COMPLETELY VANILLA Mafia | Game Over

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

alright so UP is scum, all this slot does is LAMIST and then deflect and backpedal to avoid real conflict with any slot, its so ****in grimy

and then he flips to voting for me immediately after xiivi makes a post keeping me open as a play after claiming that he was only having me as unyeetable as a meme to contradict xiivi? opportunistic as ****, yeah this slot can absolutely go. im starting to get the feeling that UPs style is now just a mask to hide the fact that he wants to look active while not actually scumhunting or contributing anything of real substance. he wants people to know how present he is, but thats about it. its like a desperate attempt to get in good with power players by bEiNg sO aCtIvE and float just above people's "can go" threshold by also being non threatening

##Unvote: mercuri
##Vote: UtopianPoyzin

Nothing I suppose. If it’s not a normal role, then it’s ******* iirc. Could be faulty logic, it’s just not something that I care to consider rn.

this is the most defensive non-answer I think I've ever read in my career of playing mafia and thats saying something

Btw I don’t think Xivii is scum rn, just that they’re pretty far off-base and scum tend to be off-base, but this feels like one of those TvT run-ins that are bound to happen.

Like it just seems that Xivii is reading too far into WIFOM right now instead of realizing that I’m the towniest person in the game

literally flipping from being antagonistic toward xiivis slot to attempted pocketing and more gross LAMIST

I don’t actually townread BF now that I think about it, and FF isn’t unyeetable. I just wanted to contradict Xivii

I agree with this. I think you demonstrated issues with Darkpit's thought process, but that is unrelated to "it".

#HBC | FrozeηFlame Time for the reveal. What is "it" that you, UP, Choco and I get but Darkpit doesn't get?

the bolded:

The mental gymnastics that you were doing here is that you are equating "watered down" to "dressed up." The roles aren't watered down. That would imply they have some functionality. They are dressed up to look like they have functionality but are simply vanilla roles. So Dark Pit's role is not a "watered down IC." All his role is, is literally just that the mod announces what his role is. It has no actual utility.

I think anyone who hasn't figured this out by now is legitimately suss, like it wasn't immediately obvious when I only knew my role in a vaccuum but as soon as people started their roles were weird/contradictory/useless it clicked for me as I've made similar design decisions, especially hosting IRL games, when I want to give slots more "things to do" that actually don't really affect the balance of the game. im like 99% confident that this game is just full of red herring roles that do effectively nothing, like a patriot in a game with no recruiters or a firefighter in a game with no arsonist

I DONT WANT TO OUT PRS

If everybody claims a PR, then nobody knows which is real

like unless UP somehow the only legit PR in the game I cannot comprehend how you can miss the ball this hard

Also, I was thinking about the whole speed hammer thing last game and I realized that the reason vote analysis works at end of day is because votes are only serious when a yeet is a realistic possibility. So I propose we make yeets always a real possibility. We pick one person to be "the judge", then everyone else votes with the intention of getting someone to L-1. Then the judge decides to hammer or give up judgeship. If they decide to not hammer then we have to pick someone new to be judge and someone new to bring to L-1. And we do that until we get a yeet.

What do you guys think?

If we pick a scum as the judge we are literally handing the scum a free trade if they want, and additionally, this would remove our ability to read people for opportunistic wagonomics entirely. I understand your point about it being harder to get real reads from votes that don't really have "teeth" don't carry much weight, but I think thats actually part of the analysis. Is a person just throwing votes around to signal, or are they actually trying to get a wagon into real threat territory. The fact that not all votes are created equal is actually half the reason why wagon analysis works so well, its a multifaceted analysis. Your system removes all differences between votes other than the judge's vote and removes out ability to actually see how and why people are making the pushes that they do. Timing really is everything in this game and it often belies a slots motives

I think I could see the scumteam as Utopian and BoomFrog.

##Vote: Frozen

????

ANNOUNCEMENT

3DSNinja was sent a 'prod' at the time of votecount 1-4

If you believe any player has violated a game rule, including rule 3 which governs activity, we appreciate you bringing it to our attention.
To guarantee it receives our attention, please mention it in reply to your role PM or via private message. Thank you.

literally how does mercuri not get prodded here too wtf?

 

[mərcurı]

literally how does mercuri not get prodded here too wtf?

hey im alive

 

[Xivii]

????

did...did you not see the post in between those two posts?

Additionally, could you state how I showed that Darkpit didn't get it at the time of your statement here:

cosigning all of this, though I think Xivii has clearly demonstrated that darkpit "doesnt get it" either so to me somi/darkpit/mercuri are all yeetable right now

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

he was only having me as unyeetable as a meme to contradict xiivi?

Nope, I was referring to BoomFrog, not you.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I don’t actually townread BF now that I think about it, and FF isn’t unyeetable. I just wanted to contradict Xivii

I decided that you weren’t unyeetable, but I made a knee-jerk “BF is auto-town” reaction that was solely in response to me thinking Xivii has been wrong about everything.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

this is the most defensive non-answer I think I've ever read in my career of playing mafia and thats saying something

It was a non-answer because I literally said I didn’t have an answer

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

And I was just explaining why that was the case

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

literally flipping from being antagonistic toward xiivis slot to attempted pocketing and more gross LAMIST

Those are basically the saying the same thing there is no difference in my treatment of Xivii besides me saying I’m the towniest person in the game because I am

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

like unless UP somehow the only legit PR in the game I cannot comprehend how you can miss the ball this hard

Okee

 

[Xivii]

While we wait for Frozen to show up.

Why? This plan gives a lot of power to one person, but town is usually pretty good at picking one trustworthy person. And if we do pick a scum judge then that great responsibility will force great accountability. I think high pressure situations like that are more likely to make scum crack.

I'll explain once we get the details of your reads. What do you think about Darkpit not responding to your question?

If we are going to mass claim, let's go with this order:

3DSNinja
UtopianPoyzin
somitomi
Mercuri
BoomFrog
FrozenFlame
Xivii

 

[mərcurı]

I'll explain once we get the details of your reads. What do you think about Darkpit not responding to your question?

If we are going to mass claim, let's go with this order:

3DSNinja
UtopianPoyzin
somitomi
Mercuri
BoomFrog
FrozenFlame
Xivii

does the order matter in a significant enough way to merit having an order in the first place

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I'll explain once we get the details of your reads. What do you think about Darkpit not responding to your question?

If we are going to mass claim, let's go with this order:

3DSNinja
UtopianPoyzin
somitomi
Mercuri
BoomFrog
FrozenFlame
Xivii

No

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

hey im alive

so inactives can literally actively taunt us while they deliberately choose not to play the game and they don't get policy lynched for it? man smashboards

did...did you not see the post in between those two posts?

Additionally, could you state how I showed that Darkpit didn't get it at the time of your statement here:

well there were 4 of them so I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to but frankly they dont help me connect the dots from point A to point B, your play comes off erratic here hence my reaction. I get your point with you saying "Actually, there's something that contradicts the notion of Boom/UP" but that still doesn't explain the sudden jump to me when you essentially had me as null in your "big reads list"

re: darkpit, I was referring to your handholding of him in post #119, like you had to essentially spoon feed him the concept of a red herring role and he clearly was struggling with the concept that roles have achetypes and variants within those archetypes which can be used effectively to slot red herring roles into games that you want to make seem less mountainous than they are

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

EBWOP #253: man smashboards has really changed*

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

literally none of UPs responses instill even an iota of confidence in that slot, can we please yeet him or the literally lurking troll?

 

[Xivii]

so inactives can literally actively taunt us while they deliberately choose not to play the game and they don't get policy lynched for it? man smashboards

well there were 4 of them so I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to but frankly they dont help me connect the dots from point A to point B, your play comes off erratic here hence my reaction. I get your point with you saying "Actually, there's something that contradicts the notion of Boom/UP" but that still doesn't explain the sudden jump to me when you essentially had me as null in your "big reads list"

re: darkpit, I was referring to your handholding of him in post #119, like you had to essentially spoon feed him the concept of a red herring role and he clearly was struggling with the concept that roles have achetypes and variants within those archetypes which can be used effectively to slot red herring roles into games that you want to make seem less mountainous than they are

I explained why I thought you could be scum in the bottom of the read post.

What do you think of the points I made in #200?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

literally none of UPs responses instill even an iota of confidence in that slot

You just gotta believe

 

[BoomFrog]

What do you think about Darkpit not responding to your question?

Unhappy. Why did you prod me about it before if even had a chance to naturally show if I cared or not? Seems more like you are pushing me to push DP then you are actually trying to sort me.

Read explanations are on the way.

Darkpit54 , why'd you skip my direct question? Should we mass claim now, and why?

 

[BoomFrog]

does the order matter in a significant enough way to merit having an order in the first place

Hey, hi, how's it going? So you want to actually maybe play the actual game? Like talk about something relevant? Like scum hunting?

You are literally making an irrelevant comment nit picking someone making a list that you think is already irrelevant. Doesn't that seem like the lowest value contribution you could possibly make?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Eh, this is turning into Oasis Mafia 2 for me which is not good so I’m going to lay off for now. I’m not claiming second.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

But on the contrary, I am absolutely vibing rn and I think I’ve almost solved the game already. But doesn’t that always happen? Idks. When was the last time I was scum on Smashboards, I genuinely don’t remember. Was it seriously Sorcerer’s?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

All I know is that Frozen is looking REALLY grimy in #241. I haven’t done anything scum-motivated and you know it. (Hint: it’s because I’m not scum)

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

sure but you explained why many slots could be scum for many reasons in the same post so I'm not sure how you saying me joining your point on darkpit felt like a "throwaway bus" explains why you voted for me when you spent most of that post indicting BF, DP and UP. like listen I'm not saying it doesn't follow at all from the positions you've articulated but like it was legitimately confusing for me to see that because it was not at all the direction your posts seemed to be pointing in

re: #200 firstly I think your point about scum using hedging language to falsify a genuine sense of townie read progression is strong and shows you're actually thinking about the subtleties of expression which feels like legitimate town sensitivity to fake scumhunting

tbh I ignored the meta arguments because I think they're borderline WIFOM anyway and don't really find them persuasive

somi's #70, DP agreeing with it in #74, those both being responsive to UP's #51, all share the feature of demonstrating that these slots did not quickly grasp the misleading nature of this setup instantly made me suspicious of those slots and your argument re: the implication "that the action isn't scummy because it didn't result in a negative outcome" reaches a little bit but isn't absurd at face value and applies meta re the slots "intent mindedness" that I don't have the meta knowledge to really evaluate effectively so I didn't really have anything to add to or respond to there

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Xivii , if you were curious, I still think that your case on DP in #200 is overflowing with conjecture. I don’t think they’ve acted that unnatural, but I’m just going to lay-off of DP and let you do your thing there.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I definitely grasp the setup. We can talk about it after the game though

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Eh, this is turning into Oasis Mafia 2 for me which is not good so I’m going to lay off for now. I’m not claiming second.

this is totally normal townie play right? Just saying "im not doing that" without even attempting to provide a reason? what I still can't get over his how you don't realize how little the claim order is going to matter lmao

All I know is that Frozen is looking REALLY grimy in #241. I haven’t done anything scum-motivated and you know it. (Hint: it’s because I’m not scum)

"I'm so town and its so obvious how could any slot POSSIBLY attack me?! The audacity! The grime! LAMIST ad nauseum!"

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I definitely grasp the setup. We can talk about it after the game though

>grasping the setup
> thinking claimorder will matter

pick one

did kary just give you ****ty safeclaims or some ****? this flailing is wild

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Oh yeah, I forgot to talk about the part in Xivii’s post that you bolded.

Why Noisy Child is a watered down Innocent Child.

The innocent child has their role and alignment known.

The noisy child has their role, but not their alignment known.

So I consider it NC a 50% IC

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

>grasping the setup
> thinking claimorder will matter

pick one

did kary just give you ****ty safeclaims or some ****? this flailing is wild

/shrug

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

this is totally normal townie play right? Just saying "im not doing that" without even attempting to provide a reason? what I still can't get over his how you don't realize how little the claim order is going to matter lmao

It probably doesn’t tbh. I just don’t want to

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

It probably doesn’t tbh. I just don’t want to

that was an amazingly fast backpedal

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

that was an amazingly fast backpedal

If only I was backpedaling

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I’m still not claiming second

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

If only I was backpedaling

"lol im not backpedaling, I was just pretending to care about claim order the whole time! I totally don't care at all!"

I’m still not claiming second

"but actually tho I care"

:thinkingemoji:

 

[BoomFrog]

I’m still not claiming second

It's it because you are claiming first?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

"I'm so town and its so obvious how could any slot POSSIBLY attack me?! The audacity! The grime! LAMIST ad nauseum!"

Nah fam, but I appreciate you portraying me as a straw man to actually attempt to give your flimsy case substance. Everything you say is devoid of context and has no meaning whatsoever.

this is the most defensive non-answer I think I've ever read in my career of playing mafia and thats saying something

I just don’t want to consider a godfather. I was pretty sure it qualified as a ******* role but I don’t really have a good reason for thinking that, nor does any reason I could think of have anything to do with my alignment and honestly isn’t even remotely important about where I get my definition of ******* in, or whether or not there’s a godfather. Frankly, it doesn’t matter what role scum has to me, because all my job is to take them out. Painting me being ambivalent as giving a non-answer doesn’t actually mean anything in any context, because it isn’t even related to scumhunting and is just the opinion that I’m rolling with of “I’m not going to worry about a godfather.”

literally flipping from being antagonistic toward xiivis slot to attempted pocketing and more gross LAMIST

Absolutely not my friend. Don’t create a false dilemma when both posts can equally present my perspective. You just didn’t like me calling myself town because I was acting like a cocky *****, which yeah, I was. Besides that, I initially believed Xivii’s stance on both me and DP to be fundamentally flawed because of how much they were dwelling on WIFOM. At the same time, they were showing the critical thinking I’d expect from town, but I viewed them to be on the complete wrong path. What you’re doing is painting a picture over an already existing sketch; I’m stating my opinion that Xivii is off-base, which wasn’t even that hostile, and Xivii and I aren’t connecting at all this game so there wouldn’t be any room for pocketing, which I don’t even know where it would apply in this instance either but perhaps you could enlighten me.

"lol im not backpedaling, I was just pretending to care about claim order the whole time! I totally don't care at all!"

"but actually tho I care"

:thinkingemoji:

No, I care the whole time. I’m not claiming second because I’m going to be stubborn. It probably doesn’t matter but frankly I don’t care. Once again you’re twisting my words to create a contradiction that one, doesn’t even exist, and two, literally says nothing about my alignment because it’s all over a dumb preference. Unless you think that me not wanting to go early is scummy, in which I will claim immediately and be pissed off about doing so. However I probably wouldn’t do it at your request anyway.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I’m not claiming first or second or third and y’all are gonna have to deal with it

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Literally in that quote I said “I just don’t want to [clIm second] and you interpreted that as literally the exact opposite of the words that were written in the post. Which also means absolutely nothing because it has no content in it which I’m also aware of.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

It’s only LAMIST if I’m trying to act how to blatantly act as townie would when I’m not. Just saying “I’m townie” means literally nothing and you should know that.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

It’s only LAMIST if I’m trying to act how to blatantly act as townie would when I’m not.

EBWOP “It’s only LAMIST if I’m trying to blatantly act like a townie when I’m not.”