Could ZeRo potentially ruin Sm4sh's competitive scene?

[(Buddha)]

Ken was dominating when Melee was at its prime. Then came Mang0
Many players we do not know about live. Who knows? One could come out of nowhere and put up a winning fight against him. I personal like ZeRo. I think he is helping. In his own way.

 

[Reila]

a lot of people taking his words as facts.

Unfortunately it seems like a lot of people in the Smash community are indeed prone to this ^^

 

[Joshua Flynn]

Sure, crappy damage per hit. Makes trades favorable against her a lot of the time.

Poor damages (compared to what, though?) per hit isn't a weakness per se, especially if Sheik can KO at a fairly low percentage. If it's supposed to be a weakness, it's obviously not noticeable.

I mean, a real weakness. For example, JP's shield if broken insta-KOs. Mac's air game is so bad it's suicidal, Ganon's moves are slow enough to punish, Villager's balloons can be popped mid-flight, Ness's PK thunder can be intercepted (or Ness himself). Slightly lower damages isn't really a weakness, not compared to the others.

 

[Joshua Flynn]

Well, Diddy still exists, and is still doing diddy things, albiet not as diddiful as before, but still pretty diddy.

You know what I mean. The whole 'smash defaults to victory screen if you pick Diddy' jokes.

 

[Wintropy]

Shaya's comment reminds me of a similar analogy: to wit, the All Blacks in rugby. The All Blacks (the official team of New Zealand, if you're unfamiliar with the sport) have consistently dominated the game since 1903: the team has won over 70% of their official test matches, beaten every other country they've played (the only international team in the world to do so), have only ever been beaten by five other countries (Australia, France, South Africa, British and Irish Lions and an invitational World XV team comprised of players from different countries) and held the position of the top team in the world longer than any other team in the history of the game.

In short: the team are very, very good. The most famous victory against the All Blacks was in 1978, when Munster (coincidentally my home team) beat them 12-0. In Smash terms, it'd be the equivalent of a mid-level player beating ZeRo 3-0 in grand finals at a major.

To this day, songs and stories are told about this match. It's that anomalous. But it proves that it can be done, and that a dedicated goal to aim for forces players to do their very best.

The point of my comment is that the All Blacks, far from ruining the game, actually embellish rugby: every rugby team in the world dreams of beating the All Blacks. It's a massive achievement for any country to defeat them in an international event, which spurns on every team to do their best and play harder. This competition is good for the sport. Everybody does their best to beat the All Blacks, because that's the ultimate test of efficacy in the game; at the same time, the All Blacks know everybody in the world wants to beat them, so the team constantly train to improve themselves in order to stay at their best.

ZeRo won't ruin Smash 4 by being the best. At the same time, he won't suddenly cease to be the best just because he gets beaten in a tourney. As mentioned earlier in this thread, when ZeRo is beaten consistently by other players, then he will pass on the mantle to another player. Then that player will become the opponent that every tourney-goer wants to beat, then the next player, etc.

And, most importantly, do remember that the game is very young. I'd wait a couple of years before we proclaim that ZeRo is undefeatable and stagnates the game.

 

[neohopeSTF]

ZeRo gives players something to strive for in beating him

 

[Duplighost]

People covet ZeRo? Ew, that's disgusting.

I was referring to his skill level, and how much people desire to be like him... not him literally...

 

[Mr Gentleman]

While I don't see ZeRo "Ruining" the competitive scene for competitors I am curious if his dominance is having a negative effect on spectators. I hear people all the time say how they are not hyped to watch smash 4 because they already know ZeRo will win.

what are everyone's thoughts on that?

 

[|RK|]

^ Woah.

Hey guys, look, ZeRo is really good, but this isn't SF4. This isn't Melee either....hell this game isn't even Brawl... He doesn't have some massive technical advantage over anyone.

I wasn't joking; everyone start maining shiek, diddy and ZSS, and ZeRo will stop winning every tournament. If ZeRo is going to do anything for the competitive scene, he's either going to :

a) force people to get privy to the S-tier matchups for the meta
or
b) force the "viability spectrum" cutoff higher than it is currently, to resemble something more like Brawl or Melee.


That's really what it's looking like. Customs or Miis aren't going to change this outcome either.

...What? ZeRo beat the best Sheik in the world with his Diddy. You're making it sound like people only choose characters that have bad matchups against Sheik. ESAM uses Pikachu, Nairo uses ZSS. Angel and MVD play Diddy. Mr. R plays Sheik. ZeRo beats them all. How would everyone (people that aren't as good, mind) using those characters change anything?

ZeRo isn't good because of Sheik or Diddy. He's just good.

 

[New_Dumal]

ZeRo is good, and now, he is better than anyone.
But it will be over sometime.
When Brawl came out, M2K ruled so hard until the meta reached him (okay, he really messed up one or two times,but believe me... he ruled.).

A player should never ruin a game competitive scene.
Do you guys realize so hype it is just to see anyone trying to beat him?
ESAM x ZeRo 2x2 in Winners Finals was so hype because... almost happened.
ESAM and Nairo are reaching him, because he is in a place now that is hard to evolve.
I personally don't like her Sheik too much, too be honest.
She is too solid, too consistent, but not techinical or creative as other players Sheik's.
The fact is that he have a control about the game that looks like no one have yet, so the top tier obviously work.(best options + most safe game + best control of the game = excelent results).
ZeRo is that final boss you struggle to beat.
And a badass final boss is very better(personally) than a game where a lot of people can beat/win.

 

[LightLV]

...What? ZeRo beat the best Sheik in the world with his Diddy. You're making it sound like people only choose characters that have bad matchups against Sheik. ESAM uses Pikachu, Nairo uses ZSS. Angel and MVD play Diddy. Mr. R plays Sheik. ZeRo beats them all. How would everyone (people that aren't as good, mind) using those characters change anything?

ZeRo isn't good because of Sheik or Diddy. He's just good.

You missed the whole point of that post. It really doesn't matter who any of those people use, and i didn't say anything about bad matchups, pikachu or zss. The more people who use the characters that ZeRo plays, the less effective he's going to be at using them, because the matchup experience is going to increase across the meta. Weaknesses that arise in the character are going to be magnified. Little gimmicks he gets away with are going to get noticed on reaction and wont work anymore.

And you also missed where I said that no matter how good it SEEMS like ZeRo is, this is not a heavily technical game. He has no strong TECHNICAL advantage over anyone, he's just outplaying people at Smash 4.

Of course ZeRo is going to wreck the best sheik in the world with his Diddy. ZeRo plays Sheik. Does Mr. R play Diddy?

 

[|RK|]

You missed the whole point of that post. It really doesn't matter who any of those people use, and i didn't say anything about bad matchups, pikachu or zss. The more people who use the characters that ZeRo plays, the less effective he's going to be at using them, because the matchup experience is going to increase across the meta. Weaknesses that arise in the character are going to be magnified. Little gimmicks he gets away with are going to get noticed on reaction and wont work anymore.

And you also missed where I said that no matter how good it SEEMS like ZeRo is, this is not a heavily technical game. He has no strong TECHNICAL advantage over anyone, he's just outplaying people at Smash 4.

Of course ZeRo is going to wreck the best sheik in the world with his Diddy. ZeRo plays Sheik. Does Mr. R play Diddy?

As was said at the beginning of this thread, there are very few people for whom ZeRo's dominance is a problem. For those people, they have plenty of Sheik and Diddy experience. Hell, most people do. Matchup inexperience has never been the reason people have lost to ZeRo.

You don't need to main a character to have the experience necessary to play the matchup.

 

[LightLV]

As was said at the beginning of this thread, there are very few people for whom ZeRo's dominance is a problem. For those people, they have plenty of Sheik and Diddy experience. Hell, most people do. Matchup inexperience has never been the reason people have lost to ZeRo.

Huh? So people who can beat ZeRo have plenty of Sheik and Diddy experience, but matchup inexperience isn't a problem for people who lose to him?

I think i'm misunderstanding something.

You don't need to main a character to have the experience necessary to play the matchup.

Of course you don't. Which is why i said, the more collective people play the character, the easier it will be to get the MU exp.

 

[Shaya]

There are a lot of Sheiks around to be quite honest.... there were quite a lot of Diddy's too.
Nairo has dominant records against every Sheik bar ZeRo. A match up apparently ZSS loses, but out of those who compete with sheik at top level, none of them can consistently beat Nairo.
So are you going to circle logic "they don't know the match up" ad infinitum? If that's the full depth of your argument it isn't solid.

ZeRo is the best player using the best character, and others are working towards bridging that gap with their own characters. I don't necessarily disagree with your premise either, if everyone was playing Sheik would ZeRo be still so far ahead of people? Could he really maintain himself dominantly on even-ground with others?
But that affect is happening.... at a pace that some may say is dangerous. Sheik's developing significantly faster than the rest and you want that to be amplified further? It's taking playing to win too literally with short-term gains at the expense of everything else.

 

[|RK|]

Huh? So people who can beat ZeRo have plenty of Sheik and Diddy experience, but matchup inexperience isn't a problem for people who lose to him?

I think i'm misunderstanding something.

Of course you don't. Which is why i said, the more collective people play the character, the easier it will be to get the MU exp.

To put it another way - ZeRo doesn't seem to consider himself the best Sheik. He's just the best player using the best character so he has every advantage. People have Sheik MU experience in spades, and better Sheiks (like Mr. R) have been beaten. ZeRo's dominance isn't based on inexperience with Sheik - it's just the inability to outplay ZeRo.

 

[LightLV]

There are a lot of Sheiks around to be quite honest.... there were quite a lot of Diddy's too.
Nairo has dominant records against every Sheik bar ZeRo. A match up apparently ZSS loses, but out of those who compete with sheik at top level, none of them can consistently beat Nairo.
So are you going to circle logic "they don't know the match up" ad infinitum? If that's the full depth of your argument it isn't solid.

ZeRo is the best player using the best character, and others are working towards bridging that gap with their own characters. I don't necessarily disagree with your premise either, if everyone was playing Sheik would ZeRo be still so far ahead of people? Could he really maintain himself dominantly on even-ground with others?
But that affect is happening.... at a pace that some may say is dangerous. Sheik's developing significantly faster than the rest and you want that to be amplified further? It's taking playing to win too literally with short-term gains at the expense of everything else.

...There is no other way to take "playing to win". That's kind of the point of the phrase, do what makes you win. Again, the meta is going to evolve the way it's going to. It doesn't really matter who is or isn't playing certain characters -- the moment they become a threat, people will catch on and start pushing them. It happens in every game. I don't know why people always assume that people camping the top-tiers on the roster and stagnating the game is somehow a conscious choice of the community. Metaknight didn't ruin Brawl because everyone was playing Metaknight, he ruined it because he was f---ing broken. It wouldn't happen if the characters weren't so obviously superior to the rest of the cast. There will always be tons of top-tier characters running around, that's a given, in any fighter. There are a ton of "fox players" in Melee, but very few who can make him resemble the type of fox who wins in tournament settings.

But more importantly, no amount of sheik players are going to stop the Marth, DK, Shulk, whatever communities from pressing onwards with the characters they want to play. Even if a group already knows their character is trash, they're going to stick with them because they want to. Again, it does not matter who plays who and how much, it's not going to stop people from trying to become great at the character they want to...unless they just realize it's a hopeless cause and give up. And in that event, it's nobody's fault but the developers. None of the top players in smash are going to put in any lab time with characters that are "sleeper tier" because they are playing to WIN, not push a character into a position where it's possible to win.

Finally, there is no circle logic at play here, i'm not saying, for instance, MU is the reason Nairo can't beat ZeRo, but it could definitely be a factor. I think ZeRo beat Nairo's ass at CEO, but Nairo looked like he played a significantly better matchup at EVO. If anything Nairo just lost to bad nerves and a ridiculous fluke at EVO that would have killed anyone's steam, but in a long set i'd expect Nairo to beat ZeRo's Sheik at this point. ZeRo is definitely a better tournament player in that regard. And I don't feel like the ZSS vs. Sheik is too slanted in either's favor either, they're both stupid characters.

 

[Horseketchup]

The thing is that Zero has built up such a legendary status in this game that it creates an insane buzz and tension when players even take a game off of him or come close to beating him. ESAM was literally a read away from sending him to losers at SSC, and that was the most hype there's been for any Smash 4 set ever. Now imagine when someone finally does actually beat Zero? It will be basically like a historic event in the game's history, the internet will go absolutely wild like we've never seen for Smash 4. It's a long term storyline that just keeps building, and building, until eventually we get the most amazing payoff.

ESAM literally being a hit away from beating Zero I think was an intense moment that shook up the notion that Zero would just autowin everything he entered. I think it makes ppl want to watch a Zero gf even more than they would for say Nairo and Mr. R because they want to see if this is the tourney that someone finally makes history. He's not so far ahead that it takes away from the excitement of wanting to watch him compete, and ESAM proved that he was right in reach of being taken down. I think him dominating completely would be unhealthy over time in terms of entertainment value, but clearly players are already starting to catch up to him as the meta advances so I say Zero's dominance is unquestionably great for the scene right now. He is forcing the top players to step up their game too, and that makes for a more advanced meta overall.

 

[LightLV]

I just want to reiterate that i'm not trying to take away from ZeRo's dominance in this game.

I'm just saying...he isn't unbeatable, not by a longshot. He wasn't unbeatable in Brawl, he sure is hell isn't unbeatable in Melee, and Smash 4 is the most simplistic of any smash game released.

So no, he isn't in any danger of ruining anything. He's either going to push the game forward, or has already exposed all its flaws.

 

[DunnoBro]

The year is 2ZeRoXX...

 

[|RK|]

I just want to reiterate that i'm not trying to take away from ZeRo's dominance in this game.

I'm just saying...he isn't unbeatable, not by a longshot. He wasn't unbeatable in Brawl, he sure is hell isn't unbeatable in Melee, and Smash 4 is the most simplistic of any smash game released.

So no, he isn't in any danger of ruining anything. He's either going to push the game forward, or has already exposed all its flaws.

I don't know why you're comparing the games. ZeRo is the best Smash 4 player. While there are shared skills, the games are clearly different.

Not the best argument, tbh.

 

[LightLV]

I don't know why you're comparing the games. ZeRo is the best Smash 4 player. While there are shared skills, the games are clearly different.

Not the best argument, tbh.

You are very good at not getting the point

 

[topspin1617]

I just want to reiterate that i'm not trying to take away from ZeRo's dominance in this game.

I'm just saying...he isn't unbeatable, not by a longshot. He wasn't unbeatable in Brawl, he sure is hell isn't unbeatable in Melee, and Smash 4 is the most simplistic of any smash game released.

So no, he isn't in any danger of ruining anything. He's either going to push the game forward, or has already exposed all its flaws.

I agree that ZeRo won't ruin anything, more likely he'll force other players to get better... though I take a bit of issue with the statement that "Smash 4 is the most simplistic of any Smash game released".

Just comparing to Brawl, I have a difficult time calling 4 more simplistic. Sure, a couple ATs may have been removed from Brawl to 4, but others were added. In addition, the new ledge mechanics are far more deep than the old. Not deriding ledge hogging as a legitimate strategy at all... just saying that's about as simplistic as it gets.

Also, factor in the balance of Brawl vs 4. Brawl had basically a 1 character meta. Smash 4, as I see it, has the potential to have a LOT of viable characters. Sure, characters with more obvious advantages are developing faster, but that's not really a surprise. Watching videos of people playing different characters at a high level, it seems that most characters have techniques or properties that make them unique in some way, and unlike Brawl, they can turn their uniqueness into actual strengths.

Melee kind of became as complex as it is by accident, but I suppose there's really no denying that it takes more tech skill at least than any of the other Smashes.

64... I guess you can call combos "deep" but I really don't view guaranteed 0-deaths as particularly deep gameplay.

 

[|RK|]

You are very good at not getting the point

Eh, I just think your point is framed poorly. His records in Melee and Brawl aren't relevant to what he's doing now. He's not unbeatable if only because he's human. The simplicity of Smash 4 has no bearing on that.

I know your point is still your thing about how he's not so technically far ahead, but that doesn't mean much.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

So, a lot of people have been wondering, could ZeRo potentially ruin Sm4sh's competitive scene?
Not really. In my opinion, it makes up for a more hypeful meta (ESAM vs. ZeRo in SSC. Epicness ahoy!) and there are scenes basically everywhere... one guy might be the candidate for taking ZeRo out. Concon did it once. Someone else can do it again, from anywhere. Also, this didn't happen with Melee; Ken was literally the king of Smash. Maybe even Isai on Smash 64, and M2K on Brawl. PC Chris defeated Ken. Isai retired. M2K was defeated by Ocean. And those games have well-shapen metagames, how Smash 4 can't live well because of it? I believe it may take some time, but let's not forget Ken was definetly reached by somebody in 2006, 3 years after his first tournament and on Melee's 5th year. How are thinking about that when Smash 4 has 10 months of life, 11 if we count the Japanese release? It's up to us players (everybody, not a specific group) if we want to take at least a Full Set against ZeRo, or a Tournament.

 

[Buffoon]

ZeRo makes Sm4sh interesting to me; he's the consistent top dog of tournaments, thus everyone's gunning to be the one who beats him or hype up those who come the closest to beating him.

 

[MistressRemilia]

It's just that nobody beside ZeRo actually try hard enough, some top players may not have the time, but idc, it's the fact: If someone truly tried hard & wished to beat ZeRo, ZeRo would have been defeated already.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

I think it's kind of funny that people always forget that ZeRo has been beaten; he lost a set to Mr. ConCon, and he lost at Sky's Smash 4 Invitational (although I don't count the invitational because nobody had any idea what they were doing with the game). To be fair, if he had gone Sheik against ConCon instead of Diddy he would have easily won, but the fact is that he did drop a set. And yet everyone always seems to forget about this.

Everyone always talks about when is ZeRo finally going to lose, and then when he actually does lose, nobody cares.

 

[Shaya]

People definitely cared, it was quite a hyped feature we're still hearing about (just not as much, you've fortunately met the quota for this period).
But then the goal post was shifted to knocking him out of tournament. If ESAM had beaten ZeRo at SmashCon, then ZeRo double 3-0'd ESAM in grands, we would be hyped he lost a set, but would start to think even less of taking a set off of him.

 

[LightLV]

I agree that ZeRo won't ruin anything, more likely he'll force other players to get better... though I take a bit of issue with the statement that "Smash 4 is the most simplistic of any Smash game released".

Just comparing to Brawl, I have a difficult time calling 4 more simplistic. Sure, a couple ATs may have been removed from Brawl to 4, but others were added. In addition, the new ledge mechanics are far more deep than the old. Not deriding ledge hogging as a legitimate strategy at all... just saying that's about as simplistic as it gets.

Also, factor in the balance of Brawl vs 4. Brawl had basically a 1 character meta. Smash 4, as I see it, has the potential to have a LOT of viable characters. Sure, characters with more obvious advantages are developing faster, but that's not really a surprise. Watching videos of people playing different characters at a high level, it seems that most characters have techniques or properties that make them unique in some way, and unlike Brawl, they can turn their uniqueness into actual strengths.

Melee kind of became as complex as it is by accident, but I suppose there's really no denying that it takes more tech skill at least than any of the other Smashes.

64... I guess you can call combos "deep" but I really don't view guaranteed 0-deaths as particularly deep gameplay.

Whether by accident or design, depth is what it is. Just about everything great about skill-based games today was born of complete accidents by the developers. (combos in SF4, Juggles in DMC, ATs in Smash, ect.) Sakurai just seems to be the only developer hit by a brilliant accident who refuses to acknowledge that it made his game better, and instead spends all his brainpower going in the opposite direction.

Smash 4 is undoubtedly more simplistic and watered down than Brawl was, and this is coming from someone who never cared for brawl. There was just way more to learning any given character, there was more to learn and master about the game. There was barely any hitstun, but its combos and setups are really no different from how Smash4 is now...except rolling was way less safe and you could actually edgeguard. No rage BS either. If you ban Metaknight, suddenly the game starts looking alot like Smash 4 does.

64 is the most punishing smash game, majority of characters can 0-death you and every hit counts as it can set you up for a kill. Smash 4 sits on the opposite side of the spectrum where just about everything is extremely forgiving, there's essentially 0 depth to the defense system, and just about everyone can recover a pixel up from the blast zone.

It is the easiest smash game by a longshot. There is very little a player could TECHNICALLY learn about this game that would give them an edge, and everything present here existed in Brawl, and as a result it's the most simple to learn and master.

 

[AjmLink]

Others mentioned Ken and his melee run and I feel the same can be said about ZeRo here. I don't feel like he's ruining the scene as we've witnessed through streams. I feel that we are getting close to seeing him actually being put into losers, and potential wiped if he's in losers depending on his opponent within the next couple of months.

Nairo has the potential but seems to choke while ZeRo clutches. Esam is proving that he has what it takes to take games, but ZeRo seems to pull through because I feel that he can force Esam into setups thus ruining Esam's momentum to pull the win with different approach options (sometimes he goes ham, others you can tell he's playing more passively depending on the MU and punishes hard).

That said, I believe it would need to be Nairo or Esam who can put ZeRo into losers, because I honestly don't think either of them can win the bracket reset and win GF because of ZeRo's impressive ability to adapt. If it's not Nairo or Esam, I feel like it needs to be some random using a supposive mid to low tier character that we've all been sleeping on.

 

[Rashyboy05]

It's just that nobody beside ZeRo actually try hard enough, some top players may not have the time, but idc, it's the fact: If someone truly tried hard & wished to beat ZeRo, ZeRo would have been defeated already.

And you don't think that people like ESAM or Nairo are trying hard to beat ZeRo?

 

[Sodo]

It's just that nobody beside ZeRo actually try hard enough, some top players may not have the time, but idc, it's the fact: If someone truly tried hard & wished to beat ZeRo, ZeRo would have been defeated already.

Are you kidding?

 

[MistressRemilia]

And you don't think that people like ESAM or Nairo are trying hard to beat ZeRo?

It's not hard enough, and usually not done in the right ways of training. All players including remain too sub optimal so far, it will get better over time ofc but for now that's how i feel, no offense.

 

[Wintropy]

Well, to be fair, ZeRo has dedicated himself totally to Smash. It's his main source of income, his entire career is Smash.

I don't think it's that players like Nairo and ESAM don't try hard enough (mind you, Nairo does seem to get shaky whenever he has to fight ZeRo, but that's more so nerves than discipline): they just have other commitments beyond the game. Kinda difficult to keep up with the person for whom top-level Smash is a job in addition to a hobby.

 

[LightLV]

It's just that nobody beside ZeRo actually try hard enough, some top players may not have the time, but idc, it's the fact: If someone truly tried hard & wished to beat ZeRo, ZeRo would have been defeated already.

This is probably true

 

[JingleJangleJamil]

He is isn't going to ruin the scene, because of so many reasons. There are already players who are getting close to being better than ZeRo. As long as there is a player better than everyone else there will be people trying to beat that player. One of the other biggest reasons is that there are so many players right now who don't care about beating ZeRo, because they either don't care about being the best and just want to play the game, or currently they are trying to overcome other hurdles like being unable to beat a certain player in their local scene or just trying to win tournaments. I doubt players who have never gotten out of pools in a major are worrying about beating ZeRo is smash 4 or any of the Melee gods in Melee. There will always be someone better than you at what you do, and if there isn't someone will eventually get better than you.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

I actually think it'll ending up drawing insane hype one day.

I'm a huge ZeRo fan, and I really enjoy it when he wins... But one day, some is going to beat him. The guy who never lost a single tournament. And that will be the biggest upset in Smash4 history.

 

[Powerman293]

I really don't like stagnation, so that's why I don't like ZeRo being at the top. It's not so much that he's stagnating the meta, but a sort of struggle is nonexistent. At least in Melee, there was no definitive god above the others, and that made matches between them interesting to watch. Of how they play off of each other, what decisions do they make, e.t.c. Heck, even seeing someone take on a god is exciting. People always joke that ZeRo always wins, but it's true! Watching a match, while interesting, does become boring if you know the outcome. So in that way, he could ruin the scene in some slight way. People will stop trying to push themselves since ZeRo has a clear advantage having played Brawl for years and it's his full time job. So we'll have ZeRo, and everyone else.

Also doesn't help ZeRo that he coincidentally picked the best character, bringing him even more anti-hype.

 

[David Viran]

I really don't like stagnation, so that's why I don't like ZeRo being at the top. It's not so much that he's stagnating the meta, but a sort of struggle is nonexistent. At least in Melee, there was no definitive god above the others, and that made matches between them interesting to watch. Of how they play off of each other, what decisions do they make, e.t.c. Heck, even seeing someone take on a god is exciting. People always joke that ZeRo always wins, but it's true! Watching a match, while interesting, does become boring if you know the outcome. So in that way, he could ruin the scene in some slight way. People will stop trying to push themselves since ZeRo has a clear advantage having played Brawl for years and it's his full time job. So we'll have ZeRo, and everyone else.

Also doesn't help ZeRo that he coincidentally picked the best character, bringing him even more anti-hype.

Ken dominated early meta melee for years. ZeRo hasn't been dominating nearly as long.

 

[Powerman293]

Ken dominated early meta melee for years. ZeRo hasn't been dominating nearly as long.

I've been hearing the meta of Smash 4 in its first year has been moving much faster then Melee in its first few, so on a comparable scale, ZeRo has been dominating for a long time in a Youtube/twitch internet age.