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In the past, yes, but each are their own series now. They can exist independently, as seen with Wooly World, Warioware, and the DKC revival. They're no more Mario now than Kirby or Fox is. Nevermind that the Mario reps actually share icons. Even Bowser, who arguably has his own icon available, yet keeps getting grouped with Mario's crew.
You're right, it's a theory. It's also a theory I haven't seen hard evidence in debunking. On the CSS, no series out-represents Mario. Period. This has repeated itself three times prior, and there's no reason to think it will change now.
What other evidence? Mewtwo's fans have been shouting her down ever since he failed to make the grade. There's also no real reason to think Sceptile's joining because first that's just too many Pokemon, and second the trio style was PT's gimmick, who is gone.
Maybe, but if someone could supply solid evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it. Sakurai may say that he considers transformation characters separate, but actions speak louder than words, and he grouped them all under single labels, which also had the effect of keeping the Mario Theory intact.
Valid.
Also valid.
Invalid. Charizard/Squirtle/Ivysaur existed under Pokemon Trainer, who was the CSS representative.
Massive oversaturation of Pokemon. Sceptile has no real chance of making it. Trainer's DOA and ironically carries the same stigma his predecessor, Mewtwo, does. Mewtwo will either be a boss or be totally absent. 47 + Random completely kills their chances out of the gate by working with the Mario theory and disallowing Mario any additional reps.
Agreed, he's gone.I'm still thinking we got 5-6 cuts.
Snake, Ivysaur, Squirtle, one Star Fox character, one Mother character, and maybe Jigglypuff.
I don't "want" cuts, but thinking we won't get any cuts at all is ridiculous.
Obvious reasoning is obvious. Snake never really fit into Smash Bros. and Kojima doesn't think Snake is likely to return, plus we've already got three third-party gaming icons.
Mario Theory works against them as well as Greninja's inclusion. These two have no point to exist anymore.
I would actually argue that WOLF was the most likely fourth cut before Gematsu speculated that Lucas was likely to get the axe, since he's easily the weakest member of the Star Fox trio on the roster. He lucked out hard with the news on Lucas, and if Lucas isn't cut, then I would assert that Wolf is gone. Falco's going nowhere, he's a staple of Smash, especially Melee-style Smash.
Falco is the problem. I don't care about his "Melee" status or being popular in competitive play, he's barely different from Fox at all, and custom movesets make him completely redundant. Unless they add a new "clone" system where other characters can be unlocked as skins of an existing character but can be given their own movesets, I think Falco is safely gone.
Wolf is the main "pilot" villain of the series and is more original, plus he was intended to be in before Falco anyway. He was also always more popular than Falco prior to Melee.
Gematsu paints a totally different picture, and it hasn't been wrong yet. Despite all of the hand wringing about O12 status, the fact that all twelve, despite whatever conditions they faced, made it in speaks volumes. They are the core of Smash Brothers, for better or worse, and they're not going anywhere. It'd be like if KOF cut Kyo, or it'd be like when Street Fighter cut Ryu/Ken in SF3(who were promptly re-added in later SF3 sequels as per fan outcry).
See above about O12. Plus this is a Pokemon that Sakurai absolutely loves. Sakurai bias is confirmed to exist, so what makes people think she's going anywhere? She's in, zero doubt, which means Mario Theory kills Mewtwo's chances, which is unsurprising seeing as he died on the table in Brawl, too.
Sakurai loves his WTF characters, and R.O.B.'s among the greatest of them.
If we can identify any particular pattern in character roster selection, we can more easily guess the full roster, which in turns makes it easier to tell who's in and who's not. O12 and Mario Theory are repeated, noticeable patterns. Anything that's tried to disrupt the patterns have failed. This is quite significant, I'd say.
You can't customize appearance.
Mewtwo's problem is that he's not core to Smash. Jigglypuff is, and there's only room for one.
Sakurai's design methodology works against larger rosters too. Remember, he typically builds them from scratch rather than just reuse assets. So every character is pretty much renewed every iteration.
Which is pretty much my point, the workload is getting bigger and bigger but games that stay 2+ years in development are typically a huge strain on resources. This is even more problematic for a developer like Nintendo because they work on so many products at once. Nintendo does have the benefit of having so many second parties too but, even then, Nintendo's big wigs are heavily involved for the sake of quality control and funds and human resources are still provided by Nintendo itself for the most part. It begs the question of whether Smash Bros is approaching "critical mass" and becoming somewhat of a white elephant development wise.
Ness and Lucas fight almost nothing like each other. The special moves are really the only moves they share, and they're the only ones that can be customized in SSB4 anyway. PK Love is Lucas's signature move, and if he just had Ness's regular physical attacks then he might as well not be there.
Strongly agree with this. As a third variation on the same Star Fox character, Wolf is by far the least necessary rep on the Brawl roster. Falco might be closer in playstyle to Fox, but as I've said before Falco has a lot more weight to him with two Smash games under his belt and his status as a protagonist.
Mewtwo not appearing in SSB4 doesn't really mean he's getting the axe 'twice'. He only got the axe once, the axe isn't necessary to keep him out of the fourth game.
There were 6 PKMN in Brawl what's to keep 6 out of this title.
The Mario Theory.
Do you think Ivysaur and Squirtle are coming back? If not, what do you think is keeping them out?
OMFG stop citing the Mario Theory it is invalid as **** and you know it.
The fact that Charizard was shown and NOT them? We already have a water type as well.
It's a demonstrable pattern that suggests very much that Mewtwo is not getting in. Plus, if he couldn't get into Brawl with the lion's share of the work done on him then, what makes you think starting fresh now will increase his chances?
the fact that a lot of work WAS done on him. Of all the cut characters, he was byfar the most complete. Add in the fan demand WORLWIDE and the hinting he did last year, and you have all signs point to Mewtwo Striking Back.
Remember though that Sakurai does not re-use assets. Every character, from the most recent newcomer to Mario himself, is rebuilt from the ground up. That takes a lot of time. If Sakurai decided that Mewtwo just wasn't worth doing back in Brawl, then it's highly probable that, for whatever reason, Mewtwo just isn't good enough for Smash according to Sakurai, and he won't be appearing in Smash 4. Same as Ridley, same as Krystal, same as any other heavily-demanded fan character. Jigglypuff is not going anywhere, and the Mario Theory has held true so far. There's just no room for Mewtwo.
Facts are facts man. Jigglypuff got into Brawl. Mewtwo died on the table. There's no reason to think he's coming back after that.
Jigglypuff worthy for Smash but not Mewtwo? Don't make me laugh.
Smash may well be reaching its maximum size, at least under Sakurai. People could argue then that Sakurai's the bottleneck, but he's also been the QA that's kept Smash viable and interesting over its entries, certainly leagues better than PSA:BR(which had neat ideas but very poor execution). A lot of people seem to gloss over the fact that the extra modes and quirks of Smash beyond just the roster are what give the game its charm and it serves incredibly well in multiple roles; an intense multiplayer game, a fun single-player experience, and an intriguing museum through which to browse the history of gaming itself. Taking any of those three aspects away, especially for something so shallow as extra characters, would rob it of something unique, I think.
BUT HE WAS PLANNED AND NEARLY FINISHED
And then work stopped on him. You're right. He was almost done. So why stop right at the finish line? Was it time? Probably not, if that much work was already done, it should have been easy to finish either before or even during the debug phase. So then what did stop them from finishing? I suspect that they just gave up on Mewtwo and decided to put effort into other characters. If they gave up on him then, again, why do you think there's a better chance for him now, when they'd have to redo all of their work?
They stopped because they wanted to get the game out sooner.
Then Mewtwo's obviously not that important to Smash.
No, Sakurai was catering to the demand little dickhole fans who wanted it NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
I strongly doubt that Sakurai was feeling pressure to release Brawl so early that it would render several characters unplayable.
And? Several games spend multiple years in development, particularly large ones like Smash brothers. Believe me, rushing to meet that January release deadline wasn't what cost Mewtwo his shot.
....January....
Fair enough. If it happens, it happens, but I really doubt the Mario Theory, O12, and 47 + Random are wrong. They just seem to be lining up really well with reality.
I'm telling you there's going to be 6 PKMN reps. Both are making it.
Hooooboy. There's a whole thread dedicated to that little topic. Suffice to say, there's actually little left for me to speculate now. From the evidence I've gotten, I believe I know not just the roster size(47 + Random) but also the characters on the roster. This comes from several sources such as the Gematsu leak, Mario Theory, and the O12 status.
True, if Mario gets a sixth rep, I could see Mewtwo slinking back in. 47 + Random precludes a sixth Mario rep, though, at least unless there are very surprising veteran cuts.
No franchise can have more character slots than Mario, nevermind the fact that Pokemon had more characters in Brawl and was planned to have even more than that.
Mario Theory concerns the CSS, not playable reps(and there are several that may consider Pokemon Trainer or Zelda/Sheik single characters, due to them being unable to exist without the others). Pokemon may have had Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Charizard, Ivysaur, and Squirtle, but the CSS said it had Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Lucario, and Pokemon Trainer. Four slots on the CSS, makes it line up with Mario's slots. This pattern is as of yet unbroken. And remember, even if Mewtwo was planned, so was Dr. Mario, which would have evened it out again(5 vs 5).
That's exactly what I said, no franchise can have more character SLOTS than Mario.
