Competitive community

[J4ke]

Dear Smashboards readers,

I am hoping to bring to light a few things that really bother me about competition and gaming as a whole. As I browse these boards looking for new information and opinions, I often find a general feeling of passive hate thrown about, mostly between people of differing skill levels or knowledge bases.

I sometimes find that anyone here who holds thier level of smash play to be competitive, or are up to pro calliber feel the need to segregate between skill levels. And by this I mean completely discount any and all validity of others' opinions by name calling. Particularly a popular term derived from a form of cleaning motion. I always believed that people who were very good at something typically should have a certain level of honor and integrity.

This seems to be non-existant here on the boards, where most highly competitive players would rather berrate others for thier "stupidity" or "lack of skill" on the competitive scene. I apologize for making potentially offensive observations, however, behaving like an elitist rather than expressing superior experience in the game with understanding and poise makes a bad name for you, the competitive community, and the smash community all together

If you put up pro competition, keep doin what your doin, because it is a lot of fun to be highly skilled and successful. What isnt fun is turning these discussion boards into a minefield of saying something wrong, only to be exploded upon by someone who feels it is thier duty to shoot them down.

Noobs will be noobs. Let people who dont understand the different spectrums of smash make irrational statements. Ignore them or let the mods take care of it. Or let other noobs talk about it. Everyone was a noob once.

If you hold your competitive smash skill in high regard, then have pride, not a constant pretentious attitude. It will make this community and the future of ALL smash a more prestigous sect of gaming.


Sincerely,
J4ke K.

P.S. I apologize again for the long post, and I do understand that this is the internets and any or all of this information may hold no truth whatsoever. For those of you that do find truth in this post, I thank you for reading it and expressing your own opinions on the subject.

 

[smidge]

wow i do agree with this valid agruement and if someone is good at sport they dont call less experienced people noobs and nubs . . .but generally on the internet people do tend not to have much respect for people who enjoy playing smash bros especially if they are less skilled, dont get me wrong, there are decent people on these forums, its just some players like to feel superior to other by flaming (it gives them an ego boost). . . but yeah the smash community needs more people like you

 

[Wii4Mii 99]

I agree. Although I don't think this has anything to do with Brawl...

We should all be best friends. (not really, but at least nicer to each other)

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99

 

[fluffy]

omg this thread is pointless.

its not epic and its not changing the world.

 

[Doggalina]

I don't have a problem with n00bs. However, I do have a problem with arrogant n00bs.

A while back, there were these two n00bs, Basement Dweller and zombie. They made a thread in the Marth boards saying that Ken wasn't so great and that he should go out of his way to play them to prove that he's good. They got flamed like crazy. There arguments sucked (well, he hasn't played everybody in the world, so how to do we know he's the best?).

 

[Makkun]

I don't have a problem with n00bs. However, I do have a problem with arrogant n00bs.

A while back, there were these two n00bs, Basement Dweller and zombie. They made a thread in the Marth boards saying that Ken wasn't so great and that he should go out of his way to play them to prove that he's good. They got flamed like crazy. There arguments sucked (well, he hasn't played everybody in the world, so how to do we know he's the best?).

Those guys did that? o_o I know them in real life, I met them in a tournament back in May, I live around them, and I don't like them at all. They were pretty arrogant, thought Advanced Techniques were cheap and stuff. Zombie got owned, Dweller got pretty far until he got to me. I ended up winning the tournament, but of all the matches I played, the only round I lost was one to Dweller. I went to shinespike him, and he presses the pause button for a second, obviously throwing me off and sending me to my death. Now, why this was overlooked by officials is beyond me, but his style was ridiculous anyway. XP He just camped... with Marth.

Btw, there was a tournament at the same place two days ago, and somebody got to the finals by picking banned stages and winning on them, no idea how this was overlooked since it happened at least 4 times.

Sorry for being off topic, the only thing relevant I can say is a basic "I agree, and people should stop doing this." XP

Edit: After losing that one round, I 3-stocked him with Peach. >>

 

[SmashChu]

The only thing I disagree with is this statement

Noobs will be noobs. Let people who dont understand the different spectrums of smash make irrational statements. Ignore them or let the mods take care of it. Or let other noobs talk about it. Everyone was a noob once.
.

I might be wrong, but it seems likee you are saying that those who aren't competative are noobs. Not noobs compaired to other competative players but noobs in general(as they don't know anything, and only say stupid stuff).

 

[fluffy]

Those guys did that? o_o I know them in real life, I met them in a tournament back in May, I live around them, and I don't like them at all. They were pretty arrogant, thought Advanced Techniques were cheap and stuff. Zombie got owned, Dweller got pretty far until he got to me. I ended up winning the tournament, but of all the matches I played, the only round I lost was one to Dweller. I went to shinespike him, and he presses the pause button for a second, obviously throwing me off and sending me to my death. Now, why this was overlooked by officials is beyond me, but his style was ridiculous anyway. XP He just camped... with Marth.

Btw, there was a tournament at the same place two days ago, and somebody got to the finals by picking banned stages and winning on them, no idea how this was overlooked since it happened at least 4 times.

Sorry for being off topic, the only thing relevant I can say is a basic "I agree, and people should stop doing this." XP

Edit: After losing that one round, I 3-stocked him with Peach. >>

why are you a smash noob while the others are smash childs?

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

omg this thread is pointless.

its not epic and its not changing the world.

Hey! Look who didn't bother reading the post before commenting in it's thread.....

What happened to Dweller? I haven't seen him around, though I'm just a Brawl forum frequenter, and he pissed me off because he always defended Marth and attacked Roy in every single post of his. And they weren't anything with weight to them, just "sucks" and "crappy" mostly.

But I find that this forum is actually better than most when it comes to name calling and the like, although people do de-evolve(can't think of a better word atm) when someone comments on their favorite character, stage, idea, etc, then insults start getting thrown around and the IQ of the thread goes down the drain. But usually there's some level of intellect in the non-heated topics, and those not are usually ignored.

But thanks for commenting on it though!

 

[fluffy]

Hey! Look who didn't bother reading the post before commenting in it's thread.....

what are you talking about? I read the other posts and commented on THIS thread.

 

[Flare233]

why are you a smash noob while the others are smash childs?

How much you post has nothing to do with your skill at Smash.

 

[fluffy]

How much you post has nothing to do with your skill at Smash.

i know that....obviously. O_O

his title under his name was smash noob while the others were smash childs. i thought they got rid of smash noob and replaced with smash child all together.

 

[Gypsy Lee]

Aren't like half of the Brawl boards noobs to begin with? A little while ago, kaid made a topic about the ability to move and shoot being the death of MCing and SHLing. Well, that thread died because it was spammed by noobs who were saying that you can't cancel lag on missles, and that you can't shoot while while DIing. They obviously had no idea what they were talking about, yet they continued to argue with kaid instead of letting others have an intelligent conversation over the subject. That's what pisses alot of people off. A noob is practically a stereotype on the internet now. Just a few idiots who don't know what they're talking about end up pissing the "veterans" off, who in turn, make life hell for anyone who's new to the game.

 

[Eaode]

I (and most other people) don't act elitist like that and put down noobs because they're inexperienced.

I (and most other people) will flame a noob if they display absolute arrogance, ignorance, and stupidity. This happens A LOT when casual smashers on this board try to suggest something like "All characters are good" or "Final Smashes shouldn't be allowed to be turned off" or "no item matches don't show true skill" or "Wavedashing is really cheap and the only reason those 'pros' win is by exploiting it!!!!!1"


That's when you need to put them in their place, violently.

 

[Darkfur]

I agree with the topic creator AND Eaode.

I am a casual player, and I respect people who can play. But there ARE several elitists here...

Not everyone is though, and it's the ones that don't act elitists that deserve respect.

And personally... Some of the elitists are JUST as bad as the noobs. Nothing makes me roll my eyes more than. "OMG if Brawl no have wavedashing I'm SO not playing it ever. D:"

 

[_Phloat_]

I agree with the topic creator AND Eaode.

I am a casual player, and I respect people who can play. But there ARE several elitists here...

Not everyone is though, and it's the ones that don't act elitists that deserve respect.

And personally... Some of the elitists are JUST as bad as the noobs. Nothing makes me roll my eyes more than. "OMG if Brawl no have wavedashing I'm SO not playing it ever. D:"

When will people get the **** off his case? He never said that, he will not get it, and that is his perrogative. You are not going to convince him, and he is not gonna change, you can't make someone enjoy a game, he enjoys wavedashing and feels he needs it, so he won't play withou it.. That makes you roll your eyes..

No offence man, I felt the same way as you, but I read his argument and....

It makes sense.

Anyways, to you TC, scrubs are the ones that force their opinions on people and think they lose because of ATs.. Well, you are right in the way saying that we shouldn't flame them, we should just ignore them, then they will go away

Keep smashin

 

[teh_nuke]

i know that....obviously. O_O

his title under his name was smash noob while the others were smash childs. i thought they got rid of smash noob and replaced with smash child all together.

no it still goes n00b then child

 

[_Phloat_]

Good lord this is a fast board, I hit submit and you are there right under me without needing to hit refresh or anything o_o

That means we had a same time post!

Just thought I point that out, and I had something more to add..


BE NICE TO THE NOOBS, they will grow and learn, and without new people coming into the community the game will slowly die! So don't hope to ignore them and they go away, if they are willing to learn what the game is truly about, then you should try and educate them, for the good of the game.. But if they are unwilling to learn and they just call you a cheater then ignore them!

 

[Darkfur]

For the record though Phloat, if you are talking about who I think you are (I think his name is Dylan?), I wasn't.

I read that topic and know what he meant. I was talking about the people who absolutely refuse period. It makes me roll my eyes.

 

[Eaode]

Lol when I read your post I instantly though of Dylan, but I decided to not say anything :-P

 

[_Phloat_]

For the record though Phloat, if you are talking about who I think you are (I think his name is Dylan?), I wasn't.

I read that topic and know what he meant. I was talking about the people who absolutely refuse period. It makes me roll my eyes.

Really, your the first not to jump to him in the first post of these topics :-)

Anyways, no hard feelings, just make sure you argue for the WDers when it comes down to it

 

[Darkfur]

Oh, I do. I'm trying my best to learn to do it actually. I can usually pull it off with Marth, but not with my favorite character. (Fox) And even with Marth I cant do it consistently yet or enough to use against other players.

Although a few times I've been able to slide off the ledge and edgeguard. Really ticked my friend off cause he'd never seen my do that before. *laugh*

I just think Brawl will be a great game with or without it.

 

[_Phloat_]

Really, I mean look at the best players, they don't wavedash THAT much, and if their combos could be shorter, that puts more focus on getting hits, which means mindgames are needing to be stronger, and they they get even farther ahead..

All dylan's talk makes me want to see the videos he has made when he uploads them!

 

[Inkslinger]

I agree to some extent with the topic creator but sometimes i guess the better players seem arrogant when they correct noobs that don't have experience/knowledge of ssb. It's necessary to have some sort of knowledgeable player correcting/regulating arrogant or just unacknowledged noobs. It is only intolerable if the "pros" make a personal attack. Overall pointless thread.....why? basic knowledge, of course pros shouldn't be arrogant there's not much potential in the discussion.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Noobs will be noobs. Let people who dont understand the different spectrums of smash make irrational statements. Ignore them or let the mods take care of it. Or let other noobs talk about it. Everyone was a noob once.

Well someone has to tell them what's right and what's wrong. Otherwise they'd be noobs forever. Someone's gotta step in and tell them "Well actually, you can cancel the lag of your aerials". Why let them wallow in their own ignorance?

I don't understand why you're only calling out the skilled players. Is it jealousy or something? The skilled or "competitive" players don't really behave the way you're saying they do. There are plenty of ***holes on Smashboards, their skill level is irrelevant. Noobs, mediocre players, competitive players, and even pros sometimes fling elitist insults and call each other names.

 

[J4ke]

I agree with you 56k, and I dont deny there being many helpful, knowledgeable, skillful players in this community. We need these kinds of people to help make brawl a fun thing to be a part of, competitive or not.

Its the people that are constantly at the forefront of the battle between whats right, whats wrong, and whats just an opinion. Id simply like to see people who are far better than even I at the game acting with more poise than with reckless, petty anger and frustration.

To clarify, alot of this comes with the notion of using advanced techniqes or not, as many of you know. I think that professional playstyle speaks for itself, and it of course takes a lot of skill. My original post was meant to show that one should hold this in high regard, have fun playing as such, teach others the skills, but still recognize the possibilities of other playstyles simply as 'ways other people like to play'.

I think my take on all this is wholly rational, yet Id simply like to adress the sometimes irrational, extremist... what have you that taint the smash name.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I like to help new players,but I don't like to help n00bs.

A new is a player that isn't arrogant or ignorent and willing to learn.These people are ok in my book.

A noob is a know-it-all,arrogant,ignorant,and immature player that thinks that he is the best because he can beat lv9 CPU's and his friends.

I only care for those who are willing to learn,not be ignorant.

 

[Cenedar]

Thank you Eternal Phoenix Fire, that was well said.

We all have seen the word nOOb tossed around a little too much at certain times, no one can deny that. As far as I see it, nOObs and scrubs seem to be the same beast. Players who ignorantly believe they are superior to just about everyone and can't take criticism (even constructive criticism) for ****.

As for the whole elitist attitude... I don't see it as much. Given, every now and again I'll feel sorry for some poor bloke that got thrashed on these boards, but I believe the majority of "competitive" players on these forums are more than willing to inform and teach us casual players in the ways of "advanced smash" should the interest be there.

Besides, if you really think it's bad here (which in reality it's not quite so), I have two words for you.

N SIDERS

go there, you will laugh or cringe... maybe even both!

 

[Rash]

I actually don't get why the term "n00b" or "newbie" even means anything more than someone who is new to the game and doesn't know their general way around it.

Honestly, the reason "n00" (as in "new") is even in the word is to express the fact that the person is "new" to something. Even if the person is an arrogant, immature player, as long as they know they're way around the basic mechanics of the game and play it on an average (that is, not tournament-competitive) level, they shouldn't be called "n00bs."

That's what I don't like about elitists and other competitive players. They use the word "n00b" too much to describe something that really isn't "n00bish" in every way. Honestly, I think people should find a new word for the players who play the game arrogantly and immaturely. Scrub was a good word to start using for people who try to enforce their own rules; if that word could come to be I don't see why others couldn't be made up as well for other kinds of players.

 

[Blackadder]

I don't have a problem with n00bs. However, I do have a problem with arrogant n00bs.

A while back, there were these two n00bs, Basement Dweller and zombie. They made a thread in the Marth boards saying that Ken wasn't so great and that he should go out of his way to play them to prove that he's good. They got flamed like crazy. There arguments sucked (well, he hasn't played everybody in the world, so how to do we know he's the best?).

I'd go with him.
It's cool to be learning anbout the game and accepting you're a n00b, but the arrogent 13 year olds? The drive me of the wall.

Scenrio 1:
*n00b Makes topic about how great Falco is*
"Some random guy: We already have a million of these buddy"
arrogent: n00b: "**** you, **** your mudder, **** yo daddeh. I rock at tis GME!!! DIE PRICK!!!"

Scenario 2:
*n00b makes topic on how great Falco is*
Some random guy: "hey we already have one on this"
n00b: Oh, okay, sorry, I didn't know.

There's basicly two kinds of n00bs, and trust me, the first one is just as common as the second one. If you search, you can also find a lot of helpfull "competitive players/non-n00bs/whatever" helping out the new guys.

But I admit, there is a lot of hate going around on the boards.
Just not enough to make it an awful site.

But thats just my thoughts.

 

[BigRick]

Well ''newb'' is supposed to be sum1 who is new to a game, and has a positive attutude (knows that he isn't good, willing to learn new stuff)

And ''n00b'' is sum1 who is new to a game, or doesn't know much stuff about a game, and yet is very arrogant and thinks that he's the greatest player around.

So basically, n00b is an insult while newb isn't

 

[_Phloat_]

I agree with you 56k, and I dont deny there being many helpful, knowledgeable, skillful players in this community. We need these kinds of people to help make brawl a fun thing to be a part of, competitive or not.

Its the people that are constantly at the forefront of the battle between whats right, whats wrong, and whats just an opinion. Id simply like to see people who are far better than even I at the game acting with more poise than with reckless, petty anger and frustration.

To clarify, alot of this comes with the notion of using advanced techniqes or not, as many of you know. I think that professional playstyle speaks for itself, and it of course takes a lot of skill. My original post was meant to show that one should hold this in high regard, have fun playing as such, teach others the skills, but still recognize the possibilities of other playstyles simply as 'ways other people like to play'.

I think my take on all this is wholly rational, yet Id simply like to adress the sometimes irrational, extremist... what have you that taint the smash name.

Pros don't get mad when they see someone who says they play differently

But if you come to smashboards and you are saying that you have a gannondorf at FD that uses only down B, but you have amazing "aim" and you can beat forward, he has the right to get a little steamed, he works really hard (all the pros do) for his top spot, and no one should be so arrogant towards them!

Also, I say he out of habit, no offence girls with smashing skills

 

[Blackadder]

Pros don't get mad when they see someone who says they play differently

But if you come to smashboards and you are saying that you have a gannondorf at FD that uses only down B, but you have amazing "aim" and you can beat forward, he has the right to get a little steamed, he works really hard (all the pros do) for his top spot, and no one should be so arrogant towards them!

Also, I say he out of habit, no offence girls with smashing skills

Hmph!
I'm insulted. XD
(actually, I'm a guy, but whatever, lol)

But he's right there, with the answer, I'd agree to that one as well.
And as someone else said a bit up, with the "n00b" VS "Newb" I'm not sure if I've heard of such diffrences in the names, at least not in common usage.

 

[Rash]

Well ''newb'' is supposed to be sum1 who is new to a game, and has a positive attutude (knows that he isn't good, willing to learn new stuff)

And ''n00b'' is sum1 who is new to a game, or doesn't know much stuff about a game, and yet is very arrogant and thinks that he's the greatest player around.

So basically, n00b is an insult while newb isn't

Well, that's better, but it's not perfect. The two words are like homonyms, and therefore would probably be confused. Not everyone is going to know the difference between "newb" and "n00b", and therefore you never know when you may accidentally insult them by calling them a "newb."

There should definitely be different words for the different players. That's just my opinion though. I'll probably just end up making my own term.

 

[MookieRah]

wow i do agree with this valid agruement and if someone is good at sport they dont call less experienced people noobs and nubs . .

They don't, but if they overheard some guy claiming to be great spread false information I'm sure they *would* say something.

What this thread really hasn't gone into is that there are many many kinds of noobs. I have my own little system of classifying them, that nobody goes by, but i'm gonna put it up here cause it's easy to understand and is based off of years of dealing with them, so here goes.

Newb (newbie) - Someone who possesses intelligence and a want to learn. Usually very humble with their posting, and completely understands their position. These guys are great, and I wish all newcomers were like that.

Noob - Less mature than the newb. Somewhat arrogant, even if they sometimes pretend to act humble. Most noobs are younger players, anywhere from 12-15. Can be annoying and they tend to mass together and make any post considerably worse. They; however, can be reasoned with most of the time. They also tend to be EASILY swayed by anyone with clout, cause they love to be fanboys.

Nub - People who are so arrogant and immature that there is no way to communicate with them. They believe the site is a farce and they could squash the pros without advanced techniques. Very very few of these guys actually stick around for more than a few weeks, and they are not, nor should be, welcome to the community. Unless of course they are in your area and can take advantage of their pride with a hefty money match.

I never get onto newbs, and if I did unintentionally I would apoligize. Noobs are annoying, but they typically can grow out of it, but I still give them a hard time so they can learn their place. Nubs should just be blasted by all means necessary. Some of the funniest threads are of Nubs talking smack. It's great XD.

[edit]
I just saw BigRick's post. Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks along these lines.

 

[_Phloat_]

Just to say, I think that party games and stuff are really, really boring..

Even before competitive smash Even when I was part of the 98% people have made up I would play without items on FD.. It just seemed fair-er that way to me. I always hated games where luck is the deciding factor.. I mean, mario party is nothing but a 50$ well animate dice game!.. I was playing around one day, I lost every single minigame (except ones where random rules. like pick a rope to win a a star)

That got boring..

I also had friends over one night (I was like 7, bear with me) and one brought yatze... We were bored in MINUTES, while the parents could not understand why!

So, my point is that even though 2%, Whever that came from may play competitivly, that doesn't mean that only 2% of people who play games enjoy fair matches. I may have never even heard of l-canceling, but I still may hate capsules blowing up in my face!

Also,the 2%, well, not everyone here has an account!

 

[CHUK]

This d00d is a total n00b, put this in a different topic. Learn to L/R cancel before I have to READ your postz lolz. Jay kay






(no Jay Kay)

Yeah Jay kay

?

 

[_Phloat_]

They don't, but if they overheard some guy claiming to be great spread false information I'm sure they *would* say something.

What this thread really hasn't gone into is that there are many many kinds of noobs. I have my own little system of classifying them, that nobody goes by, but i'm gonna put it up here cause it's easy to understand and is based off of years of dealing with them, so here goes.

Newb (newbie) - Someone who possesses intelligence and a want to learn. Usually very humble with their posting, and completely understands their position. These guys are great, and I wish all newcomers were like that.

Noob - Less mature than the newb. Somewhat arrogant, even if they sometimes pretend to act humble. Most noobs are younger players, anywhere from 12-15. Can be annoying and they tend to mass together and make any post considerably worse. They; however, can be reasoned with most of the time. They also tend to be EASILY swayed by anyone with clout, cause they love to be fanboys.

Nub - People who are so arrogant and immature that there is no way to communicate with them. They believe the site is a farce and they could squash the pros without advanced techniques. Very very few of these guys actually stick around for more than a few weeks, and they are not, nor should be, welcome to the community. Unless of course they are in your area and can take advantage of their pride with a hefty money match.

I never get onto newbs, and if I did unintentionally I would apoligize. Noobs are annoying, but they typically can grow out of it, but I still give them a hard time so they can learn their place. Nubs should just be blasted by all means necessary. Some of the funniest threads are of Nubs talking smack. It's great XD.

[edit]
I just saw BigRick's post. Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks along these lines.

Yay, a big post, I love these guys, lotsa thought!

Anyways, be sure to add that not everyone in the age range you mentioned is like that, I am 13 and I love competitive smash :0...

Although I am fairly middle of the road in smash, I have been really good in some games, and you are right, newbs are the greatest! They keep the community alive and they really make teaching fun, and aren't a nuisiance.

While the others just make me mad, I mean, the pros work so long to be good, and they think well about the game, and people think that because they can beat their friends and their parents without any difficulty, fkin ken would fight the same way!

Ugh, arrogance kills me...

Good post

 

[THEmSHAKE]

I see where you're coming from with this. People will always have opinions. The difference is how they express themselves. This will sound old and generic, but if we treated each other how we wanted to be treated there wouldn't be any new people ( I dont like using the word n00b) running their mouths and no pros putting down others just for fun.

 

[MookieRah]

@_Phloat_: I said most, not all :-P. I know there are mature young players out there, but they are in the vast minority.

@ThemShake: I was like that once, but then I spent 3 years on the boards and dealt with a ton of idiots. In the end, I bash people who deserve it.