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Competitive Brawl Discussion (General)

TKD

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
1,587
Location
Tijuana, México
Just so we have an actual thread about competition, tournaments, and gameplay; instead of just lists filled with opinions that don't help you win/run/play/discuss tournaments.

I'll start with a handful of my biggest current opinions; you can comment on those or start your own topic. Just roll with it, and we'll get a feel what SWF members think about tournament and competitive play in general.

1. I think Pikachu's top tier along with MK/IC because of his player-friendly mobility and execution (like MK, doesn't need much warm-up/unrusting for decent results), plus having one of the best defenses in the game (and by defense I mean the ability to return to neutral or turn the tables vs opposing momentum; the other really fantastic ones being MK's and Wario's). He's also even with MK imo; it's just that it's tricky to learn how to play around MK's range with him (emphasis on "learn", because once learned and accustomed to, it should be second-nature).
2. I think IC are overrated and the least consistent character in Smash Bros. since Melee Captain Falcon (or maybe a truly greatly skilled player has yet to emerge with them; who knows...but imo there are already at least 3 great ICs). They may truly be the 2nd best character, but the next ones aren't as worse than them as people think, just like MK isn't as overpowered as people think (all of this again only imo).
3. Not that I absolutely love to brag, but as a fun fact, I'm the first one that suggested instating the ledge grab limit in America back when I was in the BBR (long time ago), and most people thought I was insane for the idea. I was also the one who came up with banning double MK in doubles (as an alternative to banning him altogether). And thank god those became standard rules! (I'm kinda proud of them and think they're great). I'm also the one who made the Apex stage list and suggested it to Alex S. (which he agreed to) and for whatever reasons feel kinda embarrassed for having left Frigate and Halberd in there (I think my biggest concern at the moment was getting rid of Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise, which were just absolutely RIDICULOUS).
4. Speaking of rules, Modified DSR (can't counterpick the last stage you won on) and one stage ban per player is the way to go imo as far as stage banning goes. In order to focus on ACTUAL GAME PLAY SKILLS, and not memorizing or planning stage bans so much, I also recommend that there's only 1 banned stage at a time and it resets each round (otherwise there would be a whopping total of 3 banned stages per set including each player's ban and the DSR, plus players would be burdened to remember which stages them and their opponents have banned throughout the set). Regular DSR just can't work because there aren't enough neutral(-ish) stages per match-up.
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,444
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
1. Jigglypuff is amazing for the same reason (ability to return to neutral vs. opposing momentum), she's just a lot more difficult to use than MK/Wario/ICs.
2. Melee Captain Falcon is inconsistent? o_O Try Melee Fox, or Ice Climbers.
3. Subjectivity. The game without a ledge-grab limit and without the stages you mentioned isn't more competitive, it's just different.
 

Bobwithlobsters

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
421
Location
Oakdale MN
As grim said the ideas of the smaller stage list, ledge grab limit, and less bans is not necessarily more competative just different.

Also your talk of mk being over rated after mention all your efforts to nerf and muzzle him seems a little funny. I agree yeah pika can maybe go even with him if you constrain him to flat and simple stages and limit his ledge grabs. Yeah overrated if you heavily limit him. (i still don't actually agree he is overrated even then...)

Similarly I actually do agree I've climbers are overrated unless you take into account the limiting ledge grab limits and restricted stage list. These two changes to the rules heavily favor ice climbers. Without these changes their weakness shine much brighter.
 

etecoon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
5,731
People still arguing in 2013 that infinite ledge camping should be allowed

because brawl hype just wasn't dying fast enough as it was
 

Bobwithlobsters

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
421
Location
Oakdale MN
Who argued that? I feel there are only a few game play mechanics that are out right degenerate in brawl. and I definitely feel that mk ledge camping is one of those. Any other charecter has yet to show that the ledge is any kind of problem. I know there was the one dk olimar match but to say that is degenerate is a bit premature. The options dk has during that is rather limited especially compared to mk.
 

TKD

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
1,587
Location
Tijuana, México
ledge mechanics in ssbb are actually quite messed up imo. it's not like you have to be melee m2k to abuse them x) and they polarize character match-ups and versus gameplay too. so i can't really say much against the current standard rulesets that prevent abusing that stuff.
 

TheGrunyan

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
59
Location
Lawrence, Kansas
As a Pikachu main, I'm gonna sound a bit biased here, but I think you're right about him being even with Meta Knight and the Ice Climbers. Even when he's countered, if you learn the match-up, you can win.
 

TSM ZeRo

Banned via Administration
Joined
Mar 25, 2011
Messages
1,295
Location
Los Angeles, CA
1.- "Decent" results with Pikachu/MK with no un-rusting. > Only possible if you're ESAM or M2K, really. To play those chars properly you need a tooooon of tech skill. Also, Pikachu is VERY lame to play against. Playing against ESAM is so nerve breaking D:

2.- I don't now man, after playing 9B/Nakat/Vinnie for a while, IC's are just sooooooooo (And much more o's) in my opinion. I'm undefeated in tournament record vs IC's and I still think that. Their risk/reward ratio is just.... preposterous.

3.- People only started complaining about Halberd when I started to counterpick it. Before me no MK would counterpick it (Not a single top player. Only Delfino. And if it was banned, Halberd wouldn't be picked). Now that's it's gone in the EC, I feel guilty ;_;.

Also, I teached M2K 'how 2 Halberd' haha. HE DIDN'T DO IT BY HIMSELF. (Yes I care very much about this detail).
 
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