Combos are stupid??

[SMAAAASH!]

I just let them have their "skillful moment" before I kill them at 0% with Ness' spike.

 

[Jman115]

That is certainly true for some other fighting games, but free form combos are what make Melee unique, so while are some instances where you simply memorize something and then execute (chain grabs come to mind) I would say most of it is hitting, opponent DIing, and proceeding to followup with another attack, which requires a bit more mind games, and give the one being comboed to escape the combo with proper DI, or other factors.


I can see what you're saying with Brawl and attempting to get in stabs with constant mind games, but that is also what makes it frustrating. You spend several fake outs and spaced attacks to get in, but all for what? One tilt? And then you start it all up again to land another tilt? The same reason it is boring to watch, to me, seems the same reason it is boring to play.

Well I think you exaggerated a bit.
When you get inside finally yes sometimes it is just a tilt. But there are combos that come out of things as well. And sometimes while you may just get a tilt when you get inside you actually end up getting inside several times in a very short amount of time. You are always thinking about how to fake out your opponent and what to do next so while its not as fast paced on screen, there is usually a lot going on in your mind.

Not everyone is going to enjoy brawl though. I liked melee but I actually prefer brawl. I also tend to be a pretty aggressive player because I don't like sitting around. So I guess Brawl can be more or less exciting depending on how you play the game. Me and my friends like to be in your face a lot.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I've thought a lot about this question and largely agree with the direction Brawl went. Unless there are counters built into combos such as in brawl, they don't really measure skill. If ftilt leads into a combo, it doesn't measure the opponent's skill during the combo, only their ability to avoid ftilt.

In a game like brawl where most combos are situational, the game is measuring skill at nearly all times. After each hit, you have the opportunity to evade the next one in some way (in most cases). That's skill from both parties, not just the one who lands ftilt first. After ftilt, in game with combos, skill doesn't matter anymore for the guy being hit. He just has to wait his turn.

 

[Nixernator]

IMO the danger factor that combos give to the players is what makes the game more competitive. In Brawl you sit there and you attack but your not that worried because if it doesn't work you can't get punished for more than 30%( on average), also its easier to camp in your shield and wait for one attack because one attack is all you can get. Play against Ice Climbers, that constant fear of CG will make you play so much more alert and on the ball.
Combos keep you alert and tense at all times. I play 64, and I know from experience that I'm always worried about getting hit, but at the same time I know that landing a hit can and often will lead to a combo, it allows the game to be much tenser and competitive. Also Combos make the threat of comeback a constant thought, being able to bring the game back to even with one smart combo makes the opponent play smarter and the game more entertaining.
And as a final thought, combos let the creative people (I mean really creative people) come up with new uses for all kinds of moves and often to freelance and make new things up during a game.

 

[SpongeBathBill]

I've thought a lot about this question and largely agree with the direction Brawl went. Unless there are counters built into combos such as in brawl, they don't really measure skill. If ftilt leads into a combo, it doesn't measure the opponent's skill during the combo, only their ability to avoid ftilt.

Serious question: Is it honestly important to measure the skill of the player being combo'd during a combo? We've already measured their ability to avoid ftilt, which I would argue is a skill-based little game, and once the combo starts we're measuring the ability of the comboer to correctly perform the combo. Even then we're still measuring the skill of the player being combo'd because of DI, which is not only a knowledge-based skill but also potentially a mental game (what with tech-chasing and stuff.)

 

[link6616]

One last question: Quoting Ampharos' last paragraph, would you say melee is very well designed? (I never got to play melee seriously)
In other words, is the sure combo/situational combo balance particularly good?

I would not say melee was well designed in the sense that i don't think it's good as the game the deisgners envisioned (they didn't see wavedashing, i doubt they saw many combos, shfflcing etc) Had melee been designed as what it became, i'd say it was pretty well designed...

Although i'd map wave dashing to a button, and make short hop timing much easier if it were me.