Controling the 9?

[Silver Sytos]

It probably is all random, but it would be cool if it wasn't.

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

It so is possible, you just don't have an imagination. I g&w watched for a while and it comes when you do a combo most of the time. Other than that it is random or that is what i saw today. I pulled it 5 times in a row. Never did it till a combo.

ps combo dair dair sideb. my friend did not di till it was to late

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

Millenium items!

"My millenium eye lets me see the cards in your hand! And i have a card I made that makes all my monsters invincible and more powerful!"

"Cheater!"

"Shut up you schizofrenic freak."

"I'm not schizofrenic HE HAS THE PRECIOUS not listening you know we wants to STRANGLE HIM GAHHH MUST DRAW CARD!! YAY ALL FIVE PARTS OF ULTIMATE MONSTER!!!"

"BLARG!!"

"I R WINNAR!

*stab*

"KAIBA! YOU *******!"

That was a funny show.

And the funny thing is, it works. I think the gaming gods just blessed Dire and made him the ultimate G&W player. You can either get the nines or not. It's like calvanism. You might be ****ed anyways, but you're sure as hell gonna try to be good so you don't get ****ed anyways. Bad analogy, but basically some of us aren't going to get nines, but we try anyways cuz if we don't we DEFINATELY won't get 9s.

And the rest of use like 8s.

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

So true so true

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I made a thread about this a long time ago, i'll just repost what I said here:

***
I did a little bit of testing and I found that the first judgement can never be a 1 or 2 (as omegablackmage mentioned), and the second judgement after the first can be a 1, but still cannot be a 2.

However in a match the chances of getting a 9 is really only 1/7 assuming that the last 2 judgements weren't a 9, we know that in any judgement it cannot be the 2 numbers before, thereby eliminating the chance they appear, therefore a 1/7 chance.

With the game not allowing 1 and 2 to appear in the first judgement, it still means there is a 1/7 chance of a 9 in the first attempt, and in the second, judgement 2 won't ever appear, but 1 will, however the number in the first judgement can't appear again, therefore its still a 1/7 chance for the second attempt.

Chance of a Judgement 9 = 1/7 chance assuming the previous 2 numbers weren't a 9.

(I tested and it did appear that there is an equal chance of getting any of the 7 selectable numbers)

Therefore - it's in GW's best interest to do 2 filtering judgements after a killer J9 to restore the chance of getting a 9 again in the next judgement.
***

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

well your wrong, study only proves maby your version of smash not mine.

 

[Bullfrog]

well your wrong, study only proves maby your version of smash not mine.

lol, Any backup one why he's wrong? Do you even know what version of smash you have, since they're sooo totally different? Why not make a study for yours, then, instead of just telling people "your wrong"?

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

I have the original version 00 and as we speak i tested the nine with g&w and the i pull a nine then i fought for while and again without using it bam another 9. No explanation to why just maybe it could be timed or it resets it self i don't know but it dosen't have to be done in a 1 swing or 2 to reset it

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

It will reset if you die

 

[Mahjong]

even if it resets its still random isn't it?

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

I think it is combo related and only really works if the character is in a juggled state or in a certain distance away. G&W knows

ps

 

[Brawlmatt202]

I think it is combo related and only really works if the character is in a juggled state or in a certain distance away. G&W knows

ps

Yes, G&W knows all!

PS: Haunter rocks!

PPS: Seriously, though, I think it's just random.

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

try to combo and land a nine then repeat you might get it

ps

 

[Brawlmatt202]

try to combo and land a nine then repeat you might get it

ps

Right, land a combo...

...How do I do that?

 

[SEPHlROTHKEN]

play marth hes bettr

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

hahaha noob says marth. G&W is the bomb dog son master.

ps nine him, just kidding what is up

 

[KevinM]

There is no way to control the nine, if possible don't you think that G&W would be the most broken character ever. That is completely random, its based on numbers in the system not a timer. End of discussion, find an article that says differently and then it might be worth arguing

 

[Brawlmatt202]

There is no way to control the nine, if possible don't you think that G&W would be the most broken character ever. That is completely random, its based on numbers in the system not a timer. End of discussion, find an article that says differently and then it might be worth arguing

...Ojay, then.

 

[Aiko]

Last night I was playing against my friend with G&W and I specifically ran through hammers until I got 9's. What i noticed was a large number of 9's were coming after 8's. Now i dont believe for a second that 9's ALWAYS comes after 8's but it may be that once the "random" number generator has stabilised in a game, then it may be possible that 9's can be predicted.

In one particular match I actually 9'd him 3 times, which must be more than luck. What i did was filter as many hammers as possible till i get a 9. I mentally note down what number came before the 9 and continue filtering till I get that number again (in this case it was 8). I set up for combo and hammer, and 3/4 times it was a 9.

I dont think this is a definite way to get 9's but it seemed to work for me. Its probably best to filter several 9's and find the most common preceding number to the 9 and place your bets on that one. Can anyone test this on their version and see what they come up with?
I play PAL btw.

 

[Brawlmatt202]

Last night I was playing against my friend with G&W and I specifically ran through hammers until I got 9's. What i noticed was a large number of 9's were coming after 8's. Now i dont believe for a second that 9's ALWAYS comes after 8's but it may be that once the "random" number generator has stabilised in a game, then it may be possible that 9's can be predicted.

In one particular match I actually 9'd him 3 times, which must be more than luck. What i did was filter as many hammers as possible till i get a 9. I mentally note down what number came before the 9 and continue filtering till I get that number again (in this case it was 8). I set up for combo and hammer, and 3/4 times it was a 9.

I dont think this is a definite way to get 9's but it seemed to work for me. Its probably best to filter several 9's and find the most common preceding number to the 9 and place your bets on that one. Can anyone test this on their version and see what they come up with?
I play PAL btw.

That's fairly interesting. I wish I had the time and attention spand to check that sort of thing for myself, but I'm glad at least one of us took the time to do that.

 

[alphameric]

i get a lot of nines.
i find if you spam judgment it's less likely to pop-up, whereas when you use it in a pinch, bam, 9 in the face.
from my experience they're more common at these points :
- in the first 2 seconds of the game before 'GO' disappears
- when at high damage
- when you REALLY need it

that last point is the basic sum of it all. i've had countless nines when it really made sense for one to come out. you'll never feel happier once you get a 9 on the off-stage return.

 

[Aiko]

i get a lot of nines.
i find if you spam judgment it's less likely to pop-up, whereas when you use it in a pinch, bam, 9 in the face.
from my experience they're more common at these points :
- in the first 2 seconds of the game before 'GO' disappears
- when at high damage
- when you REALLY need it

that last point is the basic sum of it all. i've had countless nines when it really made sense for one to come out. you'll never feel happier once you get a 9 on the off-stage return.

I did that to my friend too. I was on my last stock, so was he (playing doc) and he hit me off the stage and I was on about 120% (almost gauranteed death since gaw is light) so i gave a last ditch attempt to hammer when i was falling towards the stage and I 9'd ftw. needless to say my friend was not happy at all...

 

[nocsha]

I usually only pull nines out when i don't need it and when im above 350%

 

[Brawlmatt202]

I usually only pull nines out when i don't need it and when im above 350%

That figures...

No, seriously, it figures that it appears when you don't need it, and that it appears when you're in very critical danger.

In a way it makes sense.

 

[Falco&Victory]

Well, it's a simple matter or memorizing the algorithm in accordance to how long you've been playing
s = second(starts at 0, goes to 8(8=9, 0=1, etc.)) x = number on hammer

x = (1/2s) ^ 2)/(s ^ 2)
Oh, I forgot the alternate equation
judgement = MAGIC

 

[Ensee]

I pull the 9 out all the time and make people run away.

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

The danger theroy sounds about right, the higher the damage the more likely the chance

ps

 

[Bailey]

Man when I play as GW I know when I am getting a nine because I can feel the combo **** but then again I feel that everytime I use the hammer lol.

 

[Jihnsius]

The only way to make a "random" number is to base it off of a timer. There is no such thing as a truly random element, either in computers or in life. The theory that it is based on the milliseconds and xx.9x or xx.x9 is close, in theory, to how it works, but most videogames don't use the actual timer readout for their randomization, they use an algorithm that changes with the timer, thus giving a more "random" feeling.

In order to truly control the random element, you'd need to understand the algorithm for determining randomizing, and then have frame perfection (and that still would be difficult, since a frame is 1/60th of a second, and randomization is based on a 1/100th of a second scale.)

As for "resetting" and all those arguements: Wrong. Your studies are probably just giving you odd coincidences for not getting multiple 9s in a row without dying. I've gotten plenty of 9s in a row within seconds of eachother (probably 3 or 4 in a row at one point in time,) and I'm sure many other people here have, too.

Of course, I'm not denying the theory that it's possible to set up for a 9 and be able to pull it off a decent amount of times. It appears that, due to diversity in opinions on this from personal experience, there is a factor that goes into it other than randomizing. Example (theoretical): If you're simply standing and do judgement hammers 100s of times to test how many times it works out, you might come up with an answer that it's only possible to do after it resets after two judgement hammers later. Perhaps this outcome will change if you're running, jumping, falling, after a certain attack, etc. In my opinion, according to the statistics of how everyone seems to get different "randomized" out comes, all signs point to the idea that it is somehow controllable, if only just a little bit.

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

hahaha this guys may be on to somthing

ps keep up the work strech we may one day crack that secret

 

[Supreme Pie Ninja]

RNG's don't have to be set to some kind of a timer. Some normal calculators have a "Ran#" button, that gives 0.xxx, where the x's are random digits down to the third decimal place. Unless they decide to put random timers in calculators, which I doubt.

Anyway, just for the heck of it, I did some random testing today. I only threw out 200 hammers, but I might do some more when I have some more free time. Here's what I got:

First 100 Hammers
1 - 8
2 - 13
3 - 12
4 - 16
5 - 7
6 - 12
7 - 10
8 - 9
9 - 13

Second 100 Hammers
1 - 16
2 - 14
3 - 7
4 - 10
5 - 9
6 - 11
7 - 9
8 - 14
9 - 10

Totals/200
1 - 24 - 12%
2 - 27 - 13.5%
3 - 19 - 9.5%
4 - 26 - 13%
5 - 16 - 8%
6 - 23 - 11.5%
7 - 19 - 9.5%
8 - 23 - 11.5%
9 - 23 - 11.5%

So that's what I got this time. Just did these in Training Mode, no strings attached (no deaths, etc.). It'd be great if we could get data like this from more different people, so we can better compare the results

 

[Jihnsius]

RNG's don't have to be set to some kind of a timer. Some normal calculators have a "Ran#" button, that gives 0.xxx, where the x's are random digits down to the third decimal place. Unless they decide to put random timers in calculators, which I doubt.

So that's what I got this time. Just did these in Training Mode, no strings attached (no deaths, etc.). It'd be great if we could get data like this from more different people, so we can better compare the results

Brilliant. This is better than the Peach turnip testing. I'll contribute to this.

As for RNGs: They don't have to be a set to a timer, no, but every programming language that I know of uses a timer to generate random numbers. I guess they could use some other tricky equation to come up with a "random" number, but it'd just be a waste of time unless they really don't want anyone to be able to crack how the numbers are generated (gambling that uses random numbers, for example.)

Remember that guy that developed gambling software back in the 80s and found a way to beat Kino every time? We should so do that with G&W. Find somebody that worked on Melee, get them to find or recreate the algorithm for determining Judgements, and have him incorporate it into a controller so that the forward B will delay until it's going to be a 9 (which should almost always be within 5 frames.) All 9s = top-tier ftw?

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

What if the code is unlocked then what free hammers galore this would be awsome but in turn destroy all that play this game, hay that would be awsome to see nines all the time but if everyone mained him it would become devestating.

 

[KevinM]

I would still main bowser if its any consolation, and i hate to be a nay sayer but i still say its completely random folks

 

[Dark Iori Yagami]

Well if it happens you probbly will switch out of curiosity and power

ps two hit a death

 

[Jihnsius]

First 100 Hammers - vs Falco, on Battlefield, all shorthopped, training mode
1 - 13
2 - 10
3 - 12
4 - 15
5 - 9
6 - 10
7 - 8
8 - 12
9 - 11
0% - 156%

Second 100 Hammers - vs Falco, on Battlefield, next to him (hitting him), training mode
1 - 12
2 - 12
3 - 8
4 - 15
5 - 14
6 - 10
7 - 9
8 - 9
9 - 11
0% - 144%

Third 100 Hammers - vs Falco, on Battlefield, high percentages, training mode
1 - 8
2 - 15
3 - 11
4 - 11
5 - 9
6 - 13
7 - 12
8 - 12
9 - 9
144% - 240%

Totals/300
1 - 33
2 - 37
3 - 31
4 - 46
5 - 32
6 - 33
7 - 29
8 - 33
9 - 31

Totals add up to 305, probably just added something wrong. Oh well.

 

[KevinM]

Well if it happens you probbly will switch out of curiosity and power

ps two hit a death

Sheik is one walking cheap glitch but yet, we Low-tiers still main our characters with love correct, again i say to you BOWSER IS TO CUTE TO ABANDON

 

[DarthLuigi36]

This is fascinating. As Jihnsius said, perhaps there's a connection to the placement of the attack (Such as on the ground vs. in the air, etc.). I'll contribute to this thread, I'm going to do some standing hammers in front, standing from behind, air in front, air from behind, and maybe something else if I think of it. I'll edit this post and/or reply to this tomorrow.

 

[Jihnsius]

This is fascinating. As Jihnsius said, perhaps there's a connection to the placement of the attack (Such as on the ground vs. in the air, etc.). I'll contribute to this thread, I'm going to do some standing hammers in front, standing from behind, air in front, air from behind, and maybe something else if I think of it. I'll edit this post and/or reply to this tomorrow.

Go ahead and report what stage it was on, vs what character, and what percents you were both at. Perhaps we'll find a link somewhere.

 

[Supreme Pie Ninja]

More results!

Final Result Today
I uze teh jugment hamer nd teh doods r leik "WTF HAX"

On a serious note, I might be able to get more tests done today