charizardbro
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2015
- Messages
- 163
Hello and welcome!
Frame Trap Rating System
Donkey Kong
Rating | String | Percents | Notes
Combo | Sour SH Nair -> Jabs | 40% - 89% | DK starts suffering hard knockback at from Nair 60%. Land the nair with Charizard's head and neck inside of DK's character model for the combo to register at the outsides of the percent range. Move towards DK throughout Nair too. DI away?
Combo | Sour Reverse SH Nair -> Tipper Ftilt | 76% - 101% | Use upward angled Ftilt. Lower couple of percent seem to sourspot Ftilt occasionally. Move towards DK throughout Nair . Percents for DI away?
Combo | Utilt -> Utilt | 19% - 41% | Just use Utilt twice, one right after another. If they air dodge between around 10% and 18%, they also get punished on landing. Last few percent on the upper range may be effected by DI.
Combo | Utilt -> Usmash | 13% - 30% | Very similar to Utilt -> Utilt except sometimes the Usmash won't connect all of the hits or any of the hits if they aren't right above you at the upper end of the percent range (about 26%-30%). Percents for DI away?
Combo | Utilt -> Uair | 49% - 66% | Buffer the Uair out of jump squat for the very lower end of the range. Buffer the Uair once your are already in the air for the very upper end. You can still frame trap with it outside of the range but it won't be a combo.
Combo | Dair -> Utilt | 67% - 85% | You can frame trap with other stuff way earlier and later but the combo count won't register. Land the Dair as while you are as close to the ground as possible to pull this off. Can we frame cancel/lag synch this?
Combo | Dair -> Fly | 83% - 115% |You can also frame trap with Uair but no combo unfortunately
. This will kill at the higher percent range (no DI). This will be tricky to land against a human player since they will DI left or right to avoid a simple fly followup but it's certainly possible. Last hit lands for the entire range.
Combo | Dair -> Uair | 91% - 120% | This will kill, especially if you have rage. It outdoes Dair -> Fly because it is easier to chase DI with. Fast fall Dair once you enter hitlag.
Combo | Uair -> Usmash | 14% - 36% | Use Uair on a grounded DK then followup with usmash. It can work as early as 14% but the timing is really hard. Fastfall it once you enter hitlag. Practice it at half speed. I can consistently get it to work starting at 25%.
Combo | Uair -> Uair | 53% - 67% | Very similar to Uair Usmash except you have to use Uair a second time. Make sure you don't accidentally JC Usmash instead.
Combo | Dthrow -> Uair | 1% - 130%* | Dash forward a little first for the upper percent range. True range is likely a little wider if you buffer Uair out of jump squat for the lower range. Red lightning starts at 112%, This can kill. DI away range?
Combo | Dthrow -> Fair | 0% - 145% | Double jump out of Dthrow and position yourself below and to the side of DK for it to connect at higher percents. Upper range is likely far lower with human DI. What is it?
Combo | Dthrow -> Usmash | 0% - 11% | Jump cancel Usmash to pull this off. The third hit won't register as a combo starting at 11%. All hits connect up until 29% but only the first 2 register as a combo.
Combo | Dthrow -> Nair | 0% - 110% | You can combo with the sweet spot starting at around 90%.
Combo | Bthrow -> Fair | 0% - 59% | Upper end of things uses the very edge of the claw hitbox. Timing is pretty strict above 55.
Combo | Uthrow -> Flare Blitz | 40% - 49% | You have to double jump first. I suspect Dragon Rush and possibly Blast Burn work too.
Combo | Uthrow -> Fair | 0-59% | You have to double jump first for the upper end of the range. You will land with lag if you don't double jump but that's what has to be done for the lower percents.
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Grab | 60%* - 110%* | No dash grab here unless they are on the very outside of your jab range. Be wary of quick aerials from heavies at higher percents not in this range I am not sure how well this works when heavies DI down and jab or DI up and use a quick aerial.
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Fly | 100%* - 170* | Being close to your opponent for the jabs will help a lot if they try to airdodge Fly. You should super armor through most of the quick aerials heavies can throw out. Fly will not connect if they are on the very outside of your jab range. How does this change with human DI? How much easier is this to air dodge as percents increase?
Great Frame Trap | Sour SH reverse Nair -> B reverse Flamethrower | 60%-120% | This will get at least a couple hits. It covers every option except tech away. It's best used toward the middle of the range. It's very safe on heavies. Can you jump out of it?
Good Frame Trap | Sour SH Nair -> Jabs | 0%* - 40% | Heavies with quick jabs may have a decent number of frames where they can jab you out of this at low percent. Go for the frame trap when you can outrange their jabs with your own. I would like to know how well this works when heavies DI down and shield though.
??? Frame Trap | Dthrow -> Nair -> Regrab | 0% - 30%* | Heavies with fast Nairs may be able to get out. How good is this frame trap against heavies? Nair doesn't give them that much hitstun.
??? Frame Trap | Reverse SH sour Nair -> Sweet Bair | 93% - 106% | This one is a little tricky. It's like the Nair to Ftilt combo except you have to do a SH Bair immediately out of jump squat. This means you have to really time it rather than mash Ftilt. Otherwise, they're very similar. Both percent limits will be lower with DI away. You can also catch people as they miss a tech with this at percents below 93% (no DI).
Captain Falcon
Rating | String | Percents | Notes
Combo | Sour SH Nair -> Jabs | 36% - 88% | Hard knockback from Nair starts at 54%.
Combo | Sour Reverse SH Nair -> Tipper Ftilt | 57% - 97% | None
Combo | Utilt -> Utilt | 17% - 44% | None
Combo | Utilt -> Usmash | 11% - 35% | They start to fall out of Usmash at 30%. It should consistently combo between 11% and 30% though.
Combo | Utilt -> Uair | 45% - 65% | None
Combo | Dair -> Utilt | 56% - 75% | None
Combo | Dair -> Fly | 73% - 103% | None
Combo | Dair -> Uair | 88% - 117% | None
Combo | Uair -> Uair | 44% - 64% | None
Combo | Uair -> Usmash | 20% - 36% | Starts to fall out after 32%
Combo | Dthrow -> Uair | 0% - 121% | None
Combo | Dthrow -> Fair | 0% - 147% | None
Combo | Dthrow -> Nair | 0% - 110% | None
Combo | Bthrow -> Fair | 6% - 52% | None
Combo | Uthrow -> Flare Blitz | 35% - 45% | None
Combo | Uthrow -> Fair | 0% - 43% | None
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Grab | 100%-180% | Falcon gets flung clear of Zard's head starting at 180%. It'll still frame trap decently but it will be easier to jump out of. Falcon sometimes gets knocked too horizontally for standing grab to work though. This seems to only happen when Falcon is really close to Zard when you begin the jab combo.
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Fly | 140% - 180% | Falcon's feet hit the ground when fly connects at lower percents. It won't frame trap as well above and below this; this is the optimal percent range to use it. If the percents get higher, Falcon will suffer too much horizontal knockback for this to work.
Great Frame Trap | Sour SH reverse Nair -> B reverse Flamethrower | 54% - 85% | Only a few hits of Flamethrower connect on the upper side of the percent range. You are better off tech chasing usually. DI away will make both ranges lower.
Sonic
Rating | String | Percents | Notes
Combo | Sour SH Nair -> Jabs | 30% - 77% | Hard knockback from Nair starts at 51%.
Combo | Sour Reverse SH Nair -> Tipper Ftilt | 60% - 80% | None
Combo | Utilt -> Utilt | 16% - 32% | None
Combo | Utilt -> Usmash | 16% - 20% | Both hits of Usmash will land until about 25% but they can jump out of the second hit starting at 21%.
Combo | Utilt -> Uair | 42% - 51% | You have to double jump to land the Uair if you are going for this as a non-true combo at percents above 51. I'm willing to bet there are only a few frames where your opponent can input an option though. Uair might not be avoidable outside of this range.
Combo | Dair -> Utilt | 51% - 69% | None
None | Dair -> Fly | None | This no longer true combos in training mode.
Combo | Dair -> Uair | 71% - 97% | None
Combo | Uair -> Uair | 41% - 50% | Double jump to land the second Uair at percents above the range. It will not be a true combo though. Much like Utilt to Uair, I think there is probably a bit of leeway on percents below the range because your opponent only has a few frames to escape. It's all about frame canceling this well though.
Combo | Uair -> Usmash | 13% - 24% | Opponent can jump out after 24%. Both hits will land if the opponent does not jump until 27%. Frame canceling is crucial for the lower 7ish percent.
Combo | Dthrow -> Uair | 0% - 97% | None
Combo | Dthrow -> Fair | 0% - 115% | None
Combo | Dthrow -> Nair | 0% - 79% | None
None | Bthrow -> Fair | None | This no longer works.
Combo | Uthrow -> Flare Blitz | 30% - 38% | None
Combo | Uthrow -> Fair | 0% - 29% | Use your double jump for the entire percent range.
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Grab | 90%-130% | Sonics with MU knowledge should get out of this most of the time by mashing up B. I'm not sure if Fly will catch them but it leaves them in an unfavorable position either way. No dash grab needed if you're close enough. You can also grab Sonic before his feet touch the ground.
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Fly | 90% - 120% | Sonic receives fairly vertical knockback but due to his small hurtbox size, Fly will whiff if he is on the outside of your jab range.
Great Frame Trap | Sour SH reverse Nair -> B reverse Flamethrower | 51% - 84% | None
I intend to add numbers and notes for Sheik and Pikachu in the future if there is interest in having such a combo list. With any luck, I'll also have numbers for DI. I chose these characters for their proximity to other good characters on the weight chart, past success in tournament play, and character hurtbox sizes relative to their neighbors on the weight chart. Feel free to suggest others though.
I will be rating any notable frame traps. Videos appreciated for new ones. Preferably tournament games.
I also want to include any notes for trying to land the combo/frame trap against characters which, of course, may change based on the opponent's weight and hurtbox size. If there is a note of "None" you should look at the next heaviest (ex. for Falcon, look at DK unless otherwise indicated) character for advice on landing the combo.
Any and all specific questions I have for you guys will be in bold at the end of the notes section! Eyeballed or otherwise questionable percentages for frame traps and combos are marked with an asterisk! Thanks.
Frame Trap Rating System
Combo - We all know what this is. Combos are inescapable followups. For the purposes of this OP, combo will mean 'combo with no DI' since training mode is all I have to work with right now. I'd love to add percentages that include DI though.
Great - Top tier escape options and frame data are the only great ways to escape (Ex. ZSS' Flip Kick, frame 3 aerials). These frame traps have a pretty wide percent range where they are effective. May be characterized by a "50/50."
Good - Not too difficult to escape, you may get a little more mileage out of it in laggy envoirnments. May be characterized by being able to bait out a punishable option from your opponent. Percent ranges may be less lenient. Easier to interrupt.
Decent - These frame traps have niche uses. They must have at least 2 of the following three properties: they are only useful at certain parts of the stage, narrow percentage ranges, and with very specific DI.
Great - Top tier escape options and frame data are the only great ways to escape (Ex. ZSS' Flip Kick, frame 3 aerials). These frame traps have a pretty wide percent range where they are effective. May be characterized by a "50/50."
Good - Not too difficult to escape, you may get a little more mileage out of it in laggy envoirnments. May be characterized by being able to bait out a punishable option from your opponent. Percent ranges may be less lenient. Easier to interrupt.
Decent - These frame traps have niche uses. They must have at least 2 of the following three properties: they are only useful at certain parts of the stage, narrow percentage ranges, and with very specific DI.
Donkey Kong
Rating | String | Percents | Notes
Combo | Sour SH Nair -> Jabs | 40% - 89% | DK starts suffering hard knockback at from Nair 60%. Land the nair with Charizard's head and neck inside of DK's character model for the combo to register at the outsides of the percent range. Move towards DK throughout Nair too. DI away?
Combo | Sour Reverse SH Nair -> Tipper Ftilt | 76% - 101% | Use upward angled Ftilt. Lower couple of percent seem to sourspot Ftilt occasionally. Move towards DK throughout Nair . Percents for DI away?
Combo | Utilt -> Utilt | 19% - 41% | Just use Utilt twice, one right after another. If they air dodge between around 10% and 18%, they also get punished on landing. Last few percent on the upper range may be effected by DI.
Combo | Utilt -> Usmash | 13% - 30% | Very similar to Utilt -> Utilt except sometimes the Usmash won't connect all of the hits or any of the hits if they aren't right above you at the upper end of the percent range (about 26%-30%). Percents for DI away?
Combo | Utilt -> Uair | 49% - 66% | Buffer the Uair out of jump squat for the very lower end of the range. Buffer the Uair once your are already in the air for the very upper end. You can still frame trap with it outside of the range but it won't be a combo.
Combo | Dair -> Utilt | 67% - 85% | You can frame trap with other stuff way earlier and later but the combo count won't register. Land the Dair as while you are as close to the ground as possible to pull this off. Can we frame cancel/lag synch this?
Combo | Dair -> Fly | 83% - 115% |
Combo | Dair -> Uair | 91% - 120% | This will kill, especially if you have rage. It outdoes Dair -> Fly because it is easier to chase DI with. Fast fall Dair once you enter hitlag.
Combo | Uair -> Usmash | 14% - 36% | Use Uair on a grounded DK then followup with usmash. It can work as early as 14% but the timing is really hard. Fastfall it once you enter hitlag. Practice it at half speed. I can consistently get it to work starting at 25%.
Combo | Uair -> Uair | 53% - 67% | Very similar to Uair Usmash except you have to use Uair a second time. Make sure you don't accidentally JC Usmash instead.
Combo | Dthrow -> Uair | 1% - 130%* | Dash forward a little first for the upper percent range. True range is likely a little wider if you buffer Uair out of jump squat for the lower range. Red lightning starts at 112%, This can kill. DI away range?
Combo | Dthrow -> Fair | 0% - 145% | Double jump out of Dthrow and position yourself below and to the side of DK for it to connect at higher percents. Upper range is likely far lower with human DI. What is it?
Combo | Dthrow -> Usmash | 0% - 11% | Jump cancel Usmash to pull this off. The third hit won't register as a combo starting at 11%. All hits connect up until 29% but only the first 2 register as a combo.
Combo | Dthrow -> Nair | 0% - 110% | You can combo with the sweet spot starting at around 90%.
Combo | Bthrow -> Fair | 0% - 59% | Upper end of things uses the very edge of the claw hitbox. Timing is pretty strict above 55.
Combo | Uthrow -> Flare Blitz | 40% - 49% | You have to double jump first. I suspect Dragon Rush and possibly Blast Burn work too.
Combo | Uthrow -> Fair | 0-59% | You have to double jump first for the upper end of the range. You will land with lag if you don't double jump but that's what has to be done for the lower percents.
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Grab | 60%* - 110%* | No dash grab here unless they are on the very outside of your jab range. Be wary of quick aerials from heavies at higher percents not in this range I am not sure how well this works when heavies DI down and jab or DI up and use a quick aerial.
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Fly | 100%* - 170* | Being close to your opponent for the jabs will help a lot if they try to airdodge Fly. You should super armor through most of the quick aerials heavies can throw out. Fly will not connect if they are on the very outside of your jab range. How does this change with human DI? How much easier is this to air dodge as percents increase?
Great Frame Trap | Sour SH reverse Nair -> B reverse Flamethrower | 60%-120% | This will get at least a couple hits. It covers every option except tech away. It's best used toward the middle of the range. It's very safe on heavies. Can you jump out of it?
Good Frame Trap | Sour SH Nair -> Jabs | 0%* - 40% | Heavies with quick jabs may have a decent number of frames where they can jab you out of this at low percent. Go for the frame trap when you can outrange their jabs with your own. I would like to know how well this works when heavies DI down and shield though.
??? Frame Trap | Dthrow -> Nair -> Regrab | 0% - 30%* | Heavies with fast Nairs may be able to get out. How good is this frame trap against heavies? Nair doesn't give them that much hitstun.
??? Frame Trap | Reverse SH sour Nair -> Sweet Bair | 93% - 106% | This one is a little tricky. It's like the Nair to Ftilt combo except you have to do a SH Bair immediately out of jump squat. This means you have to really time it rather than mash Ftilt. Otherwise, they're very similar. Both percent limits will be lower with DI away. You can also catch people as they miss a tech with this at percents below 93% (no DI).
Captain Falcon
Rating | String | Percents | Notes
Combo | Sour SH Nair -> Jabs | 36% - 88% | Hard knockback from Nair starts at 54%.
Combo | Sour Reverse SH Nair -> Tipper Ftilt | 57% - 97% | None
Combo | Utilt -> Utilt | 17% - 44% | None
Combo | Utilt -> Usmash | 11% - 35% | They start to fall out of Usmash at 30%. It should consistently combo between 11% and 30% though.
Combo | Utilt -> Uair | 45% - 65% | None
Combo | Dair -> Utilt | 56% - 75% | None
Combo | Dair -> Fly | 73% - 103% | None
Combo | Dair -> Uair | 88% - 117% | None
Combo | Uair -> Uair | 44% - 64% | None
Combo | Uair -> Usmash | 20% - 36% | Starts to fall out after 32%
Combo | Dthrow -> Uair | 0% - 121% | None
Combo | Dthrow -> Fair | 0% - 147% | None
Combo | Dthrow -> Nair | 0% - 110% | None
Combo | Bthrow -> Fair | 6% - 52% | None
Combo | Uthrow -> Flare Blitz | 35% - 45% | None
Combo | Uthrow -> Fair | 0% - 43% | None
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Grab | 100%-180% | Falcon gets flung clear of Zard's head starting at 180%. It'll still frame trap decently but it will be easier to jump out of. Falcon sometimes gets knocked too horizontally for standing grab to work though. This seems to only happen when Falcon is really close to Zard when you begin the jab combo.
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Fly | 140% - 180% | Falcon's feet hit the ground when fly connects at lower percents. It won't frame trap as well above and below this; this is the optimal percent range to use it. If the percents get higher, Falcon will suffer too much horizontal knockback for this to work.
Great Frame Trap | Sour SH reverse Nair -> B reverse Flamethrower | 54% - 85% | Only a few hits of Flamethrower connect on the upper side of the percent range. You are better off tech chasing usually. DI away will make both ranges lower.
Sonic
Rating | String | Percents | Notes
Combo | Sour SH Nair -> Jabs | 30% - 77% | Hard knockback from Nair starts at 51%.
Combo | Sour Reverse SH Nair -> Tipper Ftilt | 60% - 80% | None
Combo | Utilt -> Utilt | 16% - 32% | None
Combo | Utilt -> Usmash | 16% - 20% | Both hits of Usmash will land until about 25% but they can jump out of the second hit starting at 21%.
Combo | Utilt -> Uair | 42% - 51% | You have to double jump to land the Uair if you are going for this as a non-true combo at percents above 51. I'm willing to bet there are only a few frames where your opponent can input an option though. Uair might not be avoidable outside of this range.
Combo | Dair -> Utilt | 51% - 69% | None
None | Dair -> Fly | None | This no longer true combos in training mode.
Combo | Dair -> Uair | 71% - 97% | None
Combo | Uair -> Uair | 41% - 50% | Double jump to land the second Uair at percents above the range. It will not be a true combo though. Much like Utilt to Uair, I think there is probably a bit of leeway on percents below the range because your opponent only has a few frames to escape. It's all about frame canceling this well though.
Combo | Uair -> Usmash | 13% - 24% | Opponent can jump out after 24%. Both hits will land if the opponent does not jump until 27%. Frame canceling is crucial for the lower 7ish percent.
Combo | Dthrow -> Uair | 0% - 97% | None
Combo | Dthrow -> Fair | 0% - 115% | None
Combo | Dthrow -> Nair | 0% - 79% | None
None | Bthrow -> Fair | None | This no longer works.
Combo | Uthrow -> Flare Blitz | 30% - 38% | None
Combo | Uthrow -> Fair | 0% - 29% | Use your double jump for the entire percent range.
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Grab | 90%-130% | Sonics with MU knowledge should get out of this most of the time by mashing up B. I'm not sure if Fly will catch them but it leaves them in an unfavorable position either way. No dash grab needed if you're close enough. You can also grab Sonic before his feet touch the ground.
Great Frame Trap | Jab 2 -> Fly | 90% - 120% | Sonic receives fairly vertical knockback but due to his small hurtbox size, Fly will whiff if he is on the outside of your jab range.
Great Frame Trap | Sour SH reverse Nair -> B reverse Flamethrower | 51% - 84% | None
I intend to add numbers and notes for Sheik and Pikachu in the future if there is interest in having such a combo list. With any luck, I'll also have numbers for DI. I chose these characters for their proximity to other good characters on the weight chart, past success in tournament play, and character hurtbox sizes relative to their neighbors on the weight chart. Feel free to suggest others though.
I will be rating any notable frame traps. Videos appreciated for new ones. Preferably tournament games.
I also want to include any notes for trying to land the combo/frame trap against characters which, of course, may change based on the opponent's weight and hurtbox size. If there is a note of "None" you should look at the next heaviest (ex. for Falcon, look at DK unless otherwise indicated) character for advice on landing the combo.
Any and all specific questions I have for you guys will be in bold at the end of the notes section! Eyeballed or otherwise questionable percentages for frame traps and combos are marked with an asterisk! Thanks.
Last edited: