorithm based on the simple principle of

IF certain thing happens THEN
DO selected move


HOWEVER its probable that once a human player has done a certain move, e.g Double-jump cancel, Powersheilding, ledgeteching possibly even Float canceling and Wavedashing Then the CPU's will then begin to use these techniques, the algorithm for this may look something like this, with the example of wave dashing

IF Human player has wavedashed before THEN
wavedash forward
IF Human player has not wavedashed before THEN
walk forward

Obviously this wouldn't be the exact program the CPU's are working on however the principle sticks CPU's will NEVER learn to do things new however they may begin to do different techniques depending on the actions you have done

Interesting ... hey, I'm curious ... did the programmers know about the advanced techs when they made the game?
I mean I'm sure they didn't foresee they would get this kind of use, but how much of it do you guys think they were aware of???
I also heard that in the games coding wavedashing has it's own name or something.

 

[X1-12]

Interesting ... hey, I'm curious ... did the programmers know about the advanced techs when they made the game?
I mean I'm sure they didn't foresee they would get this kind of use, but how much of it do you guys think they were aware of???
I also heard that in the games coding wavedashing has it's own name or something.

I'm fairly sure most of the advanced techniques were purposely made for the game however possibly not for the uses they are used in advanced play today, for example wavedashing, for example some mechnaic had to be made so that there is a certain effect when a character's airdodge moves them into the floor however whether it was a technique designed for movement is arguable,

Teching also was left in the game purposely as it is in many other fighting games (marvel vs capcom etc) as was SHFFL'ing.

Some other techniques such as platform cancelling as well as many things like samus's Super wavedash, it is argued, were accidents that were missed in debugging and were merely left in accidentally but no-one can really say

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Hmm. Even if they don't learn, it's still fun to see what they can do. It gets really hilarious when two CPU's do a team combo. (see my first post)

 

[ru5514n]

I think CPUs don't learn, they imitate. I've seen a lvl Ganon do shffled fairs, and I seen my Fox jump-cancel shines, and triple full-hop laser, but they do these techinques randomly, and usually in positions that don't call for it. So they are programmed to basically do what you do.

 

[Stratford]

Those ****ers do the lightshield edgehog against Marth's up b except they do it with powershield...

 

[Glitchy]

Had a lvl 9 Falco ledge tech 4 downsmashes in a row. I lol'd so hard that i couldn't finish the match xD

 

[StealthyGunnar]

I think CPUs don't learn, they imitate. I've seen a lvl Ganon do shffled fairs, and I seen my Fox jump-cancel shines, and triple full-hop laser, but they do these techinques randomly, and usually in positions that don't call for it. So they are programmed to basically do what you do.

Ya, they do do those tech's at unconventional times, but who's mpt to say that they just learned it and now have to learn to incorporate it in their predictable gameplay?

 

[LAX_]

how can you say that a computer learned something.
just think about it for a bit.


if you don't believe it then use someone else's game and play and watch how ganon still up-bs the living crap outta people and how fox powershields and does jab cancels all day.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

how can you say that a computer learned something.
just think about it for a bit.


if you don't believe it then use someone else's game and play and watch how ganon still up-bs the living crap outta people and how fox powershields and does jab cancels all day.

Probably just imitation. But the way they act, like doing AT's, makes it SEEM they learn.

 

[psyt]

I think my level 9 DK has become self aware o.o

 

[Rubyiris]

cpus have amazing team work it's retarted I've seen a level 1 samus wall tech a down-smash when recovering. But still why do foxes always shine after a throw I've seen one shine after a f-throw wtf? but powersheilding is beyond retarted that's why I stopped playing level 9s power sheild needle is broken.

Why are all of your posts so terribly formatted? It's such a chore trying to read them.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Why are all of your posts so terribly formatted? It's such a chore trying to read them.

It was the lvl 9 CPU's

 

[KHON™]

ive witnessed a few lvl 9 cpu team combos to good for words :o

i can learn a thing or to from the lvl 9s

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hey can you team with a cpu? It would be amazing lol another wombo combo. But yeah what would be the best cpu to team? I would say zedla(so many powersheilds) but she is easily waveshined and the cpu is worse as sheik and they tranform at random times.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Hey can you team with a cpu? It would be amazing lol another wombo combo. But yeah what would be the best cpu to team? I would say zedla(so many powersheilds) but she is easily waveshined and the cpu is worse as sheik and they tranform at random times.

Idk. I mean, Fox is ok, but he jab spams way too much. I'd probably say Fox or Falco, though. Maybe Marth. I've tried comboing with a CPU, but we only got 3 hits in. They don't always hit the opponent back to you. :l

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Sorry for the double post, but something funny/amazing just happened. I was link and was facing a lvl 9 Mewtwo. He was double jumping back to the ledge, but I edgeguarded by doing Link's UpB on the ground. Somehow the CPU DI's into the side of the stage, techs, and wall jumps. WTF?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

yeah wtf. I doesn't want to pick fox because he is easy to gimp but most don't even recovery right anyways

 

[StealthyGunnar]

yeah wtf. I doesn't want to pick fox because he is easy to gimp but most don't even recovery right anyways

Idk. For some reason, I always team with lvl 9 Falco. His recovery sucks, but he doesn't jab spam as much as Fox, I think.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

We need to make a cpu tier list also I saw a solo popo try to recover with side-B the other day.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

We need to make a cpu tier list also I saw a solo popo try to recover with side-B the other day.

Wow. I've never seen that. CPU's can be amazing sometimes. But I like that tier list idea. Got anyone you know you could pass it on to? I mean, I don't know any important/pro peoples. :/

Oh, I also saw Falco tech>walljump my forward smash.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

carp in truth no one cares but how will it be based? only lv 9s and vs real people? Because cpu vs cpu gannondorf is broken check out a thread in the game thing it's called melee betting thread or something.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

carp in truth no one cares but how will it be based? only lv 9s and vs real people? Because cpu vs cpu gannondorf is broken check out a thread in the game thing it's called melee betting thread or something.

I don't even know how we could go about seeing who's the best. CPU vs. CPU? Idk, since both spam *insert move here* it would be hard to see who's actually the best. No skillz at all.

I hate the lvl 9 Mewtwo vs. my Link matchup. I also hate lvl 9 IC's. Spammin iceblock and they sometimes chaingrab me.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

roy is the worse or one of the worse. I'm saying that now the sd a lot and don't really do anything also sheiks sd with up-B if your stand near the edge a lot of times.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

roy is the worse or one of the worse. I'm saying that now the sd a lot and don't really do anything also sheiks sd with up-B if your stand near the edge a lot of times.

I'd say Marth is one of the best. I mean, he spams a little, but the sword is hard to get around. Also, ganon, falcon, sheik, the all SD with their UpB.

 

[-ACE-]

CPU's cannot learn. They are capable of doing some semi-impressive stuff, but they do not acquire these capabilities over time. Everything they do (or "know") is already programmed and has been the same from the day melee's final release was finished.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I disargee have you ever seen the perfect falcon video?

 

[GeneralWoodman]

why don't you put in a new memory card and see if your cpus forget ****. duh :/