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Character Discussion Thread

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JamesDNaux

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changing the subject here, but would anyone like a different final smash for G'dorf? I saw some Ganon discussion some pages back that I was too late for, so I kinda thought I'd chime in with two cents. I'd love it if they used a different form of beast Ganon for the FS. Like Lttp or Oot. I feel like his current one is boring, since all it does is charge across the screen.
With the probability of Ganondorf gaining use of his sword, I would love to see a sort of hybrid bipedal version of his different Ganon forms as a final smash. Have it work like Giga Bowser where you can play as him for the allotted time, with the trident replacing the sword.
 
D

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Star Fox is fine with three characters, and I wouldn't even mind a fourth. Mother is fine where it is as well, but I don't think it will ever get a new character unless the series starts back up again.
I dunno....I'm pretty sure whenever someone says "[Franchise name} is fine with [Current number of reps] but I wouldn't mind more!" and then Sakurai actually adds another character from the same franchise, people will quickly change their tunes.
 
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Glyphoscythe

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I wouldn't mind Beast Ganon in his OoT or LttP form. Otherwise, I would enjoy a new Final Smash. I honestly want Ganon as a playable character, not a Final Smash. Other than that, I thought that Ganondorf's Final Smash was fairly useful for the most part.
Yeah I mean I don't dislike it, I just think it could get spiced up a bit at the very least. If they want to stick with the Twipri style, he could do something related to the horseback part of the battle too, like send out those ghost riders.

Just Ganon as a playable character would be tight as hell. 10/10 would main. Also, I've always been a fan of the Black Shadow taking over the Falcondorf set idea that you mention from time to time.
 

jweb22

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I believe the mentality of "series representation" to be a load of it, to put it bluntly. There is no "over-representation."

I'd hardly like to see ten Mario and Pokemon characters while everyone else gets a single character besides Zelda and DK.

Star Fox is fine with three characters, and I wouldn't even mind a fourth. Mother is fine where it is as well, but I don't think it will ever get a new character unless the series starts back up again.
Sorry but I completely disagree. This isn't Playstation All-Stars were Sony has a limited number of IPs to represent. This is a Nintendo allstars game and Nintendo has a s**tload of different IPs that all have their cult fanbases. So it is very possible that a series can be "over represented." I'd have no problem with the StarFox series having 3 or even 4 reps as long as we got a Golden Sun rep, Xenoblade rep, Chibi-Robo, Takamura, Rhythm Heaven rep, Advanced War rep and that's just off the top of my head as I'm sure a lot of others could list more. If I believe correctly, StarFox hasn't had a new/non-remake game in almost a decade while quite a few very popular IPs have had successful games and probably won't get a playable rep. Does it really make sense that the currently "DEAD" series of StarFox have more reps than Donkey Kong???

I understand that everyone looks at things differently but the ONLY way for StarFox to not appear to be "over represented" is for a lot of other IPs to have playable representation.

Now if Mario and Pokemon somehow went over 6 reps each (I do NOT include Yoshi and Wario as Mario reps) then I would say that those two franchise are a bit overboard on representation too. Back to my original point, this is Nintendo and they have a LOT of IPs that have faithful fanbases, so it is possible for a franchise like StarFox, which is currently DEAD, to be over represented.
 
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D

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The Reflector. Wolf's blaster obviously uses different ammunition which results in different utility, animation, hit-box, and hit-stun. It also has a usable blade at the base.
Though to be fair, Wolf's Reflector has a seldom-noticed property Fox's doesn't have.
Fox has a single frame of invincibility as the Reflector is instantaneous. Wolf's has a delayed start, but he's invincible in all frames before it is fully active. It makes for use as a "counter" of sorts, shrugging off an attack from an opponent, and then zapping them with the Reflector.

And then there's the deal that it sends projectiles at almost twice their original speeds at the cost of a lower damage/knockback boost than Fox's (or Falco's), which doesn't affect speed.


Yeah, it isn't applied differently like Falco's is, but even with the move being closer to Fox than any other of Wolf's moves, it's still got some considerable differences.
[/endnerdanalysis]
 
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Morbi

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Sorry but I completely disagree. This is Playstation All-Stars were Sony has a limited number of IPs to represent. This is an Nintendo allstars game and Nintendo has a s**tload of different IPs that all have their cult fanbases. So it is very possible that a series can be "over represented." I'd have no problem with the StarFox series having 3 or even 4 reps as long as we got a Golden Sun rep, Xenoblade rep, Chibi-Robo, Takamura, Rhythm Heaven rep, Advanced War rep and that's just off the top of my head as I'm sure a lot of other could list more. If I believe correctly, StarFox hasn't had a new/non-remake game in almost a decade while quite a few very popular IPs have had successful games and probably won't get a playable rep. Does it really make sense that the currently "DEAD" series of StarFox have more reps than Donkey Kong???

I understand that everyone looks at things differently but the ONLY way for StarFox to not appear to be "over represented" is for a lot of other IPs to have playable representation.

Now if Mario and Pokemon somehow went over 6 reps each (I do NOT include Yoshi and Wario as Mario reps) then I would say that those two franchise are a bit overboard on representation too. Back to my original point, this is Nintendo and they have a LOT of IPs that have faithful fanbases, so it is possible for a franchise like StarFox, which is currently DEAD, to be over represented.
No, there is no such thing as over-representation. The very notion is subjective.
 

Morbi

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I'll simply agree to disagree as I do not feel like filling a page of commentary on the topic.
It doesn't exist, bro.

Though to be fair, Wolf's Reflector has a seldom-noticed property Fox's doesn't have.
Fox has a single frame of invincibility as the Reflector is instantaneous. Wolf's has a delayed start, but he's invincible in all frames before it is fully active. It makes for use as a "counter" of sorts, shrugging off an attack from an opponent, and then zapping them with the Reflector.

And then there's the deal that it sends projectiles at almost twice their original speeds at the cost of a lower damage/knockback boost than Fox's (or Falco's), which doesn't affect speed.


Yeah, it isn't applied differently like Falco's is, but even with the move being closer to Fox than any other of Wolf's moves, it's still got some considerable differences.
[/endnerdanalysis]
So what you are telling me is that they do not share any moves?! Wolf is a really ****ty semi-clone. He doesn't even share a move. No wonder everyone wants him cut.
 

jweb22

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It doesn't exist, bro.
Like I said, I won't waste time arguing the subject. As you said yourself it's subjective and as I said, everyone looks at things differently. So to you and a few others, it doesn't exist, but to me and a few others, it does!
 

Morbi

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Like I said, I won't waste time arguing the subject. As you said yourself it's subjective and as I said, everyone looks at things differently. So to you and a few others, it doesn't exist, but to me and a few others, it does!
Objectively speaking, it doesn't matter if you believe it exists, and it doesn't matter if I believe it doesn't exist. The only person that matters in regards to this notion would be the creative director, Sakurai.
 
D

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You know what I believe?

I believe I don't give a **** about whether or not "overrepresentation" exists or not.

Let's talk about how Mario and Goku are apparently "bros". :troll:
 

jweb22

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Objectively speaking, it doesn't matter if you believe it exists, and it doesn't matter if I believe it doesn't exist. The only person that matters in regards to this notion would be the creative director, Sakurai.
Well DUH...he's the main creator of the series. Just because he's the creator doesn't mean everything he puts in is perfect or that fans can't consider certain things to be mistakes or mishaps. If that's the case then every movie is worthy of an Oscar or every book is worthy of being a Best Seller, but that's not the case. Everything deserves criticism to a certain level and possibly over representation of certain series is one of them.
 
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Morbi

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Well DUH...he's the main creator of the series. Just because he's the creator doesn't mean everything he puts in is perfect or that fans can't consider certain things to be mistakes or mishaps. If that's the case then every movie is worthy of an Oscar or every book is worthy of being a Best Seller, but that's not the case. Everything deserves criticism to a certain level and possibly over representation of certain series is one of them.
Well DUH... that is utterly overt. I am merely insinuating that it is immaterial, over-representation is a fan-term. Personally, it doesn't matter if Star Fox gets 6 characters. I care about game-play; the characters are nice to speculate on, but at the end of the day, characters need to be fun. So I don't care if they come from Mario or Zelda. I don't care if Star Fox is dormant. I highly doubt the creative director does either. You can support a huge list of characters that will never make it into Smash Brothers all you want, it doesn't change that fact that none of them are going to incite Sakurai to remove a Star Fox character or whatever you want to happen.
 

TeenGirlSquad

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Let's talk about how Mario and Goku are apparently "bros". :troll:
Is that Peach in a suit and bowtie?

Well DUH...he's the main creator of the series. Just because he's the creator doesn't mean everything he puts in is perfect or that fans can't consider certain things to be mistakes or mishaps. If that's the case then every movie is worthy of an Oscar or every book is worthy of being a Best Seller, but that's not the case. Everything deserves criticism to a certain level and possibly over representation of certain series is one of them.
The Oscars aren't really the best metric of worth.
 
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@ TeenGirlSquad TeenGirlSquad

Yes. Yes it is.



Now, so that no one goes "ERMAGHERD GOKU IN SMASH NAO", here's where the image comes from:

A commercial for the Korean console Super Comboy from Hyundai. Yes, that Hyundai.
Back when Japanese goods were banned in South Korea; Nintendo struck a deal with Hyundai to release their systems under the Hyundai label. And since no one can do anything about it in South Korea.....we get Mario singing and dancing with Goku, the Ninja Turtles, Ryu and Chun-Li, Buster Bunny, etc.
 

TeenGirlSquad

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@ TeenGirlSquad TeenGirlSquad

Yes. Yes it is.



Now, so that no one goes "ERMAGHERD GOKU IN SMASH NAO", here's where the image comes from:

A commercial for the Korean console Super Comboy from Hyundai. Yes, that Hyundai.
Back when Japanese goods were banned in South Korea; Nintendo struck a deal with Hyundai to release their systems under the Hyundai label. And since no one can do anything about it in South Korea.....we get Mario singing and dancing with Goku, the Ninja Turtles, Ryu and Chun-Li, Buster Bunny, etc.
Should have been the Smash roster.
 

jweb22

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Well DUH... that is utterly overt. I am merely insinuating that it is immaterial, over-representation is a fan-term. Personally, it doesn't matter if Star Fox gets 6 characters. I care about game-play; the characters are nice to speculate on, but at the end of the day, characters need to be fun. So I don't care if they come from Mario or Zelda. I don't care if Star Fox is dormant. I highly doubt the creative director does either. You can support a huge list of characters that will never make it into Smash Brothers all you want, it doesn't change that fact that none of them are going to incite Sakurai to remove a Star Fox character or whatever you want to happen.
Gameplay and over representation are 2 completely different things! So let's get that out of the way first.

Also, I never said any of the StarFox characters needed to be cut (even though I hate clone characters so I wouldn't care if Falco got cut). All I've said is that StarFox is the prime example of a series being over represented as there are a plethora of other IPs that don't and probably still won't have playable representation in this iteration of Smash. And exactly how would you know that those characters wouldn't be "fun" to play as? There are quite a few characters that I don't like playing as but I know others really enjoy them. Questioning whether certain characters could be "fun" to play as is truly subjective.
 

Morbi

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Gameplay and over representation are 2 completely different things! So let's get that out of the way first.

Also, I never said any of the StarFox characters needed to be cut (even though I hate clone characters so I wouldn't care if Falco got cut). All I've said is that StarFox is the prime example of a series being over represented as there are a plethora of other IPs that don't and probably still won't have playable representation in this iteration of Smash. And exactly how would you know that those characters wouldn't be "fun" to play as? There are quite a few characters that I don't like playing as but I know others really enjoy them. Questioning whether certain characters could be "fun" to play as is truly subjective.
Not really; if a character is more suited to the diversity of the roster, but they happen to come from whatever series is "over-represented," then the two have a shared correlation.

Okay, if it is over-represented, what is another feasible way to mitigate the problem? You implied that adding a bunch of worthless characters would make Star Fox less over-represented for some reason. But that isn't really plausible.

When I asserted "fun" I meant unique. Unique is fun to me, hence the subjective title attributed to the notion.
 

jweb22

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Not really; if a character is more suited to the diversity of the roster, but they happen to come from whatever series is "over-represented," then the two have a shared correlation.

Okay, if it is over-represented, what is another feasible way to mitigate the problem? You implied that adding a bunch of worthless characters would make Star Fox less over-represented for some reason. But that isn't really plausible.

When I asserted "fun" I meant unique. Unique is fun to me, hence the subjective title attributed to the notion.
So Isaac, Shulk, possible Rhythm Heaven rep, Takamaru and maybe even Chibi-Robo or Duck Hunt Dog are worthless characters???

And Falco is really unique considering Fox???

Yeah, you and I will NEVER agree on this!
 

Morbi

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So Isaac, Shulk, possible Rhythm Heaven rep, Takamaru and maybe even Chibi-Robo or Duck Hunt Dog are worthless characters???

And Falco is really unique considering Fox???

Yeah, you and I will NEVER agree on this!
Not necessarily individually, but collectively? Yes.

I didn't insinuate that Falco is unique.

No, we will not.
 

Will

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So Isaac, Shulk, possible Rhythm Heaven rep, Takamaru and maybe even Chibi-Robo or Duck Hunt Dog are worthless characters???

And Falco is really unique considering Fox???

Yeah, you and I will NEVER agree on this!
He doesn't think that.

EVERYBODY knows he prefers the Wolf-Meister :troll:
 

JamesDNaux

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Also, I never said any of the StarFox characters needed to be cut (even though I hate clone characters so I wouldn't care if Falco got cut). All I've said is that StarFox is the prime example of a series being over represented as there are a plethora of other IPs that don't and probably still won't have playable representation in this iteration of Smash.
The problem with this line of thinking, is that StarFox having "too many" characters has nothing to do with other franchises getting characters or not.

We could have just Fox, we could have four spacies, that has no affect on other characters. Other series will get characters based on their own merits.
 

Oblivion129

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Ok, we know Rosalina is unique. We know Ice Climbers and Olimar are unique. Pokemon Trainer was unique. Do we all play (or plan to play) as them?

Chances are, more people play as Falco than any of the other mentioned characters. Sure, diversity is good, but we'll end up using the character we're more comfortable with, which isn't always the unique one.
I think we're going overboard with the uniqueness thing. I'm more in favor of gameplay.

On the other topic of "overepresentation"
People are biased. Of course someone who supports a character from an unrepresented IP doesn't want other franchises to have more representation. Same goes for the opposite scenario.
 

Zzuxon

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I have a question for those who have actually played FE:A.
Would you describe Chrom as more important, less important, or equally as important as Robin, and by how much?
 

Maxilian

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Well i haven't played FE;A :drifloon:, but i prefer Chrom... why? well... cause Robin is the player avatar:drohyou:, is like when you start a game that you can modify your character but Robin is the default looks that you got, but you can modify him a lot and make him look way too different, and if you add Robin as a playable character it will make many people fill that their character, how they created it, is irrelevant :drflip: (even if that's true, you can't show that)...

Here a video of the character creation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptMAe9JWyVY
 

Autumn ♫

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Well i haven't played FE;A :drifloon:, but i prefer Chrom... why? well... cause Robin is the player avatar:drohyou:, is like when you start a game that you can modify your character but Robin is the default looks that you got, but you can modify him a lot and make him look way too different, and if you add Robin as a playable character it will make many people fill that their character, how they created it, is irrelevant :drflip: (even if that's true, you can't show that)...

Here a video of the character creation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptMAe9JWyVY
So, it's like Villager, or what Mii's are probably going to be if they get in...
 

Maxilian

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So, it's like Villager, or what Mii's are probably going to be if they get in...
Well i'm pretty sure that you will be able to use the Mii that you have in your 3DS or WII U, also... you can't really modify the villager per se, you can change the villager sex and clothes and the faces is almost the same (well in Animal Crossing New Leaf that's not the case) :drshrug: but yeah you have a point, even if the Mii doesn't count the Villager does :dr^_^:
 
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Oblivion129

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I have a question for those who have actually played FE:A.
Would you describe Chrom as more important, less important, or equally as important as Robin, and by how much?
Story-line wise they're both as important to the main plot, but Chrom has more screen time and more parts of the story relate to him (until the final chapters). Plus, you have to have Chrom on the battlefield since he's the Lord.
 

thesandman

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I have a question for those who have actually played FE:A.
Would you describe Chrom as more important, less important, or equally as important as Robin, and by how much?
If robin is the character you play as, i'd say robin
 
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