Character Discussion Thread

[Zzuxon]

I main Lucas and Mewtwo in P:M, so I'm pretty OK with this list.

 

[Joe D.]

Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Pikachu, etc. confirmed for scrapped.

I was making that post just for the shaq faces...

I'm fully aware that it plays a significant role, I was only joking around.

I'm still obsessed with this icon though.

 

[Starcutter]

Of course they would put one of my mains, Toon Link, at the very bottom.


Back to the discussion, we were talking about third parties, correct?

What about Professor Layton?

 

[Substitution]

Of course they would put one of my mains, Toon Link, at the very bottom.


Back to the discussion, we were talking about third parties, correct?

What about Professor Layton?

I'd support him if only because of the top hat.
Because top hats.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

What about Professor Layton?

I have never played a Layton game, but from how often I see him get critically acclaimed Nintendo-exclusive games, as well as from what I've watch from bits of the games' story and his support thread, I can honestly say I'd prefer Layton over any other realistically possible third-party at this point.

I mean, I'd want Bomberman or Quote more, but I have my doubts over them for obvious enough reasons.

 

[Substitution]

I have never played a Layton game, but from how often I see him get critically acclaimed Nintendo-exclusive games, as well as from what I've watch from bits of the games' story and his support thread, I can honestly say I'd prefer Layton over any other realistically possible third-party at this point.

I mean, I'd want Bomberman or Quote more, but I have my doubts over them for obvious enough reasons.

I honestly would love Bomberman.

 

[Starcutter]

I'd support him if only because of the top hat.
Because top hats.

Tbh never played a Layton game, this is one of two things that sold the character to me.

I have never played a Layton game, but from how often I see him get critically acclaimed Nintendo-exclusive games, as well as from what I've watch from bits of the games' story and his support thread, I can honestly say I'd prefer Layton over any other realistically possible third-party at this point.

I mean, I'd want Bomberman or Quote more, but I have my doubts over them for obvious enough reasons.

Pretty much me in a nutshell, especially the part about quote.

 

[Substitution]

Tbh never played a Layton game, this is one of two things that sold the character to me.

Top hats are awesome.
We need more characters with top hats!

 

[Starcutter]

Top hats are awesome.
We need more characters with top hats!

At least one would be fine.

We also need classy red ties and gelled hair as well, maybe one that crossed over with a top hat? *wink*

 

[False Sense]

Back to the discussion, we were talking about third parties, correct?

What about Professor Layton?

Well, as a Professor Layton fan myself (if my avatar didn't make that obvious), I would love to see him in Smash. He'd be awesome.

Do I think he's likely, or even has a chance? Certainly not.

Professor Layton has seen a good deal of success as a series over the years, selling millions of copies and gaining quite a bit of popularity. However, the series is still small and is in no way an extremely well known video game series, at least not when compared to big names like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Sonic, Mega Man, or Pac-Man. Given Sakurai's apparent criteria for third party characters to be a really big deal, I just don't think Layton lives up to that. He has popularity, and his games do pretty well, but that doesn't automatically make him a video game legend. That's what third-party additions to Smash should be, really.

But his top hat is pretty awesome, I'll give him that.

 

[Substitution]

At least one would be fine.

At least something like this would work:

We also need classy red ties and gelled hair as well, maybe one that crossed over with a top hat? *wink*

But Donkey Kong is already in.

 

[Starcutter]

Layton is more like a second-and-a-half party property, really.


Kinda like Tetris.

 

[Joe D.]

Can someone explain to me Bomberman AND Layton's 3rd party scenarios? I mean, i'm not sure who owns them, or what their chances are...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Can someone explain to me Bomberman AND Layton's 3rd party scenarios? I mean, i'm not sure who owns them, or what their chances are...

Bomberman belongs to Konami, Layton belongs to Level-5.

 

[Starcutter]

Can someone explain to me Bomberman AND Layton's 3rd party scenarios? I mean, i'm not sure who owns them, or what their chances are...

Bomberman is now owned by the guys who made snake and would have to compete with Simon Belmont if Konami got another character.


Layton is made by um... Level 5 or something? Anyways, NoA does the translations for US release, and it's pretty popular, I've noticed above average promotion by Nintendo for the franchise.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Well they sure murdered Olimar, from top to bottom. Glad I don't really play Project M. Figures that Fox would be number one in the wannabe Melee game too.

Kind of makes me worried about how my mains will play in SSB4, though I don't really care about tiers. I hope Link get improved, at least.

 

[Deleted member]

So you're using a subjective opinion as concrete evidence, CliffJumper?

Welp, Cliffjumper confirmed for Saturn's long lost brother....

 

[Gune]

Welp, Cliffjumper confirmed for Saturn's long lost brother....

Jesus Christ please no.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

As long as we never meet the long lost brother of he who shall not be named TheDivineDeity I'll be fine.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Cliffjumper is a weak pathetic clone of Noah. (no offense intended to him) I thought Smash would have no mo' clones.

----

 

[SuperBrawler]

I don't like the DivineDeity hate. Poor dude.

Of course they would put one of my mains, Toon Link, at the very bottom.


Back to the discussion, we were talking about third parties, correct?

What about Professor Layton?

Professor Layton is my most wanted 3rd Party.

I remember reading Nintendo Power on New Years, and it said his resolution is to grow a beard and be Abraham Lincoln.

 

[Deleted member]

Found this tier list concerning Project M on the internet. It's actually pretty interesting!
View attachment 10924

Its always gotta be the Star Fox characters going up on high tier!

 

[Zynux]

The recent Pac-Man debate made me realize how much I hope Smash Bros is completely done with adding third party characters after Smash 4.

Clearly its too much of hassle

(besides, Nintendo should be focusing on their own, first party franchises that need love...)

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't like the DivineDeity hate. Poor dude.

As hilarious as he was, he was very reactive and very opinionated... he took flame baits too easily. Sometimes I miss him.

 

[AEMehr]

Think about it this way!
Has PacMan ever been in a mainstream Mario crossover? NO!!!!!!!!!!

I would think Mario Kart, as a franchise, is a mainstream Mario title. So he's been in three of them.

Has Sonic ever been in a mainstream Mario crossover? Yes, he's been in A LOT!!!!

I wouldn't call "MARIO & SONIC" a mainstream "Mario" franchise. It's clearly it's own separate spin-off franchise, developed by SEGA exclusively.
Now Namco may develop the Mario Kart games Pac-Man is in, but those are still identified as "MARIO KART". Not "MARIO & PAC-MAN KART RACING".

Are the ties between Nintendo and SEGA strong? VERY STRONG!!!!!!
Are the ties between Namco and Nintendo strong? Not as much!

[citation needed]

Of course, that is clearly why Sonic was in Smash. I mean it wasn't because of his iconic rivalry with Mario when SEGA was actually competing against Nintendo or anything like that. Or the fact that he was the most wanted character for Brawl or anything like that.
A character's history with Nintendo is generally more important than their current history with Nintendo.
I mean now knowing Namco is the original Third-Party company to have worked with Nintendo's consoles, I'm genuinely more interested in Pac-Man's inclusion now.
---
I think Pac-Man being in Smash Brothers would be a really good thing to happen, but I personally do not find it INCREDIBLY likely, but likely none the less.

I mean look at it this way, we already have three gaming icons from separate companies so far in Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man. Assuming Snake is to return, we now have four gaming icons.
As much as I would love Layton, Pac-Man would simply make Smash the game to have if you love video games in general.

You've got FIVE different gaming icons that belong to separate companies IN THE SAME GAME. These five characters will probably never appear in the same game together every again, it would certainly be a crossover any gamer would remember for years to come. On top of that, we also have the rest of Nintendo's cast of gaming icons too as the icing on the cake.
Saying Pac-Man would be "poorly received" as a playable character in Smash Brothers is foolish. You may not be a fan of him, but I can guarantee millions of others have been hoping for him.
---

What about Professor Layton?

Layton is my most wanted character for this game.
Behind Pac-Man, he's the only other new Third-Party character I can see happening. Of course with that said, I don't really see him happening...
I will always remain hopeful though!

I have never played a Layton game.

You should consider playing one budd! I already plan on playing Golden Sun on the Wii U eShop because you asked me too a little while ago, and I hope to play Advance Wars too.
I suggest you try out Unwound Future! It's arguably the best of the bunch and it may be too hard to find copies of Curious Village and Diabolical Box.

 

[Berserker.]

I know I'm not a mod or anything but we shouldn't talk about users here regardless if it's positive or negative. Just focus on the topic.

I thought Smash would have no mo' clones

There are still clones existing in the game (Luigi and Toon Link) although their attributes really alter their playstyle which is why it doesn't really matter that much. Call it lazy if you want but their playstyle is different

Yeah I know and only some people know this but I used to be irked out on how Falco was a clone of Fox in Melee (And P:M) but my view on that has changed after trying out Falco more and more. I still prefer spammer Falco since I have an affinity for laming out and playing safe but he still feels different from Fox.

Clones only become a problem when one of them are completely or significantly inferior to the other

 

[AEMehr]

I know I'm not a mod or anything but we shouldn't talk about users here regardless if it's positive or negative. Just focus on the topic.

There are still clones existing in the game (Luigi and Toon Link) although their attributes really alter their playstyle which is why it doesn't really matter that much. Call it lazy if you want but their playstyle is different

Yeah I know and only some people know this but I used to be irked out on how Falco was a clone of Fox in Melee (And P:M) but my view on that has changed after trying out Falco more and more. I still prefer spammer Falco since I have an affinity for laming out and playing safe but he still feels different from Fox.

Clones only become a problem when one of them are completely or significantly inferior to the other

Pretty sure he was joking about his statement regarding the possibility of someone essentially being a clone of another person.

 

[Berserker.]

Pretty sure he was joking about his statement regarding the possibility of someone essentially being a clone of another person.

Well ****.

Ah well, just take my post as my stand on clones. I mean, some morons call bull on Toon Link

 

[ChikoLad]

*long drawn out siiiiiiigh*

So we're saying that personality is a focus when getting considered for smash?


Sorry, I had too.

Yes, actually. I posted it here before, so I'm not doing it again, but Sakurai stated in his Iwata Asks on Brawl that Smash Bros features Nintendo characters because their personalities and the locations they are from bring a special atmosphere that otherwise cannot be achieved. And that when he's considering characters, he thinks about whether or not they would really add to the atmosphere.

Pac-Man does not have a personality of any kind to add to the game. G&W and R.O.B were historic icons for Nintendo that were given personality, but I highly doubt they will do this for Pac-Man because as Sakurai stated, Namco is not getting a special treatment because they are making the game.

And AS I HAVE ALREADY SAID, the #1 rule of Smash Bros is that characters must be Nintendo icons. None of us can deny this. Which is why I keep saying all third parties in the game are getting "special treatment".

This basically addresses the amount of posts from last night.

And to that one person who went on about hating Pac-Man, I don't hate him, I'm completely indifferent (how can I hate that which is barely a character?), I'm just being the devil's advocate and being real here.

 

[AEMehr]

Yes, actually. I posted it here before, so I'm not doing it again, but Sakurai stated in his Iwata Asks on Brawl that Smash Bros features Nintendo characters because their personalities and the locations they are from bring a special atmosphere that otherwise cannot be achieved. And that when he's considering characters, he thinks about whether or not they would really add to the atmosphere.

Pac-Man does not have a personality of any kind to add to the game. G&W and R.O.B were historic icons for Nintendo that were given personality, but I highly doubt they will do this for Pac-Man because as Sakurai stated, Namco is not getting a special treatment because they are making the game.

Pac-Man has a personality. The character has two television shows to derive one out of, if not using the ones he has in the games. In which, he essentially expresses his personality through his actions much like in his animations for Everybody's Golf / Hot Shots Gold.

It's essentially the same way everyone else in Smash Brothers expresses a "personality", through their actions.

And AS I HAVE ALREADY SAID, the #1 rule of Smash Bros is that characters must be Nintendo icons. None of us can deny this. Which is why I keep saying all third parties in the game are getting "special treatment".

You see you're perception of "special treatment" is different from everyone else's. There's no way I can convince you think otherwise if you're going to take a statement in a completely different way.
As far as I am concerned, Namco isn't automatically getting "any special consideration for having characters in the game", as Sakurai stated himself.
They're not getting any priority, but that doesn't mean they aren't allowed to get anything.

And to that one person who went on about hating Pac-Man, I don't hate him, I'm completely indifferent (how can I hate that which is barely a character?), I'm just being the devil's advocate and being real here.

Pac-Man's got more personality than you think. You're limiting yourself to his earlier appearances, where he had little to no character. There's more to derive for him than just those titles these days.

 

[ChikoLad]

Pac-Man has a personality. The character has two television shows to derive one out of, if not using the ones he has in the games. In which, he essentially expresses his personality through his actions much like in his animations for Everybody's Golf / Hot Shots Gold.

It's essentially the same way everyone else in Smash Brothers expresses a "personality", through their actions.
You see you're perception of "special treatment" is different from everyone else's. There's no way I can convince you think otherwise if you're going to take a statement in a completely different way.
As far as I am concerned, Namco isn't automatically getting "any special consideration for having characters in the game", as Sakurai stated himself.
They're not getting any priority, but that doesn't mean they aren't allowed to get anything.

Pac-Man's got more personality than you think. You're limiting yourself to his earlier appearances, where he had little to no character. There's more to derive for him than just those titles these days.

These argument is completely invalid because these other aspects of the franchise are not well known, with the exception of Ghostly Adventures. But nobody actually likes that.

The entire argument people are using for Pac-Man is the fact he is ICONIC, but only the Classic Pac-Man game is iconic.

 

[AEMehr]

These argument is completely invalid because these other aspects of the franchise are not well known, with the exception of Ghostly Adventures. But nobody actually likes that.

It is unknown that a character can have a personality through the use of their actions? What?
I guess several of Sonic's moves should be cut too, since they were derived from Sonic the Fighters. That's a relatively unknown title, better cut the content from it.

I always thought Smash Brothers was always about deriving aspects from a character's appearances throughout the years into how they act and play in Smash. It's what I've done for movesets, it's what Sakurai's done for movesets, it's really what anyone does for a Smash moveset.

So many characters already embody that concept, what prevents Pac-Man from doing so? Is because he's third-party? Why can Mega Man and Sonic be allowed that right? Your argument is completely invalid because it doesn't believe in something Smash Brothers is all about.

The entire argument people are using for Pac-Man is the fact he is ICONIC, but only the Classic Pac-Man game is iconic.

Pac-Man as a character is iconic. It doesn't matter if he's classic or modern, Pac-Man will always remain an iconic character. His classic appearance is just what always comes to mind first.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Pac-Man does not have a personality of any kind to add to the game. G&W and R.O.B were historic icons for Nintendo that were given personality, but I highly doubt they will do this for Pac-Man because as Sakurai stated, Namco is not getting a special treatment because they are making the game.

Subjective at best.
You don't see him having any personality.

I see him as a big eater character who lives a terrifying existence constantly being chased down by the supernatural as he tries to satisfying that huge appetite of his. In other words he's Shaggy from Scooby Doo.

If all else he can certainly give Villager a run for his money in Street Fighter X Tekken:

You cannot run from Pac-Man.

And AS I HAVE ALREADY SAID, the #1 rule of Smash Bros is that characters must be Nintendo icons. None of us can deny this. Which is why I keep saying all third parties in the game are getting "special treatment".

Well that's all good and dandy, but not receiving "special treatment" in your opinion doesn't sound like it matches up with what we believe Sakurai to mean. Namco not getting special treatment would just mean Pac-Man doesn't get automatically in and must adhere to the same rules as Sonic and Megaman(but not Snake; that was clearly "Special treatment").

Judging by previous third parties I'd guess for Pac-Man to get in he'd have to be:

• Extremely well known to the point of it being harder to find someone who DOESN'T know who they are
  
• A company mascot character
• Have a large fanbase
• Some sort of tie to Nintendo

He ticks all of the boxes, and that first one especially. Pac-Man is probably equal to Mario in terms of being a household name, and yes I'd put him above Megaman in that regard.

Also the Pac-Man in that video I posted above I'm fairly sure would be recognized easily as Pac-Man.

 

[ChikoLad]

*sigh*

Guys, I'm playing by YOUR logic, not my own.

It is YOU guys who are saying Pac-Man should be in based on being iconic, but it's only the original game that is. I'm telling you guys how THAT train of thought is flawed. And how saying he should be in because the Big Three are in is flawed. There are better reasons to pick for his inclusion, but you guys are ignoring them in place of flimsy ones.

And regarding the whole Sonic thing, all of Sonic's moves are stuff he's done in the main series. Which is way more iconic.

Well that's all good and dandy, but not receiving "special treatment" in your opinion doesn't sound like it matches up with what we believe Sakurai to mean. Namco not getting special treatment would just mean Pac-Man doesn't get automatically in and must adhere to the same rules as Sonic and Megaman(but not Snake; that was clearly "Special treatment").

Or maybe that's just your clearly biased and hopeful train of thought because you want the character? I don't NOT want the character per se, though I don't see any real reason for him to be included, unlike Mega Man and Sonic (and in the case of Smash 4, Snake).

Your version of the special treatment interpretation has no logical basis. Mine does. Because the #1 rule of Smash is that the characters must be Nintendo characters. Anyone else is special treatment. Why are you guys trying to deny this? It's common knowledge.

 

[AEMehr]

It is YOU guys who are saying Pac-Man should be in based on being iconic, but it's only the original game that is. I'm telling you guys how THAT train of thought is flawed. And how saying he should be in because the Big Three are in is flawed. There are better reasons to pick for his inclusion, but you guys are ignoring them in place of flimsy ones.

I was arguing against your pointless "No Personality" argument.

You shot back saying it meant nothing because they're derived from lesser known games and I said that's total bull.

And regarding the whole Sonic thing, all of Sonic's moves are stuff he's done in the main series. Which is way more iconic.

Yeah no, the majority of his standard attacks come from Sonic the Fighters, a lesser known Sonic game.
By YOUR logic, roughly half of his moveset should be removed because it's from a lesser known game.

Why shouldn't Pac-Man be able to derive actions from his other games if other characters can?

 

[Deleted member]

*sigh*

Guys, I'm playing by YOUR logic, not my own.

It is YOU guys who are saying Pac-Man should be in based on being iconic, but it's only the original game that is. I'm telling you guys how THAT train of thought is flawed. And how saying he should be in because the Big Three are in is flawed. There are better reasons to pick for his inclusion, but you guys are ignoring them in place of flimsy ones.

The original game was actually outdone by Ms. Pac-Man in popularity. Are you going to say that isn't iconic? Or the Championship DX remake that came out a few years ago and got 90+ on Metacritic. Or the World trilogy that came out in the GCN generation. I'm not a fan of Ghostly Adventures, but I've seen as much hate for the upcoming Sonic/cartoon tie-in. That doesn't make Sonic no longer an icon, or anything close.

Later games didn't do as well as the original Pac-Man... but that was the original Pac-Man. What you're basically saying is the same thing Sonic haters said before Brawl came out, that Pac-Man's newer games not being successful means he isn't iconic anymore. Just like the anti-Sonic crowd who said that Sonic 06 meant Sonic shouldn't be in Brawl.

*And regarding the whole Sonic thing, all of Sonic's moves are stuff he's done in the main series. Which is way more iconic.

MegaMan's up tilt from Marvel vs. Capcom, not even on Nintendo platforms, would like to have a word.

Or maybe that's just your clearly biased and hopeful train of thought because you want the character? I don't NOT want the character per se, though I don't see any real reason for him to be included, unlike Mega Man and Sonic (and in the case of Smash 4, Snake).

Pac-Man is arguably more iconic than MegaMan. This is a game about all-stars and it has already expanded to include other company mascots or characters. You've not stated why Pac-Man doesn't apply when he's in the same boat as every other rep.

Your version of the special treatment interpretation has no logical basis. Mine does. Because the #1 rule of Smash is that the characters must be Nintendo characters. Anyone else is special treatment. Why are you guys trying to deny this? It's common knowledge.

MegaMan is not a Nintendo character, neither was Snake. They were examples of special treatment. If you compare them to Pac-Man objectively, Pac-Man has far more reason to be included than they do. He's one of the biggest icons in video games, very popular and has a strong history (as does Namco) alongside Nintendo in its first third-party games. You're redefining what the phrase "special treatment" means to give credence to your argument.

 

[FalKoopa]

Your version of the special treatment interpretation has no logical basis. Mine does. Because the #1 rule of Smash is that the characters must be Nintendo characters. Anyone else is special treatment. Why are you guys trying to deny this? It's common knowledge.

Eh, your post gives off a lot of "I'm right, you're wrong" vibe.

Although you do have a point, about some of the reasons being flawed (the other big 3 are in, for example).

I'm personally against Pac-Man's inclusion as he hasn't done anything notable since his arcade days, and I don't find what he does to be terribly interesting.

Still, he does fulfill the criteria for a good 3rd party inclusion, being iconic and legendary, minus a mad amount of requests (which Sonic and Mega Man had). While Sakurai may deny Namco getting any special treatment, their involvement in the game might give him that extra push he needs to become a playable character.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Your version of the special treatment interpretation has no logical basis.

Except it does which is why everyone but you and Cliffjumper pretty much believes that interpretation.

Mine does. Because the #1 rule of Smash is that the characters must be Nintendo characters. Anyone else is special treatment. Why are you guys trying to deny this? It's common knowledge

Because you've assigned "Special Treatment" as being a third party and thus believe Pac-Man not only unlikely but downright impossible which seems preemptive at best. Yes; Third Parties are special and follow different rules to the others. Snake is "Special Treatment"; he got in mostly because of a friendship. Sonic and Megaman got in due to large fanbases and being legendary icons that are heavily associated with some aspect of Nintendo.

Namco not getting special treatment is widely believed to be they won't be getting special treatment OVER the other third parties; I.E. If we get Pac-Man, I wouldn't then expect to see Ms. Pac-Man as a playable, or Lloyd Irving or Klonoa or Nightmare just because Namco worked on the game.

Yes, I like Pac-Man, but it's not my bias talking on this one.
Even the people who don't care at all about Pac-Man have been arguing with you on this one;

I don't even necessarily want Pacman, I'm just not going to be delusional and deny his inclusion by saying he doesn't qualify due to "no special treatment" or "He's not on the same level as Sonic, Snake or Megaman," which clearly he is.

Dude I don't even WANT Pac-Man in that much.
I just think that so many people are biased against a well deserved character and it's wrong.

Pac-Man, I care about as much as Mega Man (which is to say, not very much), but I'd be lying if I said Pac-Man wasn't enough of a legendary gaming icon to warrant a guest appearance in Smash.

Of course time will tell whether you are correct or not.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm personally against Pac-Man's inclusion as he hasn't done anything notable since his arcade days, and I don't find what he does to be terribly interesting.

Pac-Man may not have done anything notable since his arcade days, but he has certainly been in a lot of video games, does that count?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pac-Man_video_games

 

[AEMehr]

MODERATOR DOUBLE POST??
REPORTED!!

Yes, I like Pac-Man, but it's not my bias talking on this one.
Even the people who don't care at all about Pac-Man have been arguing with you on this one;

I'm not even big on Pac-Man either, but I am open to the idea.