Cloud Moveset analysis (including Gifycats + Frame Data)

[meleebrawler]

So how good does dash attack look at beating stuff out? It's startup seems to be among the fastest of all swordsmen, and it's basically him holding it out in a defensive position while moving forward.

Also about uair, the hitbox seems to start very close to Cloud's body as the attack involves him pushing it up as the offensive motion.

 

[Virum]

I'm quite curious to see if he'll be able to B-Reverse his Limit Break charging animation. It, alongside B-Reverse Blade Beam, would really help him out in terms of being able to mix up how and where he lands.

 

[Puppyfaic]

i can't see any reason he wouldn't be able to b-reverse blade beam, but limit charge could go either way. it'd be cool to do things like shorthop forward, b-reverse limit charge to full and then punish whatever they whiff with a finishing touch or cross slash.

 

[Tito Maas]

If we're correct in assuming the animation listed as "Taunt 2" is a taunt instead of an idle animation like I thought it was, could we also assume that FF7 Cloud and Advent Children Cloud have two entirely different sets of taunts?

- Both characters apparently have different intro animations.
- AC is never shown using a taunt that FF7 uses
- Wouldn't it be out of place for AC to use a taunt like FF7's summoning animation anyway?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Casting animation guys. Casting animation. That animation was for spells and summons alike. I like to nitpick.

 

[Bladeviper]

If we're correct in assuming the animation listed as "Taunt 2" is a taunt instead of an idle animation like I thought it was, could we also assume that FF7 Cloud and Advent Children Cloud have two entirely different sets of taunts?

- Both characters apparently have different intro animations.
- AC is never shown using a taunt that FF7 uses
- Wouldn't it be out of place for AC to use a taunt like FF7's summoning animation anyway?

The ac costume was never shown taunting but I assume they will have the same taunts I don't know why they wouldn't

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I doubt that different costumes means different animations...

 

[Vyseskies]

perhaps different costumes have different idle position animations, but not taunts

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

perhaps different costumes have different idle position animations, but not taunts

Most characters have 2 different idle animations...

Again, I seriously doubt Sakurai would work on straight up changing the animation of something on different costumes...

 

[meleebrawler]

perhaps different costumes have different idle position animations, but not taunts

I'm pretty sure both costume's idle animations are just "checking my sword".

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Why do people think he'll get different animations depending on the costumes?

Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CHARACTERS and yet, they share ALL animations.

Those idle animations we see are most likely done by Cloud, regardless of the costume...

 

[Tito Maas]

Why do people think he'll get different animations depending on the costumes?

Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CHARACTERS and yet, they share ALL animations.

Those idle animations we see are most likely done by Cloud, regardless of the costume...

You would have to have read my post to see where I came up with the hypothesis.

If you look at the OP, which my post was based off of, Taunt 2 showed two different animations for each Cloud. Based off of that, it wasn't unreasonable to suggest both Clouds may have different taunt animations. But in truth, it's just a screwup in the OP, as those are idle animations instead of taunts, anyway.

Even in the trailer, AC Cloud and FF7 Cloud are both shown doing a single idle animation twice... but FF7 Cloud is never shown doing the "checking the sword" idle animation (which is by far my favorite of the two), while AC Cloud is never shown with the "battle stance reposition" animation. They will still likely have both, but that may be noteworthy.

 

[jet56]

i guess this is what happens when you run out of stuff to talk about, being given only a trailer. you just talk about idle animations and stuff. On a side note, he seems he will suffer from faster characters with good neutral games, like sonic and captain falcon. he just doesn't have the frame data compete with those characters. but ironically, little mac can handle characters like that, but suffers from defensive characters like toon link and samus. which cloud can take care of easily. make a good pair for singles as co-mains, at least from what i can see. no other character forces you to approach like does, purely for the sake that you can't let him charge LB for free, and he has a projectile to boot.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'd wait for the character to come out in playable format before discussing anything. 70% of what has been discussed has just been trivial nonsense.

 

[meleebrawler]

i guess this is what happens when you run out of stuff to talk about, being given only a trailer. you just talk about idle animations and stuff. On a side note, he seems he will suffer from faster characters with good neutral games, like sonic and captain falcon. he just doesn't have the frame data compete with those characters. but ironically, little mac can handle characters like that, but suffers from defensive characters like toon link and samus. which cloud can take care of easily. make a good pair for singles as co-mains, at least from what i can see. no other character forces you to approach like does, purely for the sake that you can't let him charge LB for free, and he has a projectile to boot.

Except combine the Limit Break with the projectile, slap on a reflector, have Limit Break recovery at all times (and then some), and voila!

 

[Neo Zero]

Well there is one more thing we can still talk about

Last frame of the Ifrit clip. Notice anything?

There's a small star by where Cloud's hand is after using his Up-B. Thing is about it is his sword position doesn't match the clip of him using his Up-B in the Villager clip, even though he's facing the same way. There was also no star effect by his hand there and the arms position seems different. So one of the three things might be happening

1) He's ledge snapping from that far away
2) He's intiating the other part of his Up-B
3) It's just a little flare from the stage effect and I'm crazy.

Either way, it's the only part of the trailer not talked about, so have at it lol.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well there is one more thing we can still talk about

View attachment 84471

Last frame of the Ifrit clip. Notice anything?

There's a small star by where Cloud's hand is after using his Up-B. Thing is about it is his sword position doesn't match the clip of him using his Up-B in the Villager clip, even though he's facing the same way. There was also no star effect by his hand there and the arms position seems different. So one of the three things might be happening

1) He's ledge snapping from that far away
2) He's intiating the other part of his Up-B
3) It's just a little flare from the stage effect and I'm crazy.

Either way, it's the only part of the trailer not talked about, so have at it lol.

You sure it's not just because he's using it in the air unlike the two other examples of climhazzard? Try comparing it to the recovery clip.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well there is one more thing we can still talk about

View attachment 84471

Last frame of the Ifrit clip. Notice anything?

There's a small star by where Cloud's hand is after using his Up-B. Thing is about it is his sword position doesn't match the clip of him using his Up-B in the Villager clip, even though he's facing the same way. There was also no star effect by his hand there and the arms position seems different. So one of the three things might be happening

1) He's ledge snapping from that far away
2) He's intiating the other part of his Up-B
3) It's just a little flare from the stage effect and I'm crazy.

Either way, it's the only part of the trailer not talked about, so have at it lol.

1 is straight up impossible, imo. There's just no way Cloud managed to grab a ledge surrounded by flames, especially at such a far distance.

2 and 3, however, are both incredibly likely, but don't really offer anything new.

Now, let's change to another summon: Ramuh

Anyone else noticed that the top platform moved while he performed what I assume is Judgement Bolt?

Is this a result of his summon or simply something that naturally occurs, regardless of whether he's summoned or not?

 

[Neo Zero]

The summon doesn't have to do with Clouds moveset SG >.>. As you can tell, discussion trains are very small now and it was the only other discussion I could think of.

Will compare to air Up-B later.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The summon doesn't have to do with Clouds moveset SG >.>. As you can tell, discussion trains are very small now and it was the only other discussion I could think of.

I know, but I don't see a Midgar stage analysis and I think it's something worth talking about...

Besides, what else can we talk about instead?

------------ EDIT ------------

Wait! I thought of something! Could he have a tipper mechanic?

After all, most of the powerful attacks we see has him hit the opponent with the top half of the blade and what we assume to be the forward tilt, while looking pretty weak, connected with the bottom half of the Buster Sword's blade.

However, the neutral aerial, while connecting at the tip in the trailer, doesn't seem to follow that rule...if it even exists for Cloud...

 

[Ffamran]

Well there is one more thing we can still talk about

View attachment 84471

Last frame of the Ifrit clip. Notice anything?

There's a small star by where Cloud's hand is after using his Up-B. Thing is about it is his sword position doesn't match the clip of him using his Up-B in the Villager clip, even though he's facing the same way. There was also no star effect by his hand there and the arms position seems different. So one of the three things might be happening

1) He's ledge snapping from that far away
2) He's intiating the other part of his Up-B
3) It's just a little flare from the stage effect and I'm crazy.

Either way, it's the only part of the trailer not talked about, so have at it lol.

I know my eyesight is bad, but I don't see Cloud anywhere in that image. I see Toon Link, but he's wearing green on a red background. Then there's some sort of white creature to the bottom right of Toon Link. That being said, it wouldn't be surprising for Cloud to have a large ledge sweet-spot. I mean, Lucas, Roy, and even Fox have large ledge sweet-spots.

 

[meleebrawler]

I know my eyesight is bad, but I don't see Cloud anywhere in that image. I see Toon Link, but he's wearing green on a red background. Then there's some sort of white creature to the bottom right of Toon Link. That being said, it wouldn't be surprising for Cloud to have a large ledge sweet-spot. I mean, Lucas, Roy, and even Fox have large ledge sweet-spots.

He's inside the fire tornado, close to the ledge. Watching the video makes it easier to find.

 

[Ffamran]

He's inside the fire tornado, close to the ledge. Watching the video makes it easier to find.

I checked; that happens within split seconds before the next transition starts. All I saw was Cloud use Climhazzard with his Buster Sword a bit far from the ledge. Still, Roy's Blazer could be nowhere near the ledge and suddenly, ledge-snap. Meanwhile, Little Mac's freaking fist is touching the ledge and he falls down dead. >_>

 

[Strong-Arm]

I think Clouds recovery will be just fine. I imagine itll be a blend of roy's and Marths. It wont be amazing (unless with LB) but itll get the job done. Now the question is do you think Cloud will have a walljump?

 

[ccthirteen]

I'm wondering if he will work somewhat similar to Ryu, in that he has two final smashes. One, being Limit Break and the other being Omnislash?

 

[Bladeviper]

I'm wondering if he will work somewhat similar to Ryu, in that he has two final smashes. One, being Limit Break and the other being Omnislash?

naw the limit break glow is different than the fs glow and we can see at the end of the trailer cloud gets some of his lb charge by hitting someone with a b move

 

[Dark Phazon]

Looks so OP..imo

 

[Ffamran]

Looks so OP..imo

People said that about Palutena and now look where Pally is.

 

[MagiusNecros]

People said that about Palutena and now look where Pally is.

And in succession look at Mewtwo. So OP. Must ban. Yeah no.

 

[meleebrawler]

People said that about Palutena and now look where Pally is.

People didn't really know what they were looking at watching her. Customs were still a new unexplored concept. Honest to god I think some people thought Black Hole + Mega Laser was a normal move.

MagiusNecros I don't recall many people calling Mewtwo OP from watching his trailer, at most saying he looked better than in Melee.

 

[Ffamran]

The idea of trailers and teasers are to bring hype, attention, and interest. If it hooks you, then it's a success. If it fails, then you'll end up with dark horses and sleepers who people don't play since they didn't look interesting. Look at all the trailers for Smash and out of all of them, I'd say Lucina's was the least successful since it showed us she's just a Marth clone and a watered down one compared to Melee Roy. Being in Robin's shadow didn't help either. The rest? All attention grabbers; all successes.

 

[MagiusNecros]

People didn't really know what they were looking at watching her. Customs were still a new unexplored concept. Honest to god I think some people thought Black Hole + Mega Laser was a normal move.

MagiusNecros I don't recall many people calling Mewtwo OP from watching his trailer, at most saying he looked better than in Melee.

You missed the Social topic. Or just didn't read all the "I hope he isn't OP" or "I hope tournies don't ban Mewtwo" messages.

 

[Dark Phazon]

People said that about Palutena and now look where Pally is.

Did they?
But lets be real...look at Ryu.... i think Cloud is gonna be even better which is ridiculous...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Did they?
But lets be real...look at Ryu.... i think Cloud is gonna be even better which is ridiculous...

Ryu's that good because he has combos and a various set of tools and techniques, such as the inputs and FADCs.

Cloud doesn't seem to have such things. The only things he actually has are Limit Breaks and a heavy sword (which means lots of lag)

 

[RonNewcomb]

I'd be very surprised if Cloud ended up higher on the tier list than Ike.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'd be very surprised if Cloud ended up higher on the tier list than Ike.

He actually could.

He seems to have a better neutral with a projectile, great KO potential with LBs and more range. However, his recovery is worse than Ike's (nothing for horizontal recovery), so anything can happen...

 

[Ffamran]

Did they?
But lets be real...look at Ryu.... i think Cloud is gonna be even better which is ridiculous...

Ryu was from a fighting game. Whether or not Ryu wasn't good in Street Fighter doesn't matter when he was from the ground up made to emulate his Street Fighter self meaning almost everything he had from Street Fighter was made available in Smash. That means all the light, medium, and heavy moves, the ability to anti-air with Shoryuken, the idea of stage control with Hadouken unlike the fumbling of all projectiles in Smash, and staple combos like cr. LK to Hadouken were all available to him. It would be insane if Ryu was a bad character and it might even anger not just Street Fighter fans, but Smash and maybe the entire fighting game community to see Ryu be bad in Smash. If Cloud, Snake, or Sonic were bad? Eh, people could give it a pass saying they don't really work in Smash, they couldn't or didn't know how to design them without breaking the game - case in point, Buster Sword's size which Smash makes closer to FFVII instead of Dissidia where Cloud would have outranged Shulk - or whatever reasons there are, but Ryu? Everything about Ryu is right there; Capcom, Street Fighter itself, and the community.

 

[Virum]

Did they?
But lets be real...look at Ryu.... i think Cloud is gonna be even better which is ridiculous...

I don't see how anyone could conceivably think this. Literally nothing suggests this.

 

[Kuraudo]

I don't see how anyone could conceivably think this. Literally nothing suggests this.

Ryu just miraculously lends himself to Smash so well. It was kind of like how they made Lucario in Project M.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm currently watching GameXplain's discussion about Cloud and there's been a really good idea about the Limit Gauge during that discussion; what if Cloud could fill it faster as he gets more damage?