Guide Character Match-Ups

[blast_ssbb]

Wes owned me mad hard at NYC weekly today id love some tips for that sexy robot too!

 

[mr_joey132]

Can you make a matchup for Ganondorf before 28 April plz?

Edit: ah oki, thanks! =)

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

allright.

Captian Falcon is up, thank you so much to blast_ssbb, most of the tips were from him, I just reworded them and stuff thanks bro


Samus will be the next matchup, and a few tips have been thrown in there to start her off though i will continue/finish at another time. I need advice from some experienced Samus fighters on this one.


And, by special request from mr_joey132, i will try and work on some Ganon stuff before April 28 (which is a long time so I'll most likely have it all up, if not at least a few good tips to help you out!)



enjoyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pressthebutton]

against samus: SPAM laserssssssss. cannot stress that enough. in my experience, i would say samus does great against agressive, non spammy falcos but struggles against spammy, campy falcos. counter pick FD, spam lasers, and shffl attacks through her shield. dont attack her shield too often, cuz samus' upB out of shield works wonders, especially against shield pressuring falcos.

edit: sees that he just posted what was basically already there..............lol

 

[Ryan-K]

spam lasers and dair is better for approaching her because its alot harder to CC also get her in the air and **** and if she shields i personally either grab or ftilt but if you feel like getting ***** then attack her shield with a nair lol

 

[Mogwai]

I definately don't aggree with everything that's gone up since I last checked this thread, but it looks like it's more or less on the right track, so I'll save that criticism for later. Right now I'm bored and feel like writing a guide


Ice Climbers

Falco - 50% ICs - 50%

-Most characters have their games thrown off by the "there's f*cking 2 of them!" factor of the Ice Climbers and Falco is no exception. Most people ellect not to play falco in this matchup, instead switching to Fox, Marth, or Peach to counter the ICs, but that being said, the matchup is not terrible.
-As always, lasers are a key to victory here. You need to disrupt their practiced desyncs and keep them off of the approaches they feel comfortable with. Also, lasers help you do what I'm about to tell you next:
-Don't get grabbed. If you value your life, don't ever let them get a clean grab on you. They can CG if they have nana do a dair off the dthrow, or they can just Wobble you and then fthrow fsmash kill you. If just popo gets a grab on you while nana has gone AWOL, mash to get out of the grab, you can't let them get time to set up grab combos. Setting you DI isn't as important as getting the f*ck out of there before nana gets in position.
-Two shields = different hitlag than one shield. This means that you have to change your l-cancel timing on the SHFFLed arial to shine, or you will get shield grabbed like no other. Most IC players can figure out if you know this timing or not fairly quickly, so make sure you hit your lcancels early and often.
-Shine -> Bair is your main way of seperating the ICs. SHFFLed sex kicks lead into this nicely so use this liberally against them. Once seperated, quickly evaluate the situation: Is there any chance I can just kill popo? Is nana in an easy position to be dair spiked? Which one flew further (has higher %)? These are the questions you should ask yourself while landing from your bair. Once you've figured it all out, make an executive decision about which one to try to kill and follow through until the other one comes to their aid. In general, at low % on popo, I try to kill nana, otherwise I just try to end the life by killing popo. Again, this is a judgement call, just make the call and follow through with it.
-IC dsmash is often lights-out for Falco as low as 50% if you don't set your DI. Watch out for ICs WDing out of shield -> dsmash after you knock them away with a dair -> shine. If you see it coming, make sure to DI up to maximize your chance of living.
-ICs have trouble gaurding the sweetspot, but will absolutely wreck you if you go high on the recovery. Their principle edgegaurd is either dsmash or desyncing nana to Blizzard by the edge while charging fsmash with popo. Both of these will wreck you if you ever get hit, so your #1 priority should be the sweetspot on recovery, usually with the forward b rather than the up b at a downward angle (up b can be hit by the blizzard and then fsmash *****). If they notice you always sweetspotting, they'll start just doing edgehogs, at which point, you obviously have to switch it up.
-ICs have a terrible up-down arial game. Your dair and utilt can dominate their up-down game, so make them play from the sides where you lasers give you the edge.
-Alot of this matchup just boils down to playing smart. Pick your trades wisely. If Nana is skidding and Popo is shielding, just fsmash the ***** if she's at a high enough % and concede the grab to Popo. It's usually worth it to kill Nana if it costs you 40-50% since a single ICs only real means of wrecking you are dsmash and bair.
-Always remember than Nana is a computer, and as such can be gimped in much the same way. She doesn't turn around or use forward b while recovering, just level 9 DJ timing, so know when it is, and laser her for easy Nana kills.
-ICs are light and die easily to dtilt and uair/shine kills off the top. dsmash also does well in this matchup as it's good for seperating them.
-Counterpick moving stages like Rainbow Cruise. ICs are basically unplayable on these levels.

Good Match: PC Chris vs Chu Dat
http://www.mlgpro.com/?q=node/45417

 

[xelad1]

I don't know if anyone suggested this but I think this is a good video to illustrate how to play a samus matchup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtK_sj-ut1M Its a little old (FC3) but mathos sure knows how to use them lasers.

 

[invertigo]

ill try ganon

-ganon's game is pretty simple. if you are losing to a ganon it is likely because you are getting outspaced by him.
-pay attention to the ganon's habits. for example if he likes to shuffle fair -> jab dont try to shield grab. watch for shuffle jabs in general.
-watch out for jabs in general too they are like a slow shine, a "get off me" move
-play fast against him and use lasers and speed to your advantage.
-if youre going to use lasers alot, be careful. ganon can pop in really quick with a fair if youre caught SHLing in place. use alot of rSHL and full jumped lasers because ganons will approach from the air most likely.
-fighting close up makes it harder for him because of your speed. the standard pillaring pressure works well along with jabs. be quick or he will jump out of shield and aerial you.
-once shined you should know what to do, its similar to most of the other characters just shine dair etc.
-he will try to come in with unexpected fairs and bairs but thats basically all he can do so dont get tricked by his movement. most of his attacks has alot of priority.
-edgeguarding him is a cinch. dairs own. you can try hanging onto the edge and popping up with a dair when he comes back. its like guarding a slow falcon.
-not that hes a good edgeguarder, but falco's recovery sucks. he will try to dair or dtilt. often times he can jump out and uair you so try to use a quick phantasm and use it unexpectedly.
-if you get knocked down stay down and see what hes doing, dont get techchased and daired.
-oh yeah and watch your rolling because if he sees it coming, a dsmash will end you. if you are fighting him up close and he sees you rolling, he will dsmash ftw.

i hope nothings wrong. i cant think of anything else

 

[Mogwai]

You're over-complicating ganon. . . SHL >>>>>>> Ganon. He is big, he is slow, and he has no answer to you shooting his big evil *** up. Just keep him off balance, and evenutally you'll see openings to combo, at which point, he's like a bigger, slower sheik, which makes comboing easy as pie. Ganon has insane combos on you if he lands a dair, avoid it like the plague, but this shouldn't be too hard if you're using your lasers wisely and paying attention to platforms. Seriously, this matchup is a slam dunk, and one you should ALWAYS win, just play smart.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

Whoo! Updated! Finished Samus for now, unelss you want to add tips, added Wesley's IC match-up and invertigo's ganon match up. Good stuff guys! Keep it coming :-D what characters are we looking for now?

 

[blast_ssbb]

i say the plumbers...doc and mario are more annoying than luigi but i can seem to get around any of the 3. oh and i need tips for fighting bums DK and dj nintendo and warriorknights bowsers... lol ****ing mid and low tiers have so many combos on my poor falco.....

 

[Brookman]

i say the plumbers...doc and mario are more annoying than luigi but i can seem to get around any of the 3. oh and i need tips for fighting bums DK and dj nintendo and warriorknights bowsers... lol ****ing mid and low tiers have so many combos on my poor falco.....

Don't approach DJ nintendo ever. Just shoot lasers at him. In fact, just use lasers 100% of the time, don't bother with any other moves. Same goes for every other character. Just shoot lasers.

 

[blast_ssbb]

lol thanks brookman. lasers ftw

 

[mr_joey132]

who or what is DJ nintendo? :/

 

[invertigo]

You're over-complicating ganon. . . SHL >>>>>>> Ganon. He is big, he is slow, and he has no answer to you shooting his big evil *** up. Just keep him off balance, and evenutally you'll see openings to combo, at which point, he's like a bigger, slower sheik, which makes comboing easy as pie. Ganon has insane combos on you if he lands a dair, avoid it like the plague, but this shouldn't be too hard if you're using your lasers wisely and paying attention to platforms. Seriously, this matchup is a slam dunk, and one you should ALWAYS win, just play smart.

are you serious or do you actually believe that? every character can be played well. you honestly think there is no ganon that can beat you? take one look at the video in the first page, rob$ loses to a good ganon. this is the whole reason gamer made this thread so we can compile advice against every character. even though falco is top tier there is much to learn about every matchup. i know at least 2 ganons that will probably wipe the floor with you and beat my falco half the time. this is why i know so much about this matchup because ive played and lost good ganons and know the tricks of their game/what not to do. seriously though are you better than rob$? didnt think so.

 

[Mogwai]

are you serious or do you actually believe that? every character can be played well. you honestly think there is no ganon that can beat you? take one look at the video in the first page, rob$ loses to a good ganon. this is the whole reason gamer made this thread so we can compile advice against every character. even though falco is top tier there is much to learn about every matchup. i know at least 2 ganons that will probably wipe the floor with you and beat my falco half the time. this is why i know so much about this matchup because ive played and lost good ganons and know the tricks of their game/what not to do. seriously though are you better than rob$? didnt think so.

Aparently I hit a nerve. Yes, I have played good ganons. And yes, I have lost to them. However, after playing and losing to them, I too know the matchup and the fact remains that SHL > Ganon. I don't know what's offensive about this statement, Ganon's will admit it too. And about Rob$, sure, he's probably better than me, but that's besides the point. Joe Bushman's probably just as good as him and YS is the one stage that can't be controlled with SHL, so as far as this matchup's concerned, that's the one stage where you really have to be careful. I lost a match to Renth (probably the best Ganon in PA) because we didn't have Dave's Stupid Rule, so he got to play and beat me twice on YS. BFD, I still took him out in the Finals because Falco is a rediculous Ganon counter and you are seriously ignorant if you think otherwise. I'm not ranked or even considered good in PA, and he's top 10, so yea, I've got a good reason for saying what I said. I stand by my statement and think you're absolutely insane for taking so much offense to me simplifying this matchup for you.

QFTW:

In fact, just use lasers 100% of the time, don't bother with any other moves. Same goes for every other character. Just shoot lasers.

Brookman knows what's up.

 

[pockyD]

-ICs have a terrible up-down arial game. Your dair and utilt can dominate their up-down game, so make them play from the sides where you lasers give you the edge.

wrong wrong wrong

IC u-air is one of the few moves in the game that will straight-up beat falco's dair

important-> if the IC player shields your shine, if you FJ out of your shine, you WILL eat a uair to the face, often followed by another uair or a bair... you must either WD or SH out

but IC down game is in fact terrible... it's almost always advisable to CC the dair and get a free smash/shine/whatever you want (dsmash can be especially painful for nana, killing her at stupid low percentages)

1 more thing... don't be afraid to grab, given that you dthrow immediately

hi alan and wes, happy climber-slaying

 

[invertigo]

hey im gonna make one for dr. mario since theres a thread about it and its my brother's main. gamer see if i missed anything important.

-if at all possible try to play in a platform stage. this gives falco a huge advantage because pills are less dangerous with platforms around and it also gets rid of the chaingrab problem. i like FoD.
-always l-cancel. mario's grab game is pretty deadly because of his insane bthrow and CG
-the laser is much more effective than the pill. you just have to play smart. you need to space correctly. for example, on FD if you are getting pilled use some RSHL until you are out of range. once you hit him with a SHL he cannot get another one out unless he jumps.
-if he does a pill from full jump you can run under it. also remember that most of the time you can aerial right through a pill. its like samus' missile priority.
-his nair gets stronger as it stays out. watch out for it.
-if he capes the laser start SHLing closer until hes in a punishable range.
-his edgeguarding game is alright, he can drop down from the platform with an aerial, he can use any number of ground attacks at the edge, and he can cape. i like to go over him, or sweetspot. try to be unpredictable. phantasming works well too but if you land on the ledge he can punish your lag.
-the standard combos work on him. use the shine dair utilt etc combos. watch out though because sometimes he can sex kick out.
-edgeguarding him is easy you can just grab the ledge. use firebird stalls to maintain invincibility and use the drop-jump-dair trick if you have to. but most of the time you can just roll on because his recovery is terrible too. lightshielding doesnt work.

 

[invertigo]

Aparently I hit a nerve. Yes, I have played good ganons. And yes, I have lost to them. However, after playing and losing to them, I too know the matchup and the fact remains that SHL > Ganon. I don't know what's offensive about this statement, Ganon's will admit it too. And about Rob$, sure, he's probably better than me, but that's besides the point. Joe Bushman's probably just as good as him and YS is the one stage that can't be controlled with SHL, so as far as this matchup's concerned, that's the one stage where you really have to be careful. I lost a match to Renth (probably the best Ganon in PA) because we didn't have Dave's Stupid Rule, so he got to play and beat me twice on YS. BFD, I still took him out in the Finals because Falco is a rediculous Ganon counter and you are seriously ignorant if you think otherwise. I'm not ranked or even considered good in PA, and he's top 10, so yea, I've got a good reason for saying what I said. I stand by my statement and think you're absolutely insane for taking so much offense to me simplifying this matchup for you.

QFTW:

Brookman knows what's up.

lol. i completely agree that i overreacted. i dont know why but i felt that your quote was really silly. and brookman is joking too im sure. lasers dont solve all but they sure help.

but about that ignorant thing, didnt i mention in my previous post that falco is top tier and has advantages to most characters? i already established that so no need to repeat. that said there are still things to learn against every character, hence this entire thread was born. point is lower tiers can beat you if the player is better and this thread is to teach the tricks against all the characters.

and wasnt your original statement that you should always win against a ganon? you really stand by that? especially considering the YS case you just made against yourself. saying things like just laser is saying that this thread is useless. even if you disagree, remember that someone REQUESTED a ganon guide be made. sure youll probably win against most ganons. but were collecting guides for every matchup remember?

oh yeah and i apologize for my tone. that was uncalled for my bad. ill keep it civil

 

[Mogwai]

wrong wrong wrong

IC u-air is one of the few moves in the game that will straight-up beat falco's dair

important-> if the IC player shields your shine, if you FJ out of your shine, you WILL eat a uair to the face, often followed by another uair or a bair... you must either WD or SH out

but IC down game is in fact terrible... it's almost always advisable to CC the dair and get a free smash/shine/whatever you want (dsmash can be especially painful for nana, killing her at stupid low percentages)

1 more thing... don't be afraid to grab, given that you dthrow immediately

hi alan and wes, happy climber-slaying

yea yea, I was tired when I posted that. My bad dude, I know all too well about the uair, because of a certain IC player from Pittsburgh. . . But anyway, I was more talking about how they can't F with you from above, and due to this limitation, they're forced to try to go through lasers rather than above them, which changes the game dynamic as oposed to say, a Fox, Ganon, or Captain Falcon, who can just go up and challenge your utilt with their dair. uair is potentially a beating, but the sideways hitbox of the dair is still better than that of IC uair, so there is a spacing that works out for you, it's just tough to get down unless you play with IC's every day .

Oh, and that grabbing thing is only sorta true. If you see if coming, I know I'm facing a full fledged dsmash in the face, unless it's when you're just chillin' in your stupid light shield when I respawn.

 

[Mogwai]

lol. i completely agree that i overreacted. i dont know why but i felt that your quote was really silly. and brookman is joking too im sure. lasers dont solve all but they sure help.

but about that ignorant thing, didnt i mention in my previous post that falco is top tier and has advantages to most characters? i already established that so no need to repeat. that said there are still things to learn against every character, hence this entire thread was born. point is lower tiers can beat you if the player is better and this thread is to teach the tricks against all the characters.

and wasnt your original statement that you should always win against a ganon? you really stand by that? especially considering the YS case you just made against yourself. saying things like just laser is saying that this thread is useless. even if you disagree, remember that someone REQUESTED a ganon guide be made. sure youll probably win against most ganons. but were collecting guides for every matchup remember?

oh yeah and i apologize for my tone. that was uncalled for my bad. ill keep it civil

And to Invertigo. . . sure, a player who's way better than you will always kick your teeth in, regardless of how terrible the matchups is. Just watch Chu play Pichu sometime for proof. I've seen plenty of tourny vids of d@mn respectable players getting beaten by Chu's Pichu, when their character should never lose the matchup. That doesn't mean that Sheik or Marth or whoever Chu's been wrecking lately, shouldn't win vs. Pichu, just that he's that F'in' good. So, that's why I'm saying you should never lose the matchup. The fact is, Ganon's hate playing smart Falco's who use the laser well and love playing over-aggressive Falco's who get close enough for Ganon to space a fair or dair on them. So, play smart, ***** that laser and make the Ganon's life a veritable hell on earth. Don't let them start combos and just be aware of the platform space above you (which is the whole stage on YS). And yes, I stand by the statement that you should always win a match against a ganon. Random games happen where you'll get outspaced, get frustrated, and play bad, but if you keep a level head, they should never be able to pull out a best of 3, especially with Dave's Stupid Rule.

EDIT: sorry for the double post, my bad. . .

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

haha this thread became a huge argument that, sucks lol. well through this bickering i've spotted out a few good points here and there that i may be adding later on to this guide. as for your dr mario match up invertigo, i'll add that later today too. we've got cleaning and stuff to do around the house so i'm a little busy. so STOP ARGUING! it's easter dudes. enjoy your days


HAPPY EASTER!!

 

[invertigo]

is the IC hammer disjointed hitbox?

i think the argument is over. im pretty sure me and wesley know the exact same thing we are just wording differently. after all none of us have said anything the other doesnt know lol.

pichu is pretty cool if you dont know how to fight him. edrees effed my falco up with pichu the first few times lol

 

[Mogwai]

is the IC hammer disjointed hitbox?

Yes, every IC move with the A button has a disjointed hitbox. Come to think of it, maybe they all do. Either way, the hammers are disjointed.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

I dont know about the IC's hammer being disjointed, and I've never fought a Pichu before lol. so uh if you want to work on a pichu one be my guest lol. or you and wesley can do it toegether to avoid arguing ftw. just giving you guys a hard time. I wish i could put a poll on here so people could vote on which characters to do next and stuff but i'm not a mod or premium... so lets see.

invertigo took care of dr. mario
mario match-up is pretty similar isn't it? dunno never fought too many plumbers only doc.
i dont' know much about pichu

what about a mr. g&w one since so many people are using him agaisnt falco's now-a-days? lol

or i can work on a bowser one, or link? which one's do you all think?



edit: wesley answered the question abou the IC's hammer lol so nvm now i do know


eidt2: wesley can i add you on AIM to talk to you about these match-ups and stuff when i need help?

 

[Mogwai]

I dont know about the IC's hammer being disjointed, and I've never fought a Pichu before lol. so uh if you want to work on a pichu one be my guest lol. or you and wesley can do it toegether to avoid arguing ftw. just giving you guys a hard time. I wish i could put a poll on here so people could vote on which characters to do next and stuff but i'm not a mod or premium... so lets see.

invertigo took care of dr. mario
mario match-up is pretty similar isn't it? dunno never fought too many plumbers only doc.
i dont' know much about pichu

what about a mr. g&w one since so many people are using him agaisnt falco's now-a-days? lol

or i can work on a bowser one, or link? which one's do you all think?



edit: wesley answered the question abou the IC's hammer lol so nvm now i do know


eidt2: wesley can i add you on AIM to talk to you about these match-ups and stuff when i need help?

Yup, that's fine by me. I will be fairly busy over the next few days, but eh, that's never stopped me from talking about Smash before, so feel free to fire IMs my way whenever I'm not idle (idle = working on graphics or robotics or playing smash).

 

[invertigo]

oooh. ive never played a good bowser or gw before im curious to see what there is

 

[Mogwai]

G & W is super fun to play against. You know how Falco likes to pressure shields? Well, G & W doesn't really have one, so after one pillar, you start hitting him, it's pretty lame for him but super fun and easy for you. dtilt's annoying and fair can be a problem, but without a shield, you don't really stand much of a chance against Falco.

 

[blast_ssbb]

who or what is DJ nintendo? :/

according to a certain website( ill post the link when i find it again) he's currently the 5th best bowser in the world.

oooh. ive never played a good bowser or gw before im curious to see what there is

well bowser is easy to fight after u know the gayness that comes with the big guy. lol i guess ill right a mini guide...
-his get up attack from the ledge has super range and incredible priority so most bowsers will abuse it while they are below 100%. it works to knock u back off the ledge if u try to phantasm or firebird at ground level so watch out for it. the way i get around it is i run to the edge and block. the attack will roll past u then come back towards the edge where u just grab him.
-after 100% bowser has 3 options to get up from the ledge. a ledge-hopped koopa klaw, a ledge-hopped f-air, or just ledge-hop to waveland. dont camp in ur shield bcuz the koopa klaw is a grab and he can grab from the air so try to mind game: side step the claw, block the f-air, grab if wavelands and blocks.
- his up-b out of shield is just as annoying as samus's. it does less dmg but it is definitely more annoying.he can up-b then spin away from u as to avoid being punished and he can grab the edge just by spinning to it. grabs own in this matchup. shl to grab= easy dmg.
- if ur able to land a shine dont be afraid to go for the combo. bowsers a big target so take advantage and rack up the dmg.
- his edgeguard game is insane: f-tilts, d-tilts, fire breath, ledge wake up, f-air, b-air. all of these moves **** falco's recovery. bowser will try to f-air, or b-throw u(whether regular throw or koopa klaw) to get u off the edge. once he's off try hard to mindgame ur recovery or ur gonna find ur self dead b4 50%.
-bowsers up-air is a godly mind game. it has such a long start up time that u can jump away and come down and still land in it. when u see bowser jump straight up below u dont jump just fast fall or hit him first. dont ever waste ur double jump on him unless ur getting a guaranteed hit.
- stages to avoid are low ceiling stages and stages with low platforms: for example yoshi story and FoD. bowsers up-tilt, up-b, and up-smash will all kill u from under the platforms without much trouble. i personally like FD as lasers>>>bowser. Dreamland is alright if u dont mind bowser surviving alot he's not as dmg'ing there but he survives for ever.
-most of my kills on bowser are d-airs on his recovery... its almost impossible to kill him up and if he knows how to DI properly ur not killing him off the sides b4 150%. try to edgehog so that he tries to go over than jump up and get him b4 he lands, his up -b has no lag if he does it in the air.
-without proper DI bowser has a weird *** chaingrab that i cant explain really cuz i always DI so ive yet to be caught but ive seen DJ nintendo do it on others so all i can say is DI the upthrow. also ALWAYS DI the koopa klaw as if he was throwing u back. its almost as strong as ness's back throw but alot quicker so u might find urself very far off the stage if u DI badly and the koopa klaw b-throw can kill u at 80% with no DI if it catches u offguard.
if any more advice is needy just ask away all though i doubt unless ur playing gimpy fish or in NY playing killa fleet u dont need help with bowsers

 

[Nightblade]

How about Luigi? There's a couple of really good Luigi's in my area, one of whom seems to get a match against me every tournament, and ***** me hard.

 

[blast_ssbb]

yea if wesley or someone else is upto it i would love to see a lil luigi guide... theres a luigi around my area that forever ***** me... dam i hate killa fleet.....

 

[mr_joey132]

What do I do against a constantly caping doc? just wait till the cape's away and then try to punish or is there a way to hurt him during the cape?

 

[invertigo]

a constantly caping doc is like a marth who abuses counter. dont keep falling for it, mix up your moves and approaches. if you think about it, the only way he can cape you is if he can predict you. so just dont be predictable. in general marths and docs who abuse their stuff get owned agaisnt good players. my friend doesnt even counter anymore because i never fall for it.

 

[Oskurito]

I'll like to see some advice against jigglypuff

 

[invertigo]

oh me too can someone do jigz

 

[Mogwai]

I'll get Jiggs this weekend, should be around sunday. I can get the Marios too, but I honestly don't have enough Luigi experience to give good advice. I just laser the hell out of Luigis and they lose, so i can't really be of much help on that matchup.

 

[Oskurito]

Luigi cannot be comboed if he knows how to DI the shine properly and if he doesn't DI he will likely interrupt you with a sex kick if you try to follow with a dair, anyway i think there's a percentage were you can score a 5 (or 6, I don't remember) hit combo on luigi if he doesnt DI. But seriously, Lasers>Luigi just be gay and you should be OK

 

[mr_joey132]

Why do I always read "Trying to use marth to create the tier list" when I see Wesley's sig, lol.

but Invertigo, if I mix up and do a Fsmash instead of a Dair it'll still be caped, lol.

 

[invertigo]

i didnt mean do a different move lol. i meant mindgame around it. put in some dash dances and wavedashes to juke them. obviously he is predicting you so be unpredictable and move around alot.

 

[mr_joey132]

hmm but if I do that too close, I still get caped, and if I do that too far away he wil do another cape because I have to walk to him... and Marth's counter is easier to pwn, because you can just jump past him and then Bair or something.. doc's cape capes if you don't do an attack. :/