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Cinder's Doc...a work in progress *cough*

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Woooah... full hop nair against Link is a nono... there was a ton of time for him to punish you with a nair/Spin Attack/uair/whatever.

Don't hold someone in a grab for that long, especially not Link and his god-awful Boomerang. Nice jab grab though.

It's good to get a grab, but be aware of your other options too. If he's falling at you with a nair, uair or utilt him instead, don't go for a grab that you're probably not going to get.

Yeah, you're eating a lot more pogos than you should be, mostly because of grabs and not being able to read your opponent correctly. Play it safe if you have to, wavedash out of his range, then go back in. The pogo - even L-canceled - has enough lag to be punished, easily.

Don't use your double jump near the edge. Link - and a lot of characters - outprioritize you, and your recovery is not good enough to let you go without your second jump.

You should use your pills more. Use them to help your approach or to force his approach. Link can pretty much jab you out of every aerial approach you have.

When you're down in stock, go for the gimp kill. It's what Doc does best. Instead of dthrowing for a combo, just throw him off the stage and go for a bair gimp.

Ouch. Learn to sweetspot too.

You really need to edgeguard more aggressively. It looks like Twiddle's only dying 'cause he can't hit the hookshot.

Don't dash attack so much. Don't grab so much, he's totally ****** you for it.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
First and foremost, you try to nair waaaaay too much. You have more approaches than nair. Hell, EVERY OTHER APPROACH YOU HAVE IS BETTER THAN NAIR. (except u.air) Elven says dont FH nair. There's nothing wrong with FH nair, there's something wrong with FH non-fastfalled nair as the first thing you do when link is just sitting there watching you float in the air.

And dont try to come down through somebody with a nair. First, you dont want to come down through somebody with a nair, you want to come down with a d.air. Second, you dont want to always come down through somebody because it's just safer not to. And Third, of all people you dont want to come down through, you definately dont want to try to come down through link and his disjointed hitbox of justice.

Number 2, why in gods name would you u.throw somebody who's not a fastfaller? I mean, i guess you could follow up with an u.air or something, but they're not going to just casually fall into an u.smash. >.>

Speaking of grabs, you need to be faster with your action afterwards. If you're going to d.throw u.smash (which you did, adn didnt work) you need to do it faster, if you're going to chaingrab, you have to be faster on the regrab. BTW, JC grabs are your friend.

dont stand around trying to spotdodge spam. MOVE. If you dont know how to cape bombs (which yes, there actually is a method to it), MOVE. Dont try to stand there and spotdodge everything, you're going to get hit, and comboed.

Last big thing i have to say.
spam more.
you have pills. pills arent exactly the best projectile in the game (actually, they're one of the worst ones) BUT THEY'RE STILL ****ING GOOD CAUSE THEY'RE A PROJECTILE, USE THEM ****S. You dont even really have to pill approach, just USE THEM TO KEEP PEOPLE WHO ARE FAR AWAY FROM YOU IN CHECK, AND THEN STOP WHEN THEY START CLOSING.

____

That is all for now
 

elvenarrow3000

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
3,308
Argh. Leave the original audio in. It's nice to listen to, and it helps to catch stuff that I otherwise wouldn't notice (imperfect wavedashes and such).

If he's above you on a platform, he's at a disadvantage, because you can attack him and he can't attack you, right? That means you shouldn't even the playing field and make it so that he can attack you. What I mean is short hop uairs at him, don't full jump them.

Good waveland, but after you do it and he whiffs an attack, don't shield. In fact, don't shield at all after stuff like that. He's Mario, not Marth, he's not going to be able to hit you after a waveland when you're spaced like that, and he would not have fired a fireball if you were coming down at him like that unless he's an idiot. That means you're essentially safe, so wavedash/dash in after he whiffs something and punish him. Shielding is just unnecessary lag.

You're missing some L-cancels, so work on that. I'd work on the approach too, you're using some less than ideal approaches (like the dash attack) and neglecting pills in the approach. You can ask some of the other Doc boarders for good approaches (they'll probably say stuff like JC grabs or bairs or something) because I honestly don't know how to approach as Doc either, other than spamming pills and running after them.

After you throw a pill, don't just sit there. Run after if it you think it'll connect or force them into a shield, or throw another one.

At 1:06, there really was nothing you could ledgehop to hit him. So don't try it. Ledgedash or something instead, otherwise you're just asking for an fsmash.

You have these weird pauses after a lot of things where you either spot dodge, shield or stand still. Rely on your hunch and go for it. That's what makes mindgames work - confidence that they will work. If you play a purely reactionary game, you'll always be one step behind, unless you have retardedly good reflexes.

Don't dtilt. Just don't.

Okay, as far as movement goes... you're doing it too much. Yes it's cool to short hop and fly over your opponent or wavedash through them, but you're not attacking when you do it, nor are you invincible, so you're just opening yourself up to attacks.

Speaking of not attacking, the majority of your attacks seem either too early (which will get you shield grabbed) or too late (which will get you pre-empted). So work on the timing.

Your jabs are spaced out kinda far and your grabs aren't connecting. If you notice that happening, just jab dsmash instead.
 

Omni_Smash

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
175
I'm a pretty competant Mario and I'd like to play you and your freind sometime, you're obviously good at wavedashing and you are trying to use it well but the biggest thing I had with that match was that I didn't see any serious short hop back air, psuedo wall of pain technique. Sure it might not always work but I saw more than a handful of opportunites for both Doc and Mario to throw in a back air.

Doc should be forward airing more, follow the pill and go for forward or back air opening (I'm mostly an air gamer). Also blanket the recovery, and mario should cape the recovery not try to go for forward airs unless they are sure they will hit (I make the same mistake often). Heck, ledge hog when they are coming back it is safer, and if you are feeling dangerous go for a ledge hopped back air.
 

Sans Glutin

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
759
Location
Yesterday
Pills are not one of the worst projectiles, they are one of the best..you should full hop them and waveland forward for approaches and back for more defensive options. They are soooo good
 

Oracle

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
3,471
Location
Dallas, TX
IMO, if you're close to the edge, like you were, backthrow and edgeguard over up throw, especially when there's a platform there.

Also, NEEDS MOAR UP TILT AND UAIR
 
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