Concerning the Issue of Characters Not Returning

[TeenGirlSquad]

I want a healthy mix of newcomer and veteran DLC. But I don't see who would be veteran DLC besides Lucas, Mewtwo (if he's not in the main roster), and maybe Roy.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I want a healthy mix of newcomer and veteran DLC. But I don't see who would be veteran DLC besides Lucas, Mewtwo (if he's not in the main roster), and maybe Roy.

If fans pushed hard enough for Snake, he's always a possibility. Kojima is open to it. It's simply showing the desire for Snake to be in the game that is needed.

I think it's possible.

 

[Ultinarok]

If fans pushed hard enough for Snake, he's always a possibility. Kojima is open to it. It's simply showing the desire for Snake to be in the game that is needed.

I think it's possible.

I know I said this before, but I think its kinda cool that you're from Buffalo. I thought I was a lonely Smashboarder all by myself in Western NY.

Anyways, I've said this on multiple pages but I believe there will be six cuts:



Falco may be a two-time veteran. He is popular. He's excellent competitively. And yes, I like him. But his specials could easily by worked into Fox as customizable options, and his standards are only semi-unique. Unlike Toon Link, who is incredible important due to representing all of the toon style Zelda games, Falco is just a secondary character and a sidekick. Villain status may be overestimated, but having hero and villain side-by-side seems more sensible than hero and sidekick, especially when the villain fights with an excellent contrast to the hero's style, while the sidekick fights only with a slightly unique flair. Additionally, the possible cutting of Lucas suggests to me that semi-clones with very similar specials who don't offer much else unique or aren't terribly important will not consume roster space. All of this does not bode well for Falco, or to a lesser extent, Wolf. But I doubt both will be cut, and I think Falco may get the ax first.

Squirtle and Saur' are dead without PT. There's no reason for them to return without transformation gimmicks. They were part of a trio that is no longer possible and is now represented by their most popular member, Char, who is picking up the torch in their stead. It seems that most agree that we won't see them again.

Lucas runs into many of the same problems I listed for Falco, like workable specials into Ness and fading importance. The Gematsu leak really seals the deal if its true. Additionally, the Gematsu leak reinforces why we may not see Falco for those reasons (although he IS much more popular in Smash).

Snake is the usual. Third party, better options are already in, hasn't been seen on Nintendo in quite some time, doesn't fit into the bright atmosphere of the new game.

Jiggs, I've explained many times:
-Not even good in its own games, and has NEVER played a major role or been used much in any of them.
-Completely irrelevant to the anime as well after season one.
-Pikachu already advertises the series better, as do Lucario, Charizard and Mewtwo.
-Not terribly popular in Smash either.
-O12 status has been shown to not guarantee anything, with Ness' near-cuts twice.
-Mewtwo is likely to fill up any additional spot for Pokemon due to all the factors working in his favor.
-With a series as diverse as Pokemon, Jigglypuff is far from the best option for a contender.

I feel these six cuts leave the roster at the perfect size with the newcomers. Everyone else, I feel will make it in. And some of these guys may come as DLC too.

 

[FirestormNeos]

I know I said this before, but I think its kinda cool that you're from Buffalo. I thought I was a lonely Smashboarder all by myself in Western NY.

Anyways, I've said this on multiple pages but I believe there will be six cuts:

Six is the highest I see Sakurai and Namco going with. Any more and it'd leave a very empty hole in the roster.

Falco may be a two-time veteran. He is popular. He's excellent competitively. And yes, I like him. But his specials could easily by worked into Fox as customizable options, and his standards are only semi-unique.

Agreed. This roster ain't big enough for BOTH Non-Fox Star Fox reps.

Unlike Toon Link, who is incredible important due to representing all of the toon style Zelda games, Falco is just a secondary character and a sidekick.

By that logic, I want CDI link. That way, we get One Link for every post-OOT timeline.

Villain status may be overestimated, but having hero and villain side-by-side seems more sensible than hero and sidekick, especially when the villain fights with an excellent contrast to the hero's style, while the sidekick fights only with a slightly unique flair.

Let's say next year DC unveils an "Injustice 2: The Search for More Money," but when the game comes out we see cuts.

Do you think people would be more pissed to find Nightwing is no longer playable, or that The Joker is no longer playable?

Additionally, the possible cutting of Lucas suggests to me that semi-clones with very similar specials who don't offer much else unique or aren't terribly important will not consume roster space.

^ this ^

All of this does not bode well for Falco, or to a lesser extent, Wolf. But I doubt both will be cut, and I think Falco may get the ax first.

Yeah, Star Fox had way too many reps in brawl for a series whose last major release was a mid-generation GameCube title. No, a DS game doesn't justify 3 reps for any reason unless it sold like hotcakes. As much as I love drinking Ridley fan's tears, I think we would've been better off with him instead of another Star Fox character. Err, Meta Ridley, anyway.

Squirtle and Saur' are dead without PT. There's no reason for them to return without transformation gimmicks. They were part of a trio that is no longer possible and is now represented by their most popular member, Char, who is picking up the torch in their stead. It seems that most agree that we won't see them again.

Plus, Greninja has taken over the role of the Water-Type rep, so Squirtle has absolutely no chance of returning. In fact, I'd say Greninja drinks more Squirtle tears then Mewtwo's.

Lucas runs into many of the same problems I listed for Falco, like workable specials into Ness and fading importance. The Gematsu leak really seals the deal if its true. Additionally, the Gematsu leak reinforces why we may not see Falco for those reasons (although he IS much more popular in Smash).

Snake, Lucas, Jigglypuff, and either SF character, are perhaps the most contested characters. If Sakurai plans on bringing them back, I hope he announces them as soon as possible so we can end the suspense already.

Snake is the usual. Third party, better options are already in, hasn't been seen on Nintendo in quite some time, doesn't fit into the bright atmosphere of the new game.

Kojima would be fine with it, so it's pretty much all up to Sakurai if he's in or not.

-O12 status has been shown to not guarantee anything, with Ness' near-cuts twice.

-Maybe O12 is the reason why he's only been near-cut as opposed to actually cut...?

-Mewtwo is likely to fill up any additional spot for Pokemon due to all the factors working in his favor.

uhhhhhhhhh...

I feel these six cuts leave the roster at the perfect size with the newcomers. Everyone else, I feel will make it in. And some of these guys may come as DLC too.

DLC/Patches providing characters in a fighting game with online mode would have to run into the whole disk-locked content issue so people who haven't gotten the DLC/Patch can still play online without worrying about their game crashing.

In other words, the entire point of the DLC/Patch would be missed completely.

tl;dr character DLC is a terrible idea.

 

[Ultinarok]

Six is the highest I see Sakurai and Namco going with. Any more and it'd leave a very empty hole in the roster.



Agreed. This roster ain't big enough for BOTH Non-Fox Star Fox reps.



By that logic, I want CDI link. That way, we get One Link for every post-OOT timeline.



Let's say next year DC unveils an "Injustice 2: The Search for More Money," but when the game comes out we see cuts.

Do you think people would be more pissed to find Nightwing is no longer playable, or that The Joker is no longer playable?



^ this ^



Yeah, Star Fox had way too many reps in brawl for a series whose last major release was a mid-generation GameCube title. No, a DS game doesn't justify 3 reps for any reason unless it sold like hotcakes. As much as I love drinking Ridley fan's tears, I think we would've been better off with him instead of another Star Fox character. Err, Meta Ridley, anyway.



Plus, Greninja has taken over the role of the Water-Type rep, so Squirtle has absolutely no chance of returning. In fact, I'd say Greninja drinks more Squirtle tears then Mewtwo's.



Snake, Lucas, Jigglypuff, and either SF character, are perhaps the most contested characters. If Sakurai plans on bringing them back, I hope he announces them as soon as possible so we can end the suspense already.



Kojima would be fine with it, so it's pretty much all up to Sakurai if he's in or not.



-Maybe O12 is the reason why he's only been near-cut as opposed to actually cut...?



uhhhhhhhhh...



DLC/Patches providing characters in a fighting game with online mode would have to run into the whole disk-locked content issue so people who haven't gotten the DLC/Patch can still play online without worrying about their game crashing.

In other words, the entire point of the DLC/Patch would be missed completely.

tl;dr character DLC is a terrible idea.

Honestly, Nightwing vs. Joker...I'm inclined to say they'd rather have Joker. People love the Joker. I've actually never even heard of Nightwing.

There are a lot of factors, like extreme popularity and demand, pivotal roles in recent Pokemon media, and recent refreshes like Psystrike and Mega Mewtwo X/Y working for Mewtwo. Jigglypuff enjoys no refreshing roles or extreme demand, outside of it being a fairy-type, like a ton of other mons. Whoopedy-doo. It isn't any sort of special treatment like what Mewtwo's getting, that's for sure. And while that video is really funny, it by no means debunks Mewtwo. That's like saying that Chrom debunked Ike. That certainly didn't happen. Sakurai just trolled us again, like he did with Ridley, Pseudo-Palutena, and Zamus. Two of those were confirmed after being teased.

O12 might've saved Ness, but I'm more inclined to believe its because Sakurai wouldn't want to abandon repping a series/repping that series' only international release. And even if it saved him, it almost didn't. That means that O12 is not infallible.

I like the idea of character DLC, and it doesn't have to be disc-locked. They'd just have to split DLC character playlists and non-playlists so that people who don't have the data added can still play. Could still admittedly be a problem though.

 

[Aguki90]

Sakurai said that are gonna be less fighter for smash 4 than brawl and I don't see this happening, there like 33-35 characters already confirmed and there lot of more characters missing like Capt. Falco, Ness, Ganondorf, Falco, Wolf, R.O.B., Meta Knight and Lucas.
Wario is gonna be in thanks to Ashely as a AT and Ice Climbers because there the Poplar Bear from Ice Climber in Smash Run.
Snake, squirtle and Ivysaur are most likely cut.
I think that Chrom and Chorus Kid are gonna be IN because there have a reason, especially chorus kid that they have a enemy in Smash Run call the Sneaky Spirits and Chrom (chrome!) just for Arena Ferox stage where one most epic duel happen in that part.
Shulk is rare to see it but he gonna have a sequel.
Takamaru got business in Nintendo land even Star fox and Punch Out!!! don't have a attractions in Nintendo Land.
Only the future will tell. I thinks there gonna be like more than 40 fighters but not 50 due to the 3DS.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Honestly, Nightwing vs. Joker...I'm inclined to say they'd rather have Joker. People love the Joker. I've actually never even heard of Nightwing.

Robin became Nightwing after leaving Batman to fight crime on his own.

I said Nightwing and not Robin because Robin isn't a playable character in Injustice.

But I haven't played Injustice, so maybe he was added as a DLC character or something.

There are a lot of factors, like extreme popularity and demand, pivotal roles in recent Pokemon media, and recent refreshes like Psystrike and Mega Mewtwo X/Y working for Mewtwo. Jigglypuff enjoys no refreshing roles or extreme demand, outside of it being a fairy-type, like a ton of other mons. Whoopedy-doo. It isn't any sort of special treatment like what Mewtwo's getting, that's for sure. And while that video is really funny, it by no means debunks Mewtwo. That's like saying that Chrom debunked Ike. That certainly didn't happen. Sakurai just trolled us again, like he did with Ridley, Pseudo-Palutena, and Zamus. Two of those were confirmed after being teased.

Then again, Greninja is a ninja, not a Telekinetic Hedgehog "Thing" like Mewtwo is, so I guess there's still hope.

O12 might've saved Ness, but I'm more inclined to believe its because Sakurai wouldn't want to abandon repping a series/repping that series' only international release. And even if it saved him, it almost didn't. That means that O12 is not infallible.

I suppose only time will tell if Jiggs returns.

I like the idea of character DLC, and it doesn't have to be disc-locked. They'd just have to split DLC character playlists and non-playlists so that people who don't have the data added can still play. Could still admittedly be a problem though.

So, what Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing did?

 

[Your Hero]

Jiggs, I've explained many times:
-Not even good in its own games, and has NEVER played a major role or been used much in any of them.
-Completely irrelevant to the anime as well after season one.
-Pikachu already advertises the series better, as do Lucario, Charizard and Mewtwo.
-Not terribly popular in Smash either.
-O12 status has been shown to not guarantee anything, with Ness' near-cuts twice.
-Mewtwo is likely to fill up any additional spot for Pokemon due to all the factors working in his favor.
-With a series as diverse as Pokemon, Jigglypuff is far from the best option for a contender.

I agree with most of your post, except for Jigglypuff. First of all I think O12 status is very important, mixed with her being a unique character. Irrelevance is... irrelevant when it comes to Smash Bros, otherwise FZero, Ice Climbers and Earthbound reps, along with G&W and Rob would all be cut since none of them had any games for the past 3-4 iteration of Nintendo consoles (ignoring VC). If you want to argue relevance, Jigglypuff is the only pokemon that logically makes sense to represent the newly introduced fairy type - one of the biggest changes introduced in Pokemon X and Y.

I also personally feel we'll end up with 6 pokemon reps. Your pokemon party can hold 6 pokemon and we did have 6 pokemon in Brawl, even though they only took up 4 character slots. I think Jigglypuff and Mewtwo will make the cut (or Jigglypuff and Sceptile, but I doubt it since Sceptile's chances only rose when ORAS was revealed, and if the character roster was finalized in '12, he likely wasn't a serious choice back then).

Jigglypuff may not be the best option for a contender, but she is the best fairy-type contender imo. 3 Smash games, a major role in the original tv series, and appears in every main pokemon game as a wild pokemon. The only pokemon that I think could compete with Jigglypuff is Gardevoir, but that seems unlikely (she'll likely be a pokeball pokemon again).

 

[FirestormNeos]

Jigglypuff may not be the best option for a contender, but she is the best fairy-type contender imo. 3 Smash games, a major role in the original tv series, and appears in every main pokemon game as a wild pokemon. The only pokemon that I think could compete with Jigglypuff is Gardevoir, but that seems unlikely (she'll likely be a pokeball pokemon again).

By that logic, this pokemon also qualifies for a spot in the roster.

 

[spader13]

Jigglypuff may not be the best option for a contender, but she is the best fairy-type contender imo. 3 Smash games, a major role in the original tv series, and appears in every main pokemon game as a wild pokemon. The only pokemon that I think could compete with Jigglypuff is Gardevoir, but that seems unlikely (she'll likely be a pokeball pokemon again).

Gardevoir is definitely a Pokeball Pokemon again. I saw it at the Smash Fest demo. I'm personally hoping cuts are at most Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Snake, but I'm worried that either Lucas or Wolf will be cut too.

 

[Speculator]

By that logic, this pokemon also qualifies for a spot in the roster.

In what universe does Magikarp have three playable Smash appearances and a major role in the original TV series? In what universe is he the best option to represent the new Fairy type? Putting one point in bold doesn't magically make it the only point you need to address.

I don't like to deal in absolutes, but you're kidding yourself if you think Jiggs is going anywhere. It doesn't matter that she's 'not relevant' to Pokemon right now. She's relevant to Smash and she's always going to be relevant to Smash. This is something I've discussed with people who thought Sheik was going to be removed or replaced. The game series with the biggest influence on SSB is SSB itself.

 

[mahnamahna]

For all we know, Sakurai could have revamped Jigglypuff's moveset to include fairy-like movement and attacks. Overall, she's been there since the beginning and is one of the easiest characters to develop so I doubt she's cut. Lucas, Ivysaur, Squirtle and Snake are the contenders for being cut since they've only been in one Smash game. I'd say the new Star Fox game should keep Falco and Wolf safe from being cut. Ivysaur and Squirtle are gone... just the way it is. Snake is 50/50 - he could be a secret character or he could be cut. Lucas has a solid chance at being cut, but I could see him remaining if there's 48 rather than 47 characters. He'd be the most likely for DLC if he's cut as well in terms of veterans.

 

[Ultinarok]

I agree with most of your post, except for Jigglypuff. First of all I think O12 status is very important, mixed with her being a unique character. Irrelevance is... irrelevant when it comes to Smash Bros, otherwise FZero, Ice Climbers and Earthbound reps, along with G&W and Rob would all be cut since none of them had any games for the past 3-4 iteration of Nintendo consoles (ignoring VC). If you want to argue relevance, Jigglypuff is the only pokemon that logically makes sense to represent the newly introduced fairy type - one of the biggest changes introduced in Pokemon X and Y.

I also personally feel we'll end up with 6 pokemon reps. Your pokemon party can hold 6 pokemon and we did have 6 pokemon in Brawl, even though they only took up 4 character slots. I think Jigglypuff and Mewtwo will make the cut (or Jigglypuff and Sceptile, but I doubt it since Sceptile's chances only rose when ORAS was revealed, and if the character roster was finalized in '12, he likely wasn't a serious choice back then).

Jigglypuff may not be the best option for a contender, but she is the best fairy-type contender imo. 3 Smash games, a major role in the original tv series, and appears in every main pokemon game as a wild pokemon. The only pokemon that I think could compete with Jigglypuff is Gardevoir, but that seems unlikely (she'll likely be a pokeball pokemon again).

Ness and Falcon are more relevant to their series' than Jiggs. Jiggs is unimportant even WITHIN pokemon. Some characters are just dated but represent a series, but Jiggs is both dated and irrelevant in its own. Pokemon has far better options. But if 6 do get in, then by all means, it can be in. I just don't feel it deserves to be in over Mewtwo is all, and if Mewtwo makes the cut, there's a chance Jiggs won't. That's why I feel its possible it could be out. But then again, who knows?

 

[Deleted member]

Why not both?

-Pikachu
-Charizard
-Lucario
-Greninja
-Jigglypuff
-Mewtwo

With the removal of transformations, I think this will be our Pokemon roster. There is no need to cut Jigglypuff, as being relevant has never mattered in Smash Bros. Ike is back, and his most recent appearance was DLC in Awakening. Smash 4 Ike doesn't even use his Awakening design. because it sucks There is also no reason to not add Mewtwo. There is no reason to not include him I can think of. So we have those 6, with Jiggles and Mewtwo being hidden. Perfect, or perfect?

And if you say 6 is too many;
And if you say Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard don't count because they were part of the Trainer, they are programmed, modeled, and animated as 3 separate characters. Having the 6 I listed above would consume just as much resources as Brawl's Pokemon roster. Not to mention Mewtwo was considered during development, which would be 7 Pokemon.
Don't bring up the CSS. That should not be used in any argument for roster size ever.

 

[CapnMuffin]

I like to think anything is possible. The development team doesn't sit down in a conference room at the start and decide on an arbitrary number where that number is the maximum amount of unique characters to have. They probably planned a goal, but it's not like a football team where only some make it and the rest have to get cut. Just because one makes it, doesn't preclude anyone else.

Also, there's a phenomenon that is going to occur with Smash games... which is as more games in the series come out there is going to be more and more character controversy with each sequential game. The reason for this is because as more games come out and more characters are added, the additional characters come from a pool of increasingly specific series or niches.

Example: Smash 64... not many people are going to argue about Mario, Link, Samus, Kirby, etc.
Melee... there are still pretty obvious non-controversial choices like Peach, Zelda, etc.
Now Smash 4... all the obvious choices are taken, so the only ones left are "Extreme Option A" or "Extreme Option B". Obviously A-Supporters will throw a fit if B gets chosen, and vise versa.

I think since we're at Game #4, we are at the junction where some veterans are going to have to bow out and make room for others. I think this is probably most prevalent with Pokemon and Fire Emblem, where there's no true main character and the character pool is massive and always evolving (no pun intended).

 

[Ultinarok]

Why not both?

-Pikachu
-Charizard
-Lucario
-Greninja
-Jigglypuff
-Mewtwo

With the removal of transformations, I think this will be our Pokemon roster. There is no need to cut Jigglypuff, as being relevant has never mattered in Smash Bros. Ike is back, and his most recent appearance was DLC in Awakening. Smash 4 Ike doesn't even use his Awakening design. because it sucks There is also no reason to not add Mewtwo. There is no reason to not include him I can think of. So we have those 6, with Jiggles and Mewtwo being hidden. Perfect, or perfect?

And if you say 6 is too many;
And if you say Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard don't count because they were part of the Trainer, they are programmed, modeled, and animated as 3 separate characters. Having the 6 I listed above would consume just as much resources as Brawl's Pokemon roster. Not to mention Mewtwo was considered during development, which would be 7 Pokemon.
Don't bring up the CSS. That should not be used in any argument for roster size ever.

When I say relevance, I mean importance, significance etc. Jigglypuff has virtually never had that outside of the season one anime. That's a very minor amount of importance to merit adding a character in with a roster of 718 to choose from. There are more significant contributors to the series and its media (all of our confirmed reps and Mewtwo), more popular choices (same thing), characters who are used more often in-game (many, many, many choices), characters who represent the new and fresh (Greninja), characters that represent the old and ever-popular (Charizard, Pikachu, Mewtwo), characters in-between (Lucario), and you better believe, characters with as much potential, if more, than Jiggs.

That said, if we can have both, let us have both, like I said.

 

[FirestormNeos]

In what universe does Magikarp have three playable Smash appearances and a major role in the original TV series? In what universe is he the best option to represent the new Fairy type? Putting one point in bold doesn't magically make it the only point you need to address.

I don't like to deal in absolutes, but you're kidding yourself if you think Jiggs is going anywhere. It doesn't matter that she's 'not relevant' to Pokemon right now. She's relevant to Smash and she's always going to be relevant to Smash. This is something I've discussed with people who thought Sheik was going to be removed or replaced. The game series with the biggest influence on SSB is SSB itself.

woah woah woah woah woaaaah.

What in the hell gave you the idea that I thought Jiggs was cutting cut.

It's the only point I needed to address because it's the only point I disagree with.

I mean good god...

 

[Deleted member]

When I say relevance, I mean importance, significance etc. Jigglypuff has virtually never had that outside of the season one anime. That's a very minor amount of importance to merit adding a character in with a roster of 718 to choose from. There are more significant contributors to the series and its media (all of our confirmed reps and Mewtwo), more popular choices (same thing), characters who are used more often in-game (many, many, many choices), characters who represent the new and fresh (Greninja), characters that represent the old and ever-popular (Charizard, Pikachu, Mewtwo), characters in-between (Lucario), and you better believe, characters with as much potential, if more, than Jiggs.

I think Jigglypuff fills a unique niche among Pokemon that not Pikachu, Charizard, Greninja, Lucario, nor Mewtwo can fill; the common Pokemon that is pretty worthless in battle.

• Pikachu is the series mascot.
• Charizard and Greninja are starters.
• Lucario is mostly given to you by an NPC.
• Mewtwo is a legendary.
• Jigglypuff has no unique characteristics or things that stand out about it in terms of it being a Pokemon. It was a normal type until Generation VI. When you play through Pokemon, you'll run into these monsters, and just simply ignore them. They aren't particularly good in battle after all. They do exist however. And while Jigglypuff isn't the most common Pokemon; (That would be or ) It falls into the same category as most of them. Jigglypuff's moveset perfectly reflects it's generic, useless in battle-ness. Most of it's moves are pitifully weak, and involve smacking the opponent with its stubby arms or legs. Jigglypuff's most powerful attack in Smash Bros. is falling asleep. Sure in Pokemon your goal is to be the very best like no one ever was, but IMO there should be a Pokemon character that represents the more useless 'mons. The ones where simply the act of using them in your team is a bad idea.And hey, guess what? Jigglypuff has seniority in that regard if we need a useless Pokemon character. Not to mention, she's also easy to model and animate, so she doesn't consume too much resources in that regard. In Smash, it's time for the useless 'mons to shine!! in melee

This is all my opinion. I'm pretty sure most don't really want/feel we need a useless Pokemon.

 

[Speculator]

What in the hell gave you the idea that I thought Jiggs was cutting cut.

What was I supposed to think? Tone is notorious for not coming across through text. That's why emoticons were invented

 

[NintenRob]

*looks at jigglypuff argument*

Sheik deconfirmed, Impa confirmed.


Also, people who say R.O.B. has a good chance of being cut really must rethink that stupid thought.

 

[Koopaul]

So if Jigglypuff is confirmed for this game, can we finally accept that she's a permanent member of Smash?

 

[Rymi]

So if Jigglypuff is confirmed for this game, can we finally accept that she's a permanent member of Smash?

she was a original

 

[pupNapoleon]

I know I said this before, but I think its kinda cool that you're from Buffalo. I thought I was a lonely Smashboarder all by myself in Western NY.

Anyways, I've said this on multiple pages but I believe there will be six cuts:



Falco may be a two-time veteran. He is popular. He's excellent competitively. And yes, I like him. But his specials could easily by worked into Fox as customizable options, and his standards are only semi-unique. Unlike Toon Link, who is incredible important due to representing all of the toon style Zelda games, Falco is just a secondary character and a sidekick. Villain status may be overestimated, but having hero and villain side-by-side seems more sensible than hero and sidekick, especially when the villain fights with an excellent contrast to the hero's style, while the sidekick fights only with a slightly unique flair. Additionally, the possible cutting of Lucas suggests to me that semi-clones with very similar specials who don't offer much else unique or aren't terribly important will not consume roster space. All of this does not bode well for Falco, or to a lesser extent, Wolf. But I doubt both will be cut, and I think Falco may get the ax first.

Squirtle and Saur' are dead without PT. There's no reason for them to return without transformation gimmicks. They were part of a trio that is no longer possible and is now represented by their most popular member, Char, who is picking up the torch in their stead. It seems that most agree that we won't see them again.

Lucas runs into many of the same problems I listed for Falco, like workable specials into Ness and fading importance. The Gematsu leak really seals the deal if its true. Additionally, the Gematsu leak reinforces why we may not see Falco for those reasons (although he IS much more popular in Smash).

Snake is the usual. Third party, better options are already in, hasn't been seen on Nintendo in quite some time, doesn't fit into the bright atmosphere of the new game.

Jiggs, I've explained many times:
-Not even good in its own games, and has NEVER played a major role or been used much in any of them.
-Completely irrelevant to the anime as well after season one.
-Pikachu already advertises the series better, as do Lucario, Charizard and Mewtwo.
-Not terribly popular in Smash either.
-O12 status has been shown to not guarantee anything, with Ness' near-cuts twice.
-Mewtwo is likely to fill up any additional spot for Pokemon due to all the factors working in his favor.
-With a series as diverse as Pokemon, Jigglypuff is far from the best option for a contender.

I feel these six cuts leave the roster at the perfect size with the newcomers. Everyone else, I feel will make it in. And some of these guys may come as DLC too.

SO much to read in this thread still... but, I am shedding a tear, someone agrees with me!
Well- I think it could be Ness instad of Lucas, but either way, either way-- Aww, bestill my gooseling flesh

Ultimately, I want Jigglypuff out just to spite these forums.
I wouldn't be surprised if 7 pokemon had initially been planned.

 

[Luigi#1]

Jiggs would/will get in over the following that people seem to think will not be cut:
Wolf was also one of the last 3 to make it and was in only one of the games. Is semi clone.
Less relevant then Jiggs [who was advertised as a Fairy type so she's relevant enough]
Clone, even lower on the tier list, hasn't been in a game for 8 years.
Wasn't in Brawl, Jiggs got over him in Brawl.
See Mewtwo and clone.
See Wolf and is less relevant by far.
I'd put a troll face but I'm not even joking so there you go.

 

[Phaazoid]

I have trouble seeing them cut too many characters.

Melee to brawl had a fair amount of cuts, but it also had a fair amount of obvious last minute characters

Even though the arguments against jiggly have some merit, I have trouble seeing her cut from the game. I mean, 012, but also, think about it like this. from melee to brawl, pichu was cut, and jiggly stayed. I think this was done to somewhat preserve the pokemon reps in the game. if they had cut jiggly, that'd have been half the pokemon reps

we find ourselves in a similar situation now. Squirtly and Ivysaur are most likely gone. Cut jiggly, and that's half your pokemon reps gone. I find it much easier to believe that pokemon stays at 6 reps, with mewtwo and jiggly being the two we haven't seen. If gamefreak cares enough to go back and change her to fairy type, sakurai will keep her.

The only other two characters I see being cut are snake and lucas. Snake, only because of 3rd party issues, and lucas because of the gametsu leak.

For all we know, the final roster could be anywhere from 47-51 characters, roughly. any more or less than that i feel is unrealistic.

Brawl = 39
39 - 4 = 35
if gametsu is true, which I am assuming is the case for now, and so I am counting shulk, chorus, and chrom as confirmed

35 + 12 = 47

But gametsu didn't predict rosalina, so there is room for a few more characters. And on top of that, dlc.

Personally, I hope we get some unique newcomers, like Isaac, ray, K.roo, or sukapon. I'm also a Ridley supporter, but idk thats up in the air at best right now. I'd say we're still in for another WTF sakurai inclusion, but honestly I think that spot is chorus men. Which kinda saddens me, because it's been spoiled, and I like the surprise.

I could see cut and unfinished characters being the first round of dlc as well.

 

[Rymi]

lucas can be majorly reworked since he still has alot to use in his game

 

[Trigger123]

Jiggs would/will get in over the following that people seem to think will not be cut:
Wolf was also one of the last 3 to make it and was in only one of the games. Is semi clone.
Less relevant then Jiggs [who was advertised as a Fairy type so she's relevant enough]
Clone, even lower on the tier list, hasn't been in a game for 8 years.
Wasn't in Brawl, Jiggs got over him in Brawl.
See Mewtwo and clone.
See Wolf and is less relevant by far.
I'd put a troll face but I'm not even joking so there you go.

That is the first time I've seen Ganondorf be listed as being cut. I am not going to lie and i never thought of it, was TP his latest game not including demise? In his Ganondorf form he has only been in like 3 games I think. I understand what your saying I just feel they would not replace him any other villain because he still has the most reps.
I just hope hope wolf doesn't get cut I'd prefer him over falco

 

[Rymi]

That is the first time I've seen Ganondorf be listed as being cut. I am not going to lie and i never thought of it, was TP his latest game not including demise? In his Ganondorf form he has only been in like 3 games I think. I understand what your saying I just feel they would not replace him any other villain because he still has the most reps.
I just hope hope wolf doesn't get cut I'd prefer him over falco

tbh wolf deserves a spot more then falco tho he is semi clone he still can be reworked to be stronger snd stuff

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Clone, even lower on the tier list, hasn't been in a game for 8 years.

....He could always be reworked. Who says he won't be in the new Zelda U game either?

He's the franchise's VILLAIN. Why would they cut him and leave in Link #2?

 

[smashingDoug]

Jiggs would/will get in over the following that people seem to think will not be cut:
Wolf was also one of the last 3 to make it and was in only one of the games. Is semi clone.
Less relevant then Jiggs [who was advertised as a Fairy type so she's relevant enough]
Clone, even lower on the tier list, hasn't been in a game for 8 years.
Wasn't in Brawl, Jiggs got over him in Brawl.
See Mewtwo and clone.
See Wolf and is less relevant by far.
I'd put a troll face but I'm not even joking so there you go.

is the main villain and the whole cone well it works because in OOT that is what he did a lot of punching so they gave him moves and before you say well that energy ball ect hey they might have had not enough room on the disk to make his own moves and as i said it worked with him and the punching he does in oot

 

[Capybara Gaming]

is the main villain and the whole cone well it works because in OOT that is what he did a lot of punching so they gave him moves and before you say well that energy ball ect hey they might have had not enough room on the disk to make his own moves and as i said it worked with him and the punching he does in oot

He was a late addition in Melee, so they took the character with the most similar bodily structure and based him off of that person, Captain Falcon.

~And that's how Equestria was made!~

 

[pupNapoleon]

Jiggs would/will get in over the following that people seem to think will not be cut:
Less relevant then Jiggs [who was advertised as a Fairy type so she's relevant enough]

Well, in terms of RELEVANT, he carries a hell of a lot of gaming history. Jigglypuff carries almost none. If you mean recency, neither. So, your point s moot.

Wasn't in Brawl, Jiggs got over him in Brawl.

The two are not in battle. Jigglypuff got in, and Mewtwo did not make it. There is no indication it was 'over him' or not. Wording is important, and this is a spin I'm getting sick of reading. I could go around saying 'Jigglypuff got stuck in when Mewtwo couldn't get finishted' but that is just my own play on the words, yet could be just as truthful

 

[Luigi#1]

I can remove Ganondorf. That's it.

Well, in terms of RELEVANT, he carries a hell of a lot of gaming history. Jigglypuff carries almost none. If you mean recency, neither. So, your point s moot.


The two are not in battle. Jigglypuff got in, and Mewtwo did not make it. There is no indication it was 'over him' or not. Wording is important, and this is a spin I'm getting sick of reading. I could go around saying 'Jigglypuff got stuck in when Mewtwo couldn't get finishted' but that is just my own play on the words, yet could be just as truthful

Recency. Jigglypuff wins. I was talking about relevancy in recent years.
I meant Jigglypuff made it in but not Mewtwo. If they really wanted Mewtwo in, some other clones wouldn't have made it.
My main point is Jigglypuff isn't going anywhere unless like, atleast 10 cuts took place. 10 cuts will not happen.
EDIT: That list wasn't who I thought would be cut. It was who would be cut before Jigglypuff. Ganondorf ain't going anywhere unless they really have to, which is unlikely. The only ones on that list that I think may be cut are Wolf [or Falco] and Lucas. I will also say Roy ain't coming back.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I can remove Ganondorf. That's it.

Recency. Jigglypuff wins. I was talking about relevancy in recent years.
I meant Jigglypuff made it in but not Mewtwo. If they really wanted Mewtwo in, some other clones wouldn't have made it.
My main point is Jigglypuff isn't going anywhere unless like, atleast 10 cuts took place. 10 cuts will not happen.

I guess my main point is that your main point is strictly an opinion.

 

[Luigi#1]

I guess my main point is that your main point is strictly an opinion.

I suppose it is. But I have confidence Jigglypuff won't get cut unless there is a massive cutting spree. Jigglypuff still is one of the O12 so that already helps her alot.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I suppose it is. But I have confidence Jigglypuff won't get cut unless there is a massive cutting spree. Jigglypuff still is one of the O12 so that already helps her alot.

Well, that is another opinion.
Which I will relish in being broken. *a faint waluigi laugh beckons in the background as I grin*

 

[smashingDoug]

He was a late addition in Melee, so they took the character with the most similar bodily structure and based him off of that person, Captain Falcon.

~And that's how Equestria was made!~

but as i said it does fit him or did for his OOT counterpart

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo's biggest competition is not Jigglypuff.
Mewtwo's biggest competition is Sonic.

And honestly, everyone who wants cuts to happen should rethink that thought.

Cuts are inevitable, but when a character is cut (at least with me anyone) if I didn't play them, I think "Oh, I should have played them much more," and if I did play them, then it's like losing a close friend. Wanting a character to be cut is the same thing is wanting someone to die. (Extreme I know, but it gets my point across.)

 

[Luigi#1]

Mewtwo's biggest competition is not Jigglypuff.
Mewtwo's biggest competition is Sonic.

And honestly, everyone who wants cuts to happen should rethink that thought.

Cuts are inevitable, but when a character is cut (at least with me anyone) if I didn't play them, I think "Oh, I should have played them much more," and if I did play them, then it's like losing a close friend. Wanting a character to be cut is the same thing is wanting someone to die. (Extreme I know, but it gets my point across.)

People want cuts? Wow.

 

[Deleted member]

People want cuts? Wow.

Some people want Falco out, some people want Wolf out, some people want Lucas out, some people want Jigglypuff out, and some people want R.O.B. out. It's kind of sad really.

I certainly don't want any cuts, but they will happen inevitably. If I had my way, then the roster would be all returning veterans