Covering Marth

[Slashtap]

I have some questions bubbling in my head, and I'll ask them in the order that makes the most sense in my head. I hope this all makes sense...

My first question is a poll for people who main as Marth:
Who do you second as, and why?


Before I ask my second question, here's some background info: I'm seriously looking into learning another character intimately to be the second to my main, Marth. I play worst against Sheik, Falco, and to a lesser extent, CF and Gandondorf. However, I don't intend to learn another character just to counterpick against one of these four troublesome matchups. Especially Falco. I intend to just step up my Marth game for Falco and Ganondorf.

So what I'm asking is, is there a character that is a good counterpick against two or more of Marth's difficult matchups? I'm not limiting this question to my personal weaknesses, either, because I probably didn't name all of Marth's good matchups.

And then I have a third question for IF the answer to my second question isn't a resounding "YES!": If there isn't a character who really counters Marth's counters well, is it a safe idea to just stick to my one character, Marth, or can this be seen as a punishable weakness down the road?

Knowledgeable smashers, please include stage considerations in your answers.

Thanks for any and all help.

 

[Roche_CL]

mmm, all that info...calls...Fox! xD
He doesn't have much trouble on counterpicks.
Fox can deal with no prob against Ganon.
Fox has advantage against CF.
Fox can deal fairly enough against a sheik, better than a Marth. Just think on nice triple Uairs.
Fox is even with Falco, I think that in FD has a slow disadvantage, lasers and pillaring...., I think that Marth can be a better option against a Falco, because everyone knows, Falco players love fighting against a Fast Faller, so better not give them what they want xP.

Sheik can deal also against Marths problematic characters, and also has little problems on stage counterpicks.

I played all my life with lot of characters, I used Fox, Sheik, Peach and Marth. In the last tourney I lost and people was telling me "why did you chose that character? you could have win if you used the other one", and probably they were right. So my advice is just stick to one or at the most, two characters so you are clear on your choices, and don't make mistakes.

 

[ArcNatural]

I secondary Fox. If you can't get consistent with the tech skill for Fox or you don't like having to waveshine and such, I recommend picking up Shiek. Both Fox and Shiek play against Ganon, Falco, and Shiek pretty well.

The reason why it is always good to have at least one other character to use is because your style change can really throw people off.

 

[Rune]

Sheik.
Easy to play, so I don't have to spend too much time learning a secondary character.
Beats the **** out of space animals and Ganondorf (and everything else for that matter).

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Too many shieks as it is and most of them aren't any good for the sole reason they go shiek (because of her general gayness) and aren't any good with her when they face someone they knows how to handle one.

And how are you still awake old man?

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

It depends on how you want to play.

Spacing- Requiers tactical movement to gain the greater advantage between an attack. Hard(er) to grab.

Tactician-Playstyle differentiates between location. Such things that can change these the characters winning conditions are character location, platform location, attack range, or edge scenario (when to and when not to edge gaurd/hog).

Chase-A more defensive style, but becomes offensive when punishing simple mistakes such as a missed tech.

Aggro-Primary movement is towards attacking the opponent constantly. Offensive playing typically leads to poorly spaced moves and lack of tactics. Technical skill is of the up most importance.

Control-Uses tactics to cause your opponent to relocate and change strategy in play. Tactics like projectile camping work with this playing style.

Variety-Uses several tactics to explore more methods of offense and defense beyod standard play. To play with variety, you must know your character boundries.

Pressure- Quickly attacks and leaves very little space between the opponent. Characters such as Falco who deliberetly attack an opponents shield to reduce the opponents ability to block are examples. Multiple Grabs, Tech chasing, and the character specific pillar shines are also good pressure tactics.

Punish-Reliant on using variable hits to determin stock loss on an opponent. If a mistake is made, the opponent has the opportunity to potentially lose a stock.




Marth= Spacing/Tactician/Chase

Primary playing tactics= Spaced Fairs & Nairs(F-smash as well), Grabs, Tilts, Edge Gaurd


Fox=Aggro/Control/Variety

Primary playing tactics=Vertical KO, Aerial>Shine(s),Waveshine(Character dependant) Occasional throws


Falco=Aggro/Pressure/Combo

Primary playing tactics=Pillar shine, SHL,Waveshine(Shine DI chase), Aerial>Shine(s)


Sheik=Punish/Combo/Chase/pressure

Primary playing tactics=needles, Grabs, Tech chase, Moderate Comboes, Tilts, Edge Gaurd

I play Marth and Fox.

 

[Rune]

Too many shieks as it is and most of them aren't any good for the sole reason they go shiek (because of her general gayness) and aren't any good with her when they face someone they knows how to handle one.

And how are you still awake old man?

I don't sleep. Especially since I'm trying to get into an art college and was supposed to get word from them today.. which I have, and now I'm pissing my pants over getting through the second round.

PS: I never actually use Sheik unless I'm utterly failing as Marth. My Marth does better against his 'counters' than my Sheik.

 

[Miggz]

Fox is my secondary too. Mainly cause it takes allot of work into Fox, and just like Marth, Fox can be played in so many different ways.

 

[NickRiddle]

Second Fox...Just like most Marth mains I know. All Marth's bad match-ups are easier with Fox. (To my knowledge.)

 

[knightpraetor]

second fox...deciding still between falcon and sheik for a 3rd...i would never play falcon in a match where he could get counterpicked though as falcon vs fox isn't even remotely fair...

i dunno why i want a 3rd..i guess cause i enjoy the variety...and if i meet a marth better than mine i can go falcon or sheik...i enjoy falcon vs marth more than sheik vs marth..but honestly i think sheik does a much better job..however, i'm considering whether it might be worth keeping my falcon up to par for using stage picks of FD, PS, poke floats and rainbow cruise..he does exceptionally well on those levels..in my opinion a good falcon can even take on sheik well on those stages...and i would say holds advantage on marth on those stages..while marth i would say holds advantage against falcon pretty much everywhere else

anyways i still haven't really decided on my 3rd but meh..it may be bothersome to have to learn a 3rd character and keep up the tech skill..especially if i went falcon and wanted to moonwalk edgeguard..

lately i've had to choose between readjusting my grip for fox and relearning perfect waveshines or just using two different handgrips when playing marth and fox..but i think i'm going to switch...the grip i'm switiching to is the only one i was able to pivot tilts well with.

though for the record i still have a lot of trouble due to having to switch my hand position slightly..it's not a problem on aerial to dash pivot..or flat dashes..but while doing quick dashdances back and forth close to the same position i don't get more than like 70% of pivots..but i'm hoping with time that will clear up

anyways this is totally offtopic sorry

 

[lillight3]

i would acctually say to try out both fox and sheik at first and then pcik one that best suits how you play and what you are trying to accomplish against the characters you are trying to beat. Phoenix fire gave good advice so look at that.

also, after my last tournament i descided to pick up both fox and sheik a lil bit. Fox is definately capable of pulling off some serious shine combos and sheik just owns other characters in a lot of situations. but keep in mind that other people practice against those characters more often then others since they are higher tiered than marth is. its also more close range combat with them as opposed to smacking the hell out of them with a sword

 

[Tsunami157]

Personally I like Falco as a good compliment to Marth. He takes care of other spacies, sheik, ganon, and captain falcon!!!! (He can do it all) I would say that Marth/Falco is the perfect combo. You won't have any weaknesses with this team.

 

[Miggz]

Erm...are yah saying that cause of what happened with Ken and Bombsoldier? Cause I somewhat disagree with your statement. No offense, I just do. But no worries, not trying to start anything, I respect your opnion. =)

 

[lillight3]

fox seems to be more usable as a secondary than falco though imo. For a Falco to br really good you have to master him and that wont be possible when you still have your main as marth. Fox takes a lil time to learn but his moves are qhicker and easier to pull off at least for me. plus his recovery doesnt suck

 

[Salaad]

I use Marth/Falco..it's awesome..Fox is too FFer for me..

 

[lillight3]

falco falls faster than fox...

 

[Salaad]

falco falls faster than fox...

O_o.....Fox is the Fastest FFer. xD I've never heard of someone say Falco falls faster than Fox.=/

 

[Puffin]

He's right, Falco falls fastest.