Chimp Charts: The Diddy Kong Matchup Thread - Seeking New Ownership

[FiXalaS]

I'd like to know what Diddy players think of Pit.

 

[Wintropy]

I'd like to know what Diddy players think of Pit.

Ibid.

Would be nice to get critique from other players, and such.

 

[Benzerade]

Versus pit you you need to be careful while recovering as he can easily nair near the ledge when you up b and it will knock you out of your up b and youll most likely die. If its a pit that likes to camp a lot try to pick a smaller stage and just aproach while perfect shielding his projectiles and try to read how he gets away from you. I Know its ot much but thats ll i have im not gonna preten like i have extensive knowledge on this mu

 

[MiloniVanili]

as a former pit player and a current diddy player

diddy dumps on pit, as long as you dont let him read you with a side B and you know how to DI out of his F smash he will never be able to kill you. you out camp him if he tries playing defensively. the only thing you have to worry about is him nairing your up B, so my best advice would be to recover with monkey flip when possible/save jump as long as possible

 

[Dre89]

as a former pit player and a current diddy player

diddy dumps on pit, as long as you dont let him read you with a side B and you know how to DI out of his F smash he will never be able to kill you. you out camp him if he tries playing defensively. the only thing you have to worry about is him nairing your up B, so my best advice would be to recover with monkey flip when possible/save jump as long as possible

How does Diddy outcamp Pit if Pit plays defensively with arrows

 

[wildvine47]

Sorry for the delay guys (was busy all of yesterday without internet access), but I've now gone and added relevant Pit Match-up Info to the OP.

As well, by the marvels of RNG, King Dedede has been selected for discussion! If you've got match experience with the big king himself, please chime in this week. Ideally we'd have a number of people from both sides of the matchup come in with advice, so please don't be shy, other Diddy mains.

 

[Benzerade]

as a former pit player and a current diddy player

diddy dumps on pit, as long as you dont let him read you with a side B and you know how to DI out of his F smash he will never be able to kill you. you out camp him if he tries playing defensively. the only thing you have to worry about is him nairing your up B, so my best advice would be to recover with monkey flip when possible/save jump as long as possible

how do you di out of his f-smash?

 

[MiloniVanili]

How does Diddy outcamp Pit if Pit plays defensively with arrows

Play defensively with peanuts and bananas. pits arrows are not a very good projectile, you have plenty of time to react to the start up animation to power shield or jump over it and the arrows have a ton of end lag that you can punish if he uses it at mid range

how do you di out of his f-smash?

up. the second hit wont connect if you are at 100+ especially if he has rage

 

[SalsaSavant]

D3 player here.
This is no customs.


This is a match that is strongly in Diddy's favor, but isn't unwinnable for D3. A good D3 will use his range and few fast moves to his advantage, particularly his Ftilt. Diddy will likely rush in and do more than D3 can, but D3 can do decent damage and annoy Diddy.

D3 has more survivability than Diddy, so remember that. Even if Diddy does significantly more damage, D3 is so heavy and has such a great recovery, it's almost like you're doing less damage than you actually are.

Offstage is the only place D3 has the advantage, and a good D3 will try to force the fight there. His Fair and Dair are great options for forcing Diddy too far offtage to recover, though Monkey flip is something to be afraid of.

Gorodo's are D3's bread and butter, but Diddy shuts them down. His fast moves and his peanuts easily repel them no matter what way they are tilted, and will often cause even Gorodo's that would otherwise be safe to go back at him.

Overall, Diddy's rushdown and deadly combos give D3 too much issue, and he shuts down Gordos, which are D3's bread and butter. A patient Dedede can win this, but it's an uphill battle through and through.

 

[Dre89]

Play defensively with peanuts and bananas. pits arrows are not a very good projectile, you have plenty of time to react to the start up animation to power shield or jump over it and the arrows have a ton of end lag that you can punish if he uses it at mid range


up. the second hit wont connect if you are at 100+ especially if he has rage

Pretty sure peanuts are just as laggy as arrows if not laggier

Also I think you can only punish arrows with nanas if you powershield one at mid range

Neither can camp super hard but Pit forces Diddy to approach, not the other way around

 

[MiloniVanili]

Pretty sure peanuts are just as laggy as arrows if not laggier

Also I think you can only punish arrows with nanas if you powershield one at mid range

Neither can camp super hard but Pit forces Diddy to approach, not the other way around

pit doesnt force anyone to approach. the arrows are really a truly bad projectile that have way too much end lag for them to safely use it without you punishing it. a simple short hop air dodge then just running at them and grabbing them works from just about anywhere short of max range

 

[Crackle]

pit doesnt force anyone to approach. the arrows are really a truly bad projectile that have way too much end lag for them to safely use it without you punishing it. a simple short hop air dodge then just running at them and grabbing them works from just about anywhere short of max range

Two things:

(1) If you jump and airdodge then pit will just hold the arrow and hit you upon landing because there are guaranteed frames to land it there

(2) arrows go through peanuts and hit you for using them. Pit can jab1 to destroy bananas almost laglessly

The key to this matchup imo is diddy's fair. It outright beats pit's neutral game for the most part. I have literally only been able to punish a well placed diddy fair by shorthop airdodging into it and landing with a jab combo. It is pathetic how that move wins the matchup.

 

[MioTinto]

As a D3 main, let me tell you, the odds are in your favor. Our large frame and poor aerial mobility leaves us extremely vulnerable to hoo ha, and your neutral game reduces our Gordo Throw, a crucial pressuring tool and the staple of our mind game, to an edgeguarding tool. You might have issues dealing with an edgeguarding D3, but other than that, the matchup is a breeze for the kong.
My final verdict for a customs free matchup:
80:20

 

[Daz Popert]

If anyone wants to check this out I made a google doc where you can comment the match-ups and I can organize it depending on everyone's votes
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_dgZvX4jpmG0WONRiNEsJ26UEN8ReJjewXHXRmL04cw/edit?usp=sharing

 

[BnW Lock]

Diddy is the best and top tier if anyone can't beat another character with Diddy then they aren't good Diddy players plain n simple

 

[Dre89]

Diddy is the best and top tier if anyone can't beat another character with Diddy then they aren't good Diddy players plain n simple

So basically Denti's Diddy isn't good because he lost to Zero's Falcon

Just because he's the best doesn't mean he doesn't have matchups he doesn't struggle with

Opinions like this are incredibly simplistic and aren't founded in a deep understanding of the game

 

[SalsaSavant]

Diddy is the best and top tier if anyone can't beat another character with Diddy then they aren't good Diddy players plain n simple

Not really.

If this was Meta Knight, I'd say you were something close to right. But here, we have matchups, some of which may not be in his favor.

For example, I've seen people say that a good Mii Swordfighter may be able to stop most of Diddy's tricks, and it may possibly be a fair match or even in Mii Swordfighters favor slightly. This is due to his disjoints and his excellent Gale Strike. The meta hasn't settled, but I think the fact that the lowest tier character is a possible counter for the highest makes it clear that tier list aren't representative of linear power, but rather general power that varies based on the scenario.

 

[Dre89]

Not really.

If this was Meta Knight, I'd say you were something close to right. But here, we have matchups, some of which may not be in his favor.

For example, I've seen people say that a good Mii Swordfighter may be able to stop most of Diddy's tricks, and it may possibly be a fair match or even in Mii Swordfighters favor slightly. This is due to his disjoints and his excellent Gale Strike. The meta hasn't settled, but I think the fact that the lowest tier character is a possible counter for the highest makes it clear that tier list aren't representative of linear power, but rather general power that varies based on the scenario.

Who said swordfighter does well against Diddy? Diddy seems way too mobile for swordfighter. He has rough MUs, but swordfighter doesn't strike me as one of them.

 

[SalsaSavant]

Who said swordfighter does well against Diddy? Diddy seems way too mobile for swordfighter. He has rough MUs, but swordfighter doesn't strike me as one of them.

IDK. I don't play Swordfighter, but that's what they're saying on the Swordfighter boards.
Probably exaggerating, but I can see how certain aspects can annoy Diddy. Particularly Gale Strike.

 

[wildvine47]

Alright everyone, Dedede week has come to a close. Diddy mains, I know you guys are here! Please pop in and give your input on the weekly matchups, as this week it was only Dedede's that contributed. If you've got info on a matchup, please chime in. There's people who could come to this thread looking for help, and I'd like for them to be able to find it.

However, our RNG machine has now chosen Luigi as this week's hoo-hah sacrifice. Please drop your Luigi knowledge on us, and discuss how you think we fare against him.

 

[Dre89]

Alright everyone, Dedede week has come to a close. Diddy mains, I know you guys are here! Please pop in and give your input on the weekly matchups, as this week it was only Dedede's that contributed. If you've got info on a matchup, please chime in. There's people who could come to this thread looking for help, and I'd like for them to be able to find it.

However, our RNG machine has now chosen Luigi as this week's hoo-hah sacrifice. Please drop your Luigi knowledge on us, and discuss how you think we fare against him.

Don't know much about the matchup, but I feel like fair would shut Luigi down. He can't contest it and he doesn't seem mobile enough on the ground to punish the landings.

 

[TriTails]

Can't Luigi just crouch under the SH F-airs? Even if he can't, the invincible head U-smash is at your service.

Oh, and if Luigi has the banana, run for the love of whatever you believe in and don't get tripped, as his punish game is among the best.

 

[Dre89]

Can't Luigi just crouch under the SH F-airs? Even if he can't, the invincible head U-smash is at your service.

He might be able to avoid it but it still beats out most of his options. Upsmash may work but it's not like it's a BnB that you can use all the time. Main this is that it beats out his bair, which is his BnB tool. May beat his nair too.

Oh, and if Luigi has the banana, run for the love of whatever you believe in and don't get tripped, as his punish game is among the best.

Or you can just SH fair to catch the nana whilst beating out most of his options with a nana in hand at the same time. Pretty sure the only thing he can do to punish it is backwards JC toss it at you (I don't know how much he slides when he JC tosses).

Also if you're so scared about conceding nanas you can just cook them with a dthrow or a ZAC (z-drop aerial catch).

 

[TriTails]

Eh, I use the U-smash all the time. It is especially useful if your enemies won't stop flying spamming aerials. I use it often, as it also has low lag (Sadly, not safe on shield), meaning it can be hard for Diddy to punish (How many frames of landing lag F-air has? Does it autocancels?).

Some Luigi players also had found crawling to be especially useful against Diddy, he MF, he fly past you, free grab. He SH F-air, he kicks the air above your head, free JC U-smash.

I take that back, a good Luigi won't just throw the bananas back at you.

That reminds me. J. Miller had come to our boards and gave a say about Diddy vs Luigi. Here are what he said:

http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi-match-up-discussion-thread.382918/page-3#post-18429379

And

http://smashboards.com/threads/luigi-match-up-discussion-thread.382918/page-4#post-18460279

Check out the other posts too! Maybe we can share our knowledge about this, and get the MU straight. I have seen people saying Luigi is a counter to Diddy when it really isn't.

 

[Mx|Edd]

I think that this MU is one of the hardest for Diddy, specially with Luigi's Fireball being able to bet our projectiles (Peanut and Banana).

The best thing as a Diddy we can do in this match is to keep the pressure in Luigi, mainly when he is above us due his poor air-mobility but we must be careful with his Nair and Cyclone that can beat a bad timed Uair.

 

[BnW Lock]

So basically Denti's Diddy isn't good because he lost to Zero's Falcon

yeah pretty much

Zero isnt even that good like **** i could beat him so easy

 

[warriorman222]

yeah pretty much

Zero isnt even that good like **** i could beat him so easy

"He lost to someone, therefore he sucks!" If I lost to a little kid via unknown means, do I automatically suck? Even if I put down the controller and waited a good 10 minutes to lose my 2 lives, while we were on 75m?

 

[wildvine47]

Alright, Luigi week has concluded. Thanks to all who weighed in.

Next up, Link has been selected by our friendly neighborhood RNG machine. Please discuss the Link matchup and how you think us Diddies fair against him.

 

[Whoophee]

Why is the matchup of the week decided by RNG, wouldn't it be smarter to discuss more popular/stronger characters first?
A voting system could go a long way seeing as people generally would vote for matchups they either struggle with or have input on.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah just picking better characters or characters that a lot of people want to discuss makes more sense

 

[wildvine47]

Switching to voting system is fine by me. The fact that literally no one decided to speak on the Link match-up is proof enough that RNG's probably not the best method. For that reason, I'll let Link run for a few more days, and am officially opening the floor to voting for who you'd like to see as the next weekly matchup.

So, if you've got it, share your Link experience (so I have something to put in the OP for him if nothing else), and place a vote for whom you'd like to see be the next discussed matchup.

 

[Fishaman P]

NO CUSTOMS
I've been playing my friend, a Rosalina, extensively as Diddy, Marth, and Ganon, and Diddy is by far the best matchup.
I'd put it as 60-40 to 65-35 in Diddy's favor.

One huge game-changer is Monkey Flip. The air grab is free damage against the inevitable shield, and the kick can take out Luma from practically the middle of every stage, in addition to being very difficult to punish. Rosalina isn't particularly able to defend herself against a highly aggressive Diddy. Rosalina has trouble getting down from a juggle, and her recovery can be easily punished. On the other hand, Diddy basically gets back for free; from low, he can curve Rock Barrel onto either ledge or even directly into Rosalina. Recovering high, Monkey Flip is absolutely free when combined with an optional cancelled B Reverse Popgun.

Bananas are a bad idea, Luma sponges them every time if they hit, and are waiting there for Rosalina if they don't. The Peanut Popgun isn't particularly useful as anything but a mindgame, but from across the stage it doesn't do anything negative either.

 

[LiL.Will]

Since the patch has came I honestly feel that we should restart on our MU's as some might have drastically changed. I feel that we should start on the more "popular" characters first so every Diddy player reading will quickly be tourney ready for the common MUs then work our way down the less noticed tourney characters.

 

[Mx|Edd]

Since the patch has came I honestly feel that we should restart on our MU's as some might have drastically changed. I feel that we should start on the more "popular" characters first so every Diddy player reading will quickly be tourney ready for the common MUs then work our way down the less noticed tourney characters.

I'm with you, we need to review the MUs specially of the tourney characters (Sheik, Rosalina, Sonic, ZSS, Ness, Luigi, Falcon, Brawler, Yoshi, Pit).

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Some post patch Diddy vs. Link thoughts while were still doing this.

Losing killing power in this kind of matchup is going to hurt more than usual, as Diddy Kong has to use bananas and peanuts to get in on Link enough times to combo him into kill range before he takes enough projectile and brick wall damage to be killed himself. Less KB and damage means he's going to have to get in successfully several more times to kill a heavy target like Link outright.

Link's great projectile wall and powerful spacing disjoints make this difficult, but Diddy has tools to pressure link from the mid range too, such as peanuts, b-reverse banana pluck traps, fair, and monkey flip. And once Diddy does get a grab or knock Link into the air hes gonna take like 40% to the new combos due to the lower knockback. And Diddy still has better frame data and can gimp Link hard.

I'm saying closer to even but Diddy still wins post patch. 55-45 or 6-4 Diddy.

 

[fource]

Since the patch has came I honestly feel that we should restart on our MU's as some might have drastically changed. I feel that we should start on the more "popular" characters first so every Diddy player reading will quickly be tourney ready for the common MUs then work our way down the less noticed tourney characters.

It's been a long time since I've been on the boards. Started going back to tournaments the past 2-3 months and I've been able to place top 3 at all of the ones I've entered, so I thought I'd be able to contribute to the boards again.

Didn't expect us to be this far behind on match discussions though. Anyway, Lil Will is right, we really do need to reset and prioritize more important match ups. Starting with Sheik, Rosa, or Sonic. Imo, those are the 3 that require the most match up specific knowledge.

Also, having this thread for a consolidated match up collection is great, but we should be providing more than just links to posts. We should be generating a link to that match up thread that lists how to play each part of the match up; talk about our best ground and aerial options, when it's safe/unsafe to approach, opposing frame data that may catch us off guard, etc.

Finally, in the spoiler tags, we need to decide on a specific match up difficulty ie. 50-50 for Diddy vs Diddy.

 

[Ffamran]

Hello Didd- Hey! Wait a minute! I'm supposed to drag you over to the Falco board! Hands on my jacket!

The Falco board started their Diddy matchup thread and would like the know the secrets of Diddy's Monkey Fist. It's ongoing, so drop in whenever. Link to the discussion: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-24-diddy-kong-rocket-boosters.399492/.

Edit: Forgot about this: if you want to fight some Falco players, drop by here: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/ or the Falco Social: http://smashboards.com/threads/falc...er-the-air-and-the-points-dont-matter.379756/.

 

[FSK]

Link main here.

Before the patch Diddy was one of Link's worst matchups, at least 70:30 (I'm being conservative). After patch Diddy received some nerfs but he's still a good char. Link got destroyed in the patch so its probably more like 80:20 now.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Link main here.

Before the patch Diddy was one of Link's worst matchups, at least 70:30 (I'm being conservative). After patch Diddy received some nerfs but he's still a good char. Link got destroyed in the patch so its probably more like 80:20 now.

Is the jab cancel really that important? Diddy is still a great character but the nerfs are going make most trainwreck matchups manageable at least. Diddy now has to do significantly more work. I still say he wins, but 8-2?

 

[FSK]

Is the jab cancel really that important?

The jab 1 cancel was our whole close-quarter game. Jab 1 led to grab, dsmash and utilt and was our only safe ground move to pressure shields.

Oh and for how to play the matchup,

watch KirinBlaze vs Player-1 from Apex. That is how you play against Link as Diddy.