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Character Discussion Thread

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Swift Fox

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I told you, guys.

I TOLD YOU.

I was very skeptical about Ridley as playable character and now look what happen.

Anyway, my updated prediction roster:



More details here: http://smashboards.com/threads/roster-prediction-display-thread.324220/page-5#post-15644284

Changes:
-De-transform everyone
-Table size from 8x6 to 10x5 (still no more free spots for more fighters, it's only done to make more room for transformations :p)
-Greninja replace Ridley
-Mewtwo now only likely (from "definitely")
Just for fun, I've created stress roster using only 9x5 table (44 characters, 0 transformations, 1 random)


Omitted from roster:
-Mewtwo - Had too many similar moves as other confirmed fighters
-Ice Climbers - 3DS limitation & Kirby got ice move (new CUSTOM move set)
-Snake - Sheik got grenade (new move set), interview with Kojima
-Falco - Clone of Fox, practically **** outta luck when Fox got his Smash 64 blaster back through custom move set
-Roy - Well..... yeah.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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And what makes Pacman so likely now? I mean, I don't care anymore, just asking.

Still, why is Lip disconfirmed? I never saw a trace of her.
The press kit pictures.

Lip's Stick is once again an item.

But more importantly we got a Galaga AT.

Galaga is owned by Namco.
 

JamesDNaux

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Well it's good it's not the end of the world for you.
Ridley was technically shown as Other M Ridley, as you can clearly see his tail is the Other M version.
But I don't think that disconfirms him.
Thank god Miis aren't guaranteed.
And what makes Pacman so likely now? I mean, I don't care anymore, just asking.

Still, why is Lip disconfirmed? I never saw a trace of her.
Of course it's not the end of the world, it's a bloody video game. I'm still going to hold off on buying it though, particularly since the 3DS version comes out first.
And Samus is Other M Samus.
There's just nothing we can say right now.
Thank god indeed.
Because there are items from Namco arcade games, particularly a sodding Galaga assist trophy, which is brilliant and spritey.

Lip's Stick is a returning item = probably not in.

Greninja'd by Swamp.
 
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Kenith

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Of course it's not the end of the world, it's a bloody video game. I'm still going to hold off on buying it though, particularly since the 3DS version comes out first.
And Samus is Other M Samus, there's nothing we can say right now.
Thank god indeed.
Because there are items from Namco arcade games, particularly a sodding Galaga assist trophy, which is brilliant and spritey.

Lip's Stick is a returning item = probably not in.
Oh, I thought you were specifically referring to the video, not the press pictures too. I didn't see Lip's Stick in the Direct itself.
Samus is Other M Samus, but ZSS is completely original.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Ice Climbers for NES Remix 2?
 

Rockaphin

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I don't know about you guys but this really makes me happy:
The Kremlings are back! Which gives me more hope that one of my most wanted newcomers, King K. Rool, joins the fray!
 

JamesDNaux

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Well now that we know that Sakurai is a dirty liar who planned cuts from the beginning, who do you think is going to get the shaft?

If we get Mewtwo back, then Jiggs is probably a goner.

I'd hate to imagine, but Lucas or Wolf could possibly go...

Then there's Snake. I can't even think about that right now or I'll just lose it again.


...This is the major reason I was so upset with this direct in the first place.
 
D

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Well now that we know that Sakurai is a dirty liar who planned cuts from the beginning
He didn't lie. You misinterpreted what he said.
He said that no one had to have been cut so far, in the context of this pair of games' rosters.

He did not say that every character from Brawl's roster was planned to return.
 

Sausage Zeldas

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Well now that we know that Sakurai is a dirty liar who planned cuts from the beginning, who do you think is going to get the shaft?

If we get Mewtwo back, then Jiggs is probably a goner.

I'd hate to imagine, but Lucas or Wolf could possibly go...

Then there's Snake. I can't even think about that right now or I'll just lose it again.


...This is the major reason I was so upset with this direct in the first place.
I've thought about Jigglypuff's chances, and she's probably gone. She's been in all the installments, but the only reason she was important was because of her role in the anime, and she's out of that now. Plus, Mewtwo and others seem to be far more popular, and from what I see, no one much really cares about Jigglypuff.
Falco seems more likely for removal than Wolf, what with being a side character rather than a major villain, and also that he has the same moves as Fox.

EDIT: I miscounted the Pokémon reps, but I still think Jiggs will likely get the boot if they need room.
 
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Kenith

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Well now that we know that Sakurai is a dirty liar who planned cuts from the beginning, who do you think is going to get the shaft?

If we get Mewtwo back, then Jiggs is probably a goner.

I'd hate to imagine, but Lucas or Wolf could possibly go...

Then there's Snake. I can't even think about that right now or I'll just lose it again.


...This is the major reason I was so upset with this direct in the first place.
Now, now, the only person even close to confirmed as cut is the Trainer. Ivysaur and Squirtle could very well still be in the game, just not altogether.

The only other characters besides them I could see being cut are Snake and Lucas, for obvious reasons. Even then, I don't think two character cuts automatically means more are being cut as well.
 

bryanoid

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Well now that we know that Sakurai is a dirty liar who planned cuts from the beginning, who do you think is going to get the shaft?

If we get Mewtwo back, then Jiggs is probably a goner.

I'd hate to imagine, but Lucas or Wolf could possibly go...

Then there's Snake. I can't even think about that right now or I'll just lose it again.


...This is the major reason I was so upset with this direct in the first place.
Jiggs gone? I doubt it. Brawl had 6 Pokemon reps, why can't this game? In fact, I'd bet on 6 poke reps. IT's looking like Pikachu, Charizard, Greninja, Lucario, Mewtwo, Jiggs. The only possible threat to either Mewtwo or Jiggs is Sceptile/Serperior. Unlikely though.
I honestly don't see there being any other cuts. Squirtle and Ivysaur were simply replaced because their inclusions would've made no sense with there no longer being transformations.
 
D

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Just for fun, I've created stress roster using only 9x5 table (44 characters, 0 transformations, 1 random)


Omitted from roster:
-Mewtwo - Had too many similar moves as other confirmed fighters
-Ice Climbers - 3DS limitation & Kirby got ice move (new CUSTOM move set)
-Snake - Sheik got grenade (new move set), interview with Kojima
-Falco - Clone of Fox, practically **** outta luck when Fox got his Smash 64 blaster back through custom move set
-Roy - Well..... yeah.
Now that it has occurred to me...both Falco & Wolf leaving & giving some of their moves to Fox seems sadly makes me think it'll happen to trim down the fat on the roster.
 
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Kenith

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I've thought about Jigglypuff's chances, and she's probably gone. She's been in all the installments, but the only reason she was important was because of her role in the anime, and she's out of that now. Plus, Mewtwo and others seem to be far more popular, and from what I see, no one much really cares about Jigglypuff.
Falco seems more likely for removal than Wolf, what with being a side character rather than a major villain, and also that he has the same moves as Fox.

EDIT: I miscounted the Pokémon reps, but I still think Jiggs will likely get the boot if they need room.
Jigglypuff has relevance still.
She was reintroduced as a Fairy-Type.

It's very likely, given that many veterans have gotten revamps, that she will be given Fairy-Type moves and attributes, and a new Final Smash.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I posted this in the Ridley thread, but since I've been very active in this thread too, I figure I might as well post it here too:

Well guys, that's it I suppose. Once again Sakurai passes out on the chance of including the biggest remaining Nintendo all-star, Ridley is once again not a playable character. So with all that in mind, here's a closure and farewell post from me:

I'm not even sure where to begin with this, yesterday's Direct was simply a big ****ing mess. The game looks fun, yes, but everything in the way of characters, except Yoshi and Sheik who look awesome, had me scratching my head or quite simply think of Sakurai as an idiot. This is going to stray a bit off-topic from Ridley for a little while, but I do want this to be about my general thoughts on the Direct too, since you won't be seeing me post very much anymore.

I'm probably one of the only people who let out a "Yes!" when Sakurai trolled by saying ZSS was cut, it's always just been Sakurai's poor excuse of saying that there are multiple Metroid reps, and I'm not buying it. Samus is still Samus for ****s sake, there is more to Metroid than her. But hey, whatever excuse he has to buff up her boobs even more I guess. She also has those weird boots now, which is simply nothing short of silly. I guess he also thinks that including 3 Metroid ATs makes for some fair representation, and while Dark Samus and Mother Brain are crazy cool ATs it just doesn't even things out. ATs aren't supposed to be used as an excuse to not include characters, especially not when many of us just turn them off.

Now Charizard himself looks ****ing amazing. I never really wanted to play Pokémon Trainer due to his odd mechanic, but his 3 Pokémon are the coolest ones in Smash, so it was a bit of a shame. Now Charizard is alone at least, buuuuuuuut with that said I don't believe Squirtle or Ivysaur can stand on their own legs on this roster as much as I'd like it, and with Greninja being added and Pokémon being up to 4 reps, there's already tense competition between Mewtwo and Jigglypuff. So yeah, Pokémon representation is all over the ****ing place now. Speaking of Greninja, holy **** Sakurai. Now I haven't been very vocal about my dislike for WFT and Rosalina, at most I've liked comments that are vocal about their dislike for them, but I don't like them. But Greninja, that's on a whole other level. Including Greninja would be like including Infernape back in Brawl, they're in exactly the same spot. The absolutely only reason Greninja is here is for Game Freak to throw in their promotional fodder for the anime, since Ash is obviously going to get a Greninja at some point. Greninja is not worthy of being in Smash Bros, and that's not something I've said about many characters before. Once Gen VI is over he'll sink down into the ground, just like every starter that doesn't originate from the Kanto region, and by that point he'll have been just as bad an inclusion as Jigglypuff was to begin with. Point is that Pokémon characters like that don't age well, they aren't timeless like Lucario, Charizard or Mewtwo. With this, I dislike half of the current newcomer inclusions, while I don't plan to play Villager or Little Mac despite them being deserving. It's really shaping up to be a piss-poor newcomer roster, especially compared to Brawl's godlike cast. Mind you I like Greninja okay as a Pokémon, he was my X & Y starter, but he's just not Smash material AT ALL. So when we take all this into consideration, and two timeless Pokémon like Ivysaur and Squirtle are most likely cut, it should be obvious that someone ****ed up here.

Oh yeah, and the 3DS version coming out before the Wii U version is just so stupid. I mean, rarely anybody will buy a Wii U for Smash now that they can not only get the same game on the 3DS which has an infinitely better library, but they can get it half a year earlier. The Wii U now has to rely on MK8 more than ever. I'll also be honest and say I kind of wish I'd have held off on buying one now until next christmas. But oh well, at least we're getting a summer release of some sort (until it's delayed of course.)

Now of course these are all miniscule things compared to the biggest let-down of the stream: Ridley is a stage hazard in Pyrosphere. I'm not going to desperately try and think Sakurai is simply trolling us, because he isn't, at least not anymore. Ridley was shown exclusively in the stage-boss section, in fact the whole section seems to have been dedicated just so Sakurai could slap us in the face. I'm 100% sure Sakurai thinks that Ridley being a stage hazard is going to get us all really excited. The whole way he has handled this whole Ridley thing has just left me with so little respect left for the man. I still respect Sakurai's work, but I do not respect him very much as an individual anymore outside of his willpower, harsh as that might be. He should know more than anyone how wanted Ridley is, and therefore shouldn't tease him for over half a year, only to have him revealed a stage hazard in such a half-***** manner. The guy even has the guts to still not even show him despite deconfirming him, almost as if he thinks he's making some sort of epic build-up to Ridley's great and surely appreciated role. No way man, you don't tease something like this for this long just to pull such a stupid stunt. I'd have respected him a bit more if he just outright burst the bubble early on, I even said that the first day Pyrosphere was announced. I usually find Sakurai's trolling funny, like despite wanting her gone I could still see the fun in his fake-out regarding ZSS, or how he almost made all Palutena fans' hearts stop simulatenously. But those are fun because the outcome of the jokes are good, and are revealed immediately after. You don't delay something like this 7 months just to give your fanbase a turd to the face, that's the surest way of killing hype, and I gotta say Mr. Sakurai, you sure did that well, this turd was all wet and ****.

I still can't understand what'd keep Ridley away either, so many fans have proven time and time again that Ridley can fit, and with Sakurai constantly saying that size problems are null it just doesn't make sense. Either Sakurai has a personal vendetta against Ridley's inclusion as a playable character, or he lacks the imagination to make him playable, and the latter wouldn't surprise me given his bad track-record concerning proper Metroid representation (lava stages anyone?) and blatantly having ripped off a DoA stage. I'm not going to think too much about it though, I don't want to delve into the mind of the guy who brought Greninja into Smash, that's just a lost cause.

I also want to note that there were an awful lot of deconfirmations in general in this Direct, it was actually kind of awful to see all these characters that many people wanted just get thrown away to the side.

But hey, at least the Kremlings are back, aye?

So yeah, I guess I'm coming to the closure of the post. Overall this Direct was a BIG hype killer for me. I've said this since Day 1 I returned to Smash speculation, and I'm going to keep it. With Ridley's deconfirmation, I no longer have any reason to participate in Smash 4 speculation. The only newcomer left that I care about making it in is K. Rool, but with the Gematsu leak having immensily strong back-up I've lost faith in him too. Even without the leak, K. Rool himself, as much as I like him, wouldn't be able to keep me participating. He's only been my 3rd most wanted character afterall, so it's tough for him to stand all on his own, and no way I'm dedicating much time to speculation just for my favorite veterans' sake. The only reason I've come here to begin with, the only reason I posted on here every day, and checked the Smash website every day, is because of Ridley, and without him I don't have any reason to be here until the game's release. I do want to note that the game still looks fun, I like many of the changes we saw in the Direct, it's just the roster, the only source of proper speculation, that's shaping up to be ****.

So with all that said, it's been my pleasure everybody. It's been fun though, and part of me wishes it hadn't already ended here in April, but on the other hand I'd rather get the news earliest possible too, instead of having the release of the game be overly bittersweet as was the case with Brawl. I'll stick to my opinion that the Ridley community has been the best place to be in both the Brawl and Smash 4 speculation periods, and I have no regrets having dedicated so many hours and days to the cause, even if it's all been for nothing in the end. So until release, see you all, and have fun.
 
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JamesDNaux

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No need to rag on me because I have an opinion. That made no sense anyway, who is he going to cut from this roster that isn't a veteran from the previous games?

The point is that I was worried about cuts. I'm thinking people here are being a bit too optimistic with the Pokemon here, there's no way Squirtle and Ivy will be back now that they're separated, and with four Pokemon so far, either we get six, which is unlikely, or we get either Mewtwo or Jiggs. I'll eat my hat if not.

Don't take this seriously, since about every time I say something will or won't happen, the opposite tends to happen. If I say that these guys are cut, they won't be..

That probably jinxed it.

I think it's time to quit speculation for me...
 

JamesDNaux

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.... And how many did Brawl have exactly? Believe me when I say that this game won't have less than that.
Don't take this seriously.
Step one, apply palm to face.


While it's possible, I'm just being realistic at this point, since optimism just ends in pain. I doubt we get more than five now that transforming characters are out. I could fool myself into thinking we get ten sodding Pokemon but then I'll just get disappointed once we're left with five. I certainly don't want six at this point anyway.
 

Kenith

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I posted this in the Ridley thread, but since I've been very active in this thread too, I figure I might as well post it here too:
Did anyone actually read all of this?
It's sort of depressing.

But I should point out that Ridley wasn't directly shown or referenced by name.
And the Other M version, which is most definitely the one being used here, is not the only Ridley.
Also, he literally said "Nah, I'm only kidding" when revealing ZSS, so it's clear that "scared you didn't it" type humour is not above him. I have never supported Ridley for myself, and I refuse to believe what I see until I have the proof.

Which will either be at E3, or the Summer.
 

JamesDNaux

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I posted this in the Ridley thread, but since I've been very active in this thread too, I figure I might as well post it here too:
This is exactly how I felt about the direct, minus Ridley having that big of an impact and K. Rool being my most wanted. But this is just the perfect explanation of why I was severely disappointed and lost my hype. Speaking more for myself, I don't care for any of the newcomers, and a few of them are just complete jokes to me, though I've said that before... The main thing is that there's just nothing new that I like, and all the old things I liked are getting changed or removed completely.

I feel your pain and I can only hope that the more optimistic people here are right about Ridley being another fake-out. It was a good run though, one I won't forget.
 
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Sausage Zeldas

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Jigglypuff has relevance still.
She was reintroduced as a Fairy-Type.

It's very likely, given that many veterans have gotten revamps, that she will be given Fairy-Type moves and attributes, and a new Final Smash.
If anything showcases Fairy-type, I think it'd likely be either Sylveon (being arguably the most iconic Fairy, and the ribbons could make up for the lack of arms à la Ivysaur) or Gardevoir (because Gardevoir, and I don't remember seeing it as a Poké ball).
 
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Zhadgon

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I posted this in the Ridley thread, but since I've been very active in this thread too, I figure I might as well post it here too:
Good luck, I know how you feel about Ridley and to a lesser extent about the roster in general, I hope that you can come back for the next Smash or maybe it will be DLC where Sakurai can hear our requests but until then have a nice year and the force be with you :p
.n_n.
 

Kenith

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If anything showcases Fairy-type, I think it'd likely be either Sylveon (being arguably the most iconic Fairy, and the ribbons could make up for the lack of arms à la Ivysaur) or Gardevoir (because Gardevoir, and I don't remember seeing it as a Poké ball).
I don't think Sylveon would be introduced. Eevee is already a Poke Ball summon, and there has never been multiple members of a evolutionary line in different roles (i.e. Blastoise Summon removed in Brawl in favour of Squirtle)

Also, Sylveon is not arguably the most iconic Fairy type, that would obviously be Jigglypuff/Wigglytuff.
Also, I think introducing two Kalos newcomers would be a little overkill. Hell, having one was overkill.
 

Sausage Zeldas

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I don't think Sylveon would be introduced. Eevee is already a Poke Ball summon, and there has never been multiple members of a evolutionary line in different roles (i.e. Blastoise Summon removed in Brawl in favour of Squirtle)

Also, Sylveon is not arguably the most iconic Fairy type, that would obviously be Jigglypuff/Wigglytuff.
Also, I think introducing two Kalos newcomers would be a little overkill. Hell, having one was overkill.
One and three are good points, disagree on 2 (I did say arguably, though). Gardevoir remains interesting, to me at least.
 

bryanoid

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Yes, I'm sorry Wariofan1, but that is exactly what Sakurai is trying to do by adding all these AT's, items, stages + hazards, to make up for lack of playable representation. Mind you, i'm not saying Ridley isn't playable. Unlikely sure, but nothing's confirmed yet. Sakurai mentioned before that there'll be less of a focus on needlessly ADDING characters in this game and more on balancing the roster. This would be the infamous quote that people misread as him wanting to cut characters/limit the roster. It means (and this goes to all you pessimistic posters too) that although Brawl (with 39 playable characters) had 6 Pokemon reps, it worked well for that game. So expecting no cuts (we still haven't gotten a CONFIRMED cut), Pokemon will stay at 6 and Mario and Zelda would need to have more characters to keep the BALANCE. Seeing as those three franchises are "the big 3". We've already seen Mario get a newcomer. All signs are pointing to the presence of SECRET characters for this game and I'm sure we haven't seen all the playable characters from the Mario franchise (that would be silly if we have). I'm guessing that Ganondorf will remain Zelda's secret char, with there being a reveal for a newcomer soon.

I am predicting though, that although we'll get no roster spot cuts, Squirtle and Ivysaur are replaced. Simply replaced, nothing more. Nobody else in danger of being cut yet. I'm still confused why people are upset with Greninja's inclusion. He didn't take away a roster spot from anyone but Squirtle. He's more deserving and from the most recent generation.
 

Kenith

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One and three are good points, disagree on 2 (I did say arguably, though). Gardevoir remains interesting, to me at least.
Well, it is hard to get proof on the second point, so no one is really right in that regard.

Also, an obligatory Google search for "Fairy-Type" yields results equally for Jigglypuff and the others, so it's hard to say.
 
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Malcolm Belmont

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Jigglypuff has relevance still.
She was reintroduced as a Fairy-Type.

It's very likely, given that many veterans have gotten revamps, that she will be given Fairy-Type moves and attributes, and a new Final Smash.
I don't think Mewtwo will come back in the retail game..however DLC is another story. I am predicting Mewtwo will be released as DLC
 
D

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Changed my roster...kinda losing hope on many characters like Falco, Wolf, & Snake...



I also kinda feel the custom movesets hurt some characters chances like Lucas. Heres hoping Sakurai proves me wrong!

Might replace Isaac with Ike but eh. *shrug*
 

Sausage Zeldas

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Well, it is hard to get proof on the second point, so no one is really right in that regard.

Also, an obligatory Google search for "Fairy-Type" yields results equally for Jigglypuff and the others, so it's hard to say.
I'm pretty sure Sylveon was the first to be announced as Fairy, and also the first one to be represented in the anime, which they still seem to look at for character ideas.
I don't really think Sylveon will be fighting in SSB4, though, mostly due to having an awkward shape for this game's style. I just like to look at both sides of things.
 

Kenith

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I'm pretty sure Sylveon was the first to be announced as Fairy, and also the first one to be represented in the anime, which they still seem to look at for character ideas.
I don't really think Sylveon will be fighting in SSB4, though, mostly due to having an awkward shape for this game's style. I just like to look at both sides of things.
So you're saying Sylveon is the most popular as a Fairy-Type, but not necessarily the most popular Pokemon with that type?
 
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Sausage Zeldas

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So you're saying Sylveon is the most popular as a Fairy-Type, but not necessarily the most popular Pokemon with that type?
Yeah, that's a really good way to put it.
So I guess my overall point is that if the only reason Jigglypuff is relevant anymore is because it's Fairy-type, there are other things that I could see Sakurai throwing at us.
Also it's getting late for me, so I won't be able to say anything else for a while.
 

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Today was interesting to say the least.

King K. Rool
• Kremlings have a presence in Smash Run.
• Gonna say that I expect him much more now.​
Zelda Franchise
• Sheik being separated is a good thing, it means we can finally see our preexisting cast of 5 characters.
• No new character seems likely, the franchise is still getting a crazy amount of love through items.​
Metroid Franchise
• As much as it pains me to say it, gonna have to take good ol' Ridley outta my roster. Twas a good ride, but maybe next time again. I see reasons to continue speculating him though, but for now I'm gonna keep him out until further details arise.​
Palutena
• That fakeout makes that leak seem even more real.
• Pit's final smash changing just oozes more likeliness for the Goddess of Light.​
Pokémon
• Greninja was hard to wrap my head around. Seeing as Pokémon had 6 characters last time around, I see no harm in it having the same amount for this game. Funny how the standard five has become the standard six.​
Robin
• As in previous versions of my roster, replaceable with any other Fire Emblem character within reason.
• If transformation characters are now out of the question, it makes me more interested in seeing a stance character.​
Shulk
• We may not have been able to know his name today, but Shulk remains on the roster. Not much else to say.​
Muddy Mole
• While originally Lip, who was deconfirmed literally twenty minutes after I completed my roster, Muddy is gonna be in place of any other Retro character that appears in the game. So he's basically a filler for now.
• I still find his burrowing mechanic to incredibly promising. I will remain hopeful to the very end.​
No Snake
• Sheik's new grenade move sold it for me. But I could still be very wrong and I would not mind being very wrong. I was aiming for 48 characters, but number 49 would certainly be Snake. [50 would be Ridley if you were curious]

In the end all I really have to say is this.
I'm only mad about what happened to Ridley because it feeds Shokio's ego.

Oh and Ninja Frogs are pretty cool. Klefki would have been better though and you all know it.
 
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