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Common Marth mistakes and how to improve

LoyalSoldier

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
192
Location
Coeur d' Alene, ID
Marth has always been one of my favorite characters since the Melee days. Even though I was a heavy fox main I always loved using Marth as an alternative. In Brawl Marth is still easily one of the top dogs in the hands of a good player. His move set is very diverse and he seems to have a perfect move for every situation. He is also one of the few who can pull of rather good combos in brawl. The problem becomes that people fall in love with certain moves or combos that Marth has and as such it weakens their Marth from his true potential.

I decided to write up a small list of mistakes I see that are common to Marth. A few of these apply to characters in general.
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1. Use a combo/move because it is good for the situation not because it is good.

This is most likely one of the worst mistakes I keep seeing. People fall in love with one combo because it is good, but then they go over the deep end and start spamming it relentlessly. This is a horrible mistake because a good combo may not be good for some situations. For instance the short hop combo (Two Fairs finished by a Fsmash or similar combos) may not be the best when you are too close to your enemy since you need to hit with the tip to make it the most effective. There might be a time, such as when the target is at lower %, where it is a good idea to use dancing blades to rack up the damage rather than going for the big smash move.

Learn which moves work in which situations. The 3 Ds (not to be confused with DeDeDe) Be wary of distance, damage, and delay. Notice how far away the foe is, how much damage he has, and how long you are going to be vulnerable or if your foe is going to be able to escape.
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2. Don't over use smash moves!

This is one that applies to just about every character, but Marths are notorious for doing this. A fan favorite smash move is the Fsmash. Marth's Fsmash is a very good move, but keep it mind it still leaves you open when you use it. Marths tend to spam this so much that they become a punching bag to good players. Smash moves should only be used when you spot an opening.

Marth is such a good character that you can win without using a single smash move. I demonstrated this to a friend who is a big Marth fan. Just about every move of his can be used in some way to KO the opponent. His Dair is one of my favorites if you can hit the target with the tip of the blade.

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3.Don't be afraid to pull up from a combo if it isn't working.

One of the other problems I see all the time is a Marth will start a combo(Especially Dancing blades), but the enemy puts up his shield thus making the combo fail. Yet the Marth will refuse to do anything else except finish the combo thus leaving himself open to shield grabbing or other counter attacks. Remember if you see a combo isn't going to work cut your losses and quit before you are too far in.
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4. Mix things up. Don't become predictable.

This is a combination of the previous 3 errors. One problem players in general have is they tend to develop a pattern. This is one of the cardinal sins of competition. If I know exactly what you are going to do before you do it I am going to punish you each and every time you do it. Throw the proverbial wrench in the machine once in a while. Occasionally branch off into something else. Do you like to run in and be aggressive? Occasionally
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I may add more to the list if I see more common mistakes. Remember Marth is a great character, don't limit yourself.
 

Kilut

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
70
Location
Illinois
Dancing blade can be good to stay in if they shield, as the fourth hit shield pokes most of the time when you do the down one with lots of hits.
 

AcidJazz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
112
Location
Austin TX
You can be hit or grabbed between dancing blade attacks if they're blocked. I suggest stopping and doing something else to save your ***. If you're too close, a blocked dance blade is going to mean getting hit.


I'd say a common mistake that I'm still working on getting over, is not using his killing moves enough. I can rack up the damage pretty well, but I found myself killing people at stupid high percentages. I think some people just go in to do damage and not to win. Sounds stupid, but people lose track sometimes. Always keep in mind what your opponent's percentage is at and try and set the person up for kills at that percentage. I think if you have a tendency to not pay attention to this and you start paying attention to when can I kill my opponent asap, you'll start to find a lot more situations where you can kill at a lot lower.


Killing at lower % = win :)


Don't forget to take into account your percentage too. Don't do some risky ledge guarding stuff (i advise it 100% in practice not necessarily in a tournament tho) if you're at 0 and he/she's at 130... Bad risk/reward ratio
 

LoyalSoldier

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
192
Location
Coeur d' Alene, ID
Occasionally what?
Hehe sorry I was in a hurry. I was going to see the Narnia movie. ;)

Occasionally back out unexpectedly. That keeps your foe guessing if you are coming at them or going to fake it. That is why good players back in the melee days loved dash dancing because they kept you on your feet with it.

Kilut said:
Dancing blade can be good to stay in if they shield, as the fourth hit shield pokes most of the time when you do the down one with lots of hits.
That is an "IF" that many good players don't do. It is better to rely on your own skill than your opponents mistakes. They can grab or hit you mid strike as well. I have seen times where the someone worked their way out of the final attack of the down variation of dancing blades.

Remember the shield gives your foes options and that is never a good thing.
 

feardragon64

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
2,154
Location
San Francisco
I agree with the IDEAS of this thread but....

combos? *blink blink*

double fair isn't so much a combo anymore as it is a general tactic. It's good to note not to overuse a TACTIC in brawl or become predictable by reusing the same tactic, but that isn't to mixed up with combos ><

If you can find a combo that can actually be spammed by marth in brawl, abuse the hell out of it until they find a way to get out of it, then change it up and only use the combo when it's opportune =]
 

LoyalSoldier

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
192
Location
Coeur d' Alene, ID
I agree with the IDEAS of this thread but....

combos? *blink blink*

double fair isn't so much a combo anymore as it is a general tactic. It's good to note not to overuse a TACTIC in brawl or become predictable by reusing the same tactic, but that isn't to mixed up with combos ><

If you can find a combo that can actually be spammed by marth in brawl, abuse the hell out of it until they find a way to get out of it, then change it up and only use the combo when it's opportune =]
The word combo kind of losing some of its meaning in Brawl since Melee combos were much closer to true combos. Tactic is a better way to look at it.
 

BacklashMarth

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
1,784
Location
Directly above you tipping a dair.
I think people should consider finishing the dancing blade ESPECIALLY when it is blocked. When you do the combo with the pokes at the end i damages their shield. This makes it vulnerable to a quick shieldbreaker where they will be the ones vulnerable. If you stop a blocked combo, occasionally the person will grab you anyway unless you magically time an up+b from a cancelled dancing blade. Marth's also need to stop being afraid of getting hit. If you are, fighting Pit and Falco becomes impossible since you play way to defensively. Its ok to take a punishment hit from a shielded attack as long as you get some benefit from it.
 

LoyalSoldier

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
192
Location
Coeur d' Alene, ID
I think people should consider finishing the dancing blade ESPECIALLY when it is blocked. When you do the combo with the pokes at the end i damages their shield. This makes it vulnerable to a quick shieldbreaker where they will be the ones vulnerable. If you stop a blocked combo, occasionally the person will grab you anyway unless you magically time an up+b from a cancelled dancing blade. Marth's also need to stop being afraid of getting hit. If you are, fighting Pit and Falco becomes impossible since you play way to defensively. Its ok to take a punishment hit from a shielded attack as long as you get some benefit from it.
If you keep getting thrown over and over and over again it doesn't do you much good especially against foes with chain grabs. Also keep in mind the person can also roll out of it as well. So if you are busy doing the final step of the down variation on thin air that means your foe has all the time in the world to set up a smash attack on your backside. The final steps of Dancing Blade leaves you terribly open so that is why you need to make sure your foe it getting hit by it.

Like I said before, the shield gives your foe options and that is never a good thing. If you sit there and mindless spam the move on a good player he is going to make you pay.
 

KaosKun

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
47
Location
Leominster, MA / Lowell, MA
The only time someone has punished my dancing blade has when a power shield occurs =/. other times if they sit there and you do it fast enough, opponents can't move. They will simply be hit by the next swing. Plus most of the time, people tend to let the final strike hit so the shield does not break. However i do agree with most of what you said. Mix things up a bit and it does not hurt to grab either, especially against snake .

(Combos do exist for some characters...just not marth really...he is more of a hit and run kind of style...if you can get multiple hits in then be my guest but i don't generally go for them)
 
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