Collecting Smash 64 Technical Data

[Supreme Dirt]

Ok so this is pretty simple but pretty complex. I'm looking for any and all technical data on Smash 64. This includes hitstun frames, damage, weights, any little bits of specific game-related data.

It can't be non-specific. What I mean is there's a weight table floating around... however it's relative to Mario. I can't code using that. I'm working on a modification of Brawl to reinstate 64 mechanics, and my first goal is to get the basic mechanics of the game working.

Any and all bits work, but the more specific the better. Running and jumping jumps lower than normally jumping, and that's lower than tap jumping. But by how much? How many frames are you in the air? How many frames until you land?

It's all these little things I'm looking for. How much hitlag do moves have? How much shield damage? Etc.

So I call out to you, the Smash 64 community, help me collect the information I need to not just make a mod, but to collect a lot of oft-neglected data.

Control Stick Sensitivity and Other Constants

Spoiler

Memory Address|OverlayCommon Offset| IC#|Brawl|64|Label
80B88270|514E10|3117|0.18|0.07|Walk Sensitivity
80B88280|514E20|3121|-0.25|-0.16|Turn Sensitivity
80B88270|514E10|3117|0.18|0.07|Walk Sensitivity
80B88280|514E20|3121|-0.25|-0.16|Turn Sensitivity
80B88284|514E24|3122|0.8|0.62|Dash, Pivot, & F-Smash Sensitivity
80B88294|514E34|3126|0.625|???|Run Sensitivity (having trouble testing)
80B882A4|514E44|3130|-0.375|2.0|Turn Grab Sensitivity
80B882B0|514E50|3133|-0.66|-0.44|Crouch,TetherDrop Sensitivity
80B882C4|514E64|3138|0.6625|0.63|Tap Jump Sensitivity
80B882C8|514E68|3139|0.125|0.08|JumpF/JumpB Sensitivity
80B882CC|514E6C|3140|0.3|0.42|Shorthop with Tap Jump Sensitivity
80B882D0|514E70|3141|0.5625|???|Dash/Run Tap Jump Sensitivity (well definitely less than 0.62...)
80B882F8|514E98|3151|0.25|0.16|Ftilt Threshold
80B882FC|514E9C|3152|0.279253||Ftilt Up Threshold (requires math and it's 3 am)
80B88300|514EA0|3153|-0.279253||Ftilt Down Threshold (requires math and it's 3 am)
80B88304|514EA4|3154|0.25|0.16|Utilt Threshold
80B88308|514EA8|3155|-0.25|0.16|Dtilt Threshold
80B8830C|514EAC|3156|0.279253||Fsmash Up Threshold (requires math and it's 3 am)
80B88310|514EB0|3157|-0.279253||Fsmash Down Threshold (requires math and it's 3 am)
80B88314|514EB4|3158|0.6625|0.42|Upsmash Sensitivity
80B88318|514EB8|3159|4||Up smash input window
80B8831C|514EBC|3160|-0.6625|0.42|Dsmash Sensitivity
80B88320|514EC0|3161|4||Down smash input window
80B8832C|514ECC|3164|0.25||Fair/Bair Sensitivity
80B88330|514ED0|3165|0.25|0.16|Uair/Dair Sensitivity
80B88338|514ED8|3167|-0.6625|0.16|Fastfall Sensitivity
80B88350|514EF0|3173|0.7||Input Distance Threshold for Smash DI
80B88354|514EF4|3174|6||Smash DI Distance
80B88358|514EF8|3175|3||Automatic Smash DI Distance
80B88368|514F08|3179|220||Lay auto-stand timer
80B88384|514F24|3186|0.55||Up+B/Down+B Sensitivity
80B88388|514F28|3187|-0.6875||Platform Drop Sensitivity
80B8838C|514F2C|3188|-0.5||Platform Drop Momentum
80B883B4|514F54|3198|0.2||Tech Roll Sensitivity
80B883BC|514F5C|3200|400||Base Disabled Time on Shield Break
80B883C0|514F60|3201|90||Minimum Disabled Time on Shield Break (does not work due to coding error)
80B883C4|514F64|3202|1||Reduction per Frame on Shield Break
80B883C8|514F68|3203|3||Reduction per Input on Shield Break
80B883CC|514F6C|3204|0.5||Directional Input Threshold on Shield Break
80B88440|514FE0|3233|50||Max Shield Strength
80B88444|514FE4|3234|0.15||Minimum shield size scaling
80B88450|514FF0|3237|0.28||Shield Degeneration
80B88454|514FF4|3238|0.07||Shield Regeneration
80B88458|514FF8|3239|30||Shield Reset (when broken, shield strength resets to this value)
80B88478|515018|3247|1||Shield Size Factor
80B8847C|51501C|3248|0.3||Shield Resistance Ratio (shields take this% less damage)
80B88480|515020|3249|0.7||Shield pushback
80B88484|515024|3250|0.5||Shield tilting
80B886DC|51527C|3400|100||DK Cargo Hold: Base Time
80B886E0|515280|3401|5||DK Cargo Hold: Time Increase per Damage
80B886E4|515284|3402|10||DK Cargo Hold: Time Reduction from an Input

OH DEAR

As I was testing for these I realized something... That jump height varies depending on how far the stick is tilted between 0.42 and 0.63.

Attributes - I'm subbing in the old incorrect values.

Spoiler

Character|Weight (coded)|Weight (B/M scale)|Weight (MeleeNTSCPAL)|Weight (Brawl)
Luigi|1|100|100/100|97
Mario|1|100|100/98|98
Donkey Kong|0.84|119.048|114/114|116
Link|0.96|104.167|104/104|104
Samus|0.92|108.696|110/110|108
Captain Falcon|0.96|104.167|104/104|104
Ness|1.1|99.010|94/94|94
Yoshi|0.93|107.527|108/111|107
Kirby|1.19|84.034|70/74|78
Fox|1|100|75/73|80
Pikachu|1.16|86.207|80/80|79
Jigglypuff|1.3|76.923|60/60|68

AHA found fall speed and normal jump velocity it seems.
Offsets are using cheat engine and mupen 64's rerecording version
P1 vertical velocity (training mode): B617D8
Movement Attributes

Spoiler

Character|Shorthop|Fullhop|Shorthop(run)|Fullhop(run)|jump min (tap)|jump max (tap)
Mario|55|77.5|48.8|67.7|60.7|79.6|
Donkey Kong|73.15|88.2|68.92|81.61||89.6
Link|64.1|86.5|57.8|76.7||88.6

Character|Terminal Velocity|Gravity|Fastfall Terminal Velocity|Fastfall Gravity|Jump Squat|double jump
Mario|44|2.4|70|70|3|71.4
Donkey Kong|56|3|89|89|6|81.266
Link|64|3.4|102|102|7|79.4

Character|Walk Acceleration|Walk Max Speed|Dash Speed|Run Speed|Runstop Deceleration|Friction
Mario||23.1|54|44|1.875
Donkey Kong||24.64|60|48|2.125
Link||28.49|68|42|2.5

Character|Air Acceleration|Air Deceleration Boost|Max Air Speed|Air Friction
Mario|||29.8
Donkey Kong|||29.7|0.3
Link|||31|0

Frame Data

Spoiler

Mario

Spoiler

Mario
jump squat 3
jab 1
hits frame 2
damage: 2%
hitlag: 4 frames
cancel to jab 2: frame 9
ends: 17
jab 2
hits frame 3
damage: 2%
hitlag: 4 frames
cancel to jab 3: frame 8
ends: 19
jab 3
hits frame 4-5
damage: 4%
hitlag: 5 frames
ends: 25
fireball (ground)
fireball appears frame 16
45 total
fireball (air)
fireball appears frame 16
40 total (?)

 

[Sangoku]

We have almost no technical data and we mostly don't know how to find them. Weight for example, how are you supposed to find it in a non-relative way? For simpler stuff like "how many frames for a jump", I could test them out, but the height? How is one supposed to find how much higher a stick jump does? I don't know if there's a way to find precisely by hacking into the rom, but that's definitely not something we can find out ingame.

I could try to help the best I can with simple/ testable stuff, but for the rest, I really don't know.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, I'm aware the community lacks a lot of things. But I know there's a looooot of little things that I might not know about.

And there's one little thing that would be a lot more helpful than you realize. The axis position of the control stick required to do certain actions. As I'm going for as close to 64 as absolutely possible, stuff like that is important so I can implement it myself.

 

[Sangoku]

That's the kind of stuff I can find out, and I already did for some actions. Just need to find the post. In a few days I'll have plenty of time for testing any kind of stuff, so I'll try to provide as much as I can.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

That'd be great! The last time I tried to get this started I had a lot of trouble getting information. Also if anything regarding hitstun or shieldstun formulas is known AT ALL, that's a huge start, because of all things that's going to be the SINGLE hardest thing to pin down.

 

[Sangoku]

That's unfortunately not known. If you have an idea what kind of function that could be (based on melee or brawl), maybe that's something we can find?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

In Brawl and Melee shield stun is based entirely on damage dealt, and hitstun is affected by damage, knockback growth, and base knockback. Hitstun is the trickiest since I simply don't have access to any specific values to work with at all.

I'm currently collecting data on control stick sensitivity.

 

[cmu6eh]

Have you tried asking the folks over at TASvideos?

 

[Sempiternity]

There's this, but that's about it for equations and whatnot, and it's only for Mario.

And it's in Japanese.

I wonder if it would be possible to just contact Nintendo and ask for the technical data? They obviously have it if they put up a "sampler" page for one character...

Although I wouldn't mention that it's for hacking Brawl...

 

[Sangoku]

Only for Mario? Does that mean that the equations are different depending on the character? That's weird.

Also if anyone can translate these formulas, we could have somewhere to start.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

That formula isn't "just for Mario", that's 64's knockback formula! That's a huuuuuuge help.

And I've got some preliminary data regarding movement speeds gathered with Cheat Engine, and Toomai said he knows where hitbox data and attributes are in memory, I'm waiting to hear back from him on that.

Actually, that whole site appears to be full of useful info.


*edit* there's a page titled "the strongest character illusion". lol.

 

[Sangoku]

Oh nice. So I guess you don't need me to test anything then?

By the way, if you make a compilation of frame data, could you post it in here too? I'm sure a lot of us are interested in seeing more technical stuff about the game.

Can anyone translate that site? Google really doesn't make sense.

There are two formulas, one "if the "fixed value reaction" is not set" and one for "if the "fixed value reation" is set". What is it supposed to mean? And what are "impact value R" and "value-added R"? URGH so much confusion.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yup. I'd started on Mario but then heard back from toomai on how he can find the hitbox data, which will be far more accurate than collecting it by hand.

64 seems to drastically differ from Melee and Brawl mechanics-wise... It's going to be a lot of work trying to get things working in Brawl.


And I'm not 100% sure but I've got an idea. I think fixed value is simply fixed knockback, similar to Dedede's downthrow in Brawl.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Down near the bottom of that page I found this!!!!


http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/M_AbilityAll.html


Japanese attribute values!

 

[Sempiternity]

Oh yeah, I was gonna link you to that next. I actually asked my Japanese-speaking friend to translate that, but I haven't heard back from her... probably thinks I'm crazy.

And I saw this: "Here is the player of Futsu think does not really matter where"

and assumed it was for one player. I remember somebody mentioning that it was Mario a while back.

I'll ask again. Is there anything in particular from the other page (the one I linked) that you desperately need translated?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Google translate was good enough. I think I understand what's there well enough to have a start.

Also thanks to Dreamland I now have a conversion scale between 64 and Brawl momentum. Dreamland's wind gives a momentum of 5.7 in 64 and 0.2 in Melee. Thus 28.5 64 momentum units = 1 Melee/Brawl momentum unit.

Weight seems to work perfectly reciprocated. And knockback values likewise seem to have a very good chance of working with very little work on my end. I've also, thanks to Toomai, found the list of attributes in memory for each character and I'll be adding those later.

 

[Toomai]

Yep that's the knockback formula you have there. I whote a bit about it here.

Yes, those weight values are correct - Mario is 1.0, not 100, and smaller means heavier. Reciprocating is the right way to convert.