Pillow
Smash Lord
I imagine for all of them it’ll be the big judges gavel followed by the courtroom doors closing.
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Character Exploration Thread - Day 79: Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)
- Thread starter SharkLord
- Start date
Cutie Gwen
Lovely warrior
Considering that Edgeworth seeks the truth of the case in court, he'd corner you the same way Nick does so they can be the same
D
Deleted member
Guest
If it's the Judge showing up like in MvC, the only difference I can think of is Edgeworth getting a Guilty verdict and Phoenix getting Not Guilty. To make it make sense maybe have Phoenix defend Larry vs. whoever he catches in the Final Smash?
Sonsa
Smash Champion
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Oh hey, ahh, Phoenix Wright!! Current discussion is Wright vs Edgeworth's final smash? I personally want them to work together, and it ends with the Judge calling for order. I kinda animated it in my big Phoenix Wright for Smash concept video! I was ganna share it, but I see it's already been shared here, daww <3 I still get such sweet comments I appreciate endlessly and I still agree with most of the thoughts I shared there, I wouldn't change much. I really tried to share as much as I could with get-up animations, boxing ring titles, Palutena's Guidances... Hmm... I could have probably done better on the classic routes maybe...
So when thinking of what to share now, hmm... I still think Edgeworth could be a great echo, but would require more animation changes and some moves would have to be entirely different imo which might restrict Phoenix from being more himself... I still think Apollo's the perfect echo. They're different and I'd want some animations changed a bit, but overall they have way more similar uh mannerisms so less work in changing them would leave a more natural feeling end result. Ideally we'd get Edgeworth and Apollo AND Mia AND Ryunnosuke AND Athena AND aaah haha
It's funny, no one outside of Ace Attorney could fight like Phoenix or the others, they offer a completely unique, interesting, and fun moveset, but they still have a nice bunch of echo possibilities!
...oh, I haven't really said anything new still that I haven't already said in my video...hmm...well I guess I'll pipe up when I have something new to say, but just some quick bullet points, I don't see a natural grab other than the Magatama, I really hope Maya is an important part of Phoenix's moveset, and if I hear Turnabout Sisters officially in Smash I think I'd cry so relieved
So when thinking of what to share now, hmm... I still think Edgeworth could be a great echo, but would require more animation changes and some moves would have to be entirely different imo which might restrict Phoenix from being more himself... I still think Apollo's the perfect echo. They're different and I'd want some animations changed a bit, but overall they have way more similar uh mannerisms so less work in changing them would leave a more natural feeling end result. Ideally we'd get Edgeworth and Apollo AND Mia AND Ryunnosuke AND Athena AND aaah haha
It's funny, no one outside of Ace Attorney could fight like Phoenix or the others, they offer a completely unique, interesting, and fun moveset, but they still have a nice bunch of echo possibilities!
...oh, I haven't really said anything new still that I haven't already said in my video...hmm...well I guess I'll pipe up when I have something new to say, but just some quick bullet points, I don't see a natural grab other than the Magatama, I really hope Maya is an important part of Phoenix's moveset, and if I hear Turnabout Sisters officially in Smash I think I'd cry so relieved
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Cutie Gwen
Lovely warrior
Oh ****, I linked your videoa page or two back, amazing job with that, I think I'd genuinely be disappointed if Sakurai doesn't use your final smash idea, also loved the extra step you took with your Spirit showcase as nobody seems to do that, fantastic stuff all around
Sonsa
Smash Champion
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Oooh, this would definitely be in the trailer...
Edgeworth: "Wright" [suspense starts playing] "there's...a piece of evidence you absolutely must see... Something I believe you've...overlooked..."
Phoenix: ...!
I've always liked the idea of Phoenix's trailer being like their old TGS presentations but this time they're revealing/arguing why Phoenix has to join Smash while Phoenix doesn't want to go and get eaten by Yoshi or f-smashed by Pyra pwshh
And aww, thanks a bunch, I appreciate it lots and lots! <3 It took a long time to make but I'm real happy with the result, and still getting comments two years later about how clear my passion is or how not that bad my doodles are always gets me smiling!
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amageish
Smash Master
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I'm just going to quickly circle back to spirit things as I've been offline for a moment...
Maya seems like she could be a Chrom-with-Robin-esque "Appears on the victory screen" situation to me... I'm thinking of the kind of poses she does in the duo puzzles from Layton vs Wright? Excited emotional support Maya haha.
That all makes sense to me! Gumshoe as a novice spirit feels like a somewhat obvious joke, with Edgeworth probably being the Legendary spirit? Or Silver Samurai if they feel like being funny...
Maya seems like she could be a Chrom-with-Robin-esque "Appears on the victory screen" situation to me... I'm thinking of the kind of poses she does in the duo puzzles from Layton vs Wright? Excited emotional support Maya haha.
The prosecutors/defense seems like a good set! Naruhodo as the legendary spirit would be funny haha. I do wonder how much he'd be willing to dip into TGAA or the Investigations games. Smash is inconsistent with their treatment of spin-offs and side-series....The prosecutors and defense attorneys is probably my go to option for Spirit Board, there's already enough of them in the game lol, and also Maya because she's very important. My suggestion for a legend spirit has to be Naruhodo so that means no Ema Skye or Kay
This seems like a prime candidate for a remix to me, as it's definitely iconic, but maybe not the most Smash-ready in its current form?
ahemtoday
Smash Ace
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Yeah, you'd definitely need to remix it, but I have no idea what a remix would sound like. It's, like, three chords. There's not even a melody.
I dunno, maybe you just grab a guitar and freestyle a solo on top of it or something...
amageish
Smash Master
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Maybe they could do, like, a "Courtroom Medley"? Remix a bunch of the most common songs that play in basically every trial into one long song?
Obviously you'd still want "Objection" and such standalone, but it's not like especially iconic songs haven't gotten multiple tracks before...
Sonsa
Smash Champion
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You could make a remix kind of how Gen 5 of Pokemon made a remix out of the old low health beeps, but I can also see suspense fitting the most naturally as part of a transition in a medley? - Oh wow, as I typed that the above message appeared ha! Yeah, a medley! Like... a cheerier tune, maybe even just "Happy People", then the sound effect for new information leading to suspense being established as a baseline with the first games cross examination theme kicking in blended with it!
D
Deleted member
Guest
Decided to throw together the rest of my Phoenix & Edgeworth moveset. It's gonna be really barebones with the descriptions but whatever. I did take some ideas from this thread while making it.
On the whole I do think Edgeworth could work as an echo, as long as the moveset doesn't heavily really on Phoenix's wacky antics. If that kind of thing is saved for the miscellaneous character animations instead it'd be mostly fine, with maybe only a few stretches to fit both.
- Jab: Slap -> Knee -> Finger point
- Ftilt: Phoenix/Edgeworth perform their respective paper holding pose
- Dtilt: Metal Detector
- Utilt: Presents a bottle of Coldkiller X above them
- Dash Attack: Isabelle's but with the Sacred Urn
- Fsmash: Take that! speech bubble
- Dsmash: Desk slam
- Usmash: Present the Thinker clock/Prosecutor's trophy above them
- Nair: Sneeze
- Fair: Presents Samurai Spear
- Bair: Hold it!
- Uair: Sprays luminol above them
- Dair: Drops Max's bust below them
- Grab: Just a grab
- Pummel: Whacks you with paper
- Fthrow: Throws while doing an objection motion
- Bthrow: Discards enemy like they're done reading a paper
- Uthrow: Weak throw up, scattering papers
- Dthrow: Missile attacks, surprising Phoenix/Edgeworth
- Side Taunt: Strike their confident poses & flash their badges
- Up Taunt: Maya/Kay give them a pep talk
- Down Taunt: Phoenix gets coffee on his face, Edgeworth takes a bow
- Victory 1: Phoenix chugs grape juice, Edgeworth strikes his confident pose before taking a bow
- Victory 2: Maya/Kay show up with their shell calling card drawing/promise notebook, Phoenix strikes his abashed pose at the praise while Edgeworth points, feigning annoyance
- Victory 3: Strike objection poses
- Lose Screen: Phoenix sweats, Edgeworth uses his dismayed face
- Idle: Phoenix strikes his thinking pose, and shakes his head between cycles. Edgeworth crosses his arms to think, wagging his finger between cycles.
- Crouch: Inspects the ground closely
- Hitstun: Shocked faces
On the whole I do think Edgeworth could work as an echo, as long as the moveset doesn't heavily really on Phoenix's wacky antics. If that kind of thing is saved for the miscellaneous character animations instead it'd be mostly fine, with maybe only a few stretches to fit both.
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SharkLord
Smash Hero
From what I can gather of the series, maybe Mia? She's Phoenix's mentor and Maya's sister, so it seems like she has a pretty big impact on the series.
ahemtoday
Smash Ace
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If we're putting together a Spirit Board, I can at least pick out the characters just by taking the major recurring ones.
No particular order to it. Incidentally, the Judge spirit would have to be disambiguated from the spirit of the Game & Watch game of the same name. I always find that interesting.
- Maya Fey
- Mia Fey
- Larry Butz
- **** Gumshoe
- Trucy Wright
- Apollo Justice
- Athena Cykes
- Winston Payne
- Miles Edgeworth
- Franziska von Karma
- Judge (Ace Attorney)
No particular order to it. Incidentally, the Judge spirit would have to be disambiguated from the spirit of the Game & Watch game of the same name. I always find that interesting.
Sonsa
Smash Champion
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Oh yes, Mia would absolutely have to be legendary! Hm... Most DLC boards seem to go to like 12ish, I wanna share 16 just cause that's a full 2 pages, but beyond that would be unusual for what we've got so far, but also Megaman and Street Fighter DID get a lot of spirits. But yeah! That's a good list up there, I'd also recommend...well I guess I'll just fully recommend:
You might be able to do some enhancement ones, but ahhh, I dunno, and I wouldn't want them to risk anything too spoiley anyway I guess!
Maya I hope would be a Fighter Spirit along with Phoenix, an important part of the moveset
1. Larry Butz - Novice
2. Myriam Scuttlebutt - Novice (This is the most joke one, just Snake taunting)
3. Charley - Novice (Ivysaur just standing around)
4. Gumshoe - Advanced
5. Pearl Fey - Advanced
6. Judge - Advanced (King DDD, G&W Side-B Spam, or both)
7. Edgeworth - Ace
8. Franziska - Ace
9. Godot - Ace
10. Apollo - Ace
11. Trucy - Ace
12. Klavier - Ace
13. Athena - Ace
14. Blackquill - Ace
15. Mia Fey - Legend
16. Manfred von Karma - Legend
1. Larry Butz - Novice
2. Myriam Scuttlebutt - Novice (This is the most joke one, just Snake taunting)
3. Charley - Novice (Ivysaur just standing around)
4. Gumshoe - Advanced
5. Pearl Fey - Advanced
6. Judge - Advanced (King DDD, G&W Side-B Spam, or both)
7. Edgeworth - Ace
8. Franziska - Ace
9. Godot - Ace
10. Apollo - Ace
11. Trucy - Ace
12. Klavier - Ace
13. Athena - Ace
14. Blackquill - Ace
15. Mia Fey - Legend
16. Manfred von Karma - Legend
You might be able to do some enhancement ones, but ahhh, I dunno, and I wouldn't want them to risk anything too spoiley anyway I guess!
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SharkLord
Smash Hero
I love the sudden jump from paperwork and gestures to "Suddenly, missiles."
Dan Quixote
Smash Lord
Oh sick this thread started a couple days ago! I’ve been hyped for the idea since I saw it in the main speculation thread last week. Plus we’re starting with one of my most wanteds ever so that’s even more hype. I’ve got one big conversation piece to add that I’ve thought about for years.
What would Phoenix Wright’s stage be like? Obviously there’d need to be an Ace Attorney stage if the series was added to Smash, but how would that even play out? I’m sure you all know that the most common suggestion would be the Courtroom, one of the only recurring locations in the series. Buuuut... what wouldthe stage even do? A courtroom is a small enclosed space with a few tables and chairs. (Honestly Japanifornia’s courtrooms are fancy, my local courtroom uses aluminum chairs.) So would it just be a walkoff that has the attorneys’ benches or witness stand in the background? That would make for decent cameo potential, but not a very interesting stage. Maybe seeing Larry and Gumshoe oaf about in the back is enough for most people but eh, I like unique platform layouts and stuff. King of Fighters Stadium has something similar, but at least it has the really cool wall mechanic. And the benches are probably too small to make for believable extra platform
So yeah, that’s eluded me ever since I started thinking of Phoenix in Smash. How would you guys make an Ace Attorney stage?
Personally, my second best idea is to make the stage the second-most recurring location: Kurain Village. It certainly looks pretty and has potential for both cameos and platforming, but it’s not super representative of the franchise is it?
What would Phoenix Wright’s stage be like? Obviously there’d need to be an Ace Attorney stage if the series was added to Smash, but how would that even play out? I’m sure you all know that the most common suggestion would be the Courtroom, one of the only recurring locations in the series. Buuuut... what wouldthe stage even do? A courtroom is a small enclosed space with a few tables and chairs. (Honestly Japanifornia’s courtrooms are fancy, my local courtroom uses aluminum chairs.) So would it just be a walkoff that has the attorneys’ benches or witness stand in the background? That would make for decent cameo potential, but not a very interesting stage. Maybe seeing Larry and Gumshoe oaf about in the back is enough for most people but eh, I like unique platform layouts and stuff. King of Fighters Stadium has something similar, but at least it has the really cool wall mechanic. And the benches are probably too small to make for believable extra platform
So yeah, that’s eluded me ever since I started thinking of Phoenix in Smash. How would you guys make an Ace Attorney stage?
Personally, my second best idea is to make the stage the second-most recurring location: Kurain Village. It certainly looks pretty and has potential for both cameos and platforming, but it’s not super representative of the franchise is it?
ahemtoday
Smash Ace
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Oh, no, Missile's a dog.
SharkLord
Smash Hero
...Okay, that makes sense. It's just that with some of the stuff that goes on in Ace Attorney, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an actual missile attack in the games.
ShrimpScampi
Smash Journeyman
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Actually, bringing up Missile reminds me of the other Missile: the one from Ghost Trick, which was another game made by the series producer of AA. It got me thinking, when Phoenix was added to UMvC3, one of his alts referenced Sissel and Lynne, two of Ghost Trick's main characters:
Could you see any Ghost Trick references being added to Phoenix's Challenger Pack? I would love to see something, but my guess is that it would probably stick to AA content. Ghost Trick was kind of in a perfect spot timing-wise when UMvC3 came out -- it was released on the DS right before UMvC3, and the AA franchise hadn't yet gotten into the 3DS games, so Phoenix still only had his classic design.
Still, I would love to see even something small in Smash when it comes to Ghost Trick. I could maaaybe see a single music track (probably 4 Minutes Before Death Variation or the main theme), or a small animation reference in Phoenix's moveset. For exmaple, what if in one of his moves with Missile, there's a chance of it being the Pomeranian Missile from Ghost Trick rather than the Shiba Missile from AA? Purely cosmetic, but a fun reference nonetheless.
(also play Ghost Trick -- it's got an iOS port, and Ghost Trick's Missile is legitimately one of my favorite characters in gaming)
(Just look at that face, how can you not love him?)
Could you see any Ghost Trick references being added to Phoenix's Challenger Pack? I would love to see something, but my guess is that it would probably stick to AA content. Ghost Trick was kind of in a perfect spot timing-wise when UMvC3 came out -- it was released on the DS right before UMvC3, and the AA franchise hadn't yet gotten into the 3DS games, so Phoenix still only had his classic design.
Still, I would love to see even something small in Smash when it comes to Ghost Trick. I could maaaybe see a single music track (probably 4 Minutes Before Death Variation or the main theme), or a small animation reference in Phoenix's moveset. For exmaple, what if in one of his moves with Missile, there's a chance of it being the Pomeranian Missile from Ghost Trick rather than the Shiba Missile from AA? Purely cosmetic, but a fun reference nonetheless.
(also play Ghost Trick -- it's got an iOS port, and Ghost Trick's Missile is legitimately one of my favorite characters in gaming)
(Just look at that face, how can you not love him?)
amageish
Smash Master
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I think the dog attack is taken directly from MvC too, where he can summon the good boi to fight with a couple moves...
I mean, if they used the courtroom from SoJ, then they'd have a lot more room with the divination pond and such... I feel like a courtroom is an obligatory stage choice, but, yeah, it's hard to imagine how it would work out physically...
Yes, I 100% could imagine Ghost Trick getting an alt in Smash. I don't thin it's a safe bet and I could see them sticking to just other lawyer pallets, but there's a lot of references in Smash alts that are based on associated IPs already...Actually, bringing up Missile reminds me of the other Missile: the one from Ghost Trick, which was another game made by the series producer of AA. It got me thinking, when Phoenix was added to UMvC3, one of his alts referenced Sissel and Lynne, two of Ghost Trick's main characters:
Could you see any Ghost Trick references being added to Phoenix's Challenger Pack? I would love to see something, but my guess is that it would probably stick to AA content. Ghost Trick was kind of in a perfect spot timing-wise when UMvC3 came out -- it was released on the DS right before UMvC3, and the AA franchise hadn't yet gotten into the 3DS games, so Phoenix still only had his classic design.
Still, I would love to see even something small in Smash when it comes to Ghost Trick. I could maaaybe see a single music track (probably 4 Minutes Before Death Variation or the main theme), or a small animation reference in Phoenix's moveset. For exmaple, what if in one of his moves with Missile, there's a chance of it being the Pomeranian Missile from Ghost Trick rather than the Shiba Missile from AA? Purely cosmetic, but a fun reference nonetheless.
(also play Ghost Trick -- it's got an iOS port, and Ghost Trick's Missile is legitimately one of my favorite characters in gaming)
(Just look at that face, how can you not love him?)
As for non-alt content... I guess it just depends on how much they would go all-out. Like, some people here have it focusing on AA1-3, others on AA1-6, others on AA1-6 + TGAA and Investigations... I don't think Ghost Trick would get anything unless they were going all-out, but, like, non-zero chance of a spirit or a song if they were going full SNK with it.
I could also see a Mii Costume, given how much they love costumes based on associated IPs. With Capcom already having a lot of costumes in the game, I imagine it'd have to be more in the direction of VN and investigation costumes (Ghost Trick for Capcom, Famicom Detective and Hotel Dusk for Nintendo, maybe Layton if they wanna call up Level-5, etc).
SmashSSL
Smash Apprentice
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I'd like, if it's a courtroom, for it to reference Dual Destinies and have an exploding ceiling and falling debris as the stage hazard
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
I don't know if I'll make this a thing or not, but I think I'll mention how avalible the daily character's games are, in the event someone is convinced to try the series.
Nick has it really good. Every modern system has the Phoenix Wright trilogy available for download. It starts at $20, but Capcom games go on sale frequently so it might as well be $15 (or less!). There's also the upcoming remakes of the Great Ace Attorney, which don't feature Wright.
Nick has it really good. Every modern system has the Phoenix Wright trilogy available for download. It starts at $20, but Capcom games go on sale frequently so it might as well be $15 (or less!). There's also the upcoming remakes of the Great Ace Attorney, which don't feature Wright.
AnEasterEgg
Smash Journeyman
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I think it'd be really funny if the Judge comments on the match in the courtroom stage, like Gramps in Cloud Sea of Alrest.
ShrimpScampi
Smash Journeyman
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If you don’t want to pull out your DS/3DS for the later games, there are also mobile ports of Apollo Justice, Dual Destinies, Spirit of Justice, and Ace Attorney Investigations, although right now DD and SoJ are only on Android devices. I bought the Android version of Dual Destinies on the Google Play store on BlueStacks, and that’s what I’m playing now for my replay, so you can play the newer games on PC if you’re fine with using a mouse to navigate menus.
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
How long will we be talking about a given character?
SharkLord
Smash Hero
Two days. We'll be moving on to the Adol around 4-5 PM PST tomorrow, since that's around the time Phoenix's day started
D
Deleted member
Guest
As far as Ace Attorney games go, I’m really hoping the series makes a comeback. We have DGS finally getting localized, and in the coming years I’d like to see a 4-6 trilogy release (maybe call it the Apollo Justice trilogy?) & an Investigations collection just so more people have the opportunity to play them. Investigations 1 & 2 are some of the highlights of the series so it’s a shame 2 never got localized. But most of all I need AA7. Give me Athena Cykes: Ace Attorney you cowards! Athena is a contender for my favorite character in the series and she’s been setup to take a starring role in a potential new release, so I’d love to see her finally have her chance in the spotlight.
Commander_Alph
Smash Lord
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Don't want to divert the Ace Attorney talk too early but I wonder if Sharklord will bring up their "SSBU X Ys" page on Fantendo. I'm asking this just because I want to make my own page too and I don't know jackship about formatting lol.
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SharkLord
Smash Hero
Yes, all in due time...
Ruler of Subspace
Smash Apprentice
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is it okay if i get a tl;dr of everything that's happening here
im interested in this thread
im interested in this thread
SharkLord
Smash Hero
A couple notes/questions on how this is being run
- For the extra nominations, I'm thinking this would require about three/four paragraphs for writeups to garner extra noms. In addition, gameplay elements would require a full concept and not just a vague idea/suggestions. Would this be fair?
- Do you think we need the second day or no? Discussion has slow today, and I'm thinking that we should only do one day unless we're still talking about something, in which I'll extend the duration a little.
We talk about characters for two days, then go on to another. In-between those discussions, we get to nominate characters to talk about, with extra nominations being added depending on how much you've contributed to the conversation.
amageish
Smash Master
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1. This seems fair, I think? I think it's best of extra nominations are both treated as and seen as just that - extras for people who happen to have contributed a lot to the day - as opposed to, like, a standard people should always strive to meet just so their nomination goes through faster?
2. Maybe play it by ear I guess? 24 hours definitely seems to be a good minimum.
True Blue Warrior
Smash Hero
Are you allowed to ask about what music tracks Phoenix Wright could bring with him?
Yiptap
Smash Lord
1. Seems fair. I'm still wondering about how many noms a person gets normally.
2. No second day. The first day had a lot of discussion, this day had almost none.
2. No second day. The first day had a lot of discussion, this day had almost none.
SharkLord
Smash Hero
Based on the time we started discussing Phoenix, his day should be ending in about an hour. Technically, it should end in half an hour, but I'm giving a grace period in case any other topics sprout up.
Yes, music is definitely allowed
5 noms is the default, just like with RTC
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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At what point can we submit noms here?
SharkLord
Smash Hero
I'd say when Phoenix's round ends. In future events it should probably start now, but I need time to count all the extra noms and distribute them accordingly
SharkLord
Smash Hero
Alright, I've calculated all the noms. I've been fairly conservative with how I hand them out; You'll need three proper paragraphs for writeups to count, and a concrete idea(s) for a move/moveset idea to count. I've also awarded a couple points for giving info on the availability of the games, as that helps out newcomers to the series. Conversely, music didn't count towards the noms. For future reference, should music count towards extra noms, and if so, how should we go about the specifics for that? We're still working out the kinks here, so any feedback would be appreciated.
Anyways, the following people have extra noms:
I'm gonna close out Phoenix discussion here. You have about an hour to submit your nominations; The next topic, Adol Christin, will start up between 5 PM and 6 PM, Pacific Time.
Nomination: League of Legends rep x15
Anyways, the following people have extra noms:
-
ahemtoday
- x10 - C chocolatejr9 - x5
-
amageish
- x5 - @Autumn Breeze - x5
-
ShrimpScampi
- x15 -
Yiptap
- x5 -
SharkLord
- x10 -
Commander_Alph
- x5 -
Sonsa
- x10 -
Dan Quixote
- x5 -
PeridotGX
- x5
Nomination: League of Legends rep x15
Yes, even if you don't discuss a character you still have 5 noms to submit