Could we please stop hosting international tournaments with both Melee & Brawl ?

[Tero.]

Basically as the title says.

First of all I'd like to mention that I don't have a problem with any of the games and I really think national tournaments should have both games in order to make the community grow together, but this is totally inapplicable for international tournaments.

• Extreme tight schedule and tournaments mostly don't finish on time (finals at 3am and stuff like that, everybody knows what I'm talking about)
• Less time for friendlies and side events (and we all love our LT side events, friendlies and Money Matches, don't we?)
• too many people want to attend but there isn't enough space (this doesn't apply to all tournaments, some are desperately searching for people, but I'm talking about big international events anyway)
• people won't travel because their game is only played 1 day and it's not worth spending the money for 1 day

There are more rasons, but those are allready enough to justify having seperate tournaments.

 

[-Jumpman-]

We'll see how OSTS: Alliance goes first.

 

[Slhoka]

I only play Melee, so my point of view is biased, but I kinda agree.
Anyway, in France, we won't have any big mixed tournaments anymore or at least, non in a near future. TSL4 showed us it was too hard to handle efficiently both games (and anyway, we don't have any good hosts with enough interest for Brawl).

 

[King Funk]

Well, most Brawl players like to play Melee, but the contrary is not always the case.

*hides because was planning to host yet another Melee-Brawl event in summer*

 

[Tero.]

I only play Melee, so my point of view is biased, but I kinda agree.
Anyway, in France, we won't have any big mixed tournaments anymore or at least, non in a near future. TSL4 showed us it was too hard to handle efficiently both games (and anyway, we don't have any good hosts with enough interest for Brawl).

Yay, can't wait for ESA4 and TSL5

We'll see how OSTS: Alliance goes first.

Well, I wont attend because it's only one day of Melee and no housing

Well, most Brawl players like to play Melee, but the contrary is not always the case.

*hides because was planning to host yet another Melee-Brawl event in summer*

Well if you're just planing to host a national event that's fine.

Edit: And OF COURSE you cannot not like Melee

 

[Marcbri]

I totally disagree with this, when I go to another country to play, I go expecting to play both games, I don't feel its worth it if I have to travel twice to play the same amount of tournaments.

At NST3 we had both events with a lot of people and we only have a bit of trouble with melee finals being played at about 22:00 because we had some problems in the melee days but we did brawl 1 day and melee the other without brawl affecting melee finishing then.

Of course if the hosts are not able to completely follow timetables and have 1 game tournament time when its time to play the other game, they should try having 1 game tournament first, but asking to remove one of the games at international events is prety dumb for people who can't afford to go to both ( and that's many people )

 

[Tero.]

Well if you play both games it's fine and I understand where you're coming from.
However if you only play one game and let's say you have to wait and watch Brawl matches and can't play Melee friendlies because the TVs are needed for the Brawl tournament (and the other way arround) that's extremely annoying.

And tbqh I think most people only play one game (and the other one just for fun).

 

[Blad01]

There are more and more people playing both games, Tero
(Mostly Brawlers playing Melee, but the contrary also exists)
And I agree with Marcbri on this : A tournament must be worth the travel.

The best answer would be "more" : More TVs, more space, more time... in order to have more friendlies, more people, more side events...

Of course, it's obviously quite unrealistic too...

 

[King Funk]

Well if you're just planing to host a national event that's fine.

Hm... Nope, european event. ^^ But we are still dealing with the venue holders. Once we get a confirmation, we'll put up a nice big-*** thread.

But don't worry Tero, we'll have a sunday with Brawl, a saturday with Melee, and a friday with as much freeplay you want as we finish the registration process.

 

[Tero.]

[...] but asking to remove one of the games at international events is prety dumb for people who can't afford to go to both ( and that's many people )

No there aren't many people.
Well most Brawl players play Melee on a casual level and enter the event if there is the option to do so. Most Melee player hate Brawl and don't enter Brawl events.

If you want to play Melee go to a Melee tournament. If you want to play Brawl go to a Brawl tournament.
National tournaments should still have both, that's fine.

If you don't want to enter an international Melee event because there is no Brawl, you're not interested in the game and should rather attend a national Brawl tournament.

By the way that is all just my opinion, but it seems like there are more than enough people having the same opinion.

There are more and more people playing both games, Tero
(Mostly Brawlers playing Melee, but the contrary also exists)
And I agree with Marcbri on this : A tournament must be worth the travel.

The best answer would be "more" : More TVs, more space, more time... in order to have more friendlies, more people, more side events...

Of course, it's obviously quite unrealistic too...

Actually there are less and less people playing both games.
Mostly Melee players quitting Brawl and Brawl players quitting Brawl for Melee or quitting smash in general, at least that is what I noticed in the german community.

Hm... Nope, european event. ^^ But we are still dealing with the venue holders. Once we get a confirmation, we'll put up a nice big-*** thread.

But don't worry Tero, we'll have a sunday with Brawl, a saturday with Melee, and a friday with as much freeplay you want as we finish the registration process.

I don't have a problem with that, I play both games in tournament. I just hate watching Brawl matches or playing Brawl friendlies and I'd rather have a melee side event like LT than both brawl main events...

 

[Smasher89]

It worked out nice at SMACK, even though there were some issues with too few consoles/tvs (don´t remember which one) So I don´t see the problem (more then it takes too much time and effort for just one host to handle, unless maybe VERY experienced), but I play both games.

Also it´s more fun and worth it with more tournaments(especially for new players I think, who looses every poolmatch) for the sometimes high costs for travelling+tournaments, like allready mentioned.

If there´s a issue with too few tvs/consoles it´s the players who were supposed to bring those that are to blame seriously


Ah and it can motivate more players to travel abroad for a tournament...

 

[Marcbri]

No there aren't many people.
Well most Brawl players play Melee on a casual level and enter the event if there is the option to do so. Most Melee player hate Brawl and don't enter Brawl events.

I've attended melee only events as well as other people that are consideded brawl players, but we just don't have the money to go to other country to play brawl and then travel again to play melee.


BTW the number of players that play both games is actually increasing here in Spain, a lot of melee players have started and are starting to play brawl ( including top players) and same happens with brawl players with melee. we don't have many brawl haters, maybe a couple, the rest of the community grew up some months after the brawl release and a lot of those haters play the game and even assist brawl only tournaments now.

 

[Phyr]

This thread deserves lolface. Really.

Let's see, Smash64 Melee and Brawl are games with the same gameplay but with diferent characters, fallspeeds, hitboxes, knockbacks, stuns, etc. But still they have the same basis. (Not the same metagame though)

So it's natural that every game should be played in every tourney. Moreover i think that Smash 64 should be played too.

The problem is not the tourneys but the time. It would be great to host 3-days tourneys, but well... not everyone can skip school or work to go to these tourneys.

 

[Tero.]

It worked out nice at SMACK, even though there were some issues with too few consoles/tvs (don´t remember which one) So I don´t see the problem (more then it takes too much time and effort for just one host to handle, unless maybe VERY experienced), but I play both games.

Also it´s more fun and worth it with more tournaments(especially for new players I think, who looses every poolmatch) for the sometimes high costs for travelling+tournaments, like allready mentioned.

At SMACK we had like 90% Melee players and like only 3 actual Brawl players.

If there´s a issue with too few tvs/consoles it´s the players who were supposed to bring those that are to blame seriously


Ah and it can motivate more players to travel abroad for a tournament...

You can blame whoever and how much you want, it doesn't make the tournament any better.

I've attended melee only events as well as other people that are consideded brawl players, but we just don't have the money to go to other country to play brawl and then travel again to play melee.


BTW the number of players that play both games is actually increasing here in Spain, a lot of melee players have started and are starting to play brawl ( including top players) and same happens with brawl players with melee. we don't have many brawl haters, maybe a couple, the rest of the community grew up some months after the brawl release and a lot of those haters play the game and even assist brawl only tournaments now.

Spain seems to be different from other countries then.
Good thing, tho. That's the way it should be.

This thread deserves lolface. Really.

Let's see, Smash64 Melee and Brawl are games with the same gameplay but with diferent characters, fallspeeds, hitboxes, knockbacks, stuns, etc. But still they have the same basis. (Not the same metagame though)

So it's natural that every game should be played in every tourney. Moreover i think that Smash 64 should be played too.

The problem is not the tourneys but the time. It would be great to host 3-days tourneys, but well... not everyone can skip school or work to go to these tourneys.

Even if all games have roughly the same gameplay, they are NOT the same, differences are huge and there will always be people who like one game more than the other and you can't force them to play something they don't like.

 

[Lawrencelot]

I agree with Tero actually. The main argument seems to be "i don't want to travel twice", but that doesn't make sense, as I'll show you now. Imagine all big tourneys are melee+brawl. You go to one international tourney and play both. Next year you go to an other international tourney and you play both. Instead of this, if the first tourney was melee only, and the second was brawl only, you had as much melee and brawl as when it was both, maybe more because you could have focused on one game and you didn't have to change your play drastically between the two games.

What I think is the biggest argument is that if you focus on one game you can take your time to do singles one day, doubles the other day, and maybe do crews or other side events. Really, we never do any crews the last time, the only ones I've seen are from rox4 or something.

Also all tv's are used optimally if you do one game, any extra tv's can be used for friendlies of the other game for those who want to, or just more friendlies of the same game.

The only real argument I see to do both games is to simply attract more people. More people is always a good thing, but usually there is enough enthousiasm already for every tourney. And I think more melee people would show up for a melee only tournament than a brawl+melee tournament, and I've often seen brawl players complaining and not coming to a brawl+melee tournament because the hosts wanted melee to be the main event, even when the melee people had to pay for the brawl tourney as well.

 

[Utto]

The main reason not to combine Melee and Brawl is obviously that it's not practical. When you organise a Melee/Brawl combo, you either have to rush and improvise, or you have to increase the scope of your tournament. In the first case the tournament suffers, the second case is a logistic nightmare. You could for example have an enormous venue with eighty tv's and host the two games side by side, but you run the risk that some players make it far in both events and stall the tournament. Besides, where are you going to find such a venue for a reasonable price (especially if people have to sleep in it), and where are you going to get eighty tv's? You could also host two full days of Melee and then two full days of Brawl after that, but some players might not be able to take that many days off and in most cases the date will not be ideal. Also, in both cases the financial risks for the hosts are considerable, and a lot of players aren't to keen on paying in advance.

If your time and your wallet allow it, an international tournament that combines Melee and Brawl can be done, but it's very difficult and if you want to do it, you should think twice about if it is actually possible for you. If not, then be honest to yourself and just host one game. I'd rather attend a well organised tournament with one game than a poorly organised tournament with two.

 

[Greward]

Brawl/Melee tourneys should be done if the hosts are able to it. I think there will always be some TVs for freeplays during the other day's tourney, not too much TVs but enough, and its a good time for see the other game played at high level.
In any case, i dont play melee, so i dont really mind if brawl tourneys put melee or not, its just that a lot of people, at least in spain, play both games and if they go to a tourney they will try to go to one that have both games, not only one. And some melee players are nice to meet in big tourneys lol.
And tero, if brawl is underplayed in germany, just dont host brawl tourneys. In Spain we dont host brawl+ tourneys for example, there's nobody playing it so why would we host one? And the game pretty sucks lol.