Character Discussion Thread

[Maxilian]

Better remove every single character with a hatebase then!

Ermmm what? where did i said that? wait... don't tell me you went to a different universe where i said that?! :O

oks... O.T, all character have a hatebase, but want it or not, Tingle have a really big hatebase, he's hatebase is as big (or bigger) as his fanbase (he's a really popular character in Japan), that's why many of his game only came out in Japan, also... he was going to appear in Twilight Princess but thanks to the community he was taken out....

 

[Kenith]

There are some interesting Zelda characters, but in the long run they just aren't important enough to make the cut.

Before anyone brings up Sheik, remember that Sheik was originally a transformation for Zelda; she wouldn't have made it otherwise. No point in taking her out though, since she's essentially a staple to the series now

Why would they ever add her if she wasn't "important" enough? Zelda would've stood out fine on her own, she didn't need to be tied to a one-off alias.

The point is, she was added, and was still considered a separate character, so she is by no means an exception.

 

[Deleted member]

Ermmm what? where did i said that? wait... don't tell me you went to a different universe where i said that?!

I'm just going off of your saying Tingle can't be playable because of his hatebase. Clearly if one character with a hatebase can't be playable, then none of them should be playable (and to a lesser extent)

 

[Louie G.]

Sheik is an exception because she was added mainly to add to Zelda's playstyle.
Sakurai must have thought a transformation character would be interesting, and with Ocarina of Time fresh in his mind Zelda/Sheik was a good idea.

Let's be honest here; if Zelda was always a solo fighter, nobody would have even considered Sheik. Zelda's transformation is the sole reason that she made it in. Similarly, Squirtle and Ivysaur wouldn't have made it in without Pokemon Trainer. Charizard is popular enough to warrant his own slot, however. As for Sheik, why cut a series staple?

Sheik, Squirtle, and Ivysaur are considered seperate characters by Sakurai, but their original inclusion wouldn't have happened without Zelda and Pokemon Trainer, respectively.

 

[Kenith]

Sheik is an exception because she was added mainly to add to Zelda's playstyle.
Sakurai must have thought a transformation character would be interesting, and with Ocarina of Time fresh in his mind Zelda/Sheik was a good idea.

Let's be honest here; if Zelda was always a solo fighter, nobody would have even considered Sheik. Zelda's transformation is the sole reason that she made it in. Similarly, Squirtle and Ivysaur wouldn't have made it in without Pokemon Trainer. Charizard is popular enough to warrant his own slot, however. As for Sheik, why cut a series staple?

Sheik, Squirtle, and Ivysaur are considered seperate characters by Sakurai, but their original inclusion wouldn't have happened without Zelda and Pokemon Trainer, respectively.

Why does it matter?

She was added because she was interesting. She's still a one-time character who was included.
But that didn't matter because she was interesting in Sakurai's eyes.

So being "unimportant" clearly doesn't matter. And frankly, Sheik is plenty important. She was a major character in one of Nintendo's biggest, baddest games ever.

 

[Louie G.]

So being "unimportant" clearly doesn't matter. And frankly, Sheik is plenty important. She was a major character in one of Nintendo's biggest, baddest games ever.

I never said Sheik is unimportant, what I said is that she wouldn't have made it into the game without Zelda's transformation mechanic. It's not much of a debate: again, would Squirt and Ivy had made it into Brawl without the help of their Trainer?

Ocarina of Time is one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time, so if you like to think of Sheik as an OoT rep, that makes sense.

 

[Kenith]

I never said Sheik is unimportant, what I said is that she wouldn't have made it into the game without Zelda's transformation mechanic. It's not much of a debate: again, would Squirt and Ivy had made it into Brawl without the help of their Trainer?

But you did indirectly call Sheik unimportant; you called characters who only appeared in one game, like Ghirahim, Skull Kid (who has appeared in more than game, so that's not correct) and Midna were not important enough to be included in Smash, and then compare them to Sheik, but then you say Sheik is an exception because she is another version of Zelda.

 

[Louie G.]

But you did indirectly call Sheik unimportant; you called characters who only appeared in one game, like Ghirahim, Skull Kid (who has appeared in more than game, so that's not correct) and Midna were not important enough to be included in Smash, and then compare them to Sheik, but then you say Sheik is an exception because she is another version of Zelda.

Sheik isn't important enough to add into Smash solo, but she's an important character from an important game.
And by solo I mean in Melee, Smash 4's different since she'd already been in two games.

Being an iteration of Zelda is what got her in the game.
Sakurai must have played OoT and said "hey, a Zelda/Sheik transformation gimmick would be pretty cool".

If a transformation character never came to mind, I'd bet that Zelda makes it in without Sheik.
But it's all hypothetical, Sheik is in the game.

 

[Maxilian]

I'm just going off of your saying Tingle can't be playable because of his hatebase. Clearly if one character with a hatebase can't be playable, then none of them should be playable (and to a lesser extent)

As i said before, you can't compare Tingle hatebase with all those characters hatebase (also in most of those cases, there are more people that like those character or the hatebase is not really a hatebase, is just people that don't want those characters in smash not that they hate the character)

 

[Rockaphin]

Sheik is an exception because she was added mainly to add to Zelda's playstyle.
Sakurai must have thought a transformation character would be interesting, and with Ocarina of Time fresh in his mind Zelda/Sheik was a good idea.

Let's be honest here; if Zelda was always a solo fighter, nobody would have even considered Sheik. Zelda's transformation is the sole reason that she made it in. Similarly, Squirtle and Ivysaur wouldn't have made it in without Pokemon Trainer. Charizard is popular enough to warrant his own slot, however. As for Sheik, why cut a series staple?

Sheik, Squirtle, and Ivysaur are considered seperate characters by Sakurai, but their original inclusion wouldn't have happened without Zelda and Pokemon Trainer, respectively.

I agree, but I must say that I think Squirtle is arguably a very good choice for a returning character. He may not be on Mewtwo's level but I personally think he's not too far behind. Poor Ivysaur.

 

[Louie G.]

I agree, but I must say that I think Squirtle is arguably a very good choice for a returning character. He may not be on Mewtwo's level but I personally think he's not too far behind. Poor Ivysaur.

Poor Ivysaur is the issue.
Why have Charizard and Blastoise lines without the Venusaur line? It's kinda unfair and it doesn't seem like something Gamefreak would allow to happen.

And Squirtle's a little redundant with Greninja around anyway.

 

[Second Power]

I agree, but I must say that I think Squirtle is arguably a very good choice for a returning character. He may not be on Mewtwo's level but I personally think he's not too far behind. Poor Ivysaur.

Naw, Squirtle's lost his niche. Water type aerial-based character who's slippery (more in the metaphorical sense than literal) has been taken by Greninja. Ivy still has her unique grass aesthetic as well as her zoning style with an emphasize on anti-air.

If either of PT's remaining pokemon decide to pull a Shiek, I feel like Ivy has the best odds.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I'm pretty sure we all know that Vaati is the best choice for a (reasonable) Zelda newcomer.

 

[Maxilian]

I'm pretty sure we all know that Vaati is the best choice for a (reasonable) Zelda newcomer.

I'm pretty sure you mean Ghirahim

NOTE: I would like to have Vaati but i prefer Ghirahim

 

[Louie G.]

I'm pretty sure you all mean Tingle.

 

[ihskeyp]

Impa>>>>Every other possible Zelda newcomer

 

[DraginHikari]

I guess when it comes to the Zelda series, I'm pretty good with what we had previously. No one I'm really clamouring for these days.

 

[egaddmario]

But you're all wrong- Sheik's appeared in multiple games:

Ocarina of Time
Ocarina of Time Master Quest
Ocarina of Time 3D
The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition

 

[Kenith]

Impa>>>>Every other possible Zelda newcomer

I agree. Impa is my kind of woman.

Especially the one in Zelda 2.

 

[ihskeyp]

I agree. Impa is my kind of woman.

Especially the one in Zelda 2.

I would love to see Impa with her Hyrule Warriors look, but her Zelda 2 appearance would be...... An interesting choice lol

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I wouldn't mind Vaati or Impa being playable, but I don't want Ghirahim, he can be an assist trophy. Either way I think Ganondorf is the only Zelda character left to be revealed, other Zelda characters can be DLC.

 

[Pazzo.]

Poor Ivysaur is the issue.
Why have Charizard and Blastoise lines without the Venusaur line? It's kinda unfair and it doesn't seem like something Gamefreak would allow to happen.

And Squirtle's a little redundant with Greninja around anyway.

In retrospect, Ivysaur hardly ever had a chance, but it was more or less the popularity of Squirtle and 'Zard that got her a spot.

 

[Kenith]

I would love to see Impa with her Hyrule Warriors look, but her Zelda 2 appearance would be...... An interesting choice lol

Unfortunately, I don't think Hyrule Warriors will have any bearing on Smash Bros's roster.

I used to think otherwise, particularly for Ghirahim. I thought that the roster was limited, so that if Ghirahim were playable in Hyrule Warriors, that would indicate they want to promote him as a character, and he had a larger chance for Smash Bros. However, seeing as even freaking bug girl Agitha and Fi are getting roster spots now, that obviously doesn't mean anything.

Though that doesn't mean I don't think he's happening.

 

[Rockaphin]

I'm disappointed that both Squirtle and Ivysaur have a very low chance of return. I agree that Squirtle doesn't really have much going for him now that Greninja is here, but he played much differently. Honestly, water typing and quick movements is all that's similar. Outside of Smash, Squirtle is extremely iconic and very relevant to this day so on paper, he would make an excellent choice in my opinion.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Unfortunately, I don't think Hyrule Warriors will have any bearing on Smash Bros's roster.

I used to think otherwise, particularly for Ghirahim. I thought that the roster was limited, so that if Ghirahim were playable in Hyrule Warriors, that would indicate they want to promote him as a character, and he had a larger chance for Smash Bros. However, seeing as even freaking bug girl Agitha and Fi are getting roster spots now, that seems a bit less likely.

Though that doesn't mean I don't think he's happening.

Just because one character gets in Hyrule Warriors does not mean that helps their chances by much when concerning SSB4. Ghirahim's biggest opponents for getting in SSB4 are Ganondorf and Ganon, the King of Evil himself.

 

[Kenith]

Just because one character gets in Hyrule Warriors does not mean that helps their chances by much when concerning SSB4. Ghirahim's biggest opponents for getting in SSB4 are Ganondorf and Ganon, the King of Evil himself.

Um, I know. That's what I just said.

And Ganondorf's not competing with anybody, he's already in the game.

 

[Louie G.]

Ganondorf's in no matter what.
We're pretty much confirmed .

The question is whether we'll get one more character to add onto that.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Um, I know. That's what I just said.

And Ganondorf's not competing with anybody, he's already in the game.

Oh...sorry I did not catch that. And agreed about Ganondorf; however, I think Sword moveset Ganondorf is competing against Captaindorf.

 

[Kenith]

I believe we'll get a Zelda newcomer based on arbitrary fan theories.

Two, in fact.

Arbitrary Fan Theory #1:

The trophies shown in the April Smash Bros.-focused Nintendo Direct are all tied to characters that will be playable.

They were, in order, Tiki (Fire Emblem Awakening), Fi (Zelda: Skyward Sword), Pseudo-Palutena (Kid Icarus: Uprising), and King Ki-Hunter (Metroid Other M). According to the fans, the characters that these trophies secretly reveal are a Fire Emblem Awakening character, Ghirahim, Palutena, and Ridley.

Arbitrary Fan Theory #2:

Each of the main Nintendo franchises will get a character from their most prominent Wii and 3/DS game/series (theory courtesy of @ Louie G. )
For example, Super Mario Galaxy gets Rosalina & Luma, Metroid Other M gets Ridley, Fire Emblem Awakening gets Chrom/Robin/Lucina, and Zelda Skyward Sword gets Ghirahim.

 

[Louie G.]

(theory courtesy of @ Louie G. )

Huh, that's ironic. Because here I am arguing against a Zelda newcomer.

I remember this theory though; I do think it holds some relevance.

 

[Kenith]

Huh, that's ironic. Because here I am arguing against a Zelda newcomer.
I remember this theory though; I do think it holds some relevance.

It is ironic. Exactly why I pointed it out, actually. I still don't know why your demeanor has completely flipped on me.

And some relevance? What reason is there not to believe it?
Particularly the second as it's actually based on logic?

I should Palutena for Uprising to that list, as well.
Kid Icarus counts, I'd say. As does Little Mac and Punch-Out Wii, to a degree.

 

[queenrosetta]

Idk why everyone is arguing about what characters should and shouldn't be in. Bc we have miis everyone is playable

 

[egaddmario]

Ganondorf's in no matter what.
We're pretty much confirmed .

The question is whether we'll get one more character to add onto that.

I'm good with this honestly. I don't think anyone else is necessary.

 

[Kenith]

Idk why everyone is arguing about what characters should and shouldn't be in. Bc we have miis everyone is playable

Right.

And when everyone's a Super Smash Brother...
No one will be.

 

[Louie G.]

@ Kenith
After E3, I pretty much went full on Gematsu.
Mii Fighters and Sneaky Spirit kind of sealed the deal for me. I've just become more doubtful in other characters because of Sakurai's comments in the past (more emphasis on balance and Sakurai's specific mention of a 50 character roster). 48 slots and 50 characters just seems really likely to me, and at this point I'm pretty convinced that's what'll happen.

I guess the reason my opinion has changed is because of my view on the roster. Ridley is looking less likely than before, Ghirahim I'm not really sure what to think of... We already have characters based off of this theory but it doesn't mean that every character involved would be included.

I'm sorry for my change in demeanor; you're still a good friend of mine. Our views just differ drastically.
Personally I don't know how much room Gematsu would leave for other newcomers. My faith is increasing in K. Rool, and I'll probably have a little confidence boost in Ridley sooner or later.

But I'm pretty confident in a 50 character roster (given that Miis count as 3 characters, that is). I'd much rather talk about how potential candidates could play: not fan theories or "deservingness". I really want people to bring up what a character could do in the game: why they should be in Smash due to what abilities they possess.

I know I was talking about how there are many minor characters in the Zelda universe that probably won't be chosen, but I also believe that there is a certain importance that a character must reach to be considered, exceptions being Pokemon and Fire Emblem. Zelda usually isn't one to choose characters based on the most recent game, but we'll see.

 

[Kenith]

@ Kenith
After E3, I pretty much went full on Gematsu.
Mii Fighters and Sneaky Spirit kind of sealed the deal for me. I've just become more doubtful in other characters because of Sakurai's comments in the past (more emphasis on balance and Sakurai's specific mention of a 50 character roster). 48 slots and 50 characters just seems really likely to me, and at this point I'm pretty convinced that's what'll happen.

You almost sound disappointed that's your belief.

 

[Louie G.]

You almost sound disappointed that's your belief.

I'm not disappointed that we're getting Little Mac, Palutena, Chorus Kids, and probably Mewtwo.
K. Rool and Ridley would be nice, but I have great characters already.

It's just disappointing that the pleasure of speculation is gone. Everything goes back to Gematsu, and it gets a little annoying from both sides. Neither side is swayed. Believers believe, non-believers don't.

But I'm not going to go against what I believe. I do think that we're getting Gematsu. I think that the roster will be 50 characters. I am disappointed that this doesn't leave much room for other awesome characters (K. Rool, Ridley, Isaac, Paper Mario), but I'm content with my speculated roster.

What's also upsetting is that it's affecting friendships that I have here on the boards.
You and I can't go a day without arguing.

 

[False Sense]

@ Kenith
After E3, I pretty much went full on Gematsu.
Mii Fighters and Sneaky Spirit kind of sealed the deal for me. I've just become more doubtful in other characters because of Sakurai's comments in the past (more emphasis on balance and Sakurai's specific mention of a 50 character roster). 48 slots and 50 characters just seems really likely to me, and at this point I'm pretty convinced that's what'll happen.

I guess the reason my opinion has changed is because of my view on the roster. Ridley is looking less likely than before, Ghirahim I'm not really sure what to think of... We already have characters based off of this theory but it doesn't mean that every character involved would be included.

I'm sorry for my change in demeanor; you're still a good friend of mine. Our views just differ drastically.
Personally I don't know how much room Gematsu would leave for other newcomers. My faith is increasing in K. Rool, and I'll probably have a little confidence boost in Ridley sooner or later.

But I'm pretty confident in a 50 character roster (given that Miis count as 3 characters, that is). I'd much rather talk about how potential candidates could play: not fan theories or "deservingness". I really want people to bring up what a character could do in the game: why they should be in Smash due to what abilities they possess.

I know I was talking about how there are many minor characters in the Zelda universe that probably won't be chosen, but I also believe that there is a certain importance that a character must reach to be considered, exceptions being Pokemon and Fire Emblem. Zelda usually isn't one to choose characters based on the most recent game, but we'll see.

So, you think the Gematsu newcomers are all we're getting, yet last I checked, you seemed to have absolute confidence in Mewtwo. That seems a bit odd to me.

 

[Second Power]

Just today figured out a way to stay loyal to the almighty, all knowing Gematsu while creating an unexpected roster.

Spoiler

Roster is serious.
But the line at the top is satire of satire.

 

[Louie G.]

So, you think the Gematsu newcomers are all we're getting, yet last I checked, you seemed to have absolute confidence in Mewtwo. That seems a bit odd to me.

Mewtwo isn't a newcomer in my book.
He was in Melee and he's been planned for every single Smash so far.

Mewtwo is a bit of a special case, but he's not a newcomer.
He's included in my 50 character roster.