Clones < Non-Clones

[Gundo]

Is this a good direction Brawl is heading into? SSB64 had no clones in it, but had few characters to choose from, all in which were pretty different from each other with the exclusion of luigi. SSBM pretty much doubled in size of characters, but every other character was a "clone" of another. With Brawl out in a little over a month, what are your opinions on the roster so far?

I know many are expecting 40 characters, or maybe mid-30s. But you gotta see that Brawl is about the same roster count as Melee, but all the characters are origional and have no clones. So Heres the question, would you really enjoy Brawl with 40 characters but having most as clones... or would you rather have the same count as Melee but have it so all the characters are different?

Because in the end, it would be pretty hard to think of 40, which most are from nintendo, having their own unique move set.

Clones, yay or nay?

(If you're looking for my thought on this subject of matter, I don't like clones. I rather have all different characters for a individual unique style of play.

 

[NDUDE]

First off, Luigi was a clone of Mario in SSB64. It wasn't until SSBM where they differentiated them further. Second, I'd rather have all 40 with MOSTLY individual movesets. I mean sure, a few moves could easily work with more than one character (like hammer swings for King DeDeDe and Ice Climbers, nothing drastic), but if Nintendo is imaginative enough to create such characters with their own identities, they can surely apply those identities into their movesets.

 

[SilverBlaze]

I'll take clones over less characters, to a point. I mean, I don't need a Dr. Mario clone, or something like that, but many clones handle much differently from their counterparts. Fox and Falco are prime examples of this, as are Marth and Roy. So while yes, these characters are clones, they are different to a degree.

 

[omfgomfg]

okay look no clones are better END

 

[Yosher]

I have to say both yay and nay on clones. I'd much rather have every character to have an original moveset. But if they want to add one or a few more characters at the very end, but don't have the time to make an original moveset, then they can make a clone, as long as it still differs enough from the original, as with Falcon and Ganondorf in Melee.

 

[omfgomfg]

luigi was soooooooooooooomewhat similar to mario in 64

 

[Coselm]

If I had to choose between 40 characters with 15 being clones and 25 individual characters, of course I would choose the 40!

I mean I'd rather have 40 unique characters, but I don't think anybody hates clones so much where they would just rather not have them in the game and have a significantly lower amount of characters.

 

[Superninjabreadman]

Clones can be better.. sometimes. Take Falco for example, hes a clone of Fox, but His Lazors are better.

But I'd Rather have no clones, but Alt Costumes are fine.

 

[shadenexus18]

I know many are expecting 40 characters, or maybe mid-30s. But you gotta see that Brawl is about the same roster count as Melee, but all the characters are origional and have no clones. So Heres the question, would you really enjoy Brawl with 40 characters but having most as clones... or would you rather have the same count as Melee but have it so all the characters are different?

Yes, 40 characters and some of them having "Luigified" movesets is good enough for me. I wouldn't complain one bit. Sounds like a good deal. Lets hope Sakurai does this for us.

 

[omfgomfg]

shade why do you actually WANT the clones in?

 

[shinodude]

awile back on nintendo brawl forum(before I found here) people reccomended tons of characters and its obvious that nintendo took some of there ideas. Most people who supported there character(the one they want in) gave a move set.


so if nintendo cant make up a move set for the newer then I pray they take the advice of the fans.

and they have had more then enough time to think up a new move set for the clones.


if they do have clones I think they will be last minute characters they decided to add just because they wanted that character in for what ever reason.

if they had clones in I wont complain but if more then a 3rd of them are clones I will be upset =/

 

[Aurora Jenny]

omfgomfg, please drop it. This particular argument has been driven into the ground repeatedly in another topic. But just so this post is on topic.. I agree with SilverBlaze and Yoshi. Clones are not a good thing, but what they did with Falcon/Ganondorf, Fox/Falco, and Marth/Roy is pretty interesting. They share the same moves, but their specs are completely different so if you try to handle them the same way... you're going to get cooked. If there's going to be characters with similar moves... I'd prefer to see them with different dynamics in stats and execution.

 

[Boofer]

shade why do you actually WANT the clones in?

Now, to be clear, everyone would prefer that all of the characters had their own movesets. However, most people wouldn't mind clones for the simple fact that it would mean more characters. Think about it. Would you rather have the original 25, or would you like the original 25 PLUS the clones? That's basically what the thread is asking.

Look at it like this. Would you prefer melee as it is, or Melee without Ganondorf, Falco, Young Link, Dr. Mario, Roy, and Pichu?

 

[shadenexus18]

shade why do you actually WANT the clones in?

Because bro the more the merrier. I know good and well Sakurai and his development team isn't capable of adding all 40 characters without them having some sort of clonage attributes. It's just not possible.

 

[Gundo]

Now, to be clear, everyone would prefer that all of the characters had their own movesets. However, most people wouldn't mind clones for the simple fact that it would mean more characters. Think about it. Would you rather have the original 25, or would you like the original 25 PLUS the clones? That's basically what the thread is asking.

Look at it like this. Would you prefer melee as it is, or Melee without Ganondorf, Falco, Young Link, Dr. Mario, Roy, and Pichu?

without the clones in SSBM, there wouldnt be 25, there will be more like 13ish.

 

[Gamer2774]

didn't sakurai say that there would be no clones in SSBB?

 

[Kips]

As long as unique characters get their fair share of slots, I wouldn't mind clones being in. Their subtle differences make gameplay interesting and unique, as well as more of a challenge. All I can pray for is that there is NO Mrs. Game and Watch. Knowing his wacky moveset, I wonder what kind of moves she'd have...

 

[Boofer]

without the clones in SSBM, there wouldnt be 25, there will be more like 13ish.

Without the clones in Melee, we'd have 20 characters, not 13. But that's not the point. The point is that most people would rather have more characters, period.

 

[Gundo]

didn't sakurai say that there would be no clones in SSBB?

He did. this is why I bring this topic up, because so far theres only about 23 characters and I believe its the starting roster, but I know alot of people that want 35-40ish characters in Brawl.

 

[kunai_abuser]

Clones are good filler, that's that.

 

[shadenexus18]

without the clones in SSBM, there wouldnt be 25, there will be more like 13ish.

If that was the case, then man just forget that crap! I wouldn't have been playing it all of these years.

 

[Gamer2774]

He did. this is why I bring this topic up, because so far theres only about 23 characters and I believe its the starting roster, but I know alot of people that want 35-40ish characters in Brawl.

didn't sakurai also say he is going to have 40 characters in Brawl or somewhere around there?
correct me if I am wrong

 

[HarryTheChin]

But the clones like G-Dorf, Falco, or maybe even Marth might return with different movesets.

 

[PowerBomb]

He did. this is why I bring this topic up, because so far theres only about 23 characters and I believe its the starting roster, but I know alot of people that want 35-40ish characters in Brawl.

35-40ish? People are starting to ask to much of nintendo in my opinion. i'd rather non-clones over clones, unless they can make the clones a little more... "different", like Luigi.

 

[Boofer]

He did. this is why I bring this topic up, because so far theres only about 23 characters and I believe its the starting roster, but I know alot of people that want 35-40ish characters in Brawl.

Can you prove that he said there wouldn't be anymore clones? This is a big rumor, and I don't recall ever reading this in SamuraiPanda's translation thread.

Also, there could easily be 35 characters, given a starting roster in the low twenties. Think about it. Melee: 14 starters, 11 unlockables. Is it so hard to believe that we could have 20 starters and 15 unlockables?

 

[Gundo]

didn't sakurai also say he is going to have 40 characters in Brawl or somewhere around there?
correct me if I am wrong

He first stated that it would be 30+. He didn't say if it was including locked characters or not. but he did say 30+ (more then Melee)

 

[Big-Cat]

He did. this is why I bring this topic up, because so far theres only about 23 characters and I believe its the starting roster, but I know alot of people that want 35-40ish characters in Brawl.

He never did. Check the journals and neither model swaps nor clones are ever mentioned. All that was said is that all the characters returning would have significant changes made to thier movesets. People took this as that the Melee clones would no longer be clones. Then, people started to take this as no new clones as well.

I'm alright with clones as long as they're not like Dr. Mario. Young Link, Pichu, and the others are fine by me. To tell you the truth, I started supporting these guys because of my most wanted character, Kumatora, has the best chances of being playable as a clone. Prior to that, I was kinda anti-clone until I read the journal again.

Besides, if your wanted character was subject to being an AT or a clone, you'd pick "clone" because it's the lesser of two evils and that character is still playable. Besides, as mentioned earlier, the subtle changes can mean alot.

didn't sakurai also say he is going to have 40 characters in Brawl or somewhere around there?
correct me if I am wrong

Yes, you're wrong. He never said anything like that.

 

[Boofer]

didn't sakurai also say he is going to have 40 characters in Brawl or somewhere around there?
correct me if I am wrong

I can't recall that he ever estimated the amount of characters in the game. Believe me, nobody would have forgotten if he did in fact say there would be 40 characters.

But the clones like G-Dorf, Falco, or maybe even Marth might return with different movesets.

There's no need for Marth to have a different moveset, as he is NOT a clone. He's nothing like Ike, and Roy was a clone of HIM.

35-40ish? People are starting to ask to much of nintendo in my opinion. i'd rather non-clones over clones, unless they can make the clones a little more... "different", like Luigi.

The question is "clones over nothing at all," not "clones over non-clones." Obviously most people would prefer unique movesets over cloned movesets. And 35-40 is more realistic than you think.

He first stated that it would be 30+. He didn't say if it was including locked characters or not. but he did say 30+ (more then Melee)

Surely you have proof of these allegations. When did he say this?

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Theres no need for clones to be in a 40 character roster, if Nintendo were able to make unique characters like Captain Olimar and Chibi robo plus countless others then I don't see why theres a need to make them similar to any other character if they're in brawl.

Characters that would definitly have a unique moveset if they were in brawl:

Captain Olimar (I don't think any other character can command pikmin can they?)

Chibi robo (Being a robot he should have unique moves since there is very few robots that could be in brawl)

Sukapon (I don't think any other character can throw they're heads can they?)

Midna (I've never seen any other character make a hand come out of thier headpiece did you? if she has wolf link she would have an even more unique moveset)

Ridley (I don't need to be a metroid fan to know he'd be nothing like charizard)

Sora (Seen any other characters running around with keyblades? I sure haven't)


That's just a small list too, if Nintendo and Sakurai really put there minds to it no character will be a clone of any other character.

 

[Big-Cat]

For the ones expecting a 40-sized roster, you might be setting your expectations too low. After all, 23 characters confirmed. Include the unconfirmed vets but take out Dr. Mario, Ness, Pichu, and Roy, that's 32. Add the likely AC character, Krystal, Ridley, Olimar, one more third party character, and maybe a DS character,that's 38 right there.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I'm hoping for 50 characters but then some people say "you're asking too much of nintendo" or "asking for 50 charcters is being greedy".

I don't know what to make of it really.

I know there could easily be 50 characters in brawl but then I'm told by some people how 50 is a crazy number and how 50 is so high you'd end up getting generic enimies in the roster. Which are all not true but they continue to believe that.

I still strongly believe there could be around 50 characters, but why does hardly anyone else seem to agree with me?

 

[susu_atari]

If there were only going to be 25 characters, but no clones, surely that would be the same as having 40 characters with some clones? I mean, if we had clones, and 40 characters total, surely there would be about 25-30 original characters anyway?

 

[Big-Cat]

I still strongly believe there could be around 50 characters, but why does hardly anyone else seem to agree with me?

People keep forgetting characters from other series like Golden Sun, Pikmin, MOTHER, Custom Robo, etc.

 

[Azura]

I would definitely rather have clones. They all play sufficiently different to their counterparts, so I don't mind their moves being similar at all. I value them all just as much as the completely original characters, Doc excluded. Would've been funny if he was as slow and powerful as Ganon.

 

[Rhubarbo]

You know, if adding clones would have more series represented, and more characters represented, I would be all for it. It all depends what they did. Since Brawl had 2 years+ of development time, I'd assume that all deserving characters would have a unique moveset. I'd expect 36-42 unique characters. If their are less, I'd say that Brawl turned out to be a slight disappointment.

 

[gigasteve]

MK Armeggedon had MORE characters, and each had their own movesets (I think). Smackdown vs. Raw had a similar situation. So at least 40 characters with different movesets isn't that difficult (especially since this is Brawl we're talking about).

 

[shadenexus18]

I still strongly believe there could be around 50 characters, but why does hardly anyone else seem to agree with me?

Mmmm...nahhh. If there would be around 50 then one would think there'd be a heck (I don't curse on Sundays) of alot of more character updates. No....Sakurai wouldn't be keeping 30 + characters a secret from us....would he?

 

[Big-Cat]

Mmmm...nahhh. If there would be around 50 then one would think there'd be a heck (I don't curse on Sundays) of alot of more character updates. No....Sakurai wouldn't be keeping 30 + characters a secret from us....would he?

Maybe. Most of the characters are going to be unlocked via the Subspace Emissary and that's supposedly a 10 hour mode. Also, consider that Captain Falcon, Luigi, Jigglypuff, and maybe Ganondorf will probably be default characters.

 

[Puffs]

All they need to do is look past the "most involved and popular characters" thing and start really reaching into each franchise for fighters. I wanna see Wart vs Skull Kid vs Paint Roller vs Kanden.

 

[shadenexus18]

Maybe. Most of the characters are going to be unlocked via the Subspace Emissary and that's supposedly a 10 hour mode. Also, consider that Captain Falcon, Luigi, Jigglypuff, and maybe Ganondorf will probably be default characters.

Interesting. Where did you hear that the adventure mode was going to be 10 hours?

And my theory stands. Falcon, Ganon, and meh....I dunno if Jiggs if even coming back. Anyway, those two are secret characters. Wanna know how I know? Because not a SINGLE hidden character from 64 or Melee have been revealed. As a result, I highly doubt the roster will reach 50, but it's possible.