Clones < Non-Clones

[S2]

The problem with having 50 characters isn't the number of franchises Nintendo has at their disposal, but the time it takes to create the game.


If they make 50 characters, don't expect the game to be balanced or any of the characters to have much unique about them.

Look at fighters with huge rosters, they take shortcuts because there is no other way around it.

The huge roster is either due to massive amounts of clones (DBZ: Tenchaichi series) or reuse of previous assets (Mvc2, Pretty much every Naruto fighting game, etc).

Even then, sometimes you end up with a game that's fun, but a broken mess competitevly in terms of balance (Yeah, MvC2 is fun, but all but about 10 of 60 characters are useful at high level play. 10 being a gracious number, since some of those 10 are only their for their supports). I love MvC2 by the way.


But yeah, I'm for clones that make sense. Falco being a Fox clone is fine with me. Same with Doc and Y.Link. Ganondorf was a little out of place (he needs his own moveset really).

I'd rather have some clone characters to make the roster bigger than have them scaled out. Melee handled the clones very well by making them play pretty differently in terms of strategy.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Mmmm...nahhh. If there would be around 50 then one would think there'd be a heck (I don't curse on Sundays) of alot of more character updates. No....Sakurai wouldn't be keeping 30 + characters a secret from us....would he?

Why wouldn't he?

I don't think anyone can really know what he will or won't do.

 

[XACE-K]

I would rather have 40 plus characters with some being clones than 30 characters with original movesets. Some people have mains that are clones of characters. One of my mains is even a clone.

 

[shadenexus18]

The problem with having 50 characters isn't the number of franchises Nintendo has at their disposal, but the time it takes to create the game.


If they make 50 characters, don't expect the game to be balanced or any of the characters to have much unique about them.

Look at fighters with huge rosters, they take shortcuts because there is no other way around it.

The huge roster is either due to massive amounts of clones (DBZ: Tenchaichi series) or reuse of previous assets (Mvc2, Pretty much every Naruto fighting game, etc).

Even then, sometimes you end up with a game that's fun, but a broken mess competitevly in terms of balance (Yeah, MvC2 is fun, but all but about 10 of 60 characters are useful at high level play. 10 being a gracious number, since some of those 10 are only their for their supports). I love MvC2 by the way.


But yeah, I'm for clones that make sense. Falco being a Fox clone is fine with me. Same with Doc and Y.Link. Ganondorf was a little out of place (he needs his own moveset really).

I'd rather have some clone characters to make the roster bigger than have them scaled out. Melee handled the clones very well by making them play pretty differently in terms of strategy.

Super Smash Bros Budokai Tenkachi 3= win. (Ha, if only fellas, if only...)

Oh and I like the Marvel vs. Capcom series too. Did you know there is going to be another one?

On topic: Pretty much what this guy said. If there were 50 characters, the game would still be good, but not as good seeing as no one on that roster (only a select few of characters) would really have a moveset to call there own. I mean, if that happened, heck, I'd still buy it, but alot of fans wouldn't like it.

 

[Ca$hoholic]

Yay for clones! just funnier that way, but these "clones" yes they have same moveset anmd stuff, but they are still different like fox x falco, fox is faster, and falco jumps higher... they are not the same een though they use the same moves, plus they got different smash attacks...

 

[Big-Cat]

Interesting. Where did you hear that the adventure mode was going to be 10 hours?

A Korean website said it came from Famitsu recently. When I said "supposedly" I wasn't and still am not sure if it's true.

 

[Kooichi]

Real Clones will defiantly not be in Brawl. As for Luigi-fied type clones, I bet we'll have a few. And I'd have no problem with that :D

 

[Agosta44]

The problem with having 50 characters isn't the number of franchises Nintendo has at their disposal, but the time it takes to create the game.


If they make 50 characters, don't expect the game to be balanced or any of the characters to have much unique about them.

Look at fighters with huge rosters, they take shortcuts because there is no other way around it.

The huge roster is either due to massive amounts of clones (DBZ: Tenchaichi series) or reuse of previous assets (Mvc2, Pretty much every Naruto fighting game, etc).

Even then, sometimes you end up with a game that's fun, but a broken mess competitevly in terms of balance (Yeah, MvC2 is fun, but all but about 10 of 60 characters are useful at high level play. 10 being a gracious number, since some of those 10 are only their for their supports). I love MvC2 by the way.


But yeah, I'm for clones that make sense. Falco being a Fox clone is fine with me. Same with Doc and Y.Link. Ganondorf was a little out of place (he needs his own moveset really).

I'd rather have some clone characters to make the roster bigger than have them scaled out. Melee handled the clones very well by making them play pretty differently in terms of strategy.

Why do you say their isn't/wasn't enough time to balance the game? Last time I checked, they've had 6 years to plan and develop the game. Hell, we could get 50 original characters for all we know. We just needa wait about 2 weeks to find out.

 

[lavamage]

The fact remains that Nintendos cloneing process is not foulproof, because obviously somewhere they messed up because otherwise Fox and Falco would be the same, but their lazers and falling speeds are different. Young link would have normal arrows, Ganon would have the Knee, ect.

while clones are not a good thing, I would prefer to have a character I enjoy in as a clone as opposed to not being it at all. Like someone else said, would Melee be any better without Falco, Ganon, Young Link, Roy, Dr. Mario? No, it would simpyl have less characters.

 

[Big-Cat]

Real Clones will defiantly not be in Brawl.

Mr. Wright, do you have proof that this statement is true?

 

[Sp1yd3r]

no clones FTW

 

[PwnyRide]

Why do you say their isn't/wasn't enough time to balance the game? Last time I checked, they've had 6 years to plan and develop the game. Hell, we could get 50 original characters for all we know. We just needa wait about 2 weeks to find out.

Well last time I checked, Nintendo didnt start developing SSBB the moment it was officially released. Sure, for all we know we MIGHT get 50 original characters, but looking at it from a down to earth and realistic point of view, no, it aint happening.

Double the characters would essentially mean double the time to develop the game, meaning more balancing. Expect less and you get disappointed less.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well last time I checked, Nintendo didnt start developing SSBB the moment it was officially released. Sure, for all we know we MIGHT get 50 original characters, but looking at it from a down to earth and realistic point of view, no, it aint happening.

Double the characters would essentially mean double the time to develop the game, meaning more balancing. Expect less and you get disappointed less.

You have to remember however, that the team is supposedly much bigger than Melee's.

 

[Fearthesmash]

didn't sakurai also say he is going to have 40 characters in Brawl or somewhere around there?
correct me if I am wrong

NO

Sakurai did NOT say that there were no clones, go read a couple of SamuraiPanda's threads for actual reasoning showign how he did not.

He also has never stated the approximate roster size, it could be 400 for all we know

Edit: oh yes and to not derail the thread, I think clones are absolutely fine
1.Roy =/= Marth
2. Ganon =/= Falcon

clones like pichu and Doc who are essentially the character with single move modification should be alterred or removed. Clones are fine.

 

[PwnyRide]

You have to remember however, that the team is supposedly much bigger than Melee's.

You make a good point. So only under my assumptions, essentially it should take around (sort of leaning to the longer side though) the same time to complete and polish Brawl if the team is larger.

 

[The Kirby Kong]

yay for clones.

 

[MR333]

i think sakurai has the ability to make 40+ characters w/ original movesets.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

If you think characters are everything, you're playing the wrong game.

 

[Big-Cat]

If you think characters are everything, you're playing the wrong game.

While they are not everything, they are the most important aspect. Remember, SSB is about a bunch of videogame characters beating the crap out of each other.

 

[PITforREV]

If you can have 4 clones or 1 unique movesetted character, I'd take the 4 clones, they play differently enough and you get more characters to choose from.

 

[The Noob Legend]

If you can have 4 clones or 1 unique movesetted character, I'd take the 4 clones, they play differently enough and you get more characters to choose from.

Yes, 4 unoriginal characters to choose from.
Wouldn't that bring down the potential that this game has, clones were made back in Melee because there wasn't enough development time as they had hoped.

I would rather have many unique characters, at least it adds variety to the list.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

While they are not everything, they are the most important aspect. Remember, SSB is about a bunch of videogame characters beating the crap out of each other.

Maybe, but that's not what makes the game Smash.

If it was, then this game would be called "a Nintendo version of Tekken."

Also thats why games such as "Kung fu Chaos" Failed.. All they had were characters, no originality at all.

 

[Tonyman]

To topic maker:

Do you mean what we'd like better, having the roster with original movesets, or that roster, with their original movesets, plus some clones?

Thats what i understood, and honestly i'd prefer having more characters even if they're clones, than no clones at all.

I not a clone-fan/hater, i just see them as other characters, with different characteristics

EDIT: so what im saying is: Clones, yay.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I have nothing against clones...just look @ Mario & Luigi or Fox & Falco. They were both clones but had different styles of gameplay.

IMO, clones =/= no clones. I don't care which way.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Clones are options. Some people take one option, some take the other. 3 of my 4 best Melee characters are clones.

 

[OrlanduEX]

I feel that the argument postulated in the OP is based on the thought that the Brawl roster won't get to 40 without clones, but I don't think that's the case.
Melee had clones because it was rushed. Brawl certainly isn't rushed, however, so I really don't think they're going to create any NEW clones (and no we can't say that Lucas is a clone of Ness. We don't know yet.)

So far we have 23 characters without clones, 12 of which are veterans. If all the non-clone veterans left were confirmed (which I think is quite possible), the roster would instantly jump to 30.

There were 6 clones in Melee. I think it's not unreasonable to assume that A few of these (Ganondorf, Falco) are very likely to get into Brawl based on their popularity. Let's say the other 4 are removed. That raises the roster to 32.

There are very likely some newcomers left that haven't been confirmed for Brawl. Add those to the roster and we get to the mid-thirties, and possibly 40. We really don't know exactly how big Brawl is going to be, but I don't think we should jump to the conclusion that the Brawl roster can't get to the high 30s or 40 without clones. Who knows? All the clones from Melee may be revamped into unique characters and added. Let's just wait 'till January 24th.

 

[falco999]

i'd rather have more characters in total than just original characters. i'm perfectly fine with clones because they are usually so different that they play in a completely different way from the original. for example i'd rather have falco in as a clone than not at all

 

[A2xA]

Well....

I think the game would be better with more characters, but it has to have more modes for it to be a game. And also for people who like extra stuff, I'm sure they're just trying to add a mode that would appeal to everyone. My opinion, take out some modes (like pointless stickers) and add maybe 1 or 2 more characters.

 

[ricydafrog]

u r so stupid (sorry but you are) even without clones I can tell you there will be over 30

If you wanna no if we prefer clones with more characters to no clones with less char. just ask. but u make it seem like u only think there will be like 25 characters in brawl

 

[finalark]

I don't mind Luigified clones, but I would much rather have a melee sized roster with no clones at all.

 

[Goopygoo]

I like clones. Why? Because, they don't detract from the game at all, they only add to it. I admit, some characters shouldn't be clones no matter what (I'm looking at you, Olimar) but otherwise I'm fine with them in.

 

[Spellman]

As long as there is a solid roster of original characters, and clones don't take away from production time that could be spent making original characters, then I'm for clones. It really depends though. I found Ganondorf was a really lazy clone (should have been an original character seeing as his stance in his own respective world is pretty high), while, Young Link and Dr. Mario seemed to make sense for me.

 

[Shiny Ivysaur]

I'd rather have 40 characters with 10 of them clones than the same 30 without the clones. Clones aren't negative characters. You're offering a choice between:
30 originals, 10 clones
and
30 originals

the 10 clones is the obvious choice.

edit:
@ricydafrog
First, gb2englishclass. This isn't GameFAQs, this isn't AIM, this isn't MySpace. And we don't speak greek so this isn't sparta either. Inles u cen tipe legablie, no one wil take u seriusly. We don liek to red posts we hav to trannslat, so u have 2 quit typing like this, stop bieng lazy and use the speel checker. 1 or 2 typos r fine, but @ least look like u made a effrot.

Second, LEARN TO READ.
He didn't say there would only be 25 characters. He was asking WHICH OPTION YOU WOULD LIKE BETTER. Noone likes a flamer, and noone likes a troll (Unless they have a good sense of humor). Stop with the ignorance and read AT LEAST the first post THOUROUGHLY.

 

[Boofer]

Yes, 4 unoriginal characters to choose from.
Wouldn't that bring down the potential that this game has, clones were made back in Melee because there wasn't enough development time as they had hoped.

I would rather have many unique characters, at least it adds variety to the list.

Did you not read what we've been saying all along? It wouldn't be 4 unoriginal characters. It would be 1 unique character and 3 clones. So you're saying you'd rather have ONLY the one unique character? When choosing the clones, you'd still get that original character man...I don't think you're understanding.

 

[suzuki brawl]

now that ness is back i don't know,but he and lucas aren't clones they semi clones

 

[aruby14]

ehh.. nothin against Roy or Doc Mario or falco fans but i want to see more unique chars rather than clones

 

[SinisterLizard]

If Ness AND Lucas are in and Fox AND Falco AND Wolf are all in...there are bound to be clones to some degree...

 

[SolidSonic]

I'm all for having some "Luigi-fied type clones", if it means we will get slightly more chars then we would have normally.

 

[suzuki brawl]

i have no problems with semi clones like mario and luigi

 

[DMAJohnson]

Melee had a mere six clones. It's not that big of a deal. If it means more characters to play as, then I'm all for clones.