Charizard is broken.

[Arcalyth]

Infinite glides.

He can stay in the air nearly indefinitely by diving for more airtime, rising back up, canceling glide, and repeating. Combined with his jump and the relative ease in getting back to the ground and back into the air faster than your opponent can catch you, I think that this is a really easy way to steal some money from hapless tournament-goers.

I'm not usually one to john like this but I really feel like this is a massive oversight in Charizard's character design.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

Finally

10char

 

[Kink-Link5]

Brought to you by Bunni Charizard Master

 

[standardtoaster]

This is known and should have been posted about in bug reports.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

It's not about reporting a bug

It's about aknowledging a feature that will be in Project M for a while until the next public release comes out (Or so i assume, atleast)

 

[Arcalyth]

Apologies, can you move it there?

 

[metroid1117]

Infinite glides.

He can stay in the air nearly indefinitely by diving for more airtime, rising back up, canceling glide, and repeating. Combined with his jump and the relative ease in getting back to the ground and back into the air faster than your opponent can catch you, I think that this is a really easy way to steal some money from hapless tournament-goers.

I'm not usually one to john like this but I really feel like this is a massive oversight in Charizard's character design.

This is an unintended bug, Charizard is supposed to be limited to one glide until he either touches the ground or grabs the edge.

 

[Kuraudo]

This is an unintended bug, Charizard is supposed to be limited to one glide until he either touches the ground or grabs the edge.

I don't see it as a big deal anyway. A lot of characters can reach Charizard anyway and he's vulnerable to a lot of characters if he's just gliding back and forth up above.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

I don't see it as a big deal anyway. A lot of characters can reach Charizard anyway and he's vulnerable to a lot of characters if he's just gliding back and forth up above.

It is an incredibly big deal if Zard spaces himself properly because a lot of characters can't even try to punish him without being at great risk as well.

It's exactly the same as Peach Bomber stalling in Melee, really.

 

[iLink]

I want to see a Charizard do that to me in a match and accomplish anything while doing it.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Just use Pikachu and spam Thunder.

He won't be up there very long.


But really, as this is an unintended issue, it will be fixed next build. At the most we can ask for a patch for this but the PMBR has to decide whether or not they will.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

Just use Pikachu and spam Thunder.

He won't be up there very long.


But really, as this is an unintended issue, it will be fixed next build. At the most we can ask for a patch for this but the PMBR has to decide whether or not they will.

The problem is Zard infinitely gliding below the stage, not above it. This is the same thing that got Pit's Side B nerfed, and there he only could glide twice before hitting the ground.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

They can also ban it at individual tournaments.

I think a good thing to do is spread word about it to tournaments who don't already have it banned in the rules.

 

[MaxThunder]

there's been rules against stalling for how long now?.. i don't think think we need a new rule for every way to stall that's discovered...

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Well, it wouldn't have to be an entire new rule, it could just be like:

- No stalling (this includes Charizard's infinite glide)

 

[MaxThunder]

but no stalling already includes all stalling...

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

True, it would be up to the TO whether or not to specify it though, in order to make things perfectly clear since it's a new issue.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

so in the next version Zard will be back to one glide in air?
damn.... I thought multiple glides were intended... i don't feel like its that OP.
Stalling is illegal anyway, why should it be a problem?

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

so in the next version Zard will be back to one glide in air?
damn.... I thought multiple glides were intended... i don't feel like its that OP.
Stalling is illegal anyway, why should it be a problem?

It will likely be reverted to 1 glide, but you will go into fall instead of special fall after a glide cancel

Ideally you should try to fix anything so game breaking as that instead of simply calling it illegal

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

well, i don't think it is a game breaking recovery, i don't think the ability to stall with something is gamebreaking either, since it's already forbidden and there are other chars who can do it.

I'm guessing that pound stall is also still in the game?! so what?

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

well, i don't think it is a game breaking recovery, i don't think the ability to stall with something is gamebreaking either, since it's already forbidden and there are other chars who can do it.

I'm guessing that pound stall is also still in the game?! so what?

Jiggs should ideally not be able to infinitely stall with pounds, but the PMBR most likely did not want to change her and instead made her 100% like Melee

Limiting Pit's glides precisely because he could loop stages and stall but not limiting Zard's would be dumb and rather hypocritical from the PMBR. Not to mention that they already stated it's a bug that would be fixed so yeah.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

well, i don't think it is a game breaking recovery, i don't think the ability to stall with something is gamebreaking either, since it's already forbidden and there are other chars who can do it.

I'm guessing that pound stall is also still in the game?! so what?

Am I stalling or just trying to get to a better position? Am I stalling or am I trying to recover?

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

^ thats a different questions, thats the question of wether or not stalling can be called out effectively...

i'm just saying that zards infinite glides isn't really gamebraking, zard isn't an awfully strong character, and i like him having more than one glide.
I know they're going to change it anyways, but i don't feel its really that important to hurt charizard

and he's definitely not "broken" because of it.

 

[Magus420]

Jiggs could never infinitely stall with rising pound. You lose a bit of height with each use even when timed perfectly unless you're playing in tiny mode (in tiny melee at least, dunno if that's true in tiny brawl/PM).

 

[Arcalyth]

"Broken" being defined as a potentially gamebreaking/completely overpowering strategy, yeah, I'd consider the fact that Charizard can stall infinitely broken. All a Zard player would have to do is get a percent lead then infinitely glide under the stage, then win 8 minutes later. Of course, stalling is banned at tournaments, but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be addressed.

At any rate, the PMBR is aware of the issue and it'll be changed in the next release. Maybe we'll get a 2.6 bugfix update while they continue to work on the rest of the characters. I'm not holding my breath on it though

 

[xKobayashi]

nobody would do it so its not really a problem... nuff said

 

[trash?]

Something I'm wondering... wouldn't this be a bit nuts for getting gimps? I remember one problem the PMBR tried to address with pit was that his glides let him easily kill by just constantly hitting the opponent all the way to the edge, and then glide back no problem. This seems to be an even bigger problem than that, seeing how pit only had two glides and 'zard has infinity.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Jigglypuff doesn't seem to have a problem constantly hitting the opponent to the edge and coming back easily.

 

[\Apples]

Yeah, I don't see how this is really an issue so long as tournament rulesets ban stalling of any form, which they typically do.

 

[standardtoaster]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=332135

Make sure to download 2.5b! This fixes a few bugs presented to us including the infinite glides.

 

[Shadic]

Fixed in Demo 2.5b.

Thanks for reporting it though.

Edit: Annnnnd Toaster is a jerk.