Character Tournament

[TimboJimbo]

Hello interwebz

I decided to have a tournament between all of the chars on ssbb. The results were v interesting and did not go as I expected. I HIGHLY recommend it as it shows what chars you were better with than you thought and also which ones you had misconceptions about (I though I was much better with Diddy for example). Looking at the results also shows what kind of player you are and your style of brawling.

So...The Results!!!

1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
7th
9th
13th
17th
25th
33rd

Now if you compare that to the personal tier list that I added to a thread a while back I'm amazed how wrong I was.

I'm wondering if anyone else has done this (maybe to decide their main) and would like to put up their results. Also in the gf between Luigi and Kirby I was just playing lvl9 as each character until one of them lost. I think it took 9 rounds but eventually a winner was chosen.

 

[Ussi]

AI takes inputs from the user, so usually if you play well, the characters that get played on your wii more tend to do better.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

I don't know why, but this method feels wrong. I don't think you can judge your
ability to use a character based on one tourney playthrough, on COMs no less.

Someone who knows what they are talkin about, confirm this is no good...

 

[link2702]

this is no good.



computers don't play remotely close to what real players are gonna play like, using your results against CPUS doesn't mean jack about how good/bad a player you actually are/how good/bad you are with your character.

Go out and face real players, more specifically some ranked ones, go watch some vids of pros who use said characters, start reading up on techniques and basic strategies for your character, THEN you'll have an idea of how good or bad a player you might be.

 

[Pachinkosam]

nice list am the 4th person yay!! or 5th lol

 

[Le vieux lapin]

There are so many better ways to find your character, but the best ones take so long, I wouldn't comlain
if someone found something easy like this.

 

[Wave-Guiding Hero]

this is no good.



computers don't play remotely close to what real players are gonna play like, using your results against CPUS doesn't mean jack about how good/bad a player you actually are/how good/bad you are with your character.

Go out and face real players, more specifically some ranked ones, go watch some vids of pros who use said characters, start reading up on techniques and basic strategies for your character, THEN you'll have an idea of how good or bad a player you might be.

I think it's more like which characters feel right to you, or how well you played with them just after picking them up, than if you're a good player or not. I couldn't really understand the original post though, so I'm probably wrong

 

[TimboJimbo]

nice list am the 4th person yay!! or 5th lol

Yay!!! Thankyou!

All right everyone else calm down!! I wasn't saying "this is the only way to pick your main". I was just saying it's interesting how with characters I have never really played properly (Luigi) I was much better at than characters I have played with more (ICs).

Also looking at the results I can say that I play an aerial style and like lighter characters. Also a lot of my better characters are mid-tier.

Also I am not saying "I am a smash god because I can play a cpu". Not many of my friends play smash and I am a much higher level than them so I play cpus. I am not an uberpro and I don't pretend to be one.

Just thought it was interesting that's all. Calm down.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

AI takes inputs from the user, so usually if you play well, the characters that get played on your wii more tend to do better.

No.

CPUs have no learning capability.

1. This has been proven through game hacking, no evidence of storing user inputs exists in the game's code.

2. Replays are actually re-matches played with your inputs stored, not recordings. So replays with CPUs in them would desync as your CPU learns new tactics. The same would happen if you transferred your replay to someone else's Wii.

3. Such a system would require a lot of time and effort to program for a game which mechanics as complex as Brawls, if such a feature really did exist, don't you think it would've been mentioned somewhere on the Dojo or in interviews to help market the game?

I hate this myth so much, lol.

 

[Ussi]

Source please

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Are you... Um... what?

A source for what? Game hacking has shown no sign of learning AI, there is no post with Dantarion announcing this revelation to the public or whatever, it is just a fact, you can check the code yourself if your want and try and find evidence to the contrary.

The other two things I listed are just common sense.

 

[Ussi]

1. Source for number 1, cause somebody must have said something about it

2. Why would inputs change in a replay? The CPU wouldn't have any need to actually play the game, just repeat what was saved. It's not like the players have to play again. Besides CPUs don't act the same in every single situation, I can dash to a CPU and he'll shield, or he'll jump, or attack me, or some different attack each time.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

1. I'm sure somebody did at some point, I'm not going to bother finding it when you have the burden of proof.

2. CPUs inputs aren't saved, you can test this by doing a match in Special Brawl and saving a replay. Any RNG stuff is stored as well as the player's inputs, that is it.

My third point still stands.

 

[-LzR-]

I hate it when people think the AI learns. Have you ever done any programming?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I agree with that. Coding learning AI for Brawl that actually works properly would be soooo difficult and the end result would probably be worse than if you just hard-coded specific actions.

 

[Sunnysunny]

1. Source for number 1, cause somebody must have said something about it

2. Why would inputs change in a replay? The CPU wouldn't have any need to actually play the game, just repeat what was saved. It's not like the players have to play again. Besides CPUs don't act the same in every single situation, I can dash to a CPU and he'll shield, or he'll jump, or attack me, or some different attack each time.

Duuuude. Ok heres what I did. I used a hack that let me play as ivysaur by himself, took a replay of it, then turned off hacks.

When rewatching it, after I died ivysaur wouldn't come back and the AI just sat near the edge and did whatever he wanted there. Eventually my pokemon switched and he started fighting as usual again. This proves that the AI in replays isn't just recorded or stored inputs.

Now, if the computer did have a learning AI, if you rewatch replays the Ai would play diffrently and the replays would be all screwed up seeing as how your input is recorded, but the AI's is not.

 

[-LzR-]

wat
10wats

 

[Sunnysunny]

MAGIC!!
10imbadatexplainingthings

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I understood what you said Sunny, and it proves my point perfectly.

Cheers.

 

[Ghostbone]

I understood it

It's like if you play Brawl +, save a replay, then go back to normal Brawl and play it.

You'll see yourself do crazy **** and suicide and stuff, while the CPU will be fine.