Concerns and suggestions about ledges and edgeguarding

[MuraRengan]

As we've seen from the available gameplay footage, it seems as though the ledge system of Smash4 will resemble less of Brawl, super safe and easy to recover to, and more like Melee, incredibly dangerous due to large vulnerability windows. As a Melee player myself, this concerns me because one of my major gripes with Melee was that edgeguarding was too strong. Without the auto-ledge snapping of brawl, characters would have far too much vulnerability to attacks that cover the ledge. If you've played project m, you've been forced to eat a charged ike fsmash with nothing you could really do about it. if the ledges in smash4 function like melee ledges without creating some more survivability options for the recovering player, i'd be very disappointed. However, i definitely would not like to see the return of the brawl edge system, because it was altogether too safe. But I think that with a simple new mechanic, the ledge system can keep the melee style of vulnerability while giving the player a variable means of increasing his chances of survival.

The idea is this: allow characters to cancel their up+b revovery with an airdodge. The airdodge does not affect momentum, and leaves the user in a helpless state afterward. This mechanic refreshes upon being hit or touching the ground.

The usefulness of this should be obvious, but I'd like to emphasize the depth in edgeguarding it would create. It would create another system of variability, much like techs and rolls, which players can use as read opportunities. Ultimately, it would reward the player who can outsmart the other with either a kill or survival.

Obviously we have no idea whether or not this will be a mechanic in Smash 4. I just thought it was a good idea and would like to hear some opinions about it.

 

[Zonderion]

I personally like the auto-ledge snapping of brawl. If anything, the range at which the characters grabbing the ledge could be diminished a little. But I think it should be safer (as in brawl's type). The game should be about the skill each player has on the stage, while maintaining the ability to edge guard/gimp characters. It was far too easy to edge guard in melee and 64. They boosted the recovery options and added the auto-ledge for the casuals in brawl, but since Sakurai wants this to be a mix of melee and brawl, I say diminish the range of the auto-ledge.

The Up-B canceled Air Dodge could be useful in its attempts to get back on stage. However, Sakurai has stated that multiple air dodges will be in smash 4 (unless they change their minds). Canceling the Up B with an air dodge will still leave them helpless? I think it should due to the fact they used their Up-B.

 

[himynameisruss]

the ledge game is, at times, my favorite part of melee. they completely ruined it with brawl.

i see it as something that gives smash bros a uniqueness compared to other fighting games.

 

[XavierSylfaen]

I think that autosnapping should be removed but I think anything adding depth is a good idea.

I think it would have to cancel momentum, though, because otherwise Fox and other characters would just have easymode Firefox into airdodge recovery from the side.

 

[[Corn]]

It honestly doesnt look like they made it like melee ledges, it still has much more autosnapping from what I can see.

 

[XavierSylfaen]

It honestly doesnt look like they made it like melee ledges, it still has much more autosnapping from what I can see.

Don't forget that when we first saw Brawl it was running on a modified Melee engine. This is very likely running on a modified Brawl engine given that autosnapping functions nearly exactly the same way from the gameplay we've seen so far.

 

[[Corn]]

Don't forget that when we first saw Brawl it was running on a modified Melee engine. This is very likely running on a modified Brawl engine given that autosnapping functions nearly exactly the same way from the gameplay we've seen so far.

Understood, but based on what we have seen on ledges. They arent exactly melee and arent exactly brawl.

One thing I did notice, is Mario's Up B gives him more Horizontal movement now, he like teleports slightly forwards then goes on his arc.

 

[XavierSylfaen]

Understood, but based on what we have seen on ledges. They arent exactly melee and arent exactly brawl.

One thing I did notice, is Mario's Up B gives him more Horizontal movement now, he like teleports slightly forwards then goes on his arc.

Take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vQD1yJinzeQ#t=328s

Listen closely at 5:34. Edgeglue is confirmed at least for these early builds.

 

[[Corn]]

Take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vQD1yJinzeQ#t=328s

Listen closely at 5:34. Edgeglue is confirmed at least for these early builds.

I actually did that yesterday and managed to get a nice pic of it.

He clearly was close enough to recover with his up B. Or am I missing something?

 

[XavierSylfaen]

I actually did that yesterday and managed to get a nice pic of it.

He clearly was close enough to recover with his up B. Or am I missing something?

My point was that at least in these early builds sticky ledges are confirmed, for if they weren't then Mario would have gone up past the ledge.

I'm hoping for their removal because I want the ability to hit someone with an up+B from below the stage (with a character besides Ike) without being forced onto the ledge.

 

[M15t3R E]

Here's how I would like it to be: Remove the brawl-style edge auto-snapping but if your character touches the edge of the stage (so long as you aren't bounced off it from an attack and not in a move animation) you do automatically grab it, regardless of the direction you are facing.

 

[[Corn]]

My point was that at least in these early builds sticky ledges are confirmed, for if they weren't then Mario would have gone up past the ledge.

I'm hoping for their removal because I want the ability to hit someone with an up+B from below the stage (with a character besides Ike) without being forced onto the ledge.

Oh, I understand, I though you guys meant like magnet ledges where you were 20 feet away and not recovering and you teleport to the ledge.

I actually liked the auto snapping but not the magnet ledge, but that is just me.

 

[TreK]

Lots of good ideas in this thread.
I already posted my suggestion somewhere, here it is :

Brawl's ledge, but with the tether rule adapted and generalized to normal ledge grabbing : if you grab the ledge more than three times without landing, you don't have the invincibility anymore.

 

[grandmaster192]

Melee edges would be ideal. You make recovery safe, you'll end up with long drawn out matches with characters living too long and matches taking forever to finish. But it doesn't matter to me either way. I cam adapt to either or.