Cloud Moveset analysis (including Gifycats + Frame Data)

[Metal B]

I'm guessing that Finishing Touch only happens when Limit is fully charged (so like, Down B charges Limit, then when full uses Finishing Touch). Rest are obviously enhancements.

You physically see him charging it though...it's not like Little Mac where you couldn't see what he was doing in his trailer, you flat out see Cloud charging it.

Sakruai is known for looking out for all of the details of a game and character. Cloud charging up a Limit Break, would be a completely misrepresentation of him and Final Fantasy 7. I can't see him making such a big mistake.
In my opinion Limit Breaks Animation will be triggered in some other way (like standing still after getting some damage).

I can be totally wrong, since it really looks like Cloud charges his bar, but it would be really strange in my opinion.

 

[Neo Zero]

Sakruai is known for looking out for all of the details of a game and character. Cloud charging up a Limit Break, would be a completely misrepresentation of him and Final Fantasy 7. I can't see him making such a big mistake.
In my opinion Limit Breaks Animation will be triggered in some other way (like standing still after getting some damage).

I can be totally wrong, since it really looks like Cloud charges his bar, but it would be really strange in my opinion.

Likely they would have shown a Limitless Finishing Touch however if Down B was just that. However, the distinction was made and it only seen with Limit charged.

Speaking of limits, far far to early to say, but I imagine the best use for it likely is on his Up B, since it looks like a very poor recovery otherwise. Of course, I imagine it'd take to long to fully charge the gauge if you're off stage to use Up-B and still recover, but time will certainly tell.

 

[The_Cardinal]

That "wind" move, aka finishing touch, honestly seems to me to be a limit break version of his down smash. If this is true, than that would be interesting since it would mean limit breaks can also modify normals.

 

[Deleted member]

Likely they would have shown a Limitless Finishing Touch however if Down B was just that. However, the distinction was made and it only seen with Limit charged.

Speaking of limits, far far to early to say, but I imagine the best use for it likely is on his Up B, since it looks like a very poor recovery otherwise. Of course, I imagine it'd take to long to fully charge the gauge if you're off stage to use Up-B and still recover, but time will certainly tell.

Agreed.

Additionally, I feel like his other specials when used with Limit charged are such hard commitments and so telegraphed frame-wise that they would be risky to waste the limit on when Cloud is nearing kill percent. As far as I can tell his DJ height seems decent but he seems like a fastfaller and I don't trust his horizontal air speed is the greatest either so I can seem him needing all the recovery help he can get.

Cloud seems like he has enough kill power in his normal set to not rely on the Limit-buffed specials for stocks anyways (unless he is way ahead in percent and can afford burning a Limit charge and manage to get it back before he needs the recovery boost), and going back to their overall traits I can't see them breaking shields (except for maybe the Limit charged D-B) so IMO their use may be pretty situational (although his Limit-charged projectile seems like it could have potential for catching landings).

Generally speaking I get the feeling he'll have a field day with rage too.

We'll just have to wait and see though.

 

[Neo Zero]

That "wind" move, aka finishing touch, honestly seems to me to be a limit break version of his down smash. If this is true, than that would be interesting since it would mean limit breaks can also modify normals.

If you were going to say that I'd at least say Up Smash since the animation is a bit more like that.

Also, some pre-emptive hype based math.

Taken from the earliest frame of Cloud charging

Taken from when the Limit break is fully charged (when it dings, the full charge may be slightly before the ding tbf)

Of course, without Vegas I can't count frames or exact seconds, but we see that for that one grey block of meter, it takes around 1 second.

Using said grey block, I added an inner stroke and laid them out on the limit bar. There's about 4 and a half, so roughly it takes 4.5 seconds to fully charge, given what we're shown. Obviously will need to be tested once he's out, but it hopefully gives a rough estimate on what kind of tool the Limit Charge is.

 

[The_Cardinal]

The limit break version of cross slash at least seems have very fast start up (maybe even invincibility frames?) since it cleanly beats out both bouncing fish and fox's dash attack.

 

[Sonicninja115]

It's at 1:00 in the above video.

Thanks! I literally found it and then came to smashboards to post, guess I should've looked here earlier.

He dashes like Rosalina, Palutena, and Mewtwo instead of running like in Dissidia and like Zack Fair in Crisis Core. Dashing is a thing you can do in Dissidia, but you can just run. Did we - need to rewatch the trailer - see him "run" at all? If so, he might have one of the faster walks. Random gameplay of Dissidia for the whole dashing thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgvgVHuJwCU.


More like Ike ripped off Cloud's Omnislash. Been a thing since Final Fantasy VII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2genMmEmCwg.

His final smash is just like Ike's, and Ike's is a variant of the FF7 omnislash.

 

[Smash4United]

If you were going to say that I'd at least say Up Smash since the animation is a bit more like that.

Also, some pre-emptive hype based math.

Taken from the earliest frame of Cloud charging

Taken from when the Limit break is fully charged (when it dings, the full charge may be slightly before the ding tbf)

Of course, without Vegas I can't count frames or exact seconds, but we see that for that one grey block of meter, it takes around 1 second.

Using said grey block, I added an inner stroke and laid them out on the limit bar. There's about 4 and a half, so roughly it takes 4.5 seconds to fully charge, given what we're shown. Obviously will need to be tested once he's out, but it hopefully gives a rough estimate on what kind of tool the Limit Charge is.

Good that you mention it. I have the movie in sony vegas. Will upload it tomorrow for everyone here who's interested in counting frames. I'm not really adept at it. Keep in mind this might be an alpha build and subject to change. Don't take any frame data at face value just yet.

 

[Neo Zero]

Good that you mention it. I have the movie in sony vegas. Will upload it tomorrow for everyone here who's interested in counting frames. I'm not really adept at it. Keep in mind this might be an alpha build and subject to change. Don't take any frame data at face value just yet.

Of course not, still a rough measurement never hurt anyone (as long as people are aware alpha=not final lol). Honestly thought that was obvious enough so I didn't mention it lol.

 

[BlueX]

I will have to say IMO that his jab does look really useful for quick combos. It looks really fast.

 

[Ffamran]

His final smash is just like Ike's, and Ike's is a variant of the FF7 omnislash.

Which means Cloud didn't rip off Ike's Great Aether... >_>

I will have to say IMO that his jab does look really useful for quick combos. It looks really fast.

Probably frame 3 or 4. Hope they lower Shulk's (frame 5) if Cloud's going to have a jab that fast and hits low too.

 

[Bowserlick]

I think Cloud charges his limit bar with Down B. This enhances the next special that is used.
His B move looks like a beam.
His side B a slice combo.
His Up B a vertical slice.

If Down B is used when the gauge is full, instead of charging the bar, Cloud unleashes a hurricane of blade swipes sending opponents upwards.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Sakurai is known for looking out for all of the details of a game and character.

Unless your name is Ridley or Ganondorf.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

The only ripoff move here is Omnislash, but even then it isn't just like Ike's because it begins with a dash. Everything else, though based in the animations of other characters, is something from Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts. At least, so far. Maybe the Game Theorists can come to the rescue on this one?

Regardless, (unless Isaac or Wolf happens) I think I'll swap mains to Cloud based on moveset alone. I've only ever played FF6, and not even to completion, but his moveset just feels natural to my playstyle so I might. I dunno, I'll wait until December to see.

 

[FlynnCL]

Quite a few of Cloud's animations aren't natural sword swings, they appear to have emphasized start-up but an instant slash complete with sword trails the very next frame. It really reminds me of his games.

There is one aerial attack that I love which shows what I'm talking about:

What's pictured to the left is the frame (or 2nd frame as it's a 30fps trailer) before he attacks as shown in the right. Such an instantaneous change in animation shows how significant his range can be for some attacks. What's amazing is that (if the trailer is anything to go by) this aerial is one of his faster attacks in start up. If it's above 10 frames I'll be shocked.

That has the makings of a ridiculous anti-air especially since it has so much horizontal range too. The Buster Sword keeps glowing for a few more frames after hitting Samus which could imply a decent amount of active frames.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I think the LB mechanic is gonna be great. Build up your meter and either save it for when you need it AKA recovery or spend your stack on a big attack.

 

[The_Cardinal]

I also wonder if LB will add armor, increased shield damage (kinda like his Ultima sword in Dissidia), invul frames, etc to his attacks. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that is the case. Would make for some great punish tools.

 

[Rakurai]

LB Cross-Slash is going to be ridiculous if it has i-frames on top of the near instantaneous start-up.

 

[Ffamran]

Like Mega Man, Ryu, and to an extent, Pac-Man, some of Cloud's moves are going to have names. Looking at the gifs, his trailer, and looking at Final Fantasy VII and Dissidia, I think these are the named moves he has.

Spoiler

Ftilt: Dissidia Cutting Edge? Look like the first part of it... Makes me wonder if there's a second which doesn't seem so if Pit's flying that far.

Up Smash: Dissidia Aerial Fang or Dissidia Sonic Break variation? For Aerial Fang, Cloud makes himself airborne like in Dissidia or like how Wolf can suddenly flip upside and not fall while doing his Up Smash. For Sonic Break, he just does an uppercut, but steps forward - sort of like a vertical baseball bat swing. Edit: It's probably a variation of Sonic Break... which could mean Nair is a reverse Aerial Fang.

Side Smash: Modified Dissidia Cutting Edge? In Dissidia, Cloud would do 2 downward slashes with the second one having him leap and land with his right leg in front. Smash 4 has him do 3 hits with the last hit being in place and the second hit being an uppercut that sort of serves as a link to the last hit.

Nair: Dissidia Slash Blow last hit variation (Edit: or potentially a reverse Dissidia Aerial Fang). Looks kind of similar, except in Smash 4, it looks "weaker", "lazier", and wider than in Dissidia where it's basically his Braver or Ike's Fair, but if they spun after the hit. Same principle is there; a wide, arcing hit, but in Smash 4, Cloud only uses one arm just like how Ike uses only one arm to swing.

Uair: FFVII Climhazzard first hit variation. No question marks, just seems like an aerial version of Climhazzard - can't tell if Cloud rises up slightly. FFVII since unlike the original, Dissidia has Cloud slash upwards like Marth's Dolphin Slash or Dante's High Time in Devil May Cry instead of holding his blade parallel and rising up.

Fair: FFVII Braver? Closest thing that looks to it. Difference being Cloud doesn't shoot down like FFVII or Dissidia. Kind of reminds me of Snake's Fair except instead of using his leg, Cloud uses his Buster Sword.

Bair: Dissidia Slash Blow. Closest thing too it. Differences being Cloud only hits once (as far as we know) and there's no finisher which if it did have one, would be pretty broken if Cloud could guarantee a spike. Oh, and it's a back hit unlike in Dissidia where Cloud uses this while facing forward.

Dair: Dissidia Climhazzard second hit variation? In Dissidia, Cloud would thrust his sword down kind of like an upside Link Uair while in Smash 4, it looks like he just slams the flat of the blade down. If he is thrusting his blade down, then it's just Dissidia's Climhazzard's second hit.

Neutral Special: Smash 4 Blade Beam and EX Blade Beam. Surprisingly enough, it doesn't resemble either FFVII or Dissidia's Blade Beam. Cloud swings up instead of swinging down like in his game and in Dissidia. Strange... Really strange. Also, the regular Blade Beam is colored green like in FFVII while the EX version is colored blue like in Advent Children and Dissidia.

Up Special: FFVII Climhazzard and EX Climhazzard. Nothing different about this move other than the second hit which is just a downwards FFVII Climhazzard.

Side Special: Smash 4 Cross Slash and EX Cross Slash. Another one? In FFVII, Cloud would slash diagonally up, slash horizontally again, and it looks like the kanji would be the last hit while in Dissidia, he would slash down, slash diagonally to the left and move left, and finish with a diagonal slash to the right and move right. Smash 4 has him hit 4 times; diagonally down twice in a X formation, a low slash?, and diagonally up. Funny enough, this makes it more similar to Zack's Chain Slash, except Zack's low slash is a downwards slash immediately followed by a horizontal slash and he ends with a downwards slash.

Down Special: No idea; people say he's using a Limit Break charge.

Final Smash: Omnislash.

Finishing Touch... I don't know where this ones goes. It could be his Down Special after it's charged and it could be his EX Up Smash which would mean Cloud's the only character with a normal that changes through a move like how Little Mac's the only character with different moves when his Side Smash is angled instead of, well, an angled Side Smash.

 

[Kulty]

OK. So based on what I saw from this trailer...

Cloud is a character that makes me think of a combination of which I think most people agree with. However, I don't consider Cloud a clone of Ike (SERIOUSLY?). He has good range since he's a swordsman, decent dashing speed, decent jumps, good startup on his moves such as his Bair on Ryu, a projectile which IS AWESOME since no swordsman other thanhas a projectile which might give him an advantage over other swordsmen in the game. However, I find that he's quite tall, which makes me think that he will be kinda easy to hit in neutral, his recovery is quite CRAPPY (no horizontal momentum, and only average vertical distance) without the Limit move. I feel that he has a bit of endlag on his moves, which can be easy for fast characters to punish him. I feel that Cloud's neutral game will be mostly based on Limit. It boots up everyone of his specials: stronger projectiles, better recovery distance, powerful slash, etc. Probably his reliable method to rack up KOs. I'm quite curious about his taunts (the one that has energy balls surrounding him). I wonder if it will affect his gameplay or something. I don't know. Not sure.

As for the stage, well...IT'S OBVIOUSLY BANNED. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! That's just things that I found about him. Overall, I'm excited for this character and to try him out. Cool taunts and great costume that makes me think of Kirito.

*EDIT: I think the part of the trailer when they showed off the stage where Cloud has sort of energy balls surrounding him is probably his entrance-on-stage animation. Not sure, but I'm mostly positive it's that. Not a taunt like I previously said before.

 

[PK Gaming]

By the way, the name of his shown limits are Blade Beam (neutral B), Cross Slash (Forward B), Climhazard (Up B)

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

[QUOTE="LeeSmash4Me, post: 20438639, member: 314615" no swordsman other thanhas a projectile which might give him an advantage over other swordsmen in the game.[/quote]

*EDIT: I think the part of the trailer when they showed off the stage where Cloud has sort of energy balls surrounding him is probably his entrance-on-stage animation. Not sure, but I'm mostly positive it's that. Not a taunt like I previously said before.

The "summon" animation is definitely a taunt. It's seen on Palutena's Temple, without the orbs, and during an assist trophy. I'm not a FF expert, but the orbs, and the summons definitely are stage hazards, summoned by the player (red flying orb, red aura that Toon Link have during the Ifrit summon)

 

[GFD]

There's an interesting moment I noticed during the stage exhibition part of the trailer that I haven't seen anyone else mention. Here's a gfycat of it that I manually stabilized:

(You can slow it down with the controls in the bottom-right to get a better look.) It looks like Cloud dashes for ~18 frames, then suddenly interrupts it with jab 1. (Earlier example of jab 1 included for reference.) How does this happen, exactly? Is there a global AT used here that I'm not aware of? Is this ability granted by the stage's buff mechanic? Or can Cloud just do this normally, somehow?

 

[meleebrawler]

There's an interesting moment I noticed during the stage exhibition part of the trailer that I haven't seen anyone else mention. Here's a gfycat of it that I manually stabilized:

(You can slow it down with the controls in the bottom-right to get a better look.) It looks like Cloud dashes for ~18 frames, then suddenly interrupts it with jab 1. (Earlier example of jab 1 included for reference.) How does this happen, exactly? Is there a global AT used here that I'm not aware of? Is this ability granted by the stage's buff mechanic? Or can Cloud just do this normally, somehow?

And I take it glowing red indicates Limit Break is active?

...Can anyone fill me in if Limit Break does something other that activate special moves in FFVII?

 

[GFD]

I'm pretty sure Limit Break's indicator is a blue glow. The red glow seems to be exclusive to this stage, being granted by this item. (Not sure what it is — I've never played a Final Fantasy game.)

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Personally i feel that his has two stages. Charging limit seems to be Cloud's neutral form while the whirlwind counter he does later in the trailer makes the most sense for a variant when he has a fully charged limit. There's no reason that he has to have a constant limit that charges in the same way as Little Mac's. Considering it seems a lot more like the way WFT charges her deep breathing.

 

[Kulty]

[QUOTE="LeeSmash4Me, post: 20438639, member: 314615" no swordsman other thanhas a projectile which might give him an advantage over other swordsmen in the game.

The "summon" animation is definitely a taunt. It's seen on Palutena's Temple, without the orbs, and during an assist trophy. I'm not a FF expert, but the orbs, and the summons definitely are stage hazards, summoned by the player (red flying orb, red aura that Toon Link have during the Ifrit summon)[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah. How could I forgot about them? Again, still not sure. This is based on my assumptions from this trailer. I might be wrong, You may be right, but it all doesn't matter once Cloud will be released. I think he will be the same price as Ryu and I hope he comes at around December. Just for our Christmas present for Smash DLC. XD

 

[Neo Zero]

There's an interesting moment I noticed during the stage exhibition part of the trailer that I haven't seen anyone else mention. Here's a gfycat of it that I manually stabilized:

(You can slow it down with the controls in the bottom-right to get a better look.) It looks like Cloud dashes for ~18 frames, then suddenly interrupts it with jab 1. (Earlier example of jab 1 included for reference.) How does this happen, exactly? Is there a global AT used here that I'm not aware of? Is this ability granted by the stage's buff mechanic? Or can Cloud just do this normally, somehow?

Hmm, that's actually really interesting. Could just be from the enhanced state from the stage item but still a good find anyway, a possibility to test later.

 

[JokeOnTheInternet]

About the whole down B situation. What I noticed from the trailer is that when he charges up limit break to the max, he has a glow around him, every time he uses a move, the glow disappears. I'm guessing this is like a Project M Lucas type thing.

 

[Quarium]

You physically see him charging it though...it's not like Little Mac where you couldn't see what he was doing in his trailer, you flat out see Cloud charging it.

I honestly assumed that to be a taunt with the glow having been simply sinchronized with it, battle Menu and limit bar simply edited in into the trailer so it would look cooler... is it just me?

 

[Virum]

I might as well add my observations to the speculation melting pot:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3smdlo/estimate_frame_data_and_analysis_for_clouds/

Based on gfys that were roughly 29-30fps, so I merely counted the frames and approximately doubled them so it's all rough estimates.

Tbh with regards to Cross Slash and Blade Beam, I'm not quite sure which is which for Neutral B and Side B. The more I think about it the more I think it's more likely to be Blade Beam N-B and Cross Slash S-B but hey I guess we'll wait and see. Up B definitely seems like a combination of Climhazzard as he rises and Braver as he crashes down.

 

[The_Cardinal]

I'm pretty sure Limit Break's indicator is a blue glow. The red glow seems to be exclusive to this stage, being granted by this item. (Not sure what it is — I've never played a Final Fantasy game.)

Seems to be the Summon materia (materias are color coded, red being summon specifically), aka the thing that summons all those mythical creatures in the stage.

 

[Ffamran]

There's an interesting moment I noticed during the stage exhibition part of the trailer that I haven't seen anyone else mention. Here's a gfycat of it that I manually stabilized:

(You can slow it down with the controls in the bottom-right to get a better look.) It looks like Cloud dashes for ~18 frames, then suddenly interrupts it with jab 1. (Earlier example of jab 1 included for reference.) How does this happen, exactly? Is there a global AT used here that I'm not aware of? Is this ability granted by the stage's buff mechanic? Or can Cloud just do this normally, somehow?

It could be explained by Cloud having a really short dash skid... thing...

 

[Neo Zero]

It could be explained by Cloud having a really short dash skid... thing...

That's less short and more non existent. True, to early to make judgement calls mind you.

Though thinking on it, I do have a rather...unorthodox theory. As you yourself pointed out, the dash animation is clearly based on his dash from Dissidia. Iirc, you could act out of Dashes instantly in that game (attacks, guarding, jumping, etc; ). There wasn't an animation I remember, just you dash, you input a command, and you instantly do it. I wonder then if that possibly was ported over to Cloud to where as soon as you input a command and you're NOT dashing (as in, the input for it isn't there and likely, the initial forced start up is done) you can then proceed to do any standing option, in this case jab. Obviously I can't claim that at all from only a single point of evidence that's inconclusive at best, but if so it could be a VERY strong tool.

EDIT: For the record, not saying some weird mechanic change. More just something of how he's programmed that allows it to simulate that

 

[Moon Monkey]

This is is surreal

 

[ligersandtigons]

I'm pretty sure Limit Break's indicator is a blue glow. The red glow seems to be exclusive to this stage, being granted by this item. (Not sure what it is — I've never played a Final Fantasy game.)

where is that picture from

 

[Delzethin]

Lot of Robins in here, it looks like. I guess we're all interested in Cloud as a potential secondary while Isaac is still MIA?

As far as I can tell, the specials look to be this:

: Blade Beam
Seems to be the most simplistic of them and was the first special shown, and therefore the most likely to be his neutral. Having what looks to be a transcendent projectile could give Cloud a way to unseat projectile campers and apply pressure at a distance in neutral.

: Cross Slash
Apparently in Dissidia, you press the button once for each "stroke" of the symbol the attack makes (Does anyone know what kanji that is, by the way?), so it'll probably be similar here and you'll press B for every hit after the first.

: Climhazzard
Notably only went straight up in its regular form, meaning Cloud could have shaky recovery unless Cross Slash can propel him forward. The second, downward part might happen with a second button press like with Shulk's Air Slash, or maybe it kicks in automatically if the first hit connects.

: Limit Charge
Here's where things get interesting. This seems to be how Cloud charges his Limit meter. In the trailer, we see him assume a pose and the meter appears above him and slowly charges. Whether it also builds from taking damage, we don't know, but this seems to be a reliable way to charge it. Against opponents lacking in projectiles, this could basically force opponents to approach or risk giving Cloud a powerful tool.

And things get more interesting still once the meter is fully charged and Limit Break kicks in, surrounding Cloud with a blue aura and augmenting the next special he uses. Blade Beam, Cross Slash, and Climhazzard merely gain additional damage and/or properties, but it looks like his down special changes completely!

(Limit Break): Finishing Blow
And this is where that cyclone attack comes in. We only saw its powered up version because it's the only version that exists!

 

[FallofBrawl]

For the instant jab cancel thing, Cloud wasn't running, that's like his walk. His dash is when he hovers above the ground like Palu.

 

[Xermo]

For the instant jab cancel thing, Cloud wasn't running, that's like his walk. His dash is when he hovers above the ground like Palu.

He's clearly in dash startup. The dash smoke doesn't shoot up from walking.

 

[Shadestars]

Ok

GUYS! Stop saying his special is "Charging his Limit Break"!
This isn't now it worked in Final Fanasy 7. You can't charge your bar in the game. It will be charged by taking damage similar to Little Mac.

Here his my idea, how his Move-List looks like:

Up-B: Climhazzard (Braver has no pink line and starts in the air)
Two hit move similar to Shulk and Kirby. The first part lets him jump in the air and the second has him slashing downwards. He can cancel the second part. The Limitbreak gives him more altitude (and properly power).

B: Blade Beam
A simple horizontal beam. I think it is stronger and has more reach on the ground. The Limitbreak increase power, reach and makes it into a multi-hit-move.

Side-B: Cross-Slash
A natural combo similar to Marth or some standard A-moves. The Limitbreak increase its power.

Down B: Modified Finishing Touch
The move is actually only the first part of his original Finishing Touch (it has the same animation), but it misses the tornado at the end. He spins around, to hit all his opponents around him. It's a strange special. The Limitbreak increase its power, i guess.

You DID have to charge his limit in Dissidia, could easily be the same here. I think Limit Charge will be mapped to down B. Finishing Touch will also be mapped to Down B, but will only be usable once the limit gauge is already full. The fact we do not see the 'weaker' version of Finishing Touch supports this.