Cloud Moveset analysis (including Gifycats + Frame Data)

[FallofBrawl]

He's clearly in dash startup. The dash smoke doesn't shoot up from walking.

Oh wait nevermind, I see it now. I guess it's just a fox trot but I don't recall being able to act into jab that fast.

 

[Shadestars]

Hmm....I see a lot of people refering to Finishing Touch as his 'counter', though I don't really see a reason to believe that. It didn't look like Cloud actually got hit before the attack went off...I think it's more like Links Spin Attack.

 

[ExL Oblique]

Hmm....I see a lot of people refering to Finishing Touch as his 'counter', though I don't really see a reason to believe that. It didn't look like Cloud actually got hit before the attack went off...I think it's more like Links Spin Attack.

Agreed. It reminds me kinda of rob's side-b

 

[Neo Zero]

Hmm....I see a lot of people refering to Finishing Touch as his 'counter', though I don't really see a reason to believe that. It didn't look like Cloud actually got hit before the attack went off...I think it's more like Links Spin Attack.

Correct, counters don't magically activate from being dashed at after all. Given the circumstances behind it, I imagine it's most likely his most powerful kill option (yes I'm aware that trailer magic means we don't know any percent any character was at when they were hit by anything) on the merit it's the one move with the most build up to it. On high platforms and rage it could be absolutely deadly, though I do wonder if it works the same in the air.

 

[DNeon]

I'm pretty sure the OP has it pretty much exact at this point. Moves look pretty standard, that dash attack seems interesting with a lot of potential. Aerials are fairly standard, Same with smashes, although the consistency of linking his D-Smash hitboxes is questionable given the track record for those kind of moves already.

Awesome to see a bunch of new Specials in a sword fighter. No counter to start, Side B seems like the multihit Mii Neutral B, Limit Break charging and timing the activation well are going to be the keys to getting kills with Cloud, I bet. I wonder just how much of Limit Break Down B is going to be windbox? Also yay for a proper sword fighter with a projectile (Links are not sword fighters, they're primarily projectile users).

 

[Xeze]

His regular up B seems to be pretty bad for recovery, but with Limit Break active it becomes quite good. Seems that handling said Limit Break will be crucial for Cloud's gameplay. Interesting character.

 

[DNeon]

His regular up B seems to be pretty bad for recovery, but with Limit Break active it becomes quite good. Seems that handling said Limit Break will be crucial for Cloud's gameplay. Interesting character.

It's because of this that I wonder what the end lag is on the charge, and if you'll be able to charge while falling to get the better recovery (obviously only if limit guage is almost full, being able to charge a portion of it and then recover is silly).

 

[Tri Knight]

That's less short and more non existent. True, to early to make judgement calls mind you.

Though thinking on it, I do have a rather...unorthodox theory. As you yourself pointed out, the dash animation is clearly based on his dash from Dissidia. Iirc, you could act out of Dashes instantly in that game (attacks, guarding, jumping, etc; ). There wasn't an animation I remember, just you dash, you input a command, and you instantly do it. I wonder then if that possibly was ported over to Cloud to where as soon as you input a command and you're NOT dashing (as in, the input for it isn't there and likely, the initial forced start up is done) you can then proceed to do any standing option, in this case jab. Obviously I can't claim that at all from only a single point of evidence that's inconclusive at best, but if so it could be a VERY strong tool.

EDIT: For the record, not saying some weird mechanic change. More just something of how he's programmed that allows it to simulate that

Charizard stops extremely fast out of dash as well so its perfectly realistic to make that happen.

One thing I'm trying to figure out is the knockback of his moves. As far as Dissidia goes, Cloud was a powerhouse with very aggressive attacks that were used to send opponents flying into walls for wall combos.

Having a sword as massive as his, I would expect him to have very high kill power.

 

[Neo Zero]

Charizard stops extremely fast out of dash as well so its perfectly realistic to make that happen.

One thing I'm trying to figure out is the knockback of his moves. As far as Dissidia goes, Cloud was a powerhouse with very aggressive attacks that were used to send opponents flying into walls for wall combos.

Having a sword as massive as his, I would expect him to have very high kill power.

I suppose that's certainly true enough

Trailer magic aside, I will say a lot of his blows didn't exactly feel like they'd have the weight you'd expect. Useless without knowing percents mind you, but he does feel like his attacks have less weight on them then say, you'd expect when Ike hits you.

 

[meleebrawler]

Charizard stops extremely fast out of dash as well so its perfectly realistic to make that happen.

One thing I'm trying to figure out is the knockback of his moves. As far as Dissidia goes, Cloud was a powerhouse with very aggressive attacks that were used to send opponents flying into walls for wall combos.

Having a sword as massive as his, I would expect him to have very high kill power.

Yeah well, there are no walls to bounce people (for the most part) in Smash, so perhaps he's appropriately keeping the knockback of his moves in check to make followups possible. But floor bounces are always possible, hence fair spiking.

Most of his kill power seems to be focused in his smashes, which are unusually fast for a swordsman, especially fsmash, as well as his specials. Though uair could also be a decent kill move.

Edit: Oh, and bair seems to have decent launching power too.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Yeah well, there are no walls to bounce people (for the most part) in Smash, so perhaps he's appropriately keeping the knockback of his moves in check to make followups possible. But floor bounces are always possible, hence fair spiking.

Most of his kill power seems to be focused in his smashes, which are unusually fast for a swordsman, especially fsmash, as well as his specials. Though uair could also be a decent kill move.

What I like about Fsmash is the multi hit property, it might give it a good shieldstun frame.

I can't wait to get a combo compendium and a thorough guide up!

 

[Tri Knight]

Yeah well, there are no walls to bounce people (for the most part) in Smash, so perhaps he's appropriately keeping the knockback of his moves in check to make followups possible. But floor bounces are always possible, hence fair spiking.

Most of his kill power seems to be focused in his smashes, which are unusually fast for a swordsman, especially fsmash, as well as his specials. Though uair could also be a decent kill move.

I was actually thinking F-air would be one of his best combo starters. I'm just not sure how well it can be spaced which mean i cant tell how safe of a move it is. For a big sword, his range really isn't that long from what I can tell.

 

[Ffamran]

That's less short and more non existent. True, to early to make judgement calls mind you.

Though thinking on it, I do have a rather...unorthodox theory. As you yourself pointed out, the dash animation is clearly based on his dash from Dissidia. Iirc, you could act out of Dashes instantly in that game (attacks, guarding, jumping, etc; ). There wasn't an animation I remember, just you dash, you input a command, and you instantly do it. I wonder then if that possibly was ported over to Cloud to where as soon as you input a command and you're NOT dashing (as in, the input for it isn't there and likely, the initial forced start up is done) you can then proceed to do any standing option, in this case jab. Obviously I can't claim that at all from only a single point of evidence that's inconclusive at best, but if so it could be a VERY strong tool.

EDIT: For the record, not saying some weird mechanic change. More just something of how he's programmed that allows it to simulate that

Cloud feeling like you're playing Dissidia would make sense... but he would need a crapton of hit lag on certain moves like Cross Slash. Anyway, the issue is how his dash works from the trailers: it's a continued dash unlike in Dissidia where you have to keep inputting dash. If say, Cloud's dash was him gliding above ground and then followed by him actually running for his run, it would be "fairer" as if Cloud go dash or run and stop faster than anyone and do whatever he wants, it would be kind of crazy. It would also be more like Dissidia where repeated dashes are the glide while running just happens after dashing and is a sustained movement option. That is not to say not character can do this; it's common to dash or run and stop to do something else, but some characters can't like Luigi who just slides everywhere and no one can stop as fast as Cloud. If he's being released in a month, I doubt he'll have a running animation added...

Also, another note about Dissidia, his sword was much longer in Dissidia. Thinking Smash 4's based more on FFVII since it would be broken if he had a sword longer than Shulk's and still was able to swing relatively fast.

 

[Banjodorf]

Personally i feel that his has two stages. Charging limit seems to be Cloud's neutral form while the whirlwind counter he does later in the trailer makes the most sense for a variant when he has a fully charged limit. There's no reason that he has to have a constant limit that charges in the same way as Little Mac's. Considering it seems a lot more like the way WFT charges her deep breathing.

It's a whirlwind slash, not a counter. I've watched the clip a million times now to stop people from spreading "Oh, another Counter!"

He smacks the **** out of both sides around him, and hits both Roy and Link before they hit him at all.

 

[Deleted member]

It'll be interesting to see if they give Limit Charged U-B any sort of damage bonus in addition to the range boost.

As far as I can tell it seems like the "drop" (a la Aether or Kirby's Final Cutter) is either optional with a second button press a la Shulk's second swing on his U-B.

The only other option I can think for the drop to happen is that it happens automatically off a hit-confirm from the short stab that Cloud does at the beginning of the move, but that seems extremely unlikely.

As I've heard the trailer was in 30 FPS... but does anyone happen to have any tentative frame data on the startup for his U-B? I'm just wondering if it may be viable as some sort of decent OoS option considering that U-Smash seems to hit decently hard but seems to have pretty meh lag on both ends.

 

[Ffamran]

I thought that was a board game! Maybe I'm thinking of something else... Never owned a PSOne... Going to quote this over for the Cloud boards to reference off.

So, anyone own this game? I don't know if there are videos up on movesets... I'll check later.

 

[Sonicninja115]

What if Fair-Uair is a thing?

 

[Burruni]

I think what's listed as "Taunt 2" in the OP are actually two different Idle animations shown off, because at the start of the trailer you see the classic victory pose before the splash art came up and I really believe that this is a taunt.

 

[meleebrawler]

I was actually thinking F-air would be one of his best combo starters. I'm just not sure how well it can be spaced which mean i cant tell how safe of a move it is. For a big sword, his range really isn't that long from what I can tell.

Spacing with Cloud is definitely going to be awkward if you've been playing other swordsmen, who for the most part poke with their dtilts, but you can't really do that with his slide.

From what I've heard of FFVII Limit Breaks charging with damage taken... what if Limit Break in this game charged faster the more damage Cloud has taken?

 

[PreedReve]

What if him charging his Limit Break bar is a taunt? Like, he hold the taunt down and it charges the bar?
That way his specials could be:

Blade Beam
Cross-slash
Climhazzard
Finishing Touch

 

[Burruni]

What if him charging his Limit Break bar is a taunt? Like, he hold the taunt down and it charges the bar?
That way his specials could be:

Blade Beam
Cross-slash
Climhazzard
Finishing Touch

Or, to toss this thought out.

The limit charge basically activates a second version of his specials, akin to the "True" inputs for .
And the "Limit Charge" down B becomes Finishing Touch when in Limit Break mode.

 

[Bladeviper]

I thought that was a board game! Maybe I'm thinking of something else... Never owned a PSOne... Going to quote this over for the Cloud boards to reference off.

So, anyone own this game? I don't know if there are videos up on movesets... I'll check later.

that game is trash lol, but I don't think they took any moves from it as its just basic slashes and he can fight unarmed

 

[Puppyfaic]

Sooooo... I think it's worth noting that Cloud has invincibility on his Limit-Broken Cross Slash.

Where the red box is, you can see a circular effect that denotes that Cloud was "hit", but was immune to the damage and knockback.

So, uh... yeah. This could possibly apply to his other Limit-Broken specials as well.

 

[Burruni]

that game is trash lol, but I don't think they took any moves from it as its just basic slashes and he can fight unarmed

The game isn't trash.
Over-rated but not trash.
And his F-Smash CERTAINLY is taken from his 4x-Cut animation. Which is... one of 3 animations they could even use for his attacks, since his casting pose is a taunt for magic/summons. Then it's his simple overhead slash for normal attack and then the sideways sweep for Flash.
His specials are all his limit breaks, as we've been saying.

 

[Baskerville]

 

[Neo Zero]

Sooooo... I think it's worth noting that Cloud has invincibility on his Limit-Broken Cross Slash. View attachment 82720
Where the red box is, you can see a circular effect that denotes that Cloud was "hit", but was immune to the damage and knockback.

So, uh... yeah. This could possibly apply to his other Limit-Broken specials as well.

I actually believe that might have possibly been from the two attacks possibly clanking rather than Cloud being "hit"(unless that's what you were getting at)

This image also helps paint a clear picture in regards to this subject to enforce your point further.

 

[Puppyfaic]

I actually believe that might have possibly been from the two attacks possibly clanking rather than Cloud being "hit"(unless that's what you were getting at)

This image also helps paint a clear picture in regards to this subject to enforce your point further.

That's a possibility. Either way, Cloud's clearly invincible for the duration of Limit-Broken Cross Slash.

 

[Bladeviper]

The game isn't trash.
Over-rated but not trash.
And his F-Smash CERTAINLY is taken from his 4x-Cut animation. Which is... one of 3 animations they could even use for his attacks, since his casting pose is a taunt for magic/summons. Then it's his simple overhead slash for normal attack and then the sideways sweep for Flash.
His specials are all his limit breaks, as we've been saying.

did you even look at the game that was in the post i quoted cause it was not ff7.

 

[Burruni]

did you even look at the game that was in the post i quoted cause it was not ff7.

I misunderstood from the context because it didn't show the thing in your quote box in that message.

 

[jet56]

Personally, im excited for this a ton, given the fact he looks like a solid and unique swordsman character. i have a theory on his limit break. I think you can charge it with Down B AND it charges when he takes damage, to keep true to how the mechanic worked in FF7. Don't know at all if this is true, but i wouldn't put it past Sakurai to do something like this. and i think it would still be balanced, given the fact that it seems you lose the limit break charge after one special use. oh, and something to keep in mind, if you use the limit break for ANY special move, it makes it difficult to save the limit break charge, since you couldn't use any specials at all if you wanted to save it. so if you wanted it for a recovery option, you couldn't use any other specials so you can still keep the limit charge. which is why i think having the ability to charge it and have it charge from cloud taking damage is balanced, as you would never be holding onto the limit break charge for very long. my thoughts on it anyways.

 

[Shadestars]

What I like about Fsmash is the multi hit property, it might give it a good shieldstun frame.

I can't wait to get a combo compendium and a thorough guide up!

Ooo I wonder if it'll auto-punish spot dodges o3o

Or, to toss this thought out.

The limit charge basically activates a second version of his specials, akin to the "True" inputs for .
And the "Limit Charge" down B becomes Finishing Touch when in Limit Break mode.

I believe this is correct, seeing as how we never see a 'weaker' version of Finishing Touch.

 

[Ffamran]

The game isn't trash.
Over-rated but not trash.
And his F-Smash CERTAINLY is taken from his 4x-Cut animation. Which is... one of 3 animations they could even use for his attacks, since his casting pose is a taunt for magic/summons. Then it's his simple overhead slash for normal attack and then the sideways sweep for Flash.
His specials are all his limit breaks, as we've been saying.

For Ehrgeiz, I think that's where his jab combo is based from: https://youtu.be/p4EPJPENSlI?t=44. So, in Ehrgeiz, he does a side kick, turnaround back kick to the body, and a turnaround whip kick to the head while in Smash 4, he does a side kick, roundhouse, and uses the momentum to swing to his right. Also, it looks like his Dtilt comes from Ehrgeiz as well: https://youtu.be/p4EPJPENSlI?t=61, except it's kind of higher up and not low like in Smash 4, Tekken, or Soul Calibur where you can do a running slide kick.

And I think I found where his dash is from: Kingdom Hearts; people were able to mod Kingdom Hearts and this is footage of Cloud (and Xaldin) as playable characters in Kingdom Hearts II: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fWtzoAnNV0. Apparently, Cloud never runs in-game, but I don't remember ever seeing that since he spammed Sonic Blade all the damn time and at low health, he'd start spamming that and fly. Cloud can move around by strafing in Kingdom Hearts, but it's really, really slow. This is kind of bad... We don't know what his walk even looks like, but if it's based on Kingdom Hearts, then Cloud might have some issues when his only mobile option is running. When I'm talking about slow, I'm talking about Ganondorf walk speed slow. Cloud's strafe in Kingdom Hearts was really, really slow, but didn't matter 'cause Sonic Blade spam. Now, if his "walk" is based on Dissidia('s run), then he'd probably be at least Mario's speed since it's a jog with a heavy sword or at most, Little Mac's speed which would be insane as he'd have the fastest walk for a two-handed swordsman which is currently held by Shulk followed by Ike.

That said, Cloud has another thing under his belt: Cloud's based on multiple games some of which aren't even spin-offs to his own series; Cloud's based on the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII (of course) which includes FFVII, Advent Children, Crisis Core, and maybe Dirge of Cerberus, Dissidia Final Fantasy, a fighting game celebrating Final Fantasy and starring the protagonists and antagonists of Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, a Square Enix and Disney collaboration, and Ergheiz, a fighting game that featured Cloud and other FFVII characters. Of the current third-party characters in Smash, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Snake, and Sonic, all of them are based on one series or even one game like how Snake is Solid Snake, but has elements of Naked Snake from Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater or how Ryu's mostly based on Street Fighter II. Pretty cool thing to have under his belt as not many... er... I don't think any characters have this distinction.

 

[Bladeviper]

For Ehrgeiz, I think that's where his jab combo is based from: https://youtu.be/p4EPJPENSlI?t=44. So, in Ehrgeiz, he does a side kick, turnaround back kick to the body, and another turnaround back kick to the head while in Smash 4, he does a side kick, roundhouse, and uses the momentum to swing to his right. Also, it looks like his Dtilt comes from Ehrgeiz as well: https://youtu.be/p4EPJPENSlI?t=61, except it's kind of higher up and not low like in Smash 4, Tekken, or Soul Calibur where you can do a running slide kick.

And I think I found where his dash is from: Kingdom Hearts; people were able to mod Kingdom Hearts and this is footage of Cloud (and Xaldin) as playable characters in Kingdom Hearts II: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fWtzoAnNV0. Apparently, Cloud never runs in-game, but I don't remember ever seeing that since he spammed Sonic Blade all the damn time and at low health, he'd start spamming that and fly. Cloud can move around by strafing in Kingdom Hearts, but it's really, really slow. This is kind of bad... We don't know what his walk even looks like, but if it's based on Kingdom Hearts, then Cloud might have some issues when his only mobile option is running. When I'm talking about slow, I'm talking about Ganondorf walk speed slow. Cloud's strafe in Kingdom Hearts was really, really slow, but didn't matter 'cause Sonic Blade spam. Now, if his "walk" is based on Dissidia('s run), then he'd probably be at least Mario's speed since it's a jog with a heavy sword or at most, Little Mac's speed which would be insane as he'd have the fastest walk for a two-handed swordsman which is currently held by Shulk followed by Ike.

That said, Cloud has another thing under his belt: Cloud's based on multiple games some of which aren't even spin-offs to his own series; Cloud's based on the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII (of course) which includes FFVII, Advent Children, Crisis Core, and maybe Dirge of Cerberus, Dissidia Final Fantasy, a fighting game celebrating Final Fantasy and starring the protagonists and antagonists of Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, a Square Enix and Disney collaboration, and Ergheiz, a fighting game that featured Cloud and other FFVII characters. Of the current third-party characters in Smash, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Snake, and Sonic, all of them are based on one series or even one game like how Snake is Solid Snake, but has elements of Naked Snake from Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater or how Ryu's mostly based on Street Fighter II. Pretty cool thing to have under his belt as not many... er... I don't think any characters have this distinction.

well he does walk at the being of the the trailer, not sure if it is full speed or not though.

 

[DNeon]

Pretty sure taunt 2 is wrong in the OP, I believe it's this from the very start of the trailer, the others are what I believe to be correct though.

As another addition, this would appear to be his spawn animation.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

The spawn animation can't be this. Not only the summon animation seems to be a taunt (seen with Prince Sablé) but the summon system is tied with the Midgar stage.

The orbs appears during a summon in FF7, and he is landing shortly before summoning.

 

[Virum]

Previously I estimated that FTilt was about frame 9 or so and looking back at it there is one more piece of evidence to support this.

At the point where he initiates his FTilt, Pit also initiates his on the same frame. Pit's FTilt hits frame 10 but Cloud's obviously hit first just before Pit's was about to hit, further justifying that this move is likely frame 9 (possibly frame 8). Frame 8 startup puts it at the same startup as Marth/Lucina/Roy FTilts.

 

[ligersandtigons]

at what percentage do characters start steaming again?

I noticed that neither Sheik, Fox, Link or Roy were steaming when hit by the LB Cross slash or Finishing touch yet were easily sent flying and KO'd
This could give us some insight on how powerful LB moves are

 

[Virum]

at what percentage do characters start steaming again?

I noticed that neither Sheik, Fox, Link or Roy were steaming when hit by the LB Cross slash or Finishing touch yet were easily sent flying and KO'd
This could give us some insight on how powerful LB moves are

100%+ is when characters start steaming.

 

[Arrei]

Have any of the trailers actually shown off usual rage steam, though? I actually can't recall.

 

[Nu~]

None of the characters were steaming in the video IIRC so it seems that cloud hits pretty dang hard.