Characters that are a pain to deal with and solutions?

[MT Williams]

Got bodied by Fox with Pit. Any tips?

 

[Wintropy]

Some tips from my experience:

- Relying on arrows is a no-no. A good Fox will reflect them right back at you
- Likewise, you can do the same to his lasers if he tries shooting you from afar
- Fox is fast. Faster than Pit. He may try to rush you down, so be cautious and dodge as necessary
- Counter-strikes are your friend. If Fox tries to dodge, get behind him and side-tilt / d-tilt or grab
- Fox Illusion is to be approached with caution. He can cover a lot of ground with it and catch you off-guard, but if you shield it, you can get a good chance to hit him back
- Upperdash ONLY when you DEFINITELY have an opening. Wait until he's charging a smash or hits landing lag. Prepare to be punished you miss it. Decent KO move if used correctly, can knock into the air as well
- Take to the skies! Pit's got wings and Fox seems to work better on the ground (my own experiences, may not apply overall), so get Mr McCloud into the air and tilt away!
- Be wary of air-spiking. Fox's recovery will hurt in all frames until it lands and you'll probably get burned if you get too close (insert Icarus analogy of your choice here)

 

[LancerStaff]

If you really want to use an arrow, have it come down on his head. That way if he reflects it, it won't fly for you.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Yes, you should learn to always angle/shield stab with your arrows against all characters. It makes reflectors irrelevant and you can get a surprise poke in occasionally.

I say stick to the ground and rely on your dijoints. Fox doesn't have em, never did. It was always in your best interest to space tilts and autocancelable aerials. Go for the tip of your blades everytime and prepare to shield/grab out of any retaliation.

Play it safe once you start approaching 100%. Foxes up smash is still a killer, and his juggling potential after any kind of launch that doesn't auto kill you is often just as fatal.

Even with his improved recovery though, you should focus on gimping him hard. His fall speed is a boon for juggling on stage but makes it more difficult for him to get back on if you keep fairs/bairs in his face.

 

[LancerStaff]

Oh, that reminds me. A friend of mine said you can push Fox with the GOs while he's charging his Uspecial. I really need to get to work testing out how the GOs interact with recoveries...

 

[Mightyno.M]

Title says it all I

any feed back will be accepted and appreciated

 

[Wintropy]

What sort of help are you specifically looking for? Anything in particular you're seeing issues with?

 

[Mightyno.M]

What sort of help are you specifically looking for? Anything in particular you're seeing issues with?

nothing in particular its just I feel its the hardest matchup for me any advice or advantages is all I'm asking

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Well, you're fighting someone who has all the same tools as you. You just need to put them to better use than your opponent.

Mirror matches are basically a test to see how familiar you are with your own character. You should be able to pull off aerials accurately, have correct spacing, know what kill moves to use, be accurate with your arrows and your reaction time with your Orbitars should be spot on. If you don't know these things, or are a bit shaky with some of them, that's perfectly fine, as mirror matches are a fantastic way to learn these things.

If you're losing to another Pit, surely you must be noticing things that he is doing better than you are. Maybe he's using shorthop aerials more, or he could be better at edge-guarding. Learn from your opponent. If he's doing something that works well, try to implement it into your own playstyle.

In case you're not aware of Pit's punishable moves, I'll go through them. Your Upperdash Arm (Side B) is extremely punishable if it fails to connect. If your opponent does not hit you with this move, I would usually punish him with my Upperdash, or go for a grab, pummel and throw. It's also good to know when your opponent might be thinking of using this move. Make note of the farthest distance if takes for the Upperdash to travel and hit you from. Once he gets within that distance of you, alarm bells should be ringing. You must be aware that the opportunity is open for him to use it, and you should be ready to block or out-space him.

Arrows are punishable to a lesser extent, in my opinion. There's a lot of ending lag after firing one, so be mindful of that. They're excellent for gimping; try to jump and shoot them so they're hitting your opponent's head. This will knock them further down so it will be harder for them to recover. Since you're fighting Pit, his arrows should not be a problem due to your Orbitars (Down B). However, be aware that you can be baited into using Orbitars, and punished as a result. The ending animation of this move is very long, and leaves you open to grabs. Clever opponents will fire maybe one arrow, and rush over to you for the grab.

Also, be aware that Pit has a Spike Move. His Down Air will spike opponents downwards if timed correctly. You must strike your enemy in the middle of the two blades. If you hit them with any other part of the blades, you will send them flying upwards instead. When you're recovering to the stage and the opposing Pit jumps off the stage towards you, try to get up higher than him so he cannot spike you, but you can spike him.

If I think of any more advice, I'll let you know. When it comes down to it, mirror matches are simply a test of who knows their character better. They're also an incredibly useful way to learn your character, so if you meet someone online who consistently plays Pit, I'd stay with them for as long as possible. Save the replays as well, so you can look back over them later.

 

[MiloniVanili]

Can anyone give me tips on the matchup? im having trouble with it. does dark pit maybe do better for some silly reason?

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Anything in particular about DeDeDe that gives you trouble, or just the general matchup?

 

[MiloniVanili]

the general matchup, best ways to swat away gordos that are angled so i cant reflect them back at him, how to get past his huge ass hammer, ect

 

[mark welford]

have you tried flying out of the dodge roll? btw your profile picture is cute!

 

[MiloniVanili]

what do you mean flying?

 

[mark welford]

what do you mean flying?

I meant jumping out of the dodge roll sorry wrong choice of words since pit is a angel I assumed he could fly also next time please use the reply button because when you don't you look like your talking to anyone. did I mention your profile picture is cute?

 

[LancerStaff]

Haven't fought alot of DDDs myself, but yaknow.

Pit would definitely be better at the matchup. Really, the only reason you'll want to use DP is to whack people's recoveries with the Electroshock, and that's kinda difficult with DDD.

Only advice I got is to not mess up when dealing with the Gordos.

 

[Eji1700]

1. Arrows reflect gordos. This is important as a good read gives you free damage(and a lot of it). that said smart ddd's won't spam because of this, and will use poor arrows to get in.

2. I actually think this might be a bad(not very but slightly) matchup for pit. The issue is we don't kill well. DDD is heavy, so we kill even worse. It's ok, we're gimp monsters. Oh wait, DDD has just as much recovery as we do, maybe even more. Well we've got long pokes? Nope he's got longer. Side B through things HURTS and isn't likely to kill.

It feels like a very technical matchup where he can just beat you on solid fundamentals, and you have to work for your win. A few basic screwups and you're going to die, while you've got to force him into bad situations a lot. I do think being able to be excellent at edge game will be important here, as spikes/punishing his UP B correctly are very important. It might just be a test of endurance to see if you can safely grind him up to KO range though. Not sure how much of that is just "be solid" and how much will just be "guess well" though. Hard to tell with the random's.

Either way I very much felt like he was sitting there losing slowly, but I still lost. My strat vs all the other heavies is to just get them off the stage and gimp them hard/buildup from there, but DDD just doesn't care.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

I've been having some trouble with good Sheiks lately, and I was hoping some of you guys could share your strategies or advice.

I think my main problem with this matchup is once I'm in the air, I'm pretty helpless. Whenever our aerials trade, hers always comes out on top. I feel as though I have no priority against her; I always find myself getting combo'd and tossed around the stage from one end to another. Especially when I'm trying to recover back to the stage, I find that Sheik has so many options on edge-guarding. Even if I attempt an airdodge, I'm left with all the landing lag in the world, leaving me open for a punish.

Her attacks come out incredibly fast, it's difficult to get a hit in. I find that it's near pointless to use any smash attacks unless you're going to punish her for a Bouncing Fish or a sloppy recovery, as her attacks will always beat me to it. The needles are also proving to be an annoyance. I never know how to approach her because of this. I know that they're not overly powerful, but once I'm hit by them, I'm left pretty helpless as it takes a while to recover from them. The Orbitars are a pretty bad choice to use against them as they don't come out very fast, and pair their ending lag with Sheik's speed, and she gets a free punishment.

All help is appreciated

 

[LancerStaff]

Well, I like to bust out the GOs when I have trouble landing. In Shiek's case, it may be best to keep them up past the ledge then jump back.

I'll try to shoot an arrow under her needles if she's just spaming uncharged ones. Arrow planking is also effective, since she can't hit you with her needles from afar.

Deal with her moves like any other fast character's: jab up close, ftilt at a decent range, and squeak in an Upperdash for a KO if it takes that long.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Well, I like to bust out the GOs when I have trouble landing. In Shiek's case, it may be best to keep them up past the ledge then jump back.

I'll try to shoot an arrow under her needles if she's just spaming uncharged ones. Arrow planking is also effective, since she can't hit you with her needles from afar.

Deal with her moves like any other fast character's: jab up close, ftilt at a decent range, and squeak in an Upperdash for a KO if it takes that long.

Thanks for the advice! I actually wasn't aware what planking was, so I guess I learned something new today. If I end up getting backed into a corner by her, I find that the Upperdash is useful for forcing my way through her advancing attacks. I'll do my best to put the practice in; I think that's all I really need.

 

[LancerStaff]

Just to be clear, planking is ledge camping. Planking as a whole doesn't work anymore due to the regrab timer, but Pit can still arrow plank effectively.

 

[chipndip]

Yea, I have to use Yoshi for the match-up. Pit just can't deal with the Gordos that well, really. Dealing with that crap is like, 40% of the battle, and then there's the rest of him to deal with. -_-

You're gonna have to out-speed him or something. Upperdash Arm could beat his face in with his own Gordo if he does it on the ground while you're close enough. Problem is the rest of the match-up. If it's possible to get close fast enough, since Pit has high dmg throws, you could try that when you get close. Try to get as many pummels as possible too. 14%-16% on a single throw is nice damage.

 

[EpicFlyingTaco]

So I just got repeatedly owned by Pit in for Glory.

So, help I guess? Can you tell me some of Pit's weaknesses?

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Well, I guess I could start off by talking about what I personally have difficulty with as a Pit main. Who's your main by the way?

My personal hardest matchups are characters like Sheik, Captain Falcon and Sonic. So I guess the fast-moving, pressurizing opponents are a weakness for Pit. He's a pretty agile guy himself, he just has some difficulties keeping up with other fast characters. Pit has some pretty powerful grabs, so I always get irritated when my opponent knows how to spotdodge, or sidestep effectively. So, get good at that

In my opinion, Pit is one of the best air fighters in the game. A lot of people I fight are unaware of the range of his aerials, probably because he's a pretty uncommon guy to see online. People tend to get caught out by his Fair. For this move, he reaches out and spins his bow horizontally in front of him, giving it a longer reach. If he's recovering back onto the stage and you're waiting for him at the edge, be aware that his Fair can easily hit you as he approaches.

He also has a Spike move. If you're moving into the air to fight him, don't let him get above you. He has four jumps, so it might be a little difficult to stop that. If he doesn't pull off the Spike on his Dair, it will send you flying upwards. (Heads up : his Bair is a kill move.)

Then there's more commonly known things like ending lag on his Upperdash Arm and his Light Arrows. He's also a lightweight, and sometimes has problems killing. Don't know how helpful any of this was to you, ask again if you want some more specific info.

 

[EpicFlyingTaco]

Well, I guess I could start off by talking about what I personally have difficulty with as a Pit main. Who's your main by the way?

My personal hardest matchups are characters like Sheik, Captain Falcon and Sonic. So I guess the fast-moving, pressurizing opponents are a weakness for Pit. He's a pretty agile guy himself, he just has some difficulties keeping up with other fast characters. Pit has some pretty powerful grabs, so I always get irritated when my opponent knows how to spotdodge, or sidestep effectively. So, get good at that

In my opinion, Pit is one of the best air fighters in the game. A lot of people I fight are unaware of the range of his aerials, probably because he's a pretty uncommon guy to see online. People tend to get caught out by his Fair. For this move, he reaches out and spins his bow horizontally in front of him, giving it a longer reach. If he's recovering back onto the stage and you're waiting for him at the edge, be aware that his Fair can easily hit you as he approaches.

He also has a Spike move. If you're moving into the air to fight him, don't let him get above you. He has four jumps, so it might be a little difficult to stop that. If he doesn't pull off the Spike on his Dair, it will send you flying upwards. (Heads up : his Bair is a kill move.)

Then there's more commonly known things like ending lag on his Upperdash Arm and his Light Arrows. He's also a lightweight, and sometimes has problems killing. Don't know how helpful any of this was to you, ask again if you want some more specific info.

Thanks for the tips. I don't really have a main at the moment, but I'm considering maining Diddy cause I feel like he's currently my best character. Although I REALLY want to play Jiggs, and have him at least as a secondary. I also like ROB and Peach. Sometimes I'll take out Doc, Ganon, and Zero Suit. Shulk is also pretty cool. Really there's a bunch of characters I like, but these are currently the big ones. I'm not 100 percent sure who my main is going to be at this point, maybe I'll figure it out when the Wii U version comes out, especially since spacing will be easier on that version and Jiggs relies so heavily on the spacing of her aerials.

 

[Scala]

I think pit has a favorable matchup on DDD. Reasons:

+ Arrows will stop gordos
+ SH fair hits DDD while he's on the ground
+ Run up full hop nair is good safe pressure
+ Pit's aerials suck DDD in rather easily because he's so big
+ Multiple jumps help avoid DDD air pressure
+ Extra large target to hit with arrows
- DDD's ftilt is better than pit's ground moves

I think ftilt is DDD's saving grace in the matchup, he doesn't really have much other than that. Unfortunately it's kind of a big deal though if DDD isn't taking risks and trying to space you out. I just camp arrows and zone with fair until DDD overextends and then lay the smack down.

 

[MiloniVanili]

people who say arrows stop gordos fail to mention that only fresh arrows stop gordos

 

[SwoodGrommet]

people who say arrows stop gordos fail to mention that only fresh arrows stop gordos

Then use them sparingly. You also have Orbitars and the ability to jump four times.

 

[CHOMPY]

For the life of me, I can't seem to ever hit Fox. Not only does he outcamp Pit, but whenever I get close, he does like an infinite jab on my Pit. He moves so quick that I can't seem to hit him. My arrows are of no use onstage, except trying to gimp him offstage. The only times I ever seem to hit Fox is when I him with a Nair, which is the quickest and long lasting aerials. Any other aerials, moves I throw at him he blocks them every time.

Mind you, our match was on Wifi. He lived on the west coast, while I lived in the midwest, so that may have to do with why I was having to much trouble fighting Fox

Heres what I'm talking about.

VS Fox

 

[IzunaDroppuh]

It looked even at first but Fox just seems to have better overall tools and didn't look unsafe ever.

 

[Xmark]

Yes, you should learn to always angle/shield stab with your arrows against all characters. It makes reflectors irrelevant and you can get a surprise poke in occasionally.

I say stick to the ground and rely on your dijoints. Fox doesn't have em, never did. It was always in your best interest to space tilts and autocancelable aerials. Go for the tip of your blades everytime and prepare to shield/grab out of any retaliation.

Play it safe once you start approaching 100%. Foxes up smash is still a killer, and his juggling potential after any kind of launch that doesn't auto kill you is often just as fatal.

Even with his improved recovery though, you should focus on gimping him hard. His fall speed is a boon for juggling on stage but makes it more difficult for him to get back on if you keep fairs/bairs in his face.

What are Pit's Dijoints?

 

[LancerStaff]

So, I used the GOs on Fox's recovery.

The charging rapidly hits the shields, and he flys up. ._.

Good news is that it redirects the actual recovery. If he trys to go diagonally up when hitting the shield, he'll fly up at a sharp angle. Combine it with his fast fall speed and he's dead.

And you can plink away at him with arrows while he's charging his recovery. Can't miss once though, or he'll do the attack and that stops arrows. It requires very specific spacing and aim, and doesn't work with guiding arrows either. You'll have to work hard for that KO.

 

[Lenus Altair]

What are Pit's Dijoints?

Disjoints, sorry.

AKA the range of his swords. Fox cannot space like Pit can thanks to staying behind his blades.

 

[Scala]

people who say arrows stop gordos fail to mention that only fresh arrows stop gordos

That's true, but you can also charge them briefly when they're stale to beat gordos

 

[a Link to the Forums]

One thing that has become essential to my Pit play is gimping. Pit's aerial game is absolutely fantastic with disjointed hitboxes that can reach a long way. His recovery is great too so don't be afraid to go far offstage. Fox is one of the easiest to gimp too because fire fox takes time to charge so you can go in for an attack. Even though arrows have been nerfed they still work for gimping purposes.

Other than that make use of his range and disjoints. D-tilt is pretty safe, f-tilt has more ending lag but the range is useful if opponents that are just of of reach for other attacks and I find very useful when pivoting. Against fox, u-tilt combo into other things like nair or uair at low %'s. Dash attack is good for approaches as well.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

it just seems like a match up your not good with you dont use f tilt to punish aproach or to space you not arrowing him when hes knocked away for pressure witch probably could have allowed you to start baiting for shines. and im not sure how much yo should use nair as a devensive tool.

this is just my critisim. since that fox player coulda seen some more punisment.

 

[Strider_123]

which characters drive you mad? or ones you have trouble dealing with? any solutions?

not really specific to one character for me but it seems like pits arrows can't beat most projectiles. like dededees gordo throw, r.o.b.s laser and gyro.

 

[LancerStaff]

Typically when I come across a equal/higher priority projectile, I'll aim around it and then shield. Little tricky for the Links arrows, but it works for just about everything else.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Little Mac of course and Yoshi

 

[Strider_123]

oh yes link his projectiles go through practically everything :/.
@ WolfieXVII ❂ little mac and yoshi always gave me a hard time but i thought it was me , now i know its not!